Educate me (please!)

So swmbo wants a dlsr for Christmas. I know a little bit about cameras, but not as much as I would like. If any of you gents (or ladies!) could help me out, I would deeply appreciate it. I'm getting tired of wading hip-deep through the mire of lengthy reviews and biased opinions, and I was hoping I could find some straight answers here.

Here's where I stand:
-She took some photography classes in college and owns a nice 35mm print camera (not sure what make/model. i can find out.), so the whole "you'll never use all those features; buy a nice point and shoot instead" argument that I've been seeing online is already null and void.

-I've been reading about having the auto-focusing motors mounted in the body vs in the lens. From what I can tell, having the motors mounted in the body is better, and orders of magnitude more expensive.

-I would like to find one that has a built in flash, but also the ability to use an aftermarket flash someday.

-She likes taking still life, candid, nature, landscape, and the occasional action shots.

-She has already stated she wants a N i k o n, but doesn't care what model.

-I hope to have about $600 to play with.

Thoughts? Opinions? Best place to buy? Anything will help! I hope I've provided enough information. Any questions, please ask. I will try to find answers.

bradyarz said:

-I've been reading about having the auto-focusing motors mounted in the body vs in the lens. From what I can tell, having the motors mounted in the body is better, and orders of magnitude more expensive.

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This is a N!kon only thing, but the basic idea is that if you have an auto-focus motor in the camera body, it is compatible with all of the AF lenses that N!kon ever made. If you don't have the motor in the body, you can still use the older lenses, but they won't have AF. The question here is about the lenses on her film camera. If they are gelded lenses, then you don't need the motor in the body.

bradyarz said:

-I would like to find one that has a built in flash, but also the ability to use an aftermarket flash someday.

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All the N!kon dslrs that you will be looking at have a built in flash and a hot shoe, so I wouldn't worry about it.

bradyarz said:

-She likes taking still life, candid, nature, landscape, and the occasional action shots.

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So, basically, everything.

bradyarz said:

-She has already stated she wants a N i k o n, but doesn't care what model.

-I hope to have about $600 to play with.

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Looks like you are buying a N!kon D5000, unless you need to be compatible with older autofocus lenses, in which case you going to have to save up more money and get a N!kon D90.

bradyarz said:

Thoughts? Opinions? Best place to buy? Anything will help! I hope I've provided enough information. Any questions, please ask. I will try to find answers.

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If I were in your position, I would be getting something like a D90 (with AF-motor) because then I would be able to get older used prime lenses as gifts later. (Like the 24/2.8 AF-D or the 50/1.4 AF-D)

Rei said:

This i I would be getting something like a D90 (with AF-motor) because then I would be able to get older used prime lenses as gifts later. (Like the 24/2.8 AF-D or the 50/1.4 AF-D)

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I believe that N i K O n are replacing the D90 so you might get a decent price. You might be able to buy a complete package; camera body, lens, flash, bag. I recommend you get the 18 - 200 VR lens. This covers wide angle to reasonable zoom. The inbuilt vibration reduction means shooting in lower light without a tripod becomes possible. The VR means that camera shake, which becomes noticeable at low shutter speed or at extended zoom, is not a problem. There are two basic approaches to achieve this; one is to house the VR process in the lens, the other to house it in the body of the camera. N I K O N house it in the lens. This makes the camera body cheaper - I thought this was what you were referring to in your post, not the focusing motor. The 18 -200 is a good all round lens; prime lenses make good gifts as she develops her interests further e.g. a prime 18 mm lens for landscape.

I would be aware there is a hybrid beast out there - the prosumer range. It has the advantage of point and shoot with some of the control of SLR but does not come with the ability to change lenses. SWMBO will be mighty disappointed with one of those!

Rei said:

This is a N!kon only thing, but the basic idea is that if you have an auto-focus motor in the camera body, it is compatible with all of the AF lenses that N!kon ever made. If you don't have the motor in the body, you can still use the older lenses, but they won't have AF. The question here is about the lenses on her film camera. If they are gelded lenses, then you don't need the motor in the body.

All the N!kon dslrs that you will be looking at have a built in flash and a hot shoe, so I wouldn't worry about it.

So, basically, everything.

Looks like you are buying a N!kon D5000, unless you need to be compatible with older autofocus lenses, in which case you going to have to save up more money and get a N!kon D90.

