Softening the beard???

Ok I have read through a ton of posts here and alot of people seem to agree about getting the beard soft makes sense right, Something soft should be easy to cut and something hard well hard to cut. But after reading the book on shaving made easy http://www.archive.org/details/shavingmadeeasyw0020th it got me thinking because in the book the author states that you do not want to soften the beard because it will make it harder to cut and cause more irritation. So what does happen to the hair when it has been preped for a shave? I maybe wrong but my understanding is the hair becomes softer and will increase in size after it has been preped for shaving. Now this is when the problems begin because if the hair is softer is it not more likely to bend when the razor comes across it and be cut length ways resulting in the hair being pulled as it is cut causing irritation to the skin. Also with the hair being slightly larger now because of the preping will this not make it harder to cut because the force of the blade is being spread over a larger area?
So what is there to back up these claims well the book is written with the help of barbers of the time 1905 or there abouts so there would be plenty of experience around at that time. Also there is my own experience of cutting things I know that a firm fresh tomato is easier to cut than an old soft one and its easier to cut things on there thinest side try hand slicing up a 5kg block of cheese on its widest edge you'll get tired very quickly. I know about very sharp blades I have worked with Japanese chefs for over 4 years and learned to sharpen sushi knives with soft and hard water and ceramic stones and mirror finishing blades with a nagura stone. I also know that a slicing action is more effective than just pressing the blade against what you want to cut.

So the question I ask is. What is there to back up the claim that softening your beard before a shave is a better than not softening it?

Too much thinking, not enough shaving.

What's your experience? I don't care what someone wrote in a book. What works? The razor is in your hand. You become the expert. Try different things and see what your results are.

My experience is that shaving without softening my beard yields a lousy shave.
Experience trumps theory, in my opinion.
YMMV.

Try both and you will see yourself but I can guarantee that a beard that wasn't prepared to be shaved, it will be rough!

If the hair is softer, it's easier to cut!

Try to cut a freshly baked cake, easy? Leave the cake there without wrapping for a few days, harder, more difficult?

DavyRay said:

Too much thinking, not enough shaving.

What's your experience? I don't care what someone wrote in a book. What works? The razor is in your hand. You become the expert. Try different things and see what your results are.

My experience is that shaving without softening my beard yields a lousy shave.
Experience trumps theory, in my opinion.
YMMV.

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I see you applied the YMMV get out clause in your post
Well I have over 20 years experience as a chef so I use knifes every day I do see patterns in what will cut easy and what will be tricky to cut. If you read the book which you can from the link provided an American publication I believe to boot what they say agrees with my experience of cutting things and in those days more people would have knife skills and feel because of the lack of supermarkets and fast food ect, your want a steak you would have cut if off the side of beef hanging in the pantry.
I did give it a go this morning where I just washed my face quickly and then brushed on my lather and shaved. I got a good shave out of it I was also not using new blades in my 11c.

But!! I do know what I like and if I'm paying a barber and he uses a hot towel I'm not going to complain because it's nice and I do like a warm lather when I shave so nothings going to change that. But what I'm not going to do is put extra effort into softening my beard so no more proraso pre shave cream but I will use it after a shave if needed.

I don't over prep my face.

Cold water - lather - strop - lather - shave. I get better results this way than when I used towels and whatever else.

Notice I said cold water

I haven't been using a straight for long, about a month. But it was the same with DE razors.

Luc said:

Try both and you will see yourself but I can guarantee that a beard that wasn't prepared to be shaved, it will be rough!

If the hair is softer, it's easier to cut!

Try to cut a freshly baked cake, easy? Leave the cake there without wrapping for a few days, harder, more difficult?

Click to expand...

AHHH the freshly baked cake problem!!!
The answer to that my friend 2 words Serrated Blade!!

Good try.
When I have had shaves with Turkish barbers it's a quick massage so the barber gets a feel for your hair growth and then its foam and shave and there are plenty people on here who will tell you what the barbers are like from the land of ARKO and Derby some of the best shaves you'll get.

vmank1q said:

I don't over prep my face.

