I'm at a loss

I've been DE shaving for over a year now, and I'm still struggling to achieve a consistent, comfortable shave. I don't know what to do anymore. I always end my shave with irritation on my neck, including razor bumps, and occasionally razor burn or bumps on my face. I've tried many different things, and I've had a minimal number of satisfactory shaves after all this time. Where do I go from here?

Currently, I'm shaving with TOBS Jermyn Street shaving cream, using Merkur HD with Derby blades. In the past, I've tried Proraso, Proraso Sensitive Skin, Honey Bee Shea Butter shaving soaps, and Truefitt and Hill. I've tried shaving oil, brands including AoS, Em's Place, and plain jojoba oil. I've tried the Weishi razor and the Gillette Tech. (These razors don't even take off the layer of shaving cream on my face. I believe I end up pressing down to hard to remove the shaving cream and cause irritation.) I've tried a variety of razor blades for each razor, and inevitably found that the Derby blade in the HD yielded better results. I've tried being consistent with products to see if my shaves improve, but they rarely do.

Before I shave, I always shower and wash my face with Cetaphil Gentle Skin Cleanser (prescribed from dermatologist for acne). (By the way, I use a benzyl peroxide acne medication on my face every night. Could that be a factor in my troubles?) I also live in two different houses, spending equal time in each. However, one has soft water and the other doesn't. As to be expected, my shaves with the soft water are generally much more comfortable than with the hard water. When I lather, I typically face lather. From what I know, I'm pretty sure the lather I make is good, lubricating, and protective. I have a lot more difficulty accomplishing this with the hard water, but again, that's to be expected. I usually shave only WTG x2 (Or what I think is WTG) because if I go any farther I usually cause significantly more irritation. However, most of my hair growth is still very visible after these two passes. But I would take minimal to zero irritation over a closer shave any day. My after-shave is usually Cetaphil Mosturizing Lotion or Cetaphil DailyAdvance Ultra Hydrating Lotion (the one for sensitive skin, and again both prescribed by dermatologist).

I believe part of the problem is that after all this time, I still cannot figure out the direction of hair growth, particularly on my neck. On my face, I think I have figured it out. Rather than straight down, the growth tends to fall in the direction of the bottom corner of my jaw, next to my ear. On my neck, I have as much knowledge as I did when I started. In the places I do have a sense of the direction the hair grows, I cannot find a way to hold the razor that does not involve me contorting in impossible ways that permits me to make a gentle pass over the skin. Generally, the natural contours of my face obstructs me from making a clean pass without irritation or cuts. The growth goes every-which-way, often having defined lines in inconvenient places where the direction changes.

I don't know what to do. The only thing I can think of is to find some experienced barber (that gives shaves) to give me individual attention and advice. But there are none that I know of in my area. I'm thinking it may be time to give up, and do what my parents told me from the beginning: Can of goo and a cartridge razor. As far as I know, my father doesn't have these issues. But he doesn't have the ridiculously-sensitive skin that I have.

I just want to be able to remove the hair off my face without the redness or irritation, and do so in an efficient and effective manner.

Help?

It sounds like you are changing too many factors too often, and aren't able to establish a good technique.

If your razors aren't removing lather, your angle is off, and this is causing you to use more pressure, which only causes more irritation. Go slow, and keep a close eye on how the blade contacts the skin. Only let the weight of the razors head apply pressure.

Start using one razor, one blade, and one cream, and work on your technique with those until you get it right. I would also suggest only shaving at the house with soft water if you can to limit lathering troubles--getting the lather wrong messes everything else up, too. Try lathering in a bowl for a while, and feel the lather with your hands. They will let you know that lather is good and slick--your face can't always tell you that by looks of the lather alone.

Your best bet may be to give your face a rest for a while. Don't shave for a few days and let your face recover. Look and feel at how your hair grows, and the direction. Then, when you start shaving again, shave in one direction, say N-S, and try to notice where the blade catches or tugs a little more. This will help you find where your hair changes direction.

I would also recommend trying to shave every other day for now, and washing with the Cetaphil on the day you don't shave to try and limit irritation, just to see if that may be adding to it. I think it is the lather and poor technique you haven't been able to perfect yet.

Your troubles sound like they are being caused by changing a lot of different factors, and so you have to change how you shave every time, and just haven't had the chance to learn how to be consistent with angle, pressure, lather, etc. Start fresh, like you have never wet-shaved before, and take your time to be consistent. I think this will help you out a lot.

