This is amazing to me...

...yet so common over here in the UK:
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Mondeo/FuelEconomyAndCO2Emissions
What gives? Ford (and every other manufacturer) sell some great cars of a reasonable size that get far better mileage than just about anything you can buy in the US. Do they really think there's no US demand for a 50 mpg diesel car? Perhaps diesel is the way forward for now.

-Andy

andrew98 said:

...yet so common over here in the UK:
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Mondeo/FuelEconomyAndCO2Emissions
What gives? Ford (and every other manufacturer) sell some great cars of a reasonable size that get far better mileage than just about anything you can buy in the US. Do they really think there's no US demand for a 50 mpg diesel car? Perhaps diesel is the way forward for now.

-Andy

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That is a really decent looking car, with great economy, emissions, and features that are not usually available on US made cars. It is sad that Ford and others can't seem to figure out that if they brought these cars to the states that they would sell like hotcakes. I'd be happy to buy American if they were able to give me something with European styling and performance, but that simply seems off the table for Ford and GM. So I drive VW.

As for Diesel, it has never caught on with consumers here, and emissions have been an issue--but that is no longer the case. More people seem willing to consider one, and VW/BMW/Mercedes/Volvo make some great diesels (note: all Euro mfgs'). VW sells half of all diesels made in the EU, so if anyone can bring a diesel to the US it should be them. I'm personally hoping that as fuel prices trend upwards, more drivers adopt clean diesels, as they have similar performance to similar sized gasoline cars, have superior fuel economy, and are fairly quiet.

The mondeo is a nice one. I did however like the previous model better. A lot of those features are available on the new taurus and fusion. They will make there way to all the other models soon though. The new fiesta is a great little car. It is rated at 42 mpg that is just short of the (dreadful) prius.

Stubblefield said:

As for Diesel, it has never caught on with consumers here, and emissions have been an issue--but that is no longer the case.

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I believe diesel cars are not available in NY and certain other states due to emissions issues, which is actually something I'd be concerned with. Have they really solved the problem?

Also, are the newer diesel cars easier to start in cold weather than the older models? That was always a big disadvantage to diesel cars in the northern U.S.

Could be because Ford and GM have been successful in selling behemoth , gas guzzling trucks and SUV's to every soccer mom in America. I'm not without guilt as I own a large SUV but I won't be replacing it with another one when the time comes. I also somewhat minimize my environmental impact by riding my motorcycle to about 5 months a year, so I can sleep at night.

Remember the us/uk gallon difference. 50 mpg in the uk ain't 50 mpg in the us. Keep in mind that a gallon of diesel contains more energy than a gallon of gasoline. 40mpg from a diesel car isn't as impressive as 40mpg from a gasoline car.

Diesel emissions isn't a big problem anymore. Particle filters take away the big nasty particles that cause trouble on a regional basis - but it's not 100% perfect, as it lets through nasty small particles that affect people with breathing problems worse than a comparable gasoline engine.

Starting a diesel engine in cold weather isn't a problem at all. Keeping diesel from freezing is, and that's just a matter of logistics. (Mix the diesel right and it can handle very low temperatures.) At -22f or so it's a real problem for "normal" diesel. Starting the engine itself is comparable to a gasoline engine of the same displacement, and the battery has to be decent. Fitting a simple engine block heater is very simple, and a good solution for getting perfect reliability in cold climates.

Here in Norway, diesel is pretty popular, because diesel is taxed less, and diesel engines are favored by the taxation on new cars. Personally I can't stand the sound of a cold diesel engine, and I don't care much for it when it reaches operational temperatures either. ClackClackClackClackClack... Besides, gasoline cars simply more fun to drive.

Just look at the curves for a normal diesel engine and a normal gasoline engine, both GM:
GM 1.7CDTI 16v 100BHP:

Z18XE - 1.8 16v (125BHP)

For an avereage driver the diesel has more power where it usually operates. (Both with automatics and with sticks.) The low-end torque makes for a very comfortable driving experience.

Source with more info on these engines: http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/showthread.php?t=97974 http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/showthread.php?t=98092

My mom has the 1.7CDTI in her '10 Opel Astra Station Wagon. It touches 60mpg on longer trips. It stays around 45mpg with her daily driving to work+in town.
I got the 1.8 16v in my '02 Astra Coupe. Does around 40mpg with my driving. I push it slightly, but not excessively. Active driving on windy roads is fun.

Besides, gasoline cars simply more fun to drive

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Especially big block V8s with 4-barrel carbs!

I read somewhere that new regulations on the sulfur content of diesel fuel went into effect in the last year or two. The result has been that existing diesel engines using the newly formulated fuel are as close to zero emissions as you can come for a fuel burning engine.

What is the cost of diesel Vs. gas in Europe? At least were I am the cost fluctuates from diesel being 10 cents higher than gas to 60 cents or more higher per gallon.

