My first method shave. (several common issues)

**supershaver** · 03-25-2007, 01:09 AM

After changing to wet shaving with a DE and brush last year, I just upgraded to method shaving. I received all my Hydrolast products yesterday (cube, paste, activator, cutting balm, conditioner, Derby razors to replace my walmart personnas, I didn't get the tonic but I think I should have). Anyway, here is my first experience with my issues bolded. Please comment or advise if you feel like it.

The reason why I went to method shaving is because I wanted BBS every day. I couldn't get it consistently without butchering my face with the traditional DE and brush products, so this sounded good and sort of academic, so I thought I would try it.

First off, i watched all the youtube videos several times. I started to make my lather, and I don't think I was able to get it as thick as shown in the video. I couldn't lather my face so that it was completly covered with thick foam. So that's something I have to work on.

Then I tried doing the forms. First of all, is Q3 supposed to be the region of the neck that is below the chin but before the neckline (basically, from the jawline to the adam's apple)? I hope so, because that's what I assumed it to be. By the way, the videos don't show shaving this area too clearly, I wish it did. Also, I can't really tell what the arrows mean in Q3 and the video didn't really show it either. Since it's not 3D, it's hard to tell what the arrows are pointing at. One thing I have a question on: am I supposed to relather the brush for each pass (cube, activator, paste), or is the initial lather supposed to last the whole shave?

After doing the forms, I didn't really cut myself or anything, but my face felt a little raw after doing the 4 passes. I have a feeling this is because I'm pushing to hard while shaving and I need to train myself to have a lighter touch. Doing all these passes are going to be brutal if I can't be more gentle. This is why I wish I bought the tonic, I have a feeling it would help after the shaving along with the conditioner. I also think that my technique contributed to the rawness. I'm used to doing short strokes with the razor and I have a subconscious habit of doing each stroke 2 or 3 times. In the video, the guy did long strokes and only one. I think my brain is afraid of this, especially in the areas like under the chin and the chin itself. I have this fear of the blade getting caught and just pulling a chunk of skin off, but I have to get over this somehow. So, not only am I doing 4 passes, but I'm actually doing like 4x2 or 4x3 passes, which is a lot of scraping!

I've read that in method shaving, it's not recommended to go against the grain, but I honestly don't think I'm going to get BBS unless i do. Can't I do it safely after the 4 passes? I just don't see any other way of getting BBS. I really hope that once I get good at method shaving, i can go against the grain every day at some point or another during my shave. My chin area will never be smooth without it, I don't care how many passes I do.

What's the deal with skin stretching? In the video, I didn't see the guy doing skin stretching at all, but I find that the skin will bunch up in certain areas if I don't do it (like the chin or under the chin). Again, maybe this is because I'm pressing to hard. And I'm a pretty skinny guy, so it's not like I have flab on my skin. I mean, I'm much skinnier and younger than the video guy (no offense, i swear!) and I still find stretching helpful.

Going back to the forms, I don't get what's happening in Q3 or Q1 for that matter. In the first form for Q3, what is North-South? From the bottom of the chin to the back of the neck? And what happens in the next 2 forms? I don't get it. And as for Q1, what is happening in the 3rd form? Am I just shaving diagonally to the center-bottom of the chin?

In conclusion, the shave was okay, nothing great. I did feel as though the Derby blades are better than my previous walmart personnas. Also, I'm pretty sure that the hydrolast products feel better for shaving than the proraso and other creams I was using before. I hope it's just my beginner's technique that is preventing me from getting a great shave. I've been searching for the perfect shave for over a year now, I hope this is the way to go. I believe in method shaving because it's detailed and a lot of the explanations make sense in an academic way. Thanks for reading!

**Kyle** · 03-25-2007, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by supershaver

First off, i watched all the youtube videos several times. I started to make my lather, and I don't think I was able to get it as thick as shown in the video. I couldn't lather my face so that it was completly covered with thick foam. So that's something I have to work on.

The "mix" or lather in method shaving is not very thick but is very slick. It should be loose enough that it is almost sliding off of your face.

Then I tried doing the forms. First of all, is Q3 supposed to be the region of the neck that is below the chin but before the neckline (basically, from the jawline to the adam's apple)? I hope so, because that's what I assumed it to be. By the way, the videos don't show shaving this area too clearly, I wish it did.

