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Thread: Finishing Stone for Stainless Steel/High Carbon

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    Default Finishing Stone for Stainless Steel/High Carbon

    I have a lot of stainless steel German razors and a lot of high carbon Japanese razors. What finishing stone will work well on both metals? Thanks.

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    I've found that a Takenoko 8K followed by a Naniwa 10K will put a nice edge on just about anything. In both cases, I create the "mud" and slowly rinse it off while honing.
    Henry

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    I am with the professor on this one, only I use 8k King an 10k SS.
    I have not had problems finishing on Asagi/ Thuringian too.

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    We have two votes for the Naniwa. I didn't like the Naniwa 12K but I probably didn't give it enough time before I went to something else.

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    I ended up getting a translucent arkansas stone for my Japanese carbon knife and my global. Although they don't seem to be very popular here it has done a great job on the knives so far.
    Mikael

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikromicke View Post
    I ended up getting a translucent arkansas stone for my Japanese carbon knife and my global. Although they don't seem to be very popular here it has done a great job on the knives so far.
    Once properly lapped, a translucent Arkansas is excellent at finishing just about anything. My issue is that they're too slow.

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    I'll put my hat in the ring for 1um lapping film. Works great on any kind of steel. I'll throw a sheet of it in with the DMT...
    One, two! One, two! and through and through...The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TstebinsB View Post
    We have two votes for the Naniwa. I didn't like the Naniwa 12K but I probably didn't give it enough time before I went to something else.
    FIIW, I don't like the other Naniwa's as much as I like the 10K. Never used the 12K though, just the 5K and the 8K (I think). Whichever it was, they certainly didn't measure up to the Takenoko.
    Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
    FIIW, I don't like the other Naniwa's as much as I like the 10K. Never used the 12K though, just the 5K and the 8K (I think). Whichever it was, they certainly didn't measure up to the Takenoko.
    Some guys at Knifeforums.com say that the Naniwa 10K is better than 12K. I found that out after I had bought the 12K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TstebinsB View Post
    Some guys at Knifeforums.com say that the Naniwa 10K is better than 12K. I found that out after I had bought the 12K.
    Indeed the 12k is not popular for knives they are finished on 10k usually.People that have tried 12k and 10k can't tell difference in performance for razors either. I think that the grit difference is not big enough to tell apart, but could be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
    I've found that a Takenoko 8K followed by a Naniwa 10K will put a nice edge on just about anything. In both cases, I create the "mud" and slowly rinse it off while honing.
    For reference, is your 10K a SS or Chosera?

    Do you create "mud" using a slurry stone? or is there some other method to make mud? Is "mud" just another way of saying "slurry"? I know I've seen the term "mud" used on some of the knife forums. I was hoping somebody could help me understand what that means and how to properly do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
    FIIW, I don't like the other Naniwa's as much as I like the 10K. Never used the 12K though, just the 5K and the 8K (I think). Whichever it was, they certainly didn't measure up to the Takenoko.
    I know the OP was WRT finishers, but do you have a good suggestion for something you like better than 5k Naniwa?

    Thanks!!!

    - Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrowen View Post
    For reference, is your 10K a SS or Chosera?

    Do you create "mud" using a slurry stone? or is there some other method to make mud? Is "mud" just another way of saying "slurry"? I know I've seen the term "mud" used on some of the knife forums. I was hoping somebody could help me understand what that means and how to properly do it.



    I know the OP was WRT finishers, but do you have a good suggestion for something you like better than 5k Naniwa?

    Thanks!!!

    - Jason
    I've only used the the Super Stones. Call me what you will, but for the prices Choseras demand I'll take a natural hone.

    By mud I essentially mean slurry. Right or wrong, the distinction in my mind is that mud is created on Japanese hones, slurries on western hones. While the distinction seems largely semantic, I prefer to distinguish between the two because they seem to me to function a little differently; similar substances with different purposes. One raises a slurry to expose more abrasive and enhance cutting speed. One creates a mud, which breaks down through use, to enhance polishing.