If I were in your position, I would be getting something like a D90 (with AF-motor) because then I would be able to get older used prime lenses as gifts later. (Like the 24/2.8 AF-D or the 50/1.4 AF-D)

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+1 on the D5000 and D90...although I must say that not all of N I K O N DSLRs have built in flash. The D3 lines (D3, D3X or D3S) don't have built in flash, but those are $5,000-$8,000 cameras...outside the OP's range

thanks for the info, gents! that give me more info to mull over. (that's a good thing. )

i'm going to try to find out what brand her older lenses are. her print camera is an olympus - would those lenses still fit a n i k o n body? are there adapters for that sort of thing? i found a lens here: http://www.srb-griturn.com/m42-lenses-on-n i k o n-201-p.asp. (remove the spaces from the camera name to follow the link) any personal experience?

I would also try to find a D90. It's a really nice camera. A D5000 would be my 2nd choice, as the D7000 is new and expensive (replacment for the D90). They will fit all of your criteria...

They do make adapters for fitting different manufacturers lenses on bodies. They can range from a cheap piece of metal to an expensive ring with electronics built in for the AF. Price can depend on what you get.

That link doesn't work for me even after I take out the spaces...

ok, i'm hearing these numbers thrown around, and i've managed to form a sort of hierarchy in my head thus far, but...


what's up with n i k o n's naming system? i would expect a normal manufacturer to approach it in normal numeric fashion: D40, D50, ... , D90, ... , D3000, D3100, ... , D5000, etc.

however, i'm having a hard time following which models are better than others, and it seems the model number is not the obvious place to look.

bradyarz said:

ok, i'm hearing these numbers thrown around, and i've managed to form a sort of hierarchy in my head thus far, but...


what's up with n i k o n's naming system? i would expect a normal manufacturer to approach it in normal numeric fashion: D40, D50, ... , D90, ... , D3000, D3100, ... , D5000, etc.

however, i'm having a hard time following which models are better than others, and it seems the model number is not the obvious place to look.

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The "consumer" n!kon was the D50.
D50 was replaced by the D40, then the D40x, then the D60, then the D3000, then the D3100.

Next up on the food chain (prosumer) was the D70, which was replaced by the D70s, which was replaced by the D80, which was replaced by the D90, which was replaced by the D5000.

Then you have the "Pro-crop" which was the D100, which was replaced by the D200, then the D300, then the D300s, then the D7000.

Then there is the lower priced FX model, which is the D700, and hopefully, that gets video soon and becomes the D700s or something to make it more like the 5DII in price and feature set.

Then the pro line is the D3, Then D3x, then D3s.

It is confusing because they just changed the naming system so that they could drop features and price from the prosumer models without people complaining. (Like canon did with the 50D to 60D refresh, which pissed a bunch of people off, but no one cared that the D5000 was replacing the D90, funny that.) They could also drop the price on the pro-crop without getting a bunch of the current inventory of bodies stuck on the shelves.

Rei said:

The "consumer" n!kon was the D50.
D50 was replaced by the D40, then the D40x, then the D60, then the D3000, then the D3100.

Next up on the food chain (prosumer) was the D70, which was replaced by the D70s, which was replaced by the D80, which was replaced by the D90, which was replaced by the D5000.

Then you have the "Pro-crop" which was the D100, which was replaced by the D200, then the D300, then the D300s, then the D7000.

Then there is the lower priced FX model, which is the D700, and hopefully, that gets video soon and becomes the D700s or something to make it more like the 5DII in price and feature set.

Then the pro line is the D3, Then D3x, then D3s.

It is confusing because they just changed the naming system so that they could drop features and price from the prosumer models without people complaining. (Like canon did with the 50D to 60D refresh, which pissed a bunch of people off, but no one cared that the D5000 was replacing the D90, funny that.) They could also drop the price on the pro-crop without getting a bunch of the current inventory of bodies stuck on the shelves.

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wow, that's even worse than i thought! thanks for the info though.

A radical thought I know but why not ask her exactly which model camera she wants? She's obviously got some idea about what she's doing so I'm willing to bet she's got a few ideas about what she wants.

Something that hasn't come up but is worth mentioning - the digital darkroom. A decent computer running Photoshop or similar will do wonders in photo editing. Therefore buying a second hand N i K o N D70 (for example) may not be a bad idea. My DSLR (D80) is two years old and looking at new releases the main new toys seem to be the ability to make videos and to use Live View (use the LCD screen as a viewfinder). I don't need either of those. Equally don't buy into the whole 6, 8, 10, 12 megapixel arms race. 6 MP will be more than adequate unless she's planning to cover one wall with a picture!