Good luck and don't give up!

Have you tried skipping the Cetaphil and BP for a bit? I wonder if you are over-exfoliating your skin by combining so many treatments with DE shaving? That could result in the sensitivity and irritation that you describe.

You might try showering after your shave. That works better for me, though I know I am in the minority.

Mapping your grain should be fairly easy if you can skip shaving for a few days. That break from shaving should also let your skin recover a bit.

Once you have your grain direction mapped out, you should be able to position the razor for just about any grain pattern. My one exception is that I dislike shaving from the center of my face out, so there are some spots where I go XTG only, in a different direction for each pass. Have you tried flipping it upside-down? Switching hands may help in some places, too.

You have probably already seen them, but if not then the videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59 may help with your technique. I am fond of reviewing the 10-minute shave (http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59#p/u/21/-qSIP6uQ3EI) when I feel my technique is slipping.

mblakele said:

Have you tried skipping the Cetaphil and BP for a bit? I wonder if you are over-exfoliating your skin by combining so many treatments with DE shaving? That could result in the sensitivity and irritation that you describe.

You might try showering after your shave. That works better for me, though I know I am in the minority.

Mapping your grain should be fairly easy if you can skip shaving for a few days. That break from shaving should also let your skin recover a bit.

Once you have your grain direction mapped out, you should be able to position the razor for just about any grain pattern. My one exception is that I dislike shaving from the center of my face out, so there are some spots where I go XTG only, in a different direction for each pass. Have you tried flipping it upside-down? Switching hands may help in some places, too.

You have probably already seen them, but if not then the videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59 may help with your technique. I am fond of reviewing the 10-minute shave (http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59#p/u/21/-qSIP6uQ3EI) when I feel my technique is slipping.

Click to expand...

This is very good advice! I feel sure that mapping your growth direction will go a long way towards solving your problems as this will allow you to shave only in the WTG direction which causes least irritation.
I like the idea of taking a regular day off from shaving as well- it sounds as if your skin might benefit greatly from that.
Good luck!

Apart from mblakele's good advice your story also sounds like wrong angle/too much pressure to me. When your angle is a bit off it might be very tempting to add a little pressure to get your whiskers off. To a certain level this works but irritation, especially with sensitive skin, will be the price to pay.

You might try to find the sweetspot of your razor by making very short strokes on the least sensitive parts of your face while playing with the angle you use. After a while you will be able to hear when you do it right.

And indeed try showering after the shave; everybody is different but with my skin showering/wet towels work counter-productive.

djh said:

This is very good advice! I feel sure that mapping your growth direction will go a long way towards solving your problems as this will allow you to shave only in the WTG direction which causes least irritation.
I like the idea of taking a regular day off from shaving as well- it sounds as if your skin might benefit greatly from that.
Good luck!

Click to expand...

The videos on youtube by mantic59 really are excellent. I'm a long time user of safety razors and found them to be a very useful tool for refining my technique.

As for beard growth, I have always had trouble when it comes to shaving on the neck. Either side of my chin, about halfway down my neck, I have a patch where the hair grows in a circular pattern. This proves troublesome when trying to judge the direction of growth as there are a few different directions of growth across my whole neck. Through trial and error, and a bit of help from matic59, I now complete the routine as described in his 10 minute shave routine ( [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qSIP6uQ3EI&playnext_from=TL&videos=u2uH5IoNmvU[/YOUTUBE].
First pass N-S, second pass S-N and the third (which depends on your growth direction) for me R-L. Any patches that are still stubbly, usually near the circular parts get a quick once over at the end.

I used to suffer the same problem as yourself as I too have sensitive skin. I still get minor irritation i'm if not careful though. I changed my blades recently and found this to be helpful. I was using Permasharp before but went to Derby and found them to be much better.

I would say, wait at least 2-3 days to really have a look at your hair and learn the direction.

I saw that you said you applied pressure with the Tech and Weishi, you shouldn't apply any pressure at all. The razor and the blade must do the work.

+1 to the above advices!

You've been given some really good advice here...finding a couple of days in your schedule to let your beard grow and learn the direction of your beard is key.

Another key factor, mentioned by our favorite Bounty Hunter is to minimize the number of variables you change each shave.