Yes, Q3 is jawline to apple.

Also, I can't really tell what the arrows mean in Q3 and the video didn't really show it either. Since it's not 3D, it's hard to tell what the arrows are pointing at.

The passes should be N-S, Diagonal & Down from outside to midline, Diagonal and Up from outside to midline.

One thing I have a question on: am I supposed to relather the brush for each pass (cube, activator, paste), or is the initial lather supposed to last the whole shave?

While I'm not familiar with the activator (wasn't in existence when I toyed with method shaving) I do know that the paste was a one-time product. It is, however, recommended to hit the cube after every 2nd or 3rd pass.

After doing the forms, I didn't really cut myself or anything, but my face felt a little raw after doing the 4 passes. I have a feeling this is because I'm pushing to hard while shaving and I need to train myself to have a lighter touch. Doing all these passes are going to be brutal if I can't be more gentle. This is why I wish I bought the tonic, I have a feeling it would help after the shaving along with the conditioner. I also think that my technique contributed to the rawness.

Most likely the rawness is from too much pressure. The best results that I achieved from method shaving (or from any other type of wet shaving) came from ZERO pressure from me.

Also, the tonic isn't going to do anything special for razor burn. It is a pleasant addition but not at all necessary.

I'm used to doing short strokes with the razor and I have a subconscious habit of doing each stroke 2 or 3 times. In the video, the guy did long strokes and only one. I think my brain is afraid of this, especially in the areas like under the chin and the chin itself. I have this fear of the blade getting caught and just pulling a chunk of skin off, but I have to get over this somehow. So, not only am I doing 4 passes, but I'm actually doing like 4x2 or 4x3 passes, which is a lot of scraping!

For stroke length, you can take whatever length of stroke that is comfortable to you. As you have pointed out, however, mutliple strokes over areas that no longer have cream on them can irritate the skin in a hurry.

I've read that in method shaving, it's not recommended to go against the grain, but I honestly don't think I'm going to get BBS unless i do. Can't I do it safely after the 4 passes? I just don't see any other way of getting BBS. I really hope that once I get good at method shaving, i can go against the grain every day at some point or another during my shave. My chin area will never be smooth without it, I don't care how many passes I do.

While CAR doesn't recommend going against the grain, I believe this is a personal preference. Regardless of the method you use, if you have properly reduced your beard and used zero pressure throughout the shave, then you should be able to finish up with a zero pressure pass against the grain.

What's the deal with skin stretching? In the video, I didn't see the guy doing skin stretching at all, but I find that the skin will bunch up in certain areas if I don't do it (like the chin or under the chin). Again, maybe this is because I'm pressing to hard. And I'm a pretty skinny guy, so it's not like I have flab on my skin. I mean, I'm much skinnier and younger than the video guy (no offense, i swear!) and I still find stretching helpful.

Skin stretching is a topic (like most others) that has been debated greatly. I am not a skin stretcher but will occassionally be a skin holder. I will sometimes press a finger into my face to prevent the skin from moving during a stroke.

Going back to the forms, I don't get what's happening in Q3 or Q1 for that matter. In the first form for Q3, what is North-South? From the bottom of the chin to the back of the neck? And what happens in the next 2 forms? I don't get it. And as for Q1, what is happening in the 3rd form? Am I just shaving diagonally to the center-bottom of the chin?

For form 1, you should make a true N-S pass. For form 2, you should go diagonal and down toward the midline of the face. The exact angle that will work best for you is something that you will have to find through experimentation. The best angle for me is to go from the top of the ear to the chin. Form three is diagonal and up, and again, the exact angle will differ for each individual. The best angle for me is from the corner of my jaw to near nostril.

In conclusion, the shave was okay, nothing great. I did feel as though the Derby blades are better than my previous walmart personnas. Also, I'm pretty sure that the hydrolast products feel better for shaving than the proraso and other creams I was using before. I hope it's just my beginner's technique that is preventing me from getting a great shave. I've been searching for the perfect shave for over a year now, I hope this is the way to go. I believe in method shaving because it's detailed and a lot of the explanations make sense in an academic way. Thanks for reading!

