Blades are confusing

[bgentry]

Hi all,

This is kinda long, but I'm trying to be complete and share my impressions so far. Maybe someone has some guidance after reading this dissertation.

I've been shaving with a DE and "real" lather for more than a month now. My beginner's setup is a Weishi DE razor, C.O. Bigelow cream, Kiss My Face lime cream, and a (surprisingly soft) boar brush from Men-u, which I think is actually made by Omega.

I *think* I'm good at lathering now. I can generally get enough good thick lather for 3 to 4 passes. The KMF sometimes seems to dry out a bit towards the 3rd or 4th pass, or if I let it sit too long on my face, but generally speaking I think I've got lathering down.

I bought sort of a sampler pack of blades from Shoe Box Shave Shop by choosing a few blades that had consistently good reviews, and then decided to add on blades from what that store calls the "high performance pack".

I think my beard is pretty thick, and it grows pretty fast. As an indication, I need a hair cut every 6 weeks or I look ragged. My beard is similar: You can definitely tell at the 24 hour mark that I have not shaved.

I started working through my blades and I'm getting a little confused as I go on. I wasn't expecting the results I got. Here are my long-ish impressions so far:

Derby Extra: Started with this, scared as hell that I'd cut myself to pieces. It wasn't bad. Just a few nicks and it wasn't all that uncomfortable.

Israeli Personna Blue Crystals: Ouch. The very first shave with this blade hurt. I tried 2 more times, after waiting more than a week in between, and they were awful. Threw the blade away.

Israeli Personna Red pack: Scrapes a bit, but doesn't hurt my face at all. I wish I could get closer, but even after 4 passes and touch up with J hooks and blade buffing, my face is comfortable.

Going back to the Derby Extra after the Red Personna showed me how rough they were. Two bad shaves (presumably while the coating gets knocked off), then 2 fairly good shaves, and by the 5th shave it's bad again (presumably dull by then). I think I'm done with these blades.

Gillette Permasharp Green Pack: Seems way sharper than others. Still snags a bit ATG. I think I love this blade, but then I apply alum and realize how harsh on my face it was. Inspection afterwards shows dry, flaky looking skin as if I need moisturizer. 5 shaves and I'm done with this blade, but not unhappy.

Going back to the Red Personna, I get several smooth comfortable shaves, again wishing I could get closer (even though the Gillettes won't do it). Very comfortable. Only minimal burning here and there with Alum. Even with 4 days of growth, this blade leaves my face smooth (for me) and comfortable.

Gillette Sharp Edge, Yellow Pack: Owie, owie, owie. Sharp blades for sure, but rough and pull bad ATG. My face burns before I touch the alum. Applying it confirms, I have roughed up my face badly. I give it 3 shaves, the last of which I do the absolute minimum of overlapping strokes, watch my pressure, *and* don't do any touchups. I still get razor burn and the alum tells me my face isn't happy.

Shark Super Stainless: Ahhhhh. Doesn't seem as sharp as the Gillettes, yet also doesn't pull ATG like they do. A couple of tiny nicks, indicating they are sharper than the Red Personnas, but not bad nicks at all. 3 passes plus somewhat aggressive touchup (J hooks and blade buffing) and I have as close a shave as any other blade has ever given me. It's still not BBS or maybe not even DFS, but good for me. ZERO irritation. The alum block didn't even burn! I've only done one shave with this blade so far, which brings us up to present day.

At this point I should mention that the philosophy on each pass of only going over each area once doesn't seem to work for me. I generally am hitting each area 2 or 3 times on each pass, as I still hear/feel hair being cut and it seems like I'm leaving a lot behind. One stroke per pass always leaves lather behind too, while a 2nd or 3rd stroke on that same area generally clean that off, along with more hair. Even after 3 to 4 passes, I feel roughness ATG, and after touchups with J hooks and blade buffing, I *still* am not totally smooth.

I tried being very "by the book" with the Yellow pack Gillettes as I indicated above and I ended up with a passable shave, but not *nearly* as smooth as I get with other blades and doing multiple strokes per pass. ...and this blade still ate my face up badly.

Do I need a more aggressive razor? More passes? 5? 6? I could spend 45 minutes shaving at this rate... I thought I needed a sharper blade, but the Gillettes are showing me that's not necessarily true.

