Remington vs Winchester vs Browning

[Bullwinkle]

2 3/4" is pretty much standard for about everything. 3" for larger stuff like Turkey's & Gooses. The BPS won't chamber anything larger. 2 3/4 come in endless load combo's pellet size, power, etc..

[gaseousclay]

today I stopped at Mills Fleet Farm to take a look at more guns and didn't have much luck. the guys working behind the counter didn't even know what I was talking about when I asked about the Remington 870 Wingmaster. one guy said, "the win-master? never heard of it." I told him it was the Remington Express' big brother. the other guy swore up and down about Remington but said he had never heard of Browning before which left me scratching my head. they were good about trying to help me, but sadly their lack of firearm knowledge left me disappointed. not surprising since it was a Mills Fleet Farm.

there was a Gander Mtn across the hiway so I figured i'd give it one last try - once again I was completely ignored. I don't even know why I bothered. I saw two salesmen helping a father and son - why it required two of them to assist a customer is a mystery to me.

looks like Cabela's will be next on my list of stores to visit. I hope it's worth it

[matt711]

Lots of really great advice in this thread, and you won't go wrong with most of it. Pump Actions Shotguns are a great place to start as the act of cycling the action tends to put you back on target after you fire a round. If you enjoy the skeet/trap shooting and decide to continue with it you may find yourself looking more and more at a double barrel, over and under style shotgun. They tend to be much more expensive than pumps. So my advice would be to start off with an inexpensive pump, and as far as that goes Mossberg is pretty hard to beat. They are reliable, readily available, and inexpensive.

If you intend to use your shotgun for hunting then you may never feel the urge to move up (in price anyway) to a double gun. In that case a more expensive and nicer to look at Remington or Browning would probably be a good choice. One factor to keep in mind is that the elements will do their best to turn your beautiful shotgun into a rusty, scratched up mess. No matter how careful you are you are doing to get a few nicks and dings when moving around in the woods. So when you look at that brand new shotgun on display in the store ask yourself if the "extra fancy wood" or "engraving" are worth the money on a hunting shotgun.

I hope your first trip to the range is as enjoyable as it can be. Ask and look around at what others are using. Most shooters will be more than happy to let you take a look at what they are using. Just remember the golden rule, the wepon is always loaded and you will be good to go.

Be safe,

Matt

[gaseousclay]

I'm feeling myself now starting to want a centerfire bolt-action rifle over a shotgun. I didn't think i'd become so engrossed in all of this but every time I go to a sporting goods store I can't help but admire the selection of firearms out there. I really like the Remington 700 and Winchester Model 70. I guess it wouldn't be a bad thing if I got a rifle before I got a shotgun, mainly because I could easily take the rifle to the shooting range and fire off a few rounds by myself. when I was at the pawnshop yesterday I came across a few used Browning pumps, Remington pumps, Winchester 30-30 lever action rifles and a bunch of others for around the $300-350 mark. saw a nice looking 20ga Winchester 1300 w/chokes for $350 and was thinking I should've picked it up. but damn, a rifle with a nice scope on it sounds good too

[garyg]

If I recall, you wanted it for hunting .. the question is what ? If birds it is a shotgun, deer can be shotgun or rifle, or smokepole, or handgun too .. What are the firearm laws where you want to hunt or use it? Here in the Great Lakes we have shotgun zone below Saginaw, Rifle above for da deer ..

[JamieW]

...DON'T let your friends talk you into try a 3in shell..

MA is a shotgun only state for deer. I've dropped a lot of deer with 3" shells (slug in the pipe, buckshot behind it) in my Mossberg 500...

[maxman]

A Remington 700 with a Leupold VX-II scope is a deadly combo.

[gaseousclay]

If I recall, you wanted it for hunting .. the question is what ? If birds it is a shotgun, deer can be shotgun or rifle, or smokepole, or handgun too .. What are the firearm laws where you want to hunt or use it? Here in the Great Lakes we have shotgun zone below Saginaw, Rifle above for da deer ..

I'd like to hunt a combo of water fowl and deer, hence the shotgun. but a high-powered rifle would be also be nice and specifically used for big game hunting, whether it be deer, elk, moose or whatever.

in Minnesota you can hunt deer with a shotgun or rifle, but we also have designated 'zones' for each weapon. I still don't know what caliber would be appropriate for me - i've been looking at 30-06, .270 and .308 calibers. I know ammo for .270's are way expensive so that'll be a factor in what I choose, however, i'm also looking for rifles that don't have too much recoil but also pack a punch and are all around good hunting rifles that can take anything down. I saw a few used Remington 700's and a couple Winchester Model 70's at the pawnshop, but i'm not sure what's considered a fair price for these rifles. I know several of you have suggested I get a .22 as my first gun to practice on but the truth is, I don't have an interest in a small caliber 'varmint gun' to practice with. i'd rather get a bigger caliber rifle and practice with that, as i'm sure there's a noticeable difference in recoil between a .22 and something like a 30-06.

