Market or Demand

**OldSaw** · 03-07-2007, 08:05 PM

With the multitude of high-tech cartridges being shoved in our faces by Madison Avenue compared to the BILLIONS of DE blades sold with little fanfare world-wide, I can't help but be amazed at the power of great ad copy in an affluent society. Even poor people in the USA refuse to quit smoking and feel they "need" things like cable TV when they can't even afford rent.

By shear numbers I would think that demand (world-wide) is for plain and simple DE blades. So why all the R&D and marketing of bigger, better, pricier cartridges? Because we keep thinking this new one will be the do-all and end-all of blades. What will it take for the TV watching, idol fascinated public to finally realize that the hype is just hype and your shave won't be any better using the Megabucks cartridge complete with fifth wheel and 24 hour 1-800-Waaah! tech support.

I can hardly stand it. The shaving aisle at the grocery store has 20 yards of space dedicated to cartridges, and if you look really hard, and don't go too fast, you might be able to find a pack of Persona store label DE blades. If you are really fortunate you might get a choice of Wilkinson DE's for $3.49 for a five pack.

Oh! and lets not forget the lack of shaving soaps and creams that are never in any of the stores I shop at. The real key to a superior shave, regardless of the blade type, is great lather, lather that rinses out rather than clogging the blades. By keeping us addicted to cans of goo, like a heroin addict who needs a score just to survive, they have the power to control the formulas to make sure they only work with the next great offering in blade cartridge technology.

Why is it that so few have left the lemmings in search of true shaving bliss? Do we just not care that instead of getting sheared we are getting fleeced? Will it take another depression before the general public finally says, "ENOUGH! We just want a decent shave without having to sacrifice college for our children to get it."?

I would really like to have a half dozen choices of DE blades, some decent soap and a few creams & ASB's at a local store. I wouldn't even mind if I have to go to the department store and get it from the Estée Lauder and Elizabeth Arden kiosks.

Are we, the shaving geek public, the only ones who care? I guess I am partly to blame. I don't mind sharing the good news about how Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead so that all who believe in him will be saved from eternal damnation, (I'm not kidding here guys, so please do not make jokes about this part), but to talk about shaving with the other guys in the shop is just out of my comfort zone.

So gentleman, what do you think? Are we doomed to a mail order existence? Or will we one day be able to hold our heads high, walk in to the local pharmacy, and say with a loud voice, "I'd like a pack of IP's", and not be embarrassed or asked to leave before they call the police?

**htownmmm** · 03-07-2007, 09:35 PM

Just the fact that Merkur has come out with a new razor design is a step in the right direction.

When it comes to creams and soaps, I think I will always support those vendors who took the time and trouble to improve our shave experience. But like you, it would be nice to have the option to purchase our necessities in a regular store.

Marty

**ratcheer** · 03-07-2007, 09:35 PM

I don't know. That is a lot to digest.

Tim

**Juaquin** · 03-07-2007, 11:33 PM

I agree wholeheartedly. The key is making the public aware. All I knew about DE's prior to switching over was that they used them a long time ago and it involved a real blade. No one is taught to think a DE could be a real shaving implement, it's more of an antique and curiosity to them. I think it also has to do with everyone having to have the latest and greatest - what sounds cooler, five blades or your grandfather's razor? It's unfortunate that we've been taught like this.

I'm interested to know why exactly Gillette chose to move over to cartridges? What flaw in the DE were they trying to fix? Because they definitely didn't fix anything that I can see...

**navy_shave** · 03-08-2007, 02:01 AM

DE Shavers :the Few. . .the Proud. . .the Smoothest!

Be all you can be: Go DE !

DE shaving: it's not just an adventure, it's an addiction !

I don't know about you, but I kinda like being a part of an elite group.

**Wayne D** · 03-08-2007, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Juaquin

I'm interested to know why exactly Gillette chose to move over to cartridges? What flaw in the DE were they trying to fix? Because they definitely didn't fix anything that I can see...

it was supposedly safer to use cartridge razors than to try and take a 'live' blade out of a DE and Gillete have always sold their razors on the safety and perfect shave aspect.

**mjsorkin** · 03-08-2007, 02:58 AM

I think most of our group are hobbyists, who enjoy buying and using high end luxury goods. Maybe the razors and blades have utilitarian roots, but many of us own more than one and some in double digits. There is some satisfaction in knowing that one COULD save money over the long run with traditional shaving even if we wind up spending more. I don't think many of us here save money on shaving in the long run.

Also FWIW the newer razors do have some advantages over the traditional styles. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the traditional razors, but I have to put that out there. The big question in my mind is not whether the 5 blade razors have an advantage over the DE, but whether the 5 blade have much of an advantage over the 2blade carts.

