Photo Analysis of Razor Designs

This explains why my Old Type requires a different approach. Thanks!

This is great and just what I was looking for. I have a razor on order from Bob's razor works and was undecided on a NEW long comb or the short comb. Since I prefer an aggressive razor I went with the long comb. I have read differing opinions on this, but with your post, with everything all laid out with pictures, angles, etc. this helps tremendously. Thank you.

Egad, I spend time away and to my amazement, still comments!

Thanks guys.

I have taken photos of additional razor types, promised to update this and been busy with other things.
Oh, and then there's the shaving brush drying data I collected over weeks.
And have been sitting on for nigh unto a year.
All I'd need to do is find time to tidy it up into a post.
Way behind.

However, glad to know this was helpful to someone.

- Bill

woodfluter said:

Egad, I spend time away and to my amazement, still comments!

Thanks guys.

I have taken photos of additional razor types, promised to update this and been busy with other things.
Oh, and then there's the shaving brush drying data I collected over weeks.
And have been sitting on for nigh unto a year.
All I'd need to do is find time to tidy it up into a post.
Way behind.

However, glad to know this was helpful to someone.

- Bill

Click to expand...

Shaving brush drying data? You da man! Very interested to see that.

-jim

Wow what an informative post. Good job as a matter of fact super job. That was Amazing with pictures marking degrees, Wow.

Thank you for alof the information. The photos with the geometry printed on them really helped define blade angle to me. I cannot wait to revise my technique tomorrow.

Great info helps me understand why my merkur and fatboy shave differently

Anyone else out there able to continue this? Sadly, I don't have any of the required equipment other than light and a razor.

Yes, I'm working on more pictures right now. The post I did a few days ago of the animated Fatboy was a testing bed .

I'm not sure what will show up first, but the following are on my list: Merkur 34C, Senator, 2011 R41, Fatboy, Slim and SA's at all settings, Merkur 1904, all of the Superspeeds, Wizamet Adjustable on all settings, Knack, G1000, 40's Aristocrat, Feather AS. I've got others to add to the pile as well, but that'll be enough for now . Edit: Also the 39C (Slant). That should be interesting.

The Fatboy animation I mentioned is now in the wiki on the Fatboy page under the Safety Razor Database area.

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_195_Adjustable_Fat_Boy

beengone said:

Anyone else out there able to continue this? Sadly, I don't have any of the required equipment other than light and a razor.

Click to expand...

Fantastic. Just watched that animation and it looks to me that adjusting that past about halfway makes no difference, assuming you're using the lowest angle possible. I can't stop it and put a straight edge across, but it looks like the guard would clear the face entirely about halfway down. This would allow for a steeper angle (more aggressive and probably irritating), but if held at the lowest angle would not matter at all. Am I correct? Maybe I just need to wait for the analysis.

Hopefully someone can pick up the 2-3 razors you don't have planned. That's a fantastic list you have going and we all appreciate it. maybe someone can send you a DE89/R89 so you'll have covered about everything.

Thanks!

jamesspo said:

Yes, I'm working on more pictures right now. The post I did a few days ago of the animated Fatboy was a testing bed .

I'm not sure what will show up first, but the following are on my list: Merkur 34C, Senator, 2011 R41, Fatboy, Slim and SA's at all settings, Merkur 1904, all of the Superspeeds, Wizamet Adjustable on all settings, Knack, G1000, 40's Aristocrat, Feather AS. I've got others to add to the pile as well, but that'll be enough for now . Edit: Also the 39C (Slant). That should be interesting.

The Fatboy animation I mentioned is now in the wiki on the Fatboy page under the Safety Razor Database area.

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_195_Adjustable_Fat_Boy

Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be great if there was a truly adjustable razor. I.e. you could vary the gap between the cap and the guard, and in addition adjust the angle and protrusion of the blade peeking out of that gap.
It would have to be an SE design, I think, but it would definitely be a one-design-fits-all approach.

beengone said:

Fantastic. Just watched that animation and it looks to me that adjusting that past about halfway makes no difference, assuming you're using the lowest angle possible. I can't stop it and put a straight edge across, but it looks like the guard would clear the face entirely about halfway down. This would allow for a steeper angle (more aggressive and probably irritating), but if held at the lowest angle would not matter at all. Am I correct? Maybe I just need to wait for the analysis.

Hopefully someone can pick up the 2-3 razors you don't have planned. That's a fantastic list you have going and we all appreciate it. maybe someone can send you a DE89/R89 so you'll have covered about everything.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll have lines and degree markings when I do the close-up stills. You're correct, at lower shave angles the adjustment basically doesn't do anything above the middle settings or so (other than maybe giving you a little better resistance to clogs with the bigger gap). The adjustables are really designed to be used in the traditional way with the cap and guard both touching your face, which means shaving at a steeper angles as you increase the setting. It will be interesting to see how steep that angle ends up being. That said, do keep in mind that the static angles marked are just sort of guidelines, as they correspond to the ranges you get without any pressure and without any skin flexing. In reality those things broaden the range of usable angles.

And yes, if someone has a razor they'd like to see a photo of, feel free to PM me and maybe I can borrow for a bit. I don't have the DE89/R89, or any of the modern adjustables. Bill (WoodFlute..the author of this thread may though). I'll try to get these done as soon as I can, but like most here, this is a hobby, so gotta balance with paying the bills

rajagra said:

Wouldn't it be great if there was a truly adjustable razor. I.e. you could vary the gap between the cap and the guard, and in addition adjust the angle and protrusion of the blade peeking out of that gap.
It would have to be an SE design, I think, but it would definitely be a one-design-fits-all approach.