[gaseousclay]

can anyone offer some advice on buying used rifles and/or shotguns? my local gun pawnshop has the rifle I want (Remington 700) in the $400-600 range but since it'll be my first gun purchase I don't know what questions to ask, let alone what to look for in a used rifle or shotgun. of course, there are the cosmetic signs of wear and tear that will catch my eye but what about internal mechanisms or potential faults? most of the nicer rifles and shotguns are kept behind the counter at the pawnshop, so i'm guessing at a glance the majority of them are in great condition. what about pricing? I know NIB Remington 700's can be had for $700-800, so is $400-600 a fair price for used? what about year of manufacture? will older models be worth more? less?

[garyg]

Unless you are expert or have a friend who is I would be leery of pawnshop guns. While most modern name brand firearms would probably turn out ok from the pawn, I don't think you would have any recourse at all if something was wrong. You would be better off buying from an established, non Big Box gun shop who would warrant that the gun was in safe operating condition at least.

As far as the caliber, that is one of the YMMV things, the 3 you named .270, 30-06, .308 are all similar in performance, very good general purpose big game rounds, but there are differences. I like the .270 myself, it shoots the flattest of those three. But the 30-06 is available in a wider variety of bullet weights for different types of hunting, while in the same weight weapon the .308 has less recoil than the other two (also less velocity in a similar round). The .270 ammunition does not cost appreciably more to buy than the other two, unless you are buying military surplus stuff, which precludes .270 I think.

[gaseousclay]

Unless you are expert or have a friend who is I would be leery of pawnshop guns. While most modern name brand firearms would probably turn out ok from the pawn, I don't think you would have any recourse at all if something was wrong. You would be better off buying from an established, non Big Box gun shop who would warrant that the gun was in safe operating condition at least.

normally I would agree, but this particular pawnshop is a known gun pawnshop that has been around for years. they have a pretty decent looking used selection of rifles and shotguns to boot. plus, I have a feeling that other stores would charge an inflated price for their used guns. I guess I could always ask the pawnshop if their guns are in good working condition

[gaseousclay]

well, after much research i've decided i'm going to buy myself the Winchester Model 70 Super Grade. my other choice was the Remington 700 CDL but I think that'll have to wait for another day. Now I just need to figure out which scope to buy -- Leupold or Nikon?

[knlgskr]

Good thread with good advice. When purchasing a firearm used seldom equates to abused and it will be new to you. Most firearms unless specialty i.e. target/competition probably have not been fired much so used can be a good buy. If concerned about a used firearm, ask if you can have a gunsmith examine it; if they won't, ask why and perhaps eliminate from consideration or take someone with you whose knowledge you trust and minor problems can equate to lower price. If you are sold a defective/unsafe firearm it can definitely be a problem for the seller; think Small Claims Court, etc.. Price especially for used firearms is what they want; what they will take may be different, negotiate. Ask if there is a discount for cash; if you don't ask, they won't say. Owners can always negotiate, sales personnel often cannot but there is someone who can; findum. If no discount, use a credit card and if you have a problem the credit card company will represent you and businesses don't want to get on their "bad" list. "Shopping around" is always a good idea especially nowadays; get your lowest price and ask other businesses if they can match or beat it or what they will give you in lieu of a lower price. Consider using your computer to shop and then visit those offering the best deal. Do the "Full Monty" package in your solicitation i.e. scope, case, sling, cleaning supplies, etc.; that can also get you discounts. Don't be afraid to say "NO"! It is your money and a customer lost is gone forever and don't be afraid to complain about how you are treated; a squeaking wheel gets the grease and businesses do care at the top. Be ye courteous always regardless of how you are treated; it is a valuable tool; "See Dick insult customer, see customer complain,leave, tell others about Dick; see sales decline, see Dick get fired in bad economic times and see store close; don't be a Dick." Think like Pawn Stars, American Pickers, read Chester Karrass. "Tis better to boast (if ye must) of how little rather than how much you paid; the former will get you respect, the latter contempt, fools and their money are soon parted." Consider if allowed by law, purchasing from an individual often can be your best buy. The above is applicable to any significant purchase. I don't like to see anyone overcharged, cheated, etc. including myself.

The firearms mentioned are all excellent; can't be much wrong when millions have been manufactured and sold. You can load a 12 ga. like a smaller ga. but not vice versa. "Ain't much you can't fix with a thousand dollars and a 30-06." A Mauser 98K, Lee Enfield Mark 4 both in .308 have served well and faithfully as have Remington, Savage, Sako, Winchester, Browning, and all the others over the years; may yours do likewise.

Thank you one and all, this has been a most enjoyable and educational thread. This organization never fails to reveal a plethora of information that is useful and factual on every subject I have seen.