Try some specialist camera shops for second hand gear. Also visit Ken Rockwell's website - he's got some good advice here http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm

RF1963 said:

A radical thought I know but why not ask her exactly which model camera she wants? She's obviously got some idea about what she's doing so I'm willing to bet she's got a few ideas about what she wants.

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you raise some good points. unfortunately, she doesn't know/care which model it is. i'm the household tech nerd, so it's up to me to find the best bang for my buck.

i have an old photoshop install disc somewhere, but i think it's photoshop 7, so it's dated several years. recently i've been playing with GIMP, which as far as i can tell, does the same sort of stuff, but for free. can anyone debate me on that point?

bradyarz said:

i have an old photoshop install disc somewhere, but i think it's photoshop 7, so it's dated several years. recently i've been playing with GIMP, which as far as i can tell, does the same sort of stuff, but for free. can anyone debate me on that point?

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Debate? Nah. Inform? Sure.

You mention PS7, which can only mean Photoshop Elements 7. Elements is their "lite" version of photoshop. It'll do more than most people will ever use. They are currently up to PSE 8, so you're not too far off. It's pretty reasonably priced, and if you've got a license for a previous version you can upgrade for less money.

Their full version is called Photoshop CS5, CS5 being the most current. CS4 and lower are all older versions. Gimp has more in common with this than Elements, it's just in a more difficult to use package. CS5 is what pros and advanced amateurs would use. As with Elements you can upgrade at a lower cost, even from Elements to CS5.

Roobaix said:

Debate? Nah. Inform? Sure.

You mention PS7, which can only mean Photoshop Elements 7. Elements is their "lite" version of photoshop. It'll do more than most people will ever use. They are currently up to PSE 8, so you're not too far off. It's pretty reasonably priced, and if you've got a license for a previous version you can upgrade for less money.

Their full version is called Photoshop CS5, CS5 being the most current. CS4 and lower are all older versions. Gimp has more in common with this than Elements, it's just in a more difficult to use package. CS5 is what pros and advanced amateurs would use. As with Elements you can upgrade at a lower cost, even from Elements to CS5.

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i'm not familiar with elements... afaik, this is photoshop 7, as in prior to any of the cs designations (where the first cs was essentially ps8)

at least, that's what i thought... i could be terribly misinformed.

N i k o n make great cameras, and the ones I've used were great.
However, the CCD sensor makes them more expensive to produce, and when I was shopping around, the C a n o n alternative was about £200 less. Maybe a 500d would be good, or the older 450d for a little less.
Also, second hand prosumer cameras of that make will fall into your category at some level, although it really depends on what ebay is up to at the time.

Buy a Pentax.

(Who said that? )

bradyarz said:

i'm not familiar with elements... afaik, this is photoshop 7, as in prior to any of the cs designations (where the first cs was essentially ps8)

at least, that's what i thought... i could be terribly misinformed.

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Nope...you're 100% correct. My mistake!

So to actually answer your question, Photoshop 8 (or CS) came out in 2003...so 7 is at least that old. Gimp has gone through numerous updates and all kinds of tweaks. The interface might be a little more difficult to use, but I'd be willing to bet that it can do everything that your version of PS can do and more.

i thought i would post my final decision here for posterity's sake.

i ended up choosing a d5000 that came with a 18-55mm and 55-200mm lens. the 55-200mm lens is not the vr model, but the kit with both lenses was only $50 more than the kit with just the 18-55mm. i figured that was worth it.

bradyarz said:

i thought i would post my final decision here for posterity's sake.

i ended up choosing a d5000 that came with a 18-55mm and 55-200mm lens. the 55-200mm lens is not the vr model, but the kit with both lenses was only $50 more than the kit with just the 18-55mm. i figured that was worth it.

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Fantastic choice. I have the exact same setup. I really enjoy it and I get great shots from it, although its not the highest end it's capabilities are beyond my skill set.

Congrats and enjoy the camera, I know you will!

Good choice. I've used Nikons in my work for years. I'm sure she'll find many years of use for it. BTW, why can't Nikon be typed?

rickboone1 said:

Good choice. I've used N<A HREF="http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Banned_Filtered_Vendor">*Filtered Vendor*</A>s in my work for years. I'm sure she'll find many years of use for it. BTW, why can't N<A HREF="http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Banned_Filtered_Vendor">*Filtered Vendor*</A> be typed?

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because of the vendor's name that appears after the N. the filter picks up on a sequence of letters, regardless of whether they're typed in their own word or not.