After you've mapped your hair growth....use one blade, one cream or soap, one brush and one aftershave for a few days. If...after this few days time you're still having issues then change a single variable (blade, cream or soap, aftershave, prep technique etc).

Eventually, you will nail down what the problem is and be back to good shaves!

I'm a big believer in the low variables technique....read here

I agree with everything said above but and I don't know much about face shaving but the one thing that rang alarm bells in my head was the use of acne treatments.
If you use acne creams and BP for longer than 6 months you really should consult a dermatologist after that time. It's not good for you skin to use then continually unless a doctor or dermatologist suggests it. They can weaken and thin the skin leading to easily irritable skin.

Have you ever tried doing then a month "on" and then a month "off" using something very natural and gentle and not for acne? It would give your skin a break.

Just my two cents.

The advice above is A+ on preventing the problem of razor burn, irritation, etc. Preparation, lather, no pressure and blade angle are vital.

I have hairs growing in every direction and very sensitive skin around my neck. So what I do is to dial down on my adjustable razor and make sure there is NO PRESSURE. When I hold my razor I use only three fingers lightly on the razor to make sure I am not using pressure.

I use the superlather technique but add a few drops of glycerin or KY personal lubricant oil to the lather to assure a smooth, irritation-free shave. See http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=156022&highlight=uberlather Since doing this I have found that my shaves are consistently better.

After I shave I soak my face in cold water and follow it with a splash of Thayers' Rose Petal witch hazel. Almost immediately I feel relief. After a few minutes I follow it up with a skin moisturizer if my skin is still irritated. GFT has some good products (Coral Skin Food and Extract of Lime Skin Food). I also use a moisturizer my wife uses. It contains Hyaluronic Acid which holds 1,000X its weight in water and is very soothing. The product I use is expensive but lasts a very long time. Otherwise, I use Neutrogena Men Triple Protect Face Lotion, SPF 20.

I've been struggling with a similar problem since I started wet shaving a few months ago. Like you, I tried multiple soaps, blades, and after shaves to no avail. I have a thick coarse beard, and even with a feather in my HD, getting a halfway acceptable shave required that I make four to five passes (plus touch ups), which is far too many on my sensitive neck.

It wasn't until I moved to a really aggressive razor (Slant Bar) that allowed me to decrease the total number of passes I need to get a halfway decent shave on my neck, that the problem started getting better. Of course this advice comes with a huge caveat, but it did work for me. Best of luck.

I'm usually pretty consistent. Again, all of those products have been used over the course of a year and a half. I'll continue to be consistent, though, probably with the HD and TOBS Jermyn St.

@Boba Fett
I can see how the blade angle with the other two razors is probably off. I'll keep that in mind.
A N-S to see where it tugs sounds like it might work. On my neck, I'm aware of the places it does not grow down, it's just finding whether the hair actually grows up, or at an angle, or with a swirl.

@mblakele
I'm not sure if it's a good idea to stop the BP. It is prescribed from my dermatologist, and she has me using it everyday. My acne has improved significantly, and I don't want to have a relapse.
I've also tried growing out the hair to map out my face. For whatever reason, I still can't figure it out.
Mantic is how I discovered DE shaving!

@djh
I regularly take a few days between shaves to let the irritation heal already.

If I shaved before my shower, what should I do for prep? On most days, I don't have the time to sit and keep a hot towel to my face. And if I should stop using the Cetaphil cleanser, what should I use as a pre-shave wash?


Thanks for advice. I'll try to slow down and improve my technique. I'm just a little impatient... It has been almost 18 months since I started.

Ruvane said:

If I shaved before my shower, what should I do for prep? On most days, I don't have the time to sit and keep a hot towel to my face. And if I should stop using the Cetaphil cleanser, what should I use as a pre-shave wash?

Click to expand...

I just splash some water on my face, then face-lather. Face-lathering takes 2-3 minutes, so that's fairly good prep right there, but it wouldn't hurt to let the lather sit for another few minutes. I've seen Topgumby recommend lathering up, then brushing the teeth, and then shaving. That seems like a good idea, since your stubble and skin would get a few minutes of soak time with the lather.

Beardo said:

It wasn't until I moved to a really aggressive razor (Slant Bar) that allowed me to decrease the total number of passes I need to get a halfway decent shave on my neck, that the problem started getting better.

Click to expand...