Final notes: I still have the following blades left to try, in the approximate order I'm thinking of trying them in:

Gillette Super Platinum Black Pack
BOLZANO SuperInox Titanium
Feather Hi-Stainless Platinum

Then some miscellaneous singles that are nothing special.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. Maybe I'm never going to get that elusive BBS shave. Maybe my face is just too babyish for ultra sharp blades. Or maybe my technique is still no good. Any advice is welcomed.

Thanks,

Brian.

[Razor Emporium]

i have had great luck in the past with feather blades, even with sensitive skin. however, I would stick to 1 or 2 passes max.

[mattbikes1]

I generally am hitting each area 2 or 3 times on each pass, as I still hear/feel hair being cut and it seems like I'm leaving a lot behind. One stroke per pass always leaves lather behind too, while a 2nd or 3rd stroke on that same area generally clean that off, along with more hair.

You should not have any lather left behind after a single pass. I am thinking your angle is off. I don't know how the Weishi sits on the face, but work on better angle. While a single pass won't remove the hair completely, remember beard reduction is key, you should at the least be taking all of the lather that the razor passed over. Try shorter strokes while you are working on your angle. Here are some helpful threads:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140620

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...67#post1810967

If you are still having problems you might want to try a different razor. I am sure any of the various two or three piece Merkurs will not let you down.

Hope this is helpful for you. Good luck!

[Mr. Scruffy]

The Weishi razor does not have a reputation for being a great shaver. Try a Gillette SS.

[drburt]

You seem to be having a bit of trouble. Check your angle. Also, sort of reminds me of a time I was having problem with my Gillette and found that somehow the TTO was twisted a little open. I twisted it shut and that took care of that problem. If you do need to change your razor I would suggest one with the new Jagger-Muhle head, like the Jagger DE98L.

Burt

[California Cajun]

Hi all,

This is kinda long, but I'm trying to be complete and share my impressions so far. Maybe someone has some guidance after reading this dissertation.

I've been shaving with a DE and "real" lather for more than a month now. My beginner's setup is a Weishi DE razor, C.O. Bigelow cream, Kiss My Face lime cream, and a (surprisingly soft) boar brush from Men-u, which I think is actually made by Omega.

I *think* I'm good at lathering now. I can generally get enough good thick lather for 3 to 4 passes. The KMF sometimes seems to dry out a bit towards the 3rd or 4th pass, or if I let it sit too long on my face, but generally speaking I think I've got lathering down.

I bought sort of a sampler pack of blades from Shoe Box Shave Shop by choosing a few blades that had consistently good reviews, and then decided to add on blades from what that store calls the "high performance pack".

I think my beard is pretty thick, and it grows pretty fast. As an indication, I need a hair cut every 6 weeks or I look ragged. My beard is similar: You can definitely tell at the 24 hour mark that I have not shaved.

I started working through my blades and I'm getting a little confused as I go on. I wasn't expecting the results I got. Here are my long-ish impressions so far:

Derby Extra: Started with this, scared as hell that I'd cut myself to pieces. It wasn't bad. Just a few nicks and it wasn't all that uncomfortable.

Israeli Personna Blue Crystals: Ouch. The very first shave with this blade hurt. I tried 2 more times, after waiting more than a week in between, and they were awful. Threw the blade away.

Israeli Personna Red pack: Scrapes a bit, but doesn't hurt my face at all. I wish I could get closer, but even after 4 passes and touch up with J hooks and blade buffing, my face is comfortable.

Going back to the Derby Extra after the Red Personna showed me how rough they were. Two bad shaves (presumably while the coating gets knocked off), then 2 fairly good shaves, and by the 5th shave it's bad again (presumably dull by then). I think I'm done with these blades.

Gillette Permasharp Green Pack: Seems way sharper than others. Still snags a bit ATG. I think I love this blade, but then I apply alum and realize how harsh on my face it was. Inspection afterwards shows dry, flaky looking skin as if I need moisturizer. 5 shaves and I'm done with this blade, but not unhappy.

