Pakistani

Hi members at B&B.

Cruising around ebay i found a razor and a strop and mailed them
asking where the razor come from.

The answer were:
"nothing exotic i'm afraid the name on the razor
is IMPERIAL and as far as i am aware it's a good old british razor"

so,i asked again:

"ok, imperial,have you tried it?
Lovely razor but i intend to hone and shave with
it so if its from pakistan,i cant use it.
May i ask where you have bought it?"

And here is the answer:

"i soursed these razors from the uk, but the wholesaler who happens to be pakistany as it happens may well of had them manifactured in pakistan.
out of curiosity why can't you shave with a razor from pakistan??"

so i answered:

"Thank you for your quick respond.
Razors from pakistan cant get the edge to shave properly. The steel have not the quality to become a razoredge and hold that edge for a time.

Every wetshaver knows about it".

Next day this came:
"
i dont pretend to be an expert in this field, however facial shaving has been my profession for the past 32 years and am very confused as to why you would make that observation.
actually it's china who buys all the wests cheap steels which they convert into inferior alloys and make cheap copies of the wests razors, hoping to sell them to uninformed people here.
i actualy use my razors to shave my clients. i would also add i know many people, all wet shavers, [profestionals i might add ] who would choose an indian razor because of the blade quality.
so i would have to respectfully strongly disagree with you on the comments you have made.
look! at the end of the day it comes down to personal choice.
i know what i want in a blade, and you have your choice. they just differ."

I have not answered yet because i´m astonished over the mail from them.
Professional shaver for 32 years with clients!!!
With Pakistani!!!

What are you saying guys?


P.S.
I hope i dont braking any rules here by posting this
but i have censured any names of persons.

D.S.

Bernt

Since you didn't make the other guy's identity public, I see no issue with posting.

Honestly, this is the reason I don't ever communicate with ebay sellers, except to ask for more pics/information or about shipping or other non-razor related stuff. The only exception is if I know the seller by reputation and know he or she knows what he or she is talking about. I have found it never goes anywhere positive.

holli4pirating said:

Since you didn't make the other guy's identity public, I see no issue with posting.

Honestly, this is the reason I don't ever communicate with ebay sellers, except to ask for more pics/information or about shipping or other non-razor related stuff. The only exception is if I know the seller by reputation and know he or she knows what he or she is talking about. I have found it never goes anywhere positive.

Click to expand...

+2
I'll buy it or not, but I don't want to talk to the seller at all. Ever. About anything.

If he's a typical Eboy seller he'll say whatever he needs to in order to push his wares.

He´s claiming that he have shaved clients in a beauty
salon the past 32 years. With this Pakistani razor!

Have anybody heard about a pakistani razor called Imperial?

Is this the Pakistans answer to Gold Dollar or is he lying in my face?

I'm not so sure Pakistani razors are as crappy as most people assume they are. I'm equally unsure that they are any good indeed.
They got a bad reputation at some point. There are gentlemen out there that would like to give an equally bad reputation to Gold Dollar razors from China. And we all know these are capable of taking excellent edges (though there are issues with scales, shoulders and tangs, just like there can be issues with corrosion, scales and warp in vintage razors of "old-world" brands). I think some people would like them (the Gold Dollars) to go away, because they feel cheap razors that shave as well as expensive "heirloom" razors from illustrious brands, cause devaluation of the hobby. And for some also a commercial annoyance. And so, they find it a comfortable thought that Pakistani razors are considered to be worthless.
And maybe they are, but after reading the recent attempts to bring Gold Dollar razors down, I don't really trust all those opinions anymore.
So maybe we ought to make a selection of 3 or 4 Pakistani razors and pass them around some experienced, yet open-minded members of the straight shaving community. And find out if the steel is really that worthless as we are supposed to believe it is. After all, if some of the most reputed razors can be made of simple 01 tool steel, I don't see why they can't get it right in Pakistan or India. Both nations have a standing industrial tradition with steel. (Mittal steel (India) was one of the largest steel production companies in the world, when it merged with Arcelor (EU). It now is the wolds largest steel producer).

I wouldn't mind trying out a few Pakistani razors.

Best regards,
Bart.