[Snipersnest]

I might be a little late on this one, but before you buy anything, go to your local gun club and ask questions. Most members will let you try out what they're using to fam fire it. No one has mentioned it yet, but a Ruger M77V is a great rifle. That's what we used on our sniper team in .308 with a Leupold scope. You could shoot the balls off a gnat with that baby. They're reasonably priced and it's a quality rifle. I shot an elk with mine in Idaho. As far as a shotgun, a Remington 870 is a good gun. Well built and has twin bars on the slide which makes the action smooth. As far as the scope goes, I've known guys who'll spend big bucks on a rifle and but scrimp on the scope. Buy a quality scope, I prefer Leupold out of all the scopes I've used.

[SRock]

well, after much research i've decided i'm going to buy myself the Winchester Model 70 Super Grade. my other choice was the Remington 700 CDL but I think that'll have to wait for another day. Now I just need to figure out which scope to buy -- Leupold or N<A HREF="http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Banned_Filtered_Vendor">*Filtered Vendor*</A>?

Your research for a good scope will have mostly the same questions... What will you use it for primarily? What options will you actually use? If you aren't looking to spend a ton of money you have many options such as Bushnell. If you want fancy and a name you are right its hard to go wrong with a Leupold.

[WilliamIam]

IMO and those of my dad, who was a WWII paratrooper,
Browning, Winchester, and Remington are among the best firearm companies.

The info's a little out of date.

I've inherited my dad's rifles: a 1912 model Remington pump .22LR, an 1896 model lever-action .25-.35 Winchester, a mossberg 50's era (I think) semi-auto .22lr, and a .25 acp beretta jetfire 950.

The Winchester and Remington are much better quality, and more reliable than the mossberg is. It may be that they're made many years apart.
The .25-.35 is a great rifle, and ammo is terribly expensive at $2+ per shell. It is the most accurate and deadly thing I've ever fired.


Any of the brands you mentioned will give you fine rifles, but you need to use a rifle before you buy it. And you should use several before you decide on one.

The most important question is why are you buying a gun?

Happy Shaves

[Kione]

I know a license is necessary to hunt but what about to simply own a firearm? if I were to go to a gun shop could I just buy a shotgun or rifle or is there some sort of background check they would need to do? I know this is generally done for handguns and that you need to have a conceal and carry permit, but what about shotguns and rifles?

Speaking for the US only, and state laws vary so be sure to check things out.
To own a fire arm no licence is needed. To do anything with one is sometimes different.
As far as buying things go, for long guns, (any non-handgun) when you try and purchase one you, as mentioned before fill out form 4473 for the ATF and the retailer has to run a N.I.C.S. Background check (National Instant Criminal System) So long as you pass that, (No violent crime convictions etc.) then that should be it unless some other state law is in the way or something.

As far as Recommendations? I can't say much that hasn't been said. I prefer Browning shotguns but they cost a lot, Remington is a lovely maker too. Mossberg is excellent as far as bare bones. But you tend to pay for the cheapness in a harder kick and a bit less smoothness of operation, still an nice sturdy weapon though.

Rifles, I second the .22 Savage Idea. Than look around, suit what you are going to do with it to the type, for typical mid-range hunting you don't need high dollar stuff if you are comfortable with your weapon.

Biggest 2 things here First Safety, never get careless, it kills. Secondly, take the time to learn to shoot, get comfy with the basics and really learn your first gun. Shoot a lot and don't be afraid to ask advice or to have fun. If you know how to shoot you can compensate for everything else. As a Gunsmith (as soon as the atf allows me it'll be my job) I get a lotta folks wanting this mod or that to their rifle/shotgun. And honestly If you're a good shot then there is no need for a 2.5 trigger on your hunting rifle. 4,8, heck even 12 pound is fine so long as you take your time, and get comfortable shooting. A lot like DE shaveing I guess.

So get out there and have fun. Shooting is a blast.

[gaseousclay]

Any of the brands you mentioned will give you fine rifles, but you need to use a rifle before you buy it. And you should use several before you decide on one.

The most important question is why are you buying a gun?

Happy Shaves

the problem with this is that the only people I know with rifles are my in-laws and they're plenty busy. I do realize that fit is important but then again, if the rifle doesn't work out I can always turn around and sell it. I think the question I invariably ask myself is, what if neither the Remington 700 or the Winchester M70 'fit' me, then what? my in-laws have Remingtons and nothing else from what I know, so this leaves me very few options as far as trying new rifles go.

I'm buying a rifle because I want to learn to hunt and the idea of being in the great outdoors is appealing to me. it isn't because I want to kill something or because I feel it fills some masculine void in my life -- I genuinely want to learn to hunt.

[gaseousclay]

okay, I gotta question for you Remington experts out there. which is the better rifle, the Remington 700 BDL or CDL? what are the differences exactly? is it the finish of the stock?

[SRock]

okay, I gotta question for you Remington experts out there. which is the better rifle, the Remington 700 BDL or CDL? what are the differences exactly? is it the finish of the stock?

Aside from aesthetics I know the BDL is available in more calibers than the CDL.