F/S Posts in Shopping vs Marketplace

[VintageBlades]

I have noticed recently that there have been a number of posts of items for sale (F/S) by members in the "Shopping" Forum of the Site rather than in the more traditional "Buy/Sell/Trade" Forum. While this may seem a trivial issue, as a member who is also a "vendor", I am constrained as to where I can place certain content within the Site. The only place where I can post items of a promotional nature is in the "Shopping" Forum. The "shelf life" of these posts is significantly limited by the addition of the F/S posts that constantly drive them further and further down and eventually off the first page. I recommend that the moderator clarify the policy concerning use of the “Shopping” Forum and if appropriate move these F/S posts to the proper forum.

[KenS]

I'm a newbie on this forum, but it sounds reasonable and logical to separate the commercial sellers from the casual sellers.
Ken.

[Antique Hoosier]

I think if you are a "Vendor" with a commercial site linking from this one you should only expect your shelf space if you are paying for it. I think if you are a wet shaving enthusiast who participates (KEY WORD Participates) in ongoing forum discusssions on the level of an enthusiast and is generally a respect member of this online community, you should be able to list an occasional item on the Buy/Sell/Trade area. I think if a member who doesn't actively participate in community forum discussions and whos sole reason for being a B&B member is to sell product, they should be placing their wares in the Shopping Forum.I have placed items in both forums but consider myself a Member who participates. I will not place further ads in the Shopping section becuase I am NOT a vendor with this site, have NEVER been a vendor who links to an outside site for sales, and WILL NOT be a vendor.

[AACJ]

This has been discussed in depth by the moderators. While most people that post in the buy/sell/trade topic are general, contributing members, there are some people that sell items for a profit, possibly even a second income. We have asked those we feel are "marketing" themselves and their products to post their items in the shopping forum as the items are purchased for the intent of reselling them at a profit, even if they are a contributing member. Some members have gone as far as adding their items for sale to their signature lines, we discourage this as well.

Most of the members that post in the buy/sell/trade topic are selling something they bought, thinking they would like it but ended up giving another member an oportunity to try it for themselves.

[Austin]

I have sold items on this site as well as shavemyface with the intent of helping members. I rarely make a profit on my sales. As I mentioned, my intent is not to make a profit. If you make a profit on a Toggle that's ok with me as long as you are not out to take advantage of members.

[Antique Hoosier]

The handful of items that I have sold have gone to members of this forum at a number less than what they would have brought in other markets. Profit is not a major motivation when it comes to being a part of any online community such as this one. I think the "Shopping Police Mods" have done an excellent job maintaining the fairness of the community. Have a super Sunday everyone!

[Tony Miller]

AAJC,

I just wanted to be clear on your statement:

<<< Some members have gone as far as adding their items for sale to their signature lines, we discourage this as well. >>>

Do you mean vendors like myself adding a signature line with a web address and business line like "strops, sets, etc...) ?

I rarely use the Shopping section here but do include my signature line on each post I make in the discussion forums. I value my visits here and want to play by the rules so please let me know if this is acceptable.

Thanks,
Tony

[Kyle]

While I am not the final word, Tony, it is my understanding/interp that what you have done is fine. If there were a problem with the format you've chosen, you would be privately contacted (as a gentleman should be) with a kind request to modify your link (we try to avoid the S.W.A.T. team mentality ).

We've tried to keep the guidelines for such things as simple as possible because we've found most vendor-members that do participate here to be unique from each other (some with actual stores, some without, and many other nuances) which prevents the application of a truly standardized/all-encompassing set of guidelines.

Ultimately, we wish for the Buy/Sell/Trade forum to not be an income generator. Repetitive sales of this nature belong in the Shopping Forum.

I hope that this helps to shed a bit of light on the subject.

[guenron]

Could it be there is a need for a clear(er) policy statement on that which constitutes fair use of the Shopping Forum? Perhaps one thread per week per vendor and only for special deals/sales?
I never really thought the Shopping Forum was to become an eBay-like venue, but then again what serves the community best? SInce Joel and Nick are presently footing the bill for bandwidth, etc. perhaps they need to make a difinitive statement of policy?

[perry]

Could it be there is a need for a clear(er) policy statement on that which constitutes fair use of the Shopping Forum? Perhaps one thread per week per vendor and only for special deals/sales?

When the ToS was updated a couple weeks ago, I thought it said just that. Things were laid out pretty clearly. Now, it looks like a lot of that has been removed....?