Cold water - lather - strop - lather - shave. I get better results this way than when I used towels and whatever else.

Notice I said cold water

I haven't been using a straight for long, about a month. But it was the same with DE razors.

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You Straight users are a brave bunch Respect!
Is the cold water just to numb the pain

Sorry I'm on one tonight

No, I find it stops the bleeding much quicker

Had a cold shave today because of an article I found in another thread. It was better in 2 passes than the prior 3 or 4 at 3+ passes each. I had less stubble on the second pass than normal too. No need for lots of touch-up. I also used a Personna Red instead of Iridium or Feather. I also had no blemishes on my neck that occur when using hot water. Hair cuts level when its erect. It cuts jagged when soft and flexible.

http://artofmanliness.com/2010/03/24/cold-water-shaving/

That book is an interesting read.

He advises to use a hot towel after the shave.

Wash the face thoroughly to free it from the lather, and then apply a steaming hot towel, as hot as can be borne. The heat and moisture draw the blood to the face, open the pores, and set a healthful action of the skin. Next apply witch hazel, and finally give the face a thorough massage.

There is no other treatment so beneficial to the skin. With many persons the flow of blood to the face and scalp is very sluggish, because of enfeebled or slow heart action; and in consequence, the many small arteries and capillaries become clogged. Massage stimulates the circulation, and brings blood from the inner centers to the surface, filling the many minute capillaries just underneath the skin, thus producing a tonic effect, which gives skin renewed vigor and health.

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Since I'm interested in the science side of things, I'll try to stick to that.

Big.Dave said:

Ok I have read through a ton of posts here and alot of people seem to agree about getting the beard soft makes sense right

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It seems to be accepted wisdom. It also seems to be quoted as fact a lot. While I haven't been able to track down a proper scientific study about this, there appears to be several sources for this information, so it seems unlikely that this hasn't been verified. The closest I've actually seen is pictures that show soaked hair that's wider by 15%.

Big.Dave said:

Something soft should be easy to cut and something hard well hard to cut. But after reading the book on shaving made easy http://www.archive.org/details/shavingmadeeasyw0020th it got me thinking because in the book the author states that you do not want to soften the beard because it will make it harder to cut and cause more irritation.

Click to expand...

It depends on the configuration. A tomato has a tough skin and a soft inside. The softer the inside, the more likely it will give under the pressure required to cut apart the skin. Hair is somewhat similar. A related point is whether the inside, outer layer, or both get softer when wet.

Big.Dave said:

So what does happen to the hair when it has been preped for a shave?

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Given all the assumptions, and lack of verifiable proof, that's still a valid question.

Since skin is made of roughly the same stuff as hair, whatever you do to your facial hair will probably also happen to your skin. This might have some bearing on why different people prefer different types of prep and products.

Big.Dave said:

I maybe wrong but my understanding is the hair becomes softer and will increase in size after it has been preped for shaving. Now this is when the problems begin because if the hair is softer is it not more likely to bend when the razor comes across it and be cut length ways resulting in the hair being pulled as it is cut causing irritation to the skin. Also with the hair being slightly larger now because of the preping will this not make it harder to cut because the force of the blade is being spread over a larger area?

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The blade is now dealing with less material to cut through. Looking at it from the other side, there's less blade per quantity of material which is just like having a sharper blade. How 'bout a third way... There's more blade length to cut the same quantity of material as before. Of course, it's possible that when wet, hair actually becomes more difficult to cut. As for cutting on a diagonal, it seems more likely that you'd be able to keep the blade flatter with softer material--whichever that is.

Big.Dave said:

So what is there to back up these claims well the book is written with the help of barbers of the time 1905 or there abouts so there would be plenty of experience around at that time.

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Or anything done since. I'd like to see something more tangible than oblique references to some supposed facts.

Big.Dave said:

Also there is my own experience of cutting things I know that a firm fresh tomato is easier to cut than an old soft one and its easier to cut things on there thinest side try hand slicing up a 5kg block of cheese on its widest edge you'll get tired very quickly. I know about very sharp blades I have worked with Japanese chefs for over 4 years and learned to sharpen sushi knives with soft and hard water and ceramic stones and mirror finishing blades with a nagura stone. I also know that a slicing action is more effective than just pressing the blade against what you want to cut.