Bart said:

I'm not so sure Pakistani razors are as crappy as most people assume they are. I'm equally unsure that they are any good indeed.
They got a bad reputation at some point. There are gentlemen out there that would like to give an equally bad reputation to Gold Dollar razors from China. And we all know these are capable of taking excellent edges (though there are issues with scales, shoulders and tangs, just like there can be issues with corrosion, scales and warp in vintage razors of "old-world" brands). I think some people would like them (the Gold Dollars) to go away, because they feel cheap razors that shave as well as expensive "heirloom" razors from illustrious brands, cause devaluation of the hobby. And for some also a commercial annoyance. And so, they find it a comfortable thought that Pakistani razors are considered to be worthless.
And maybe they are, but after reading the recent attempts to bring Gold Dollar razors down, I don't really trust all those opinions anymore.
So maybe we ought to make a selection of 3 or 4 Pakistani razors and pass them around some experienced, yet open-minded members of the straight shaving community. And find out if the steel is really that worthless as we are supposed to believe it is. After all, if some of the most reputed razors can be made of simple 01 tool steel, I don't see why they can't get it right in Pakistan or India. Both nations have a standing industrial tradition with steel. (Mittal steel (India) was one of the largest steel production companies in the world, when it merged with Arcelor (EU). It now is the wolds largest steel producer).

I wouldn't mind trying out a few Pakistani razors.

Best regards,
Bart.

Click to expand...

Bart,

I'd also be a guinea pig. Also, I agree with your post 100%.

Thanks,

Og

I don't think it's just talk or some prejudice against paki's. I've seen plenty of posts where experienced guys have bought them and tried to sharpen them and they either couldn't or the edge didn't last. So it's a matter of how many do you want to test to make a final determination 10,50,100?

If your saying no ones given them a fair shake I can't agree with that.

Thebigspendur said:

I don't think it's just talk or some prejudice against paki's. I've seen plenty of posts where experienced guys have bought them and tried to sharpen them and they either couldn't or the edge didn't last. So it's a matter of how many do you want to test to make a final determination 10,50,100?

If your saying no ones given them a fair shake I can't agree with that.

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TBS -

You may be right, as I haven't been around long enough to have seen the original Pakistani trial period, but I think the point of Bart's post was that it's a poor exercise in due diligence to wholesale discredit something by association simply because it falls under a broad category (i.e. Pakistani, Chinese, Indian, et cetera).

I was just saying that if the barber who shaved his clients with a Pakistani blade for 32 years challenged me to have a shave with it, I'd certainly give it a try -- even at the very least to understand how a "bad razor" shaves (or doesn't shave).

I've never had a "bad razor" so it'd be educational at the very least.

Cheers,

Ogie

Bart said:

I'm not so sure Pakistani razors are as crappy as most people assume they are. I'm equally unsure that they are any good indeed.
They got a bad reputation at some point. There are gentlemen out there that would like to give an equally bad reputation to Gold Dollar razors from China. And we all know these are capable of taking excellent edges (though there are issues with scales, shoulders and tangs, just like there can be issues with corrosion, scales and warp in vintage razors of "old-world" brands). I think some people would like them (the Gold Dollars) to go away, because they feel cheap razors that shave as well as expensive "heirloom" razors from illustrious brands, cause devaluation of the hobby. And for some also a commercial annoyance. And so, they find it a comfortable thought that Pakistani razors are considered to be worthless.
And maybe they are, but after reading the recent attempts to bring Gold Dollar razors down, I don't really trust all those opinions anymore.
So maybe we ought to make a selection of 3 or 4 Pakistani razors and pass them around some experienced, yet open-minded members of the straight shaving community. And find out if the steel is really that worthless as we are supposed to believe it is. After all, if some of the most reputed razors can be made of simple 01 tool steel, I don't see why they can't get it right in Pakistan or India. Both nations have a standing industrial tradition with steel. (Mittal steel (India) was one of the largest steel production companies in the world, when it merged with Arcelor (EU). It now is the wolds largest steel producer).

I wouldn't mind trying out a few Pakistani razors.

Best regards,
Bart.

Click to expand...

Some of us actually tried, some actually on the "do not buy list" will shave, the problem comes with the consistency of the razors...
Just like the GD's, some have serious issues that need fixing, some don't, Some of the Pakistani razors can take an edge, some need serious work, some crumble when you get close to an edge...
If you were around during the Wapi 1 craze, not all of those were good, either, many of them around the 3rd-4th honing the heel starts to crumble...

To me and many others a non-consistent brand is a problem brand...