    Please bear in mind that the preceding paragraph has no basis in reality other than my observations!

    With both Japanese synthetics and naturals, I utilize the following process with great success. Naturally, the process needs to be adapted to suit the hones being employed, especially when honing on naturals.

    • Using a small DMT mesh hone, I'll build a mud with about the same consistency as milk. I hone with that until it starts to thicken a good bit. For lack of a better word, I consider that a cycle.

    • Add a few drops of water and repeat the cycle.

    • Once that thickens, instead of adding water to the hone, rinse the mud off the blade (but don't dry it). Again hone until what remains of the slurry starts to thicken and rinse the blade.

    • There shouldn't be much mud left on the hone by now. Give the razor a few more laps and move onto the next hone.


    WRT medium grit hones, the Takenoko 8K is about as good as synthetic hones get. I go from a 2.5K - 3.0K Blue Mountain Aoto to it without issue.
    Henry

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    Can some of you Gents post images of these wet stones if possible for the uniformed but curious like myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
    I've only used the the Super Stones. Call me what you will, but for the prices Choseras demand I'll take a natural hone.
    Yeah, agreed on the price. But given your disposition for all things fine, one can never be too sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
    <RE: mud>
    Wow! Thanks for the detailed response! So, it sounds like your style would be similar to "lightly" lapping the hone against a DMT (325? or higher mesh?) to create a thick mud/slurry? Do you find the Nagura stone that comes with the Takenoko to be of any value for this purpose when used with that hone?

    Quote Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
    WRT medium grit hones, the Takenoko 8K is about as good as synthetic hones get. I go from a 2.5K - 3.0K Blue Mountain Aoto to it without issue.
    Considering you as the source, your high regard for the Takenoko has me resconsidering a full Naniwa SS lineup.

    - Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBee View Post
    Can some of you Gents post images of these wet stones if possible for the uniformed but curious like myself.
    If you do a Google search, all of these hones will show up. They're common enough that many sites carry them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrowen View Post
    Do you find the Nagura stone that comes with the Takenoko to be of any value for this purpose when used with that hone?
    I think I just found my own answer to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/product-p/tak8000.htm
    Use the nagura stone to refine and smooth the stone's surface after flattening/lapping sessions to bring out the true potential of the stone. Also can be used to clean glazing from the stone's surface. Do not use to build a slurry or paste (a big time no-no) as nagura stones are much coarser than this 6000x stone it's being used on and this coarse grit will only serve to dull your knife. Rinse stone after using nagura.
    To my extremely limited understanding, doesn't sounds like anything other than a DMT could effectively be used to create the "mud", where you wouldn't get "cross-grit" contamination. ... ... ... ...unless... ... ... I buy 2 of each hone! Not likely to happen, but here's to dreaming!

    - Jason

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    From what I understand, DMT do not have to be lapped. Are there any prep for these or can you just start honing out the box?
    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrowen View Post
    I think I just found my own answer to this.



    To my extremely limited understanding, doesn't sounds like anything other than a DMT could effectively be used to create the "mud", where you wouldn't get "cross-grit" contamination. ... ... ... ...unless... ... ... I buy 2 of each hone! Not likely to happen, but here's to dreaming!

    - Jason
    Yes and no. We are getting into territory I've not fully explored. With synthetic hones, I use a 600 grit DMT mesh hone to create the "mud." With natural hones I'll use a series of nagura. A gentleman named Jim started a thread at Coticule.be about Japanese naturals and the role nagura/slurry stones play in their use. The short story seems to be that with a series of nagura and one hone, you can take a razor from dull to very sharp. Since I only have a few nagura (and too many hones), I have limited experience in this area.

    Yes, I am really fond of the Takenoko. After I inadvertantly destroyed my first one, I tried a several different replacements. None came close to performing like the Takenoko.
    Henry

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    Default german stainless

    I don't know about the japanese reazors but my Charnley Forest goes together with my friodur's like bread and butter.

    RED

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    Thislooks like pretty decent option for creating slurry on natural stones

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