You do have a point here. Not that I would want to advice a slant right away but a too mild razor is the last one I want for a mild shave. There is no room for finding your personal angles with these and they always need a couple of passes extra for me. They also don't help much in getting your technique down (since they hardly leave room for experimenting with your angles); the razors' sweetspot is not automatically yours too.

Well, it's easy enough to determine whether the benzoyl peroxide and other facial care products are a factor in the irritation. Simply stop shaving for a little while. Do it for, say, a week or two. You can shave with a mild electric shaver or beard trimmer to avoid looking like a caveman during that time. If you still get skin irritation when you don't shave, then it's possible that the BP is causing it. If your skin is fine, then it's safe to say that the irritation is caused by shaving.

There's some advice that can be given and some things that simply need to be observed for you personally. It's helpful to know the direction of hair growth so you can use it as a guide to shave with or against the grain. But it's also important to shave in a way that works with the contours of your face. Try to observe, when you shave, how the razor contacts the skin. How does it feel? Does the razor tug on the hairs, does the skin feel raw after the razor has just finished moving over it? Look in the mirror and see how the blade passes over the area you just shaved. Was there a flat, smooth surface for the razor to shave over? If not, can you alter the direction or angle of the stroke so that the razor is shaving a flat surface? If not, can you pull or contort the skin in a way to provide a flatter surface (straight razor shavers pretty much have to pull the skin taut, but many DE users find it helpful as well).

Do these things when you're not still half-asleep and trying to rush out the door, when you have time to stop and observe. If the razor isn't removing the lather as you shave, then there's something wrong with the way the razor is contacting the face. If it's removing some of the lather and leaving some behind, it's possible that the razor is skipping, which could definitely be a source of irritation and cuts as well as leaving lots of stubble behind.

Ruvane said:

I've tried the Weishi razor and the Gillette Tech. (These razors don't even take off the layer of shaving cream on my face. I believe I end up pressing down to hard to remove the shaving cream and cause irritation.)

Click to expand...

This tells me you have a serious technique issue. Any razor blade is sharp enough to cut hair, all the razor does is hold the blade in place - if you're not even removing the lather on your strokes then you need to refocus on your angles.

Go West Young Man said:

This tells me you have a serious technique issue. Any razor blade is sharp enough to cut hair, all the razor does is hold the blade in place - if you're not even removing the lather on your strokes then you need to refocus on your angles.

Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this assessment. A razor blade will scape off the lather if the angle is correct. If you can't get this angle of shave down pat, you might to have take half step back and try a very basic regimen of with the grain passes (North to South) only or even *gasp* use a cartridge but stick with wet shave lathering. If that is the case, I would recommend a cartridge with 2 blades and a pivoting head for now, although it is with some reticence I suggest it as you seem dedicated to using a DE razor. If you are still getting problems, then your lather in not sufficient.

I agree with the angle problem, I have a very coarse beard and my tech shaves very well with no pressure. Also I haven't seen anyone mention the cotton ball technique to map beard growth. This really helped me on my neck. Next time you take a day or two off from shaving, take a cotton ball and pass it lightly over your neck. Where it catches that will be ATG so the opposite direction will be WTG.

Lots of excellent advice here. I have sensitive skin too, and used to have terrible acne. I think a tech should work well if you've got the right blade in it and are using the proper angle.

That said, you may want to try a 1950s or '60s regular flare tip SuperSpeed razor. It's not as mild as the Weishi/Tech, but it's not as aggressive as the Merkur. I tried two Merkurs during my first year of wet shaving, and they just don't work for me. Too aggressive or something. Failing that, go with a 2 blade cartridge razor for a while (Sensor Excel or similar).

Otherwise, I agree with using the blade you think is working best, one razor, one soap or cream, etc. I also agree with shaving only every other day for a while, if you can. If not, try two with the grain passes and stop there. You won't get bbs, but you'll likely cut down the irritation.

Try some alcohol-free witch hazel if you can find it. I put it in a little spray bottle, spray it on my hand, then put it on my face. Mantic talks about it in that video above. That's the only aftershave treatment I use, unless it's winter and I need some balm for extra moisturizing. Witch hazel will help heal your skin without drying it, and it actually helps with acne, too. Plus, it doesn't burn. You'll get used to its unique fragrance after a few days. I actually like it now.

I'm interested in hearing if anything works for you in the end, so keep us posted.

-Andy