I've never owned or even driven a diesel powered car before, but I am certainly not opposed to owning one.

begnish: zero emissions when it comes to particles that make a global impact, yes. But even the best filtered diesel engine will cause worse local pollution than any modern gasoline engine. It takes alot of diesel powered cars to make it a real problem, so it mostly matters where there's other air problems at the same time, like spiked tires making asphalt dust.

Here it fluctuates between 7.7$/gallon and 7$/gallon for gasoline and 7$/gallon to 6.5$/gallon for diesel.

Adjusted for consumer purchasing power, it's cheap for europe. In raw numbers we're almost as pricey as it gets.

andrew98 said:

...yet so common over here in the UK:
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Mondeo/FuelEconomyAndCO2Emissions
What gives? Ford (and every other manufacturer) sell some great cars of a reasonable size that get far better mileage than just about anything you can buy in the US. Do they really think there's no US demand for a 50 mpg diesel car? Perhaps diesel is the way forward for now.

-Andy

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There could be demand here for a car like this, but $25,000 - $30,000 is a lot to pay for a weak/slow car.

faster_than_u said:

The mondeo is a nice one. I did however like the previous model better. A lot of those features are available on the new taurus and fusion. They will make there way to all the other models soon though. The new fiesta is a great little car. It is rated at 42 mpg that is just short of the (dreadful) prius.

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The newest Fiesta is terrible. I drove through Wales in one a week ago. I like the previous, more boxy design better. It also had a bigger trunk. The older ones are great. You can even buy a diesel Fiesta and a diesel Focus here. I'm sorry, but my girlfriend's 2004 4 door Honda Civic we owned when we lived in the States got 40mpg on the highway, yet American manufacturers tout 30mpg as being fantastic in their commercials. They can make decent sized, fuel efficient cars. They just don't for some reason. I wonder what their agreement with the oil companies looks like.

-Andy

car prices for comparable cars are higher in the UK/Europe than here in the US.

Duckster said:

There could be demand here for a car like this, but $25,000 - $30,000 is a lot to pay for a weak/slow car.

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Duckster said:

There could be demand here for a car like this, but $25,000 - $30,000 is a lot to pay for a weak/slow car.

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No way it would be priced like that in the US. It would be around $20,000 to $25,000. Diesels aren't weak, especially if they have a turbo on them. They also produce tons more torque than petrol engines. How fast are you actually going to drive on public roads anyway? Regardless, I've driven some wicked diesels.

-Andy

For older consumers, they remember the bad old days of diesel cars in the 70's/80's when diesel cars were loud, slow and belched black smoke. The technology has moved on a lot in Europe but Americans are unaware of that - diesel cars are now much quieter, have good performance and are clean (comparable to gas/petrol engines).

For younger consumers here in the US, they have no real experience with diesel cars - since so few have been available in the past 20-30 years.

Car makers in the US have been focused on large gas-powered vehicles for the domestic market. Now that gas prices are higher and we have a poor economy, they're trying to change their lineups.

andrew98 said:

...yet so common over here in the UK:
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Mondeo/FuelEconomyAndCO2Emissions
What gives? Ford (and every other manufacturer) sell some great cars of a reasonable size that get far better mileage than just about anything you can buy in the US. Do they really think there's no US demand for a 50 mpg diesel car? Perhaps diesel is the way forward for now.

-Andy

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I have an American friend who has a new diesel VW, and it's great. I also think that all these diesel drivers in EU countries (where driving, road safety and auto racing is generally taken much more seriously than in the US) can't all be wrong.

-Andy

Obsessed said:

I believe diesel cars are not available in NY and certain other states due to emissions issues, which is actually something I'd be concerned with. Have they really solved the problem?

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I believe they have overcome that issue. CA, NY, VT and tow other states have the strictest emissions standards in the USA, and would not allow new diesels to be sold until they managed for sulfur content, among other things. The new slate of clean diesels do so, so these cars are once again available--at least in CA for sure.

Stubblefield said:

They have overcome that issue. CA has the strictest emissions standards in the USA, and would not allow new diesels to be sold until they managed for sulfur content, among other things. The new slate of clean diesels do so, so these cars are once again available.

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I agree. I ticked off a lot of "Eco-Warriors" by suggesting they go Diesel, citing mileage, cost, durability. I was branded a neanderthal.

Obsessed said:

I believe diesel cars are not available in NY and certain other states due to emissions issues, which is actually something I'd be concerned with. Have they really solved the problem?

Also, are the newer diesel cars easier to start in cold weather than the older models? That was always a big disadvantage to diesel cars in the northern U.S.

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diesels are indeed available in NY - I live in a household that has a diesel - an older Jetta TDI - started all winter (occasionally had to stick a lead light under the motor)....

there's a VW dealer a few miles from here & they seem to do very well with the new TDIs. I guess they're OK....

...I still want a '69 Boss 302 Mustang, however.

What's the power/torque on that car like? Cars in the US need to be powerful and zippy, even if they sacrifice a bit of fuel efficiency for it.