Euro vs Japanese kitchen knives- a primer

[ken123]

There are also Westerrn Debas. These Japanese knives are a very heavy version of a gyuto. Heavier construction than the European Chef knives. I find it quite handy for American / European cuisines.

We should also consider the wide range of Chinese cleavers and the Japanese versions of just a few of these styles of cleavers available. From paper thin cleavers to thick beasts capable of breaking large bones with ease.

And, most significantly, we should also add American knives to this discussion. There are a number of superb American knifemakers, spanning a wide range of knife shapes, steels, etc - overlapping all of the other styles previously mentioned, with various degrees of 'belly', thinness, etc.

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Ken

[NCStateFan12]

My mother had an awful experience with Global knives so next knife set I buy will probably be German. Very hard to pick between Wusthof and Henckels

[Alacrity59]

This begs the question . . . what was the awful experience?

[NCStateFan12]

She found them to lose their edge very quickly and required a lot more frequent sharpening than past knivies. She swears would always hand wash them and always store them in the stand or block it came with. Maybe she just got a bad batch of knives?

[lister]

She found them to lose their edge very quickly and required a lot more frequent sharpening than past knivies. She swears would always hand wash them and always store them in the stand or block it came with. Maybe she just got a bad batch of knives?

Most unusual in my experience with Globals. I don't religiously sharpen mine but they hold a very keen edge for a long period and usually just need a quick clean up in between uses. How were they being sharpened?

[NCStateFan12]

I believe it was a 1k/4k combo. 4k to touch it up and 1k when it got really bad.

[peterrdean]

I use Global knives (although I have a 270mm Gustaf Emil Ern that I bought in 1973), and I have found that the Global knives hold their edge well. They are always hand washed and used on an end grain chopping board. My first Global went for 2 years without resharpening. I now have a collection of about 20 Global knives. As someone said earlier you get more choice with Japanese knives.
I use a Global ceramic 'steel' for a quick touch up, and a DMT diamond hone for anything more serious, although I have recently discovered the Swiss Istor sharpener which does a marvellous job.
By the way I noticed that some people said that japanese knives only have a single bevel. That's not true of the Global knives. Of the 20 Global knives I have only 3 have a single bevel. The bread knife, the tomato knife, (which are both serrated ) and the G11 Yanagi Sashimi which is flat on one side and beveled on the other. According to their website they are made from CROMOVA 18 high carbon stainless steel and have edges that are razor sharp. To obtain such sharp edges Global knives are factory sharpened at an angle between 10 and 15 degrees.
Peter

[ouch]

I think Globals are VG-10, a good all around steel that's great for cutlery.

[little Big feather]

Got my 3.5",6"& 8" SHUN Classic knives today!! They are beautiful and SHARP !

[WickedSwde]

I think Global is one of the most overpriced knifes you can get. And there are lots of fakes out on the market.
Deba is what they use for fish.

Here is a decent site that show and explain different Japanese knifes.
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/mi...ll/index.shtml

[The M]

I have some Mercer knives due to I am in school to be a chef and there the german style knives. German style or shall I say western style knives are sharpened at around 20 to 22 degrees where as knives like shun knives are sharpened at 16 degrees. However in school pretty much everone there does not know how in the world to properly sharpen a knive ( we have some whetstones)so everyone i know my class freinds included messed up there knives angle.( I honed my knive occasionaly and I never needed to sharpen mine although it could use a good sharpening) Also now that i have done a event during school and seen some things I now understand why ceramic knives are so apealing. Think about it when im running aroung a ktchen doing about 5 things at once and trying to get food out in the correct time window I deffiently do not have time to sharped a knive. With a ceramic blade its good to go all the time provided you dont do crazy things to the blade.

[SliceOfLife]

I'd be most interested in usage techniques of a chef's knife vs. a gyuto.

I use a wustof 8" chefs and a Watanabe 7" Gyuto.

The Gyuto seems more suited to draw towards me with the heel in first, whereas the Chefs works better tip down and driving the knife from the heel. I do catch myself using the Gyuto in this manner here and there though out of habit (used the Wustof 10 years, the Watanabe 2).


Also, the OP's comment on steel shows a bit of bias. And his comment on Grind (since he's talking Gyuto's) is just wrong (Mine is 50/50 and no option was given for a biased grind).

[SliceOfLife]

My mother had an awful experience with Global knives so next knife set I buy will probably be German. Very hard to pick between Wusthof and Henckels

Go to a shop with both. Hold them in your hand. Really no other way to decide. Both are fine knives, but the balance is different. I found Wustof to suit me better.

[Rughi]

Why should a lefty get the assymetrical blade angles reversed?
Does an assymetrical edge pull to one side, such that it's important to have it pull inward towards your guiding knuckles (or vice versa)?

Roger

[SliceOfLife]

From someone who owns ONE asym blade which see's very little use, I believe the idea is that the lower angle on one side lets you make thinner slices on it? Someone correct me if I'm mistaken here. So using a right handed knife as a lefty would make your cuts tend to be thicker. Basically you're changing where the edge contacts along the food relative to where your guiding hand is placed.

Suppose I have a 3mm thick knife. 50/50 grind, cuts will be 1.5mm in from where my guiding hand is positioned. 90/10, it'll be 0.3mm in. 90/10 held backwards, it'd be 2.7mm in. Of course you can correct for this in everyday cutting (I'm not making slices of fish I need to see through regularly)... hence why my assym blade never really gets much use.

[ouch]

Congrats on 5K post, Ian.

As far as asymmetric grinds are concerned, these bevels are still pretty small, and as you continue to sharpen the knife it will eventually take on whatever profile you desire. As a lefty, I'm not bothered by the slight righthandedness of the asymmetric grinds. Single bevel knives are another story, but the bottom line is that lefty or righty, you'll still make cuts with both sides of the blade.

[Alacrity59]

Is a single bevel Japanese knife the same low angle as double beveled Japanese knives?

[Rughi]

...the bottom line is that lefty or righty, you'll still make cuts with both sides of the blade.

Thanks. I suspected it was more a perception than an impediment. When I was a child, I couldn't tie my shoes until second grade because all the righties in my family and school insisted I do a mirror image of the way righties do it - and they would get flummoxed trying to even demonstrate the mirrored way. Finally, someone just said "I do it this way and it works. Copy how I do it." I learned the righty way, it was easy, and no more being different just to complicate things.

Roger

[ouch]

Is a single bevel Japanese knife the same low angle as double beveled Japanese knives?

It's even lower.

[JBroida]

It's even lower.

for what its worth, that image shows incorrect sharpening. There is no back edge like that. It looks more like this:



you can find more info here if you are interested...
http://blog.japaneseknifeimports.com...dy-images.html