I have honed the Zeepks, the Venus, the Golden Camel, the Salter, the Sanguine, the Krieger, The Wapi 1, the Wapi 2, the Master, the Double Arrows, the Gold Dollars, the Gold Monkey, the Imperial, the Kamisori and a few others that I can't think of right now... I looked at them as a challenge...
Some you can get an edge to pop, some you can't, many the edge holds until about the 8k level then starts to fail....

So before you start implying that there some vast conspiracy out there maybe you should actually take the time to read the old archives on this site and SRP and see that many of the old timers didn't just get together and decide to black list razors...

Or better yet, as you say, start honing.... but don't be naive and think if you get one to pop an edge, that they all will


Enjoy

Oglethorpe said:

Bart,

I'd also be a guinea pig. Also, I agree with your post 100%.

Thanks,

Og

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Totally agree with you too Bart!
Under my short time being a member here and with my limited knowledge
about straightshaving,still i have noticed misleading (organised?)information about the Gold Dollar razors.
When 9 of 10 people here really like GD, i assume its a good razor.
And when the 10th person jumps in in every thread regarding GD
with misleading information,my warningsbells rings.
Examine other wetshave forums,i find the same guy(s) being moderators/
vendors,so yes Bart,its all about money ...
I can understand when people lies to make a profit in the finance world
but do it officialy as a founder/moderator/ in a forum,it really sucks...

With that in mind,the pakistany razor,used daily for 32 years by a professional
shaver in a salon,well maybe he is not lying.
Sure,i´m in for testing that razor and i can try to contact him again.
If he answer me ....

There are some knifes which are listed with title Pakistan steel on ebay. They wouldn't if it's that bad

Hogans1-Iron said:

Totally agree with you too Bart!
Under my short time being a member here and with my limited knowledge
about straightshaving,still i have noticed misleading (organised?)information about the Gold Dollar razors.
When 9 of 10 people here really like GD, i assume its a good razor.
And when the 10th person jumps in in every thread regarding GD
with misleading information,my warningsbells rings.
Examine other wetshave forums,i find the same guy(s) being moderators/
vendors,so yes Bart,its all about money ...
I can understand when people lies to make a profit in the finance world
but do it officialy as a founder/moderator/ in a forum,it really sucks...

With that in mind,the pakistany razor,used daily for 32 years by a professional
shaver in a salon,well maybe he is not lying.
Sure,i´m in for testing that razor and i can try to contact him again.
If he answer me ....

Click to expand...

BTW: Just for a small Econ 101 lesson, the real profit margin is in the GD razors, so I agree that many people are in this just for the money, by selling you a $2 razor and making a %500-700 markup yeah you are right it is all about the money.... Now if you take that razor fix the problems and hone it, that is an 8000-10000% mark up right????

Wow I should be selling GD's that is where the money really is...


Hint: One should really read the forum they are actually on...

http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28470

I must admit I've scratched my head frequently on this issue wondering if the barbers in Pakistan use German or French made razors. Perhaps what is on EBay is not representative of what they use in Pakistan locally. I've yet to hear a good review on a EBay Pakistan blade. My eyes and mind are open to such a thing.

Well, on the Double Arrows, I can comment. I have honed and test shaved in between 30 and 40 razors of that brand. I own 8 of them myself. They're all very consistent in the edge they take and hold. I wouldn't call them any less consistent than Dovo razors. Most of them have an issue with the heal making proper contact on the hone. There are a few options to easily deal with that. The scales are flimsy, cheap, but functional.

On the Gold Dollars I can comment as well. I have honed about 7 or 8 of them. I don't know about edge retention, because I just honed and test shaved them (one full test shave, because I didn't want to take chances). The edges shaved on par with the Double Arrows and entry-level Dovo razors. Other than cosmetic flaws -some ugly-, none of these blades had any issues that would make it unfit to provide a good shave.

These razors are as basic as it gets, for a price as basic as it gets.

About 2 years ago, someone send me a razor without brand, for sharpening. I honed it and had a decent test shave, among with 3 other razors I had to hone.
I sent it back to the owner, together with another razor I had done for him. He was excited about that edge, but told me the unbranded razor pulled like hell. I asked to send it back on my expenses and found out, that indeed the razors was dull. I rehoned the razor and went for a full test shave. The edge crumbled mid shave. I don't know whether it was a Pakistani razor or not. But it sure was evidence that razor shaped objects are out there, that won't hold a decent edge. Yet that still doesn't make it impossible for a Pakistan or India brand to be good.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Bart said:

Yet that still doesn't make it impossible for a Pakistan or India