Opinions on method shaving differ for every person who has tried it. My own personal views are that while it is a good system with good products, it is not any better than shaving with a quality cream. Where I believe method shaving to be great is the forms and the concept of reduction and no razor pressure. I follow these same concepts regardless of my product choice and get tremendous shaves with no irritation. As an example of my regular routine:
After thorough beard prep, I make two N-S passes (form 1). I then complete a diagonal and down pass (form 2). I have added in a horizontal pass from outside to the midline. Next is a diagonal and up pass (form 3). From this point I do a modified version of form 2 from the jaw down which includes j-hooks along the jawline and also go S-N over Q1. I then finish with a final pass that is form 2 from the jawline down and another S-N on Q1 (note: the upper lip never gets a S-N pass, only N-S, diagonals and horizontal).

Total, I perform 7 passes. Again, this is a ZERO pressure shave.

From the comments that you have made, I think your biggest issues are pressure and shaving over areas multiple times where you are taking "naked" strokes over latherless areas. Regardless of your product choices, these are techniques that need to be changed.

Best of luck to you. Keep us updated on your progress.

**supershaver** · 03-25-2007, 06:17 PM

Thanks Kyle for a very informative response. I will try this again tomorrow using your advice. Skin "holding"! That really helps me, I didn't think of it that way. I definitely like to hold the skin so it doesn't move, so I'll keep doing that.

The concept of zero pressure is something I don't understand. How is that possible? I've tried this many times, and it feels like if I don't apply any pressure, the razor head will just bounce around loosely as I pull it down. Don't I need to apply some pressure to make sure the blade keeps in contact with the skin? I'll keep working on this until I grasp it.

Thanks again, I'll update with the next shave.

**mantic** · 03-25-2007, 07:06 PM

Kyle pretty much nailed it but let me add a few more comments. Regarding the "Mix," you may also have too much water in your brush. You don't say what kind of brush you have but as you saw on the 2nd video, it can make a difference on how long it takes to make a decent mix. You'll want to start out by soaking the brush but then shaking much of the water out of it. The "Activator" product *can* make a difference, it'll help make a much "creamier" mix. Try this: Soak the brush but then shake out a fair amount of water. Give it a shot of "Activator" then start priming the brush with the cube. After the brush is fairly "soapy" give it another two or three shots of Activator and prime again with the cube. Add a dollop of Paste to the open breech, pour a cupped palm-full of *hot* water on top, close the breech and prime with the cube for just a few seconds, then start lathering your face.

Regarding "pressure," use enough pressure to hold the razor to your face but no more. Hold the bottom of the razor handle by the thumb and first two fingers; that'll force you to use just the weight of the razor's head as "pressure" on your skin. It'll take some time to get the hang of it.

I've found Method Shaving to work a bit better for me compared to traditional shaving in some respects. Unlike Kyle I can get by with the four forms plus one free-form pass and a little buffing. But it is a little like learning shaving all over again (just as you might've had to learn traditional shaving over modern goo-and-multi-blade-razor shaving).

BTW, I'm the guy on the video. No offense taken.

--Mark

**supershaver** · 03-25-2007, 08:51 PM

Mark! Thanks for the videos. Without them, I would have never gotten through the journals of method shaving (why method shaving is discussed as if it were a graduate thesis paper is a little odd).

I'll try generating the lather like you just described and see if it helps. I saw your video on the brushes; I have a Vulfix 2234 (I guess it's somewhat lightbulb shaped).

I think this no-pressure thing is going to be hard for me, but I'll keep practicing. I'll try holding it at the end, like you say. As long as the blade razor moves smoothly, it should be ok (again, that means I need a good lather/slag whatever you call it). OK, more on this later!

**supershaver** · 03-26-2007, 01:21 PM

Try #2

Well, I tried again today. It was better, but still not good enough. First off, my lather still wasn't as full as the videos...not even close. And I wish I could get it it more slippery so the razor slides better.

I did the 4 passes again. First of all, to the pros out there, how raw is my face supposed to feel? When I was washing with hot water after the 4th pass, parts of my face felt a little raw (like burning). I don't mind feeling a little raw, but what I'm worried about is the shave the next day. I'm sure tomorrow's shave might be a little less pleasent. I will post on that when it happens.

I used the cutting balm mixed with paste for some finishing touches. Now that is slippery! That really helped a lot with the finishing touches, whew! If only I could get my regular lather close to that slippery (do I need it that slippery?).