Click to expand...

Yes, I very much agree... that would be really neat razor. The protrusion part (if you kept it DE) would be a challenge since the blade can't increase in width, so you'd need something that can retract the head and the guard, or some such. The dual gap adjustment I don't think would be too tough though.

Hi James -

Your animation looks great!

I agree that, if you maintain a specific angle of attack, there will be an adjustment point beyond which there won't be any perceptible change in performance or shaving experience. Where that setting is depends on how steeply you shave. I noticed long ago, with my Slim Adjustable, that 9 didn't really seem to be any different than 5. The way I shave now, I'd probably be hard pressed to see any difference between 1 and 9, but I'll have to give this a try and actually find out.

Wanted to point out one thing as you do your close-ups, which you may know already. As I recall, it was important to align the razor head and camera lens so that you're looking right down the edge. I other words, line of sight exactly parallel to the edge in question. If it was angled inward or outward a bit, the apparent blade exposure varied and would be misleading.

I adjusted that alignment with the camera slightly higher in elevation so I could see the out-of-focus extension of the edge receding in line with the closest part of the edge that's in focus, then lowered the camera so that it would be looking straight on at the end. Or tried to!

I'm looking forward to seeing your photos and analysis - had been hoping others would take this up.

The only adjustable I have is my dad's slim adjustable, twin to the one I began shaving with. So that's a field for others to explore.

- Bill

Thanks for the tips, Bill. I'll definitely pay close attention to alignment. In the animation the challenge was mostly frame to frame consistency, although I did sight down the blade edge with the center camera reticle and use that as a reference point. For the stills I'll spend a lot more time on making sure that alignment is as perfect as I can get it. I'm using a razor stand to hold the razor..which I initially thought would be a liability vs using a vise, or some other fixed method. But actually it's really helped with lining things up when doing the multiple shots of the same razor (adjustables). Translation in X, Y and Z are mostly eliminated, and the only real variable is rotation around the Y axis. I'm hoping to get some initial images out later this week.

woodfluter said:

Hi James -

Your animation looks great!

I agree that, if you maintain a specific angle of attack, there will be an adjustment point beyond which there won't be any perceptible change in performance or shaving experience. Where that setting is depends on how steeply you shave. I noticed long ago, with my Slim Adjustable, that 9 didn't really seem to be any different than 5. The way I shave now, I'd probably be hard pressed to see any difference between 1 and 9, but I'll have to give this a try and actually find out.

Wanted to point out one thing as you do your close-ups, which you may know already. As I recall, it was important to align the razor head and camera lens so that you're looking right down the edge. I other words, line of sight exactly parallel to the edge in question. If it was angled inward or outward a bit, the apparent blade exposure varied and would be misleading.

I adjusted that alignment with the camera slightly higher in elevation so I could see the out-of-focus extension of the edge receding in line with the closest part of the edge that's in focus, then lowered the camera so that it would be looking straight on at the end. Or tried to!

I'm looking forward to seeing your photos and analysis - had been hoping others would take this up.

The only adjustable I have is my dad's slim adjustable, twin to the one I began shaving with. So that's a field for others to explore.

- Bill

Click to expand...

sweeet pics.good info.thanks to the op and whoever revived this thread.

This IS an awesome thread!!

So in his eyes the New LC is more agressive, seems most feel it's just the opposite, hmmm...

What a lot of work you did! Thank you!

This is outstanding Bill,tangible examples of all the important factors.

I've always sensed there had to be something like micro-vibration damping to consider,hope to hear that discussed further later.

As for the Old Type OC not sure if I'm way off on this or not but when it's said that the Old has a small gap and narrow range of effective cutting angle I have to consider that there seems to be twice as much exposed cutting surface between the teeth as compared to the portion encompassed by each individual tooth.So isn't consideration of gap irrelevant for the portion of the cutting surface that's between the teeth ? For me that seems to be part of the magic of open comb razors and literally why it easier to trim around my goatee more accurately than with closed comb designs.

I'm thinking it's the portion of the blade's cutting surface that's situated in between the teeth that's doing most of the whisker whacking' which would correlate with the close smooth shaves I'm experiencing.

Razorx, I'm thinking the intended market for the Old Type design consisted of experienced straight razor users, mostly. Not exclusively because some men got shaved in barbershops, and less than daily. But in general, folks that were used to paying attention to angle and pressure. I think the OT works superbly with modern blades if you get the parameters right. And, sometimes, you have to make sure the blade is loaded symetrically...some makes fit snugly but others are less tight.

But probably not ideal for the uninitiated. My guess is that, after the Great War and all the razors they made/gave away to young men just starting out with shaving, when the original patents ran out and they were casting about for something different, they opted to make it less fussy. And when the New Improved proved to be excellent but somewhat fussy in it's own way, they made the NEW even easier to use. I think that's been the story ever since, leading up to pivoting cartridges. Less skill needed, less versatility, but almost foolproof by now. Just my guess.

About vibration and damping: It may play an unexplored role, but I have absolutely no idea about how to investigate that. My guesses on that score are based on gut feel while shaving with different razors, and looking at the designs. I'd think it would be much more important with DE razors, and especially modern, slightly thinner blades than with the SE razors, whose thicker blades seem to have remained about the same (talking about disposable SE blades, not the older wedge kind).

So about the comb: I've been supposing that the skin is resilient, but not to a degree that it would flex upward between the comb teeth. But honestly, I just don't know. Only a very close-up photo of skin and razor might, maybe show that. If you use the open comb types with a lower angle and the comb doesn't touch the skin as much, possibly not a factor at all. At higher angles, your guess is as good as mine!

Cheers,
- Bill