Going back to the Red Personna, I get several smooth comfortable shaves, again wishing I could get closer (even though the Gillettes won't do it). Very comfortable. Only minimal burning here and there with Alum. Even with 4 days of growth, this blade leaves my face smooth (for me) and comfortable.

Gillette Sharp Edge, Yellow Pack: Owie, owie, owie. Sharp blades for sure, but rough and pull bad ATG. My face burns before I touch the alum. Applying it confirms, I have roughed up my face badly. I give it 3 shaves, the last of which I do the absolute minimum of overlapping strokes, watch my pressure, *and* don't do any touchups. I still get razor burn and the alum tells me my face isn't happy.

Shark Super Stainless: Ahhhhh. Doesn't seem as sharp as the Gillettes, yet also doesn't pull ATG like they do. A couple of tiny nicks, indicating they are sharper than the Red Personnas, but not bad nicks at all. 3 passes plus somewhat aggressive touchup (J hooks and blade buffing) and I have as close a shave as any other blade has ever given me. It's still not BBS or maybe not even DFS, but good for me. ZERO irritation. The alum block didn't even burn! I've only done one shave with this blade so far, which brings us up to present day.

At this point I should mention that the philosophy on each pass of only going over each area once doesn't seem to work for me. I generally am hitting each area 2 or 3 times on each pass, as I still hear/feel hair being cut and it seems like I'm leaving a lot behind. One stroke per pass always leaves lather behind too, while a 2nd or 3rd stroke on that same area generally clean that off, along with more hair. Even after 3 to 4 passes, I feel roughness ATG, and after touchups with J hooks and blade buffing, I *still* am not totally smooth.

I tried being very "by the book" with the Yellow pack Gillettes as I indicated above and I ended up with a passable shave, but not *nearly* as smooth as I get with other blades and doing multiple strokes per pass. ...and this blade still ate my face up badly.

Do I need a more aggressive razor? More passes? 5? 6? I could spend 45 minutes shaving at this rate... I thought I needed a sharper blade, but the Gillettes are showing me that's not necessarily true.

Final notes: I still have the following blades left to try, in the approximate order I'm thinking of trying them in:

Gillette Super Platinum Black Pack
BOLZANO SuperInox Titanium
Feather Hi-Stainless Platinum

Then some miscellaneous singles that are nothing special.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. Maybe I'm never going to get that elusive BBS shave. Maybe my face is just too babyish for ultra sharp blades. Or maybe my technique is still no good. Any advice is welcomed.

Thanks,

Brian.

I've used Shark and Personna DE blades and the problems seems to be that the blades are a different size. Two blades (one Shark and one Personna) didn't cut hardly at all and the other two (one Shark and one Personna) seemed to stick out farther and did the job. I tried to watch the blade position when I screwed in the handle of my DE razor but it shaves as if the blades are of different widths.

[Silverstar]

In addition, you must try Iridium Super and Astra Superior Platinum. Particularly the Iridiums are great, almost as sharp as feather but with a much better longevity. And yes, blades are very confusing, I myself can't unfortunately shave at all with the Red Personnas.

[Go West Young Man]

I call user error. Yes, our 'rules' are actually 'suggestions', and many guys here regularly do the exact opposite of what is commonly agreed upon to be good shaving practices. However, you only get to that point after a lot of trial and error and learning exactly what works for you. After only doing this for a month, you're not anywhere near experienced enough to make those claims.

I would suggest that you go back and focus on fundamentals of prep, lather, angles and passes. You really shouldn't be doing multiple passes without lathering, you shouldn't be getting that many nicks or cuts, and you definitely don't want to be going ATG or chasing BBS any time soon.

[SiBurning]

Seems you're doing well for now with the red personnas. Buy a couple dozen and stick with them for a few months. Meanwhile, work on your technique. I think for now you should try relathering before going back over an area. You can do a sort of blade buff where the backward part puts shaving cream back on your face, but I'd hold off on that for now. See if you do better with an extra pass or two or as you're doing it now. Eventually, I think you'll end up with a much lighter touch and better technique at which point you should go back to those other, sharper blades because they do seem to have some advantages for you that you're not quite ready to tackle with your heavier touch. You'll have a couple of Aha! moments when you realize how heavy your touch is now. There's a lot of other good advice here. Don't be in too much of a rush, though.