My conclusion thus far is this:
The key (for me) seems to be to keep the zero-pressure during the forms so that the face is minimally raw. After that, it will be easier to do one more pass against the grain in certain areas using the cutting balm.

I can't to try it tomorrow and see if I still get good (or better) results.

**mantic** · 03-26-2007, 02:21 PM

SS--

You're experiencing some very common "newbie" issues with Method shaving; hang in there, buddy.

A lot of it is a matter of practice: even with the benefit of having CAR work with me in person several times (I'm only about 100 miles away from Austin) it was still a couple months before I was comfortable enough with the process to start making the videos.

It was weeks before I could consistantly get the Mix the way I wanted. Its a bit finicky, though the Activator really helped me. Try using more Paste. Or you can try applying some Paste directly to your face with your fingers then using the primed brush over it.

BTW, if you liked Cutting Balm, try lather from the Cube ("slag") combined with Activator: it feels "lighter" going on but is slick as heck....

A raw face is also common for new Method shavers. I thought I was experienced enough with traditional shaving to go right into Method shaving with Feather blades. Wow, what a mistake...and what a bloody neck.

I backed down to Derby's and it really helped. I know you're already using Derby's, but my point is that Method shaving "mix" is less forgiving that traditional shave lather (IMHO).

--Mark

**supershaver** · 03-26-2007, 03:31 PM

Mark, regarding the raw face, is it because my technique is not good, or because my face isn't used to it? I ask for clarification, because I want to be careful that I'm not damaging my face or anything. Is it like callouses for guitar players, where if they play long enough, their fingers get used to it and it's a good thing? I think tomorrow will be the big test, shaving a day after a raw face.

One thing I never noticed shaving before, is how much stubble is actually still left. I don't know if it's because of these products or what, but I can tell that there's is still more to shave if I really want to. Before, after going with and against the grain, I felt like it was all done. Now, I'm rubbing my face all around (like in the video) and I feel like I have this super sensitivity about where I can shave more. It's pretty cool.

**Kyle** · 03-26-2007, 05:52 PM

Mark's answer to your questions regarding the mix and blade pressure are right on.

Hang in there, and you'll get the hang of it.

**mantic** · 03-26-2007, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by supershaver

Mark, regarding the raw face, is it because my technique is not good, or because my face isn't used to it?...One thing I never noticed shaving before, is how much stubble is actually still left. I don't know if it's because of these products or what, but I can tell that there's is still more to shave if I really want to....

More than likely your raw face is more related to the learning curve than your face "getting used to it" (though there definitely is an element of that). Method shaving mix, as you've discovered, is thinner than traditional lather. That makes technique even more important. The thinner mix allows a closer cut. The number I see batted around is that it can get about 10% more stubble than traditional lather.

--Mark

**supershaver** · 04-01-2007, 01:56 AM

Try #3-6

Well, I do believe I'm getting the hang of this! I was in Vegas all week, and I took my shaving gear with me. I gave myself about an hour each morning and method shaved in the luxurious Wynn hotel bathrooms. I think I pretty much have the hang of it. The rawness level of my face is gradually decreasing and I'm only getting cut when I'm careless.

The forms are getting easier and more effective. I'm getting through them smoothly and my face isn't getting raw because of it since I'm getting much better at the the zero pressure thing. Also, the slag I'm getting is pretty good, almost exactly like I see in the video, and the shaving is smooth so I know it's pretty good.

I do a pretty intense finishing touch phase where I use the cutting balm and paste to go against the grain, mostly around my chin and jawline areas. The last couple of shaves have been very, very nice doing this. I got cut in a couple of places, but one of the places was because I got cut there the day before and I didn't give it time to heal, and the other spots were cut because I bumbled the razor a little. I don't see what the debate is about going against the grain. I can't possible concieve of a way to get a close shave without going against the grain sometime during the routine. I need to call Charles Roberts and understand why he says to never go against the grain. I just don't see how to get a close shave otherwise.

I got my best shave ever in my life today, it's amazing. And it can still get better, that's the crazy part! I don't know if my shave today was so good because I didn't shave the day before, but I hope not. I hope it's because this method shaving really works and I'm getting better. It looks very promising.