Click to expand...

No comment on your experience, since I'm trying to stick to the verified science.

Big.Dave said:

So the question I ask is. What is there to back up the claim that softening your beard before a shave is a better than not softening it?

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That's a loaded question with a lot of assumptions. Do some products soften hair and others harder it? What happens to your skin? Even if it's softer... yada yada... You already made all those good points and more.

This is about the fourth time this book has come up on these boards in about a month.

I don't know the answer.

I do know that many people get good shaves with cool or cold water/lather.

In my mind, the problem with overprepping is not what happens to the hairs, but what happens to the facial skin. I don't think you want to get your facial skin either overly soft or overly hydrated (in other words, edematous or bloated). This can lead to irritation from the blade.

kingfisher said:

This is about the fourth time this book has come up on these boards in about a month.

I don't know the answer.

I do know that many people get good shaves with cool or cold water/lather.

In my mind, the problem with overprepping is not what happens to the hairs, but what happens to the facial skin. I don't think you want to get your facial skin either overly soft or overly hydrated (in other words, edematous or bloated). This can lead to irritation from the blade.

Click to expand...

Off the science, back to opinion (which knows more anyway)...

I have that problem with my skin getting wet and soft easier than my hair. One thing that seems to help make the hair easier to shave (softer and wetter?) is using so-called glycerin or melt & pour soaps. The only problem is it doesn't help my face at all, so I pass and use tallow soaps, which makes my face feel better. I think it's that fat is less soluble than pure glycerin, so it doesn't moisten as much. For me, that works particularly well. But I can certainly understand the lure of those other soaps for people whose skin doesn't get soggy as quickly.

I found this article helpful.

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2009/03/10/exploring-the-science-of-shaving/

Seems to me that softer skin and hair would hinder staying flat as they bend and ride under the leeding edge of the blade. The stubble under my jaw is flat and feels nice. When I use heat the stubble is sharp and irritates my neck.

A sharp blade is going to cut hair no matter what, that's not the question. Think of knife going smoothly through warm butter and then bouncing around on the surface of a cold stick of butter. The second way may make nice sharp cuts through the hairs, but that bouncing and jolting of the blade is what chunks up your skin, causing irritation and cuts.

Go West Young Man said:

A sharp blade is going to cut hair no matter what, that's not the question. Think of knife going smoothly through warm butter and then bouncing around on the surface of a cold stick of butter. The second way may make nice sharp cuts through the hairs, but that bouncing and jolting of the blade is what chunks up your skin, causing irritation and cuts.

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My face is telling me different. You also forgot the part where your skin swells and gets bloated with water with the heat and then retracts when it cools down to expose the sharp stubble left behind from the bending. Butter is a bad analogy. Cooler water is like cutting finer, drier grass with the height set lower on the lawn mower. Thicker and more hydrated grass with the height set high on the mower doesnt really get it done, unless you like 4 pass (irritating) shaves.

Almost forgot, softer cuts easier right?

kingfisher said:

This is about the fourth time this book has come up on these boards in about a month.

I don't know the answer.

I do know that many people get good shaves with cool or cold water/lather.

In my mind, the problem with overprepping is not what happens to the hairs, but what happens to the facial skin. I don't think you want to get your facial skin either overly soft or overly hydrated (in other words, edematous or bloated). This can lead to irritation from the blade.

Click to expand...

I think you could be on to some thing there. When a barber gives you a shave he will gently pull the skin to make the hairs stand up so they are easy to cut so softening of the skin might be another reason to ease up on the pre shave preperation.

Beard hair can be surprisingly tough. This is why many blades have coatings such as platinum and titanium. These coatings help harden the blade edge, which promotes blade longevity and cutting effectiveness (as well as smoothness). Ostensibly, softening the beard helps the process of shaving. In addition, many of the beard softening approaches also assist in conditioning the skin to be more resistant to nicks and cuts.