I look to the shopping forum for deals and steals and places to find them, and to the selling forum for individuals selling stuff. Seeing some for sale items in the selling forum kinda confused me.

[AACJ]

While I am not the final word, Tony, it is my understanding/interp that what you have done is fine. If there were a problem with the format you've chosen, you would be privately contacted (as a gentleman should be) with a kind request to modify your link (we try to avoid the S.W.A.T. team mentality ).

Ditto

Thanks Kyle

[Tony Miller]

AAJC and Kyle,

Thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to be sure I was following the rules. I try to use these forums just as I do SRP. My personal items go in "Buying. Selling, etc.." special deals, new items in my line go in "Shopping". If asked about my products in a normal thread I will answer questions and clear up any confusion but try not to "sell" my wares there.

This is a free service to all of us provided by other peoples hard earned dollars, and we need to respect whatever the requirements are.

Thanks guys,
Tony

[AACJ]

NO, Thank YOU Tony!

AAJC and Kyle,

Thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to be sure I was following the rules. I try to use these forums just as I do SRP. My personal items go in "Buying. Selling, etc.." special deals, new items in my line go in "Shopping". If asked about my products in a normal thread I will answer questions and clear up any confusion but try not to "sell" my wares there.

This is a free service to all of us provided by other peoples hard earned dollars, and we need to respect whatever the requirements are.

Thanks guys,
Tony

[Kyle]

Could it be there is a need for a clear(er) policy statement on that which constitutes fair use of the Shopping Forum? Perhaps one thread per week per vendor and only for special deals/sales?
I never really thought the Shopping Forum was to become an eBay-like venue, but then again what serves the community best? SInce Joel and Nick are presently footing the bill for bandwidth, etc. perhaps they need to make a difinitive statement of policy?

It is difficult to lay down an all encompassing, definitive statement of policy. Further, just when you think you've found such a policy, an oddball scenario pops up that doesn't really fall within the "letter of the law".

This board has experienced some pretty phenomenal growth in a fairly short period of time, and along with the enrichment that this provides, it brings along its fair share of new conflicts. We will undoubtedly find the answer to this issue and to any others that arise, but from time to time it will require patience from all parties involved.

[rtaylor61]

I'll chime in as a member vs. being a moderator. As a moderator, my first concern is that we keep this a family friendly site and that we protect our members. Now, we do have members who join just to sell items. We have members who join just to buy items. And this creates a fine line for those who are here to "keep the peace". As a member of MANY shaving forums, I've seen Tony Miller participate as a member. Mainly at SRP, but also at others. And I know where Tony draws the line. He errs to the cautious side of things. I hold Tony up as example of how a member/vendor should participate.

IMO, anyone who buys things to sell here can have two very different ideas for what he/she is doing. Maybe we have a member who joins and buys things to sell because he can buy them cheap and sell them cheap, with the intent of saving folks money. But, we also have members who join because they can buy cheap and reap a profit. This puts the moderators in a tough spot. When a member joins who has an ebay store or other website with which they retail, their initial participation is key. How they act, participate and hawk their wares puts the moderators on the spot to make a snap decision. It may not always be the right decision, but based on the available information, it is a decision made in the best interest of the mainstream members. If any vendor feels singled out, go back and review your history. From the viewpoint of what a moderator must decide. If you feel you have a case to make, the discuss it privately via pm with the moderator of the forum. He will present it to the moderators. Since the owners of this forum pay for it without advertising, we are all guests. Whether a vendor or not, this place is provided to you for free. Guidelines for the forum have to be reviewed as different situations develop.

In the end, this is a forum for having fun discussing shaving, and helping new guys learn the ropes. It is about sharing and having fun. The Selling forum is for members who have purchased excess items, or items that just don't work for them. Let's remember why this forum was created. And keep our participation in that spirit.

Randy

[Sue]

I removed my website URL and would like to continue to be a part of this forum. I exend my sincere apology if I have offended anyone by having my website on my signature line.
Sue M.

[rtaylor61]

Sue,

Keep your URL in your signature. There is no doubt, IMO, that you deserve to do so. Your products are great, and you abide by the rules. There is, IMO, no reason for you to make any changes.

Randy

[AACJ]

Sue,

Keep your URL in your signature. There is no doubt, IMO, that you deserve to do so. Your products are great, and you abide by the rules. There is, IMO, no reason for you to make any changes.

Randy

Ditto

[Sue]

Thank you, Sue

[Austin]

Sue, we love our vendors. Especially the ones that contribute to the shave experience. We are glad you are here.