As for traditional wetshaving products going more mainstream. We may have luck with some creams and AS products, but sadly never again with DE's or Blades.

-------Michael

**htownmmm** · 03-08-2007, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Juaquin

I'm interested to know why exactly Gillette chose to move over to cartridges? What flaw in the DE were they trying to fix? Because they definitely didn't fix anything that I can see...

They were out to fix their bottom line- and have done so extremely well.

Marty

**ead** · 03-08-2007, 07:28 AM

Well
Once I felt that no body understand me and so on, when it comes to DE and STR8, but now I look at the mass people and just think how DUMB are they
The mass are just pitiful, they will pay so much $, being lead by Gillette and so on, and all of this for getting a less product

**netsurfr** · 03-08-2007, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by htownmmm

They were out to fix their bottom line- and have done so extremely well.

Marty

+1 on this sentiment!

**Doc4** · 03-08-2007, 08:33 AM

As hard as it is trying to find DE blades ... try finding a decent straight! Ah well, we must remember that the bog companies pay for shelf space in stores, so they can keep the little guy out!

I think we are stuck for the forseeable 'futur'

as an internet fringe group. I don't think there's any embarassment involved ... but if I were to go into the local store and ask for Trumper's Coconut, i'd certainly be met with blank stares and just-as-blank shelves! (Well maybe a bit of embarassment if I asked for Nancy Boy!)

Of course the big companies are making changes to make profits. But hey, my ADs aside, I have enough equipment now (including my hone on order) to last me a lifetime ... literally! All I absolutely need for shaving from here on out is soap and balm! (That's $130 out of Gilette's pocket every year until I die or they come up with a more expensive cartridge!)

**icemncmth** · 03-08-2007, 08:51 AM

I think what most people forget is ...a company will introduce "new" stuff so that we will "want" it because. They spend a lot of money telling us things that are old can't be any good. Take for example cars...newer is better..right?

Well there hasn't been that much change in the combustion engine in 50 years.
Yes we now have fuel injection..(been around for a long time) ...and all the safety stuff!..Must not forget that!...

But in the end if you buy a 2005 Honda Accord or a 2006 Honda Accord is there really that much difference...

To keep you "wanting" more they try to tell you that old is bad..

Now look at razors..If Gillette were still making DE razors how many of these would you need to buy?...I used a 47 SS this morning...

So really all they would sell you was blades and maybe soap...

Now if I convince you that the old DE isn't any good and come out with this new 5 blade razor and the next year a 5 blade with a blade on the back for under your nose...and the next one that vibrates...

What they end up doing is selling you a new shave all the time..Heck have you seen how much the 5 blade refills go for?...

This is about making you want something new and you wanting to spend money on it...

Gillette knows that you get a better shave with a DE....but do you think they would make more money selling just blades..

I was thinking about opening a store that would have all of the DE stuff and great soaps...etc...

But then I decided I couldn't compete with the guys who have just online stores..My overhead would be more so I would have to charge more...

I was thinking it would be cool to have this nice little shop..selling all sorts of products but in the end I couldn't justify doing it on paper...

So the big boys win again..

Merovian · 03-08-2007, 07:15 PM

Just to chime in on the retail space front (also my first post! Woo!) I've noticed that my two local tobacconists (I occasionally dabble in pipe smoking) carry a fairly decent assortment of straight razors, Merkur DEs, strops, brushes and soaps (and mugs, and travel pouches, and Col. Conk hones, and .. uh.. oh yeah, tobacco products).

That's two out of every two local tobacconists in my local area, or 100% market saturation in these venues.

So, find a local tobacconist.

**ouch** · 03-08-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Merovian

Just to chime in on the retail space front (also my first post! Woo!) I've noticed that my two local tobacconists (I occasionally dabble in pipe smoking) carry a fairly decent assortment of straight razors, Merkur DEs, strops, brushes and soaps (and mugs, and travel pouches, and Col. Conk hones, and .. uh.. oh yeah, tobacco products).

That's two out of every two local tobacconists in my local area, or 100% market saturation in these venues.

So, find a local tobacconist.

Welcome aboard, Merovian. You make a good point. I think that straight razors and pipe tobacco are similar in that they both harken back to a bygone era that a lot of disillusioned folks are trying to recapture. You'll find a lot of knowledge folks here that enjoy both of these pursuits, and many more.

**Gafer** · 03-08-2007, 07:37 PM

Two problems with DE shaving for the masses:

1) Learning curve. I've been at this for just 7 weeks and I'm telling you - you've got to want to do it! The learning curve is pretty steep. In contrast, any damn fool can shave with one of the new multi-blade cartridge razors and while they may not get a close shave they won't slice up their faces. I for one never knew a shave could be this close, this comfortable, this much fun. But getting here has been tough. I almost gave up several times. Most people aren't willing to spend the time.

