Using Hone stones for sharpening knives?

The title pretty much explains my question. In a few months, I'll be thinking about getting a set of honing stones and am wondering if I could use those to take care of my cutlery.

Currently, I use Lanksky stones (or rip-offs to sharpen_ my knives, and was able to get what I thought (at the time) was a really sharp edge. Now that I have a honed razor, my definition of what sharp is, has changed.

Is there any reason I shouldn't use razor hones on knives? Any other differences/difficulties (besides the difference in angle) I should expect?

It depends on what razor hones you use.

If you're using Nortons or similar, using them with knives will result in having to lap a LOT. I use my DMT's on knives with no problems.

SliceOfLife said:

It depends on what razor hones you use.

If you're using Nortons or similar, using them with knives will result in having to lap a LOT. I use my DMT's on knives with no problems.

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I've seen threads where people talk about re-laping their Norton every 3 razors or so.

Does that mean if I use a Norton for knives, I should expect to have to re-lap it after every use?

Relapping a norton every three razors is silly.

I did relap my whetstones after every knife use before using them with razors. That was why I stopped using them with my knives. I went to Arkansas hones (with oil) and then sold those and went to my DMT's. You don't have to relap as often if you're only using it for knives, but knives dish faster and are affected by dishing slower. Razors dish slowly and are affected by dishing quickly.

SliceOfLife said:

knives dish faster and are affected by dishing slower. Razors dish slowly and are affected by dishing quickly.

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Perfectly stated.

I use my stones for both, rationalizing that it's a rare opportunity to maximize the cost effectiveness of the stones. Of course, that translates into buying thicker and more expensive stones.

I hone razors immediately after lapping, then lap again after I sharpen knives.

When my norton hones get dished from knives or the swarf gets to embedded in them I lap away.

If you can, swing it, I suggest to get different stones for the two. It really depends on how much sharpening/honing you will be doing, though.

I sharpen several different types of knives, tools and razors, and I find it best to have a dedicated set up for each, especially for the differences in kitchen knives vs. razors. I also have several different lapping plates, so even though lapping is never a problem, I still prefer to keep them separate.

In general, kitchen knives tend to really dish synthetic stones, making it not so ideal for razors, which like flat stones. The good news is that kitchen knives use the lower end of the stone spectrum more, so a good #220 and 1K stone will do them good. Razors like to start around 1K and go higher. Having the overlapping 1K is OK, so long as you are religious about keeping it flat.

In a followup question ( I wonder if maybe I'll have to start a new thread for it to get noticed).

For those razor "honemeisters" out there. I know the word-on-the-street is that in general, a knife sharpener won't be able to sharpen a razor and will probably ruin it, but is the reverse true?

Do your skills carry over to sharpening knives? Maybe some of the tactile feedback carries over?

mkornecki said:

In a followup question ( I wonder if maybe I'll have to start a new thread for it to get noticed).

For those razor "honemeisters" out there. I know the word-on-the-street is that in general, a knife sharpener won't be able to sharpen a razor and will probably ruin it, but is the reverse true?

Do your skills carry over to sharpening knives? Maybe some of the tactile feedback carries over?

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If anything, I think it would be even worse. For one, when honing razors the blade is kept flat on the stone, as the bevel is built in. When sharpening knives, you have to hit and maintain the correct angle. Being able to hone a razor provides no clue as to how to do this. Lift the spine too high and only the very edge will touch the stone, rounding it. Too low of an angle will only destroy the "shinogi" line, the line of transition from the bevel to the body of the knife, and in this case the edge won't even make contact with the stone. For this reason, feedback is more important for knife sharpening than razor honing.

Both disciplines involve the presumably simple task of sharpening a hunk of metal to a crisp edge, but the approaches are very different. Of course, there's no reason that you can't become decent at both.

The knife forum guys love pretty much the same synthetic stones as the razor guys. They just focus on the coarser end of the spectrum as stated above.

The key to conventional knife sharpening free-hand is being able to hold the angle consistent enough to form a crisp, new bevel. Since the edge need not be as delicate as a razor, more pressure on the hone is ok. One standard protocol is to work one side until a burr can be felt indicating that that side has been honed out to the edge. Then repeat on the other side. Then remove the bur with lighter stokes or with finer stones.

The most common error for beginners is using a hone that is too fine. You need a coarse grit to make any headway. Don't bother with the fine grit stuff until you've mastered the coarse work. On the other hand a really coarse stone can wreck a knife if you're not careful. With an XXC DMT you'll either get a sharp edge in a hurry or you will chew up the knife trying!

Typical kitchen knives use about 15 degree to 20 degree bevels per side. For 15 degrees raise the spine about a forth of the width of the blade. For 20 degrees raise the spine about a third of the blade width. My Henckles do best for me with 20 degree bevels.

As someone coming from a strong knife sharpening background (as well as scissors, woodworking tools, and dental/medical instruments) I can tell you that razor honing is a different skill set.

As pointed out above, the methods of sharpening knives vs. razors are different, but in theory, everything is the same for all sharpening.

matt321 said:

Typical kitchen knives use about 15 degree to 20 degree bevels per side. For 15 degrees raise the spine about a forth of the width of the blade. For 20 degrees raise the spine about a third of the blade width. My Henckles do best for me with 20 degree bevels.

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That's a pretty darn good approximation, especially for fifteen degrees.

The 2 coin/ 3 coin theory falls flat because it fails to account for the width of the blade. Two coins on a cleaver makes for a pretty acute angle.

Let me revive this aging thread. I use two sided DMT DiaSharp (coarse and fine) and Dragon's Tongue for both razors and knives. One side of the DT is for razors only, the other one for everything else. It works wonders and it is one of the cheapest setups you can get. I use other hones for razors also but not so for knives (okay I sometimes use natural polishers for knives but those are hard and do not dish as much).

Knives do not require the degree of edge polish that razors do, and in fact it can be counterproductive in many cases. A coarser edge (that is still "sharp" because there are no dings or burrs) is more suited to slicing, like opening a bag of chips or cutting up a roast. A finely polished edge is more suited to push-cutting, such as shaving with a straight razor.

The only real difference between stones for sharpening knives and stones for sharpening razors is that razor hones are typically much finer, but at the same grit and material they are the same beast, really. Sharpening knives will wear your hones faster though, and is much more likely to lead to gouging. Razors are dependant on a much smoother honing surface compared to knives, also. A few nicks in the strop I use for finishing off knives is no big deal. Nicks in your razor strop are a serious problem. So yeah, you will spend much more time lapping your stones.