[DFrancis]

The Weishi razor does not have a reputation for being a great shaver. Try a Gillette SS.

+1, you may want to pick up a better razor, pretty much anything else you pick up will be better than a Weishi.

[Dennis]

I was also going to say get a better razor. You should probably repeat this test with a shiny new Merkur HD in hand or similar razor. I believe you will notice a difference.

[Geordon]

+1, you may want to pick up a better razor, pretty much anything else you pick up will be better than a Weishi.

According to the reviews section, you should also steer clear of the Parker brand razors. Apparently they have some quality-control issues. Too bad, too, because I like the looks of some of the Parkers.

[bluefoxicy]

Blades are confusing

Elegant simplicity.

But yes, stick with something that works okay for a little while.

[bgentry]

I call user error.

Perhaps.

I would suggest that you go back and focus on fundamentals of prep, lather, angles and passes. You really shouldn't be doing multiple passes without lathering,

Well, it's more like a "double scrape" over each region. But I hear you.

you shouldn't be getting that many nicks or cuts, and you definitely don't want to be going ATG or chasing BBS any time soon.

I'm not getting cut that often. It's more the irritation with sharp blades (and Derby and Crystal). But I'm really responding to talk about ATG: I did just WTG, XTG for maybe 3 or 4 shaves and literally got some of the poorest shaves of my life in terms of closeness. After talking to a friend who was also a beginner, I threw in an ATG pass and it made an enormous difference. I think as long as you pay attention to the areas on your face that are sensitive, ATG isn't near the big deal that people here and in tutorials seem to make it out to be.

Honestly, without doing an ATG (or very close to it) pass, I don't think I'd keep doing this. The shaves are just too coarse without it.

Brian.

[bgentry]

Responding in general to all the comments here:

Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it.

I'll consider a different razor over the next few months as funds allow. But I'm inclined to believe that most of you are right in suggesting that my angle, pressure, and lather may need work.

As for my going over a region more than once, I have two thoughts. First, I figured out that in some cases I'm leaving lather behind because I have so much of it built up on the head of the razor that I'm re-coating it with lather as I go. I need to rinse a little more often, especially with the HUGE lather I get from KMF.

Second, I should probably try a strict "single stroke per pass" session or two, or 4 and see what I think. My gut feeling is that I'm going to get a far less close shave, but I won't know until I try. The one time I did it, I got a pretty mediocre shave, but I also didn't do any touchups. Hmm.

Maybe I'll order 10 or so RPs or Sharks and give them several weeks and see if I can get my technique down. At this point, something like 5 or 6 weeks into it, should I be settled on one or two starter blades, or should I continue to go through the blades in my sample pack? I had planned to try them all before deciding, but maybe that's not the wisest course?

Thanks,

Brian.

[BladeDE40]

If the Sharks or RPs seem to work it wouldn't hurt to stick with those for now while you hone your technique...you can always try more blades later on...you may even find that as your technique improves, blades that you did not initially like, you may actually start liking.

[bgentry]

Further experiences:

I got 4 shaves from my Shark blade. One and two were very good comfortable shaves. One 3 I tried doing less repetition of strokes during each pass and strangely I got a bit of irritation. The blade couldn't be dull already. I must be doing something else... I thought. Shave #4 was a miniature disaster. I got a pretty good burn going and 10 minutes later razor bumps. The blade indeed was too dull for a good shave after 2.5 shaves and by #4 was BAD. So Sharks see to be a no go for me. I'll use up what I've got at 2 to 3 shaves per blade, but they don't make sense to buy more.

I switched back to a Red Personna yesterday and got a great close comfortable shave. I can't seem to get beyond just "very close", which equates to a tiny bit of roughness with the grain (in spots) and a lot more roughness against the grain. But still, no irritation and much closer than just a "regular old shave" from the old days of cartridges and electrics.

I'm tempted to go back to trying the sharper blades, but the evidence seems to point to me needing a more middle of the road blade. Are there any other blades in this range I should try?

Brian.

[Dennis]

If you like the Red Packs, I would look at the Iridium Supers too.

[Silverstar]

If you like the Red Packs, I would look at the Iridium Supers too.

IMHO they haven't many qualities common. The Iridiums are way sharper and lasts longer.