2) MONEY! Gillette, Schick etc. cannot make BIG $ by selling you one DE razor that will last you the rest of you life and then a lifetime of blades at $0.13 each. Even if I change by blade every four days, in one year I still will have only spent about $12 on blades. I don't see anybody getting rich on that investment. By contrast, multi-blade cartridges last about a week and cost at least $2.50 each. That same years worth of blades costs $130. More than 10 times the cost and I'm sure a decent profit. This is the real bottom line. Money. It's all about the Money. The razor companies don't really care about the quality of your shaves.

**Juaquin** · 03-08-2007, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by htownmmm

They were out to fix their bottom line- and have done so extremely well.

Marty

Well I'm trying to figure out if they realized that they could hook people on expensive catridges and that's why they moved over, or if they were trying to fix something else then realized: "Hey, no one else can make our cartridges. We can charge a TON. SWEET!"

**OldSaw** · 03-08-2007, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by navy_shave

I don't know about you, but I kinda like being a part of an elite group.

That's what bow ties are for.

Originally Posted by mjsorkin

The big question in my mind is not whether the 5 blade razors have an advantage over the DE, but whether the 5 blade have much of an advantage over the 2blade carts.

I never cared for more than two. Back in the early 70's Mad magazine did a spoof on blade marketing hype, one was a 16 blade wrap around shaver.

Originally Posted by Merovian

Just to chime in on the retail space front (also my first post! Woo!) I've noticed that my two local tobacconists (I occasionally dabble in pipe smoking) carry a fairly decent assortment of straight razors, Merkur DEs, strops, brushes and soaps (and mugs, and travel pouches, and Col. Conk hones, and .. uh.. oh yeah, tobacco products).

That's two out of every two local tobacconists in my local area, or 100% market saturation in these venues.

So, find a local tobacconist.

Hi and welcome aboard. That's a great tip. I'll check it out. Since I quit smoking over 20 years ago I don't go into tobacco shops very often.

Originally Posted by Gafer

2) MONEY! Gillette, Schick etc. cannot make BIG $ by selling you one DE razor that will last you the rest of you life and then a lifetime of blades at $0.13 each. Even if I change by blade every four days, in one year I still will have only spent about $12 on blades. I don't see anybody getting rich on that investment. By contrast, multi-blade cartridges last about a week and cost at least $2.50 each. That same years worth of blades costs $130. More than 10 times the cost and I'm sure a decent profit. This is the real bottom line. Money. It's all about the Money. The razor companies don't really care about the quality of your shaves.

Yes, this is true and kind of what got me ranting. However, the money I save on cartridges I now spend on better creams. Gillette could easily sell everything shave related...Oh wait, I think they already do.

**navy_shave** · 03-09-2007, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by icemncmth

So the big boys win again..

Not always. Not completely. This group is living proof of that. And how many other people are fighting against modern crap the best way possible, with their dollars? DE shaving may be a small fringe movement, but combine it with those that search for high-quality items such as LPs, reliable used/classic cars, fountain pens, manual typewriters, home brewing, home schooling, alternatives to Microsoft, etc.--not to mention those that are voluntarily downsizing their lives, and you have a...bigger fringe movement.

In the grand scheme of things, we probably won't change the culture. But then again, in the 1970s the natural foods movement was on the fringe and look at it now. There's not a supermarket anywhere that doesn't have a "health food" section. Yeah, I know it's been watered down and perverted by the conglomerates, but legitimate whole foods stores are prospering. "All natural" has become a major buzz word AND big business.

What I'm getting at, is DE shaving et al, is probably not going to put the corporations out of business nor take the country by storm. That's not the point. The point is that we ARE depriving them of OUR little bit of business. We are using what little freedom is left to us to thumb our noses at the "big boys" and hitting them where it hurts--in their bottom line. Even though we may not even be a tiny blip on the corporate radar screen, so what? WE know we're fighting back. That's all that counts.

Actually, I don't give a crap about the corporations. I care about quality and so long as the corporations do not deliver it, I do not give them my business. So take heart, my friends. We protestors may not be legion, but we're enough for us.

As the philosopher said: "And dat's the name of dat tune." --Baretta

**ead** · 03-09-2007, 01:41 AM

I don't know about you
But I wish that more and more stores and compnies will take me and you as a consideration for a customer.
I want local stores to have creams,blades and so on
Don't you? and I think that if more people could see DE or STRAIGHT in their local shops, then more people will use this things.

**Juaquin** · 03-09-2007, 01:45 AM

We need to take all the old GEMs no one wants and send them out randomly like Gillette does with the Fusion - I've gotten TWO free ones sent to me. That's how they get you - once you're hooked on the relatively cheap razor, they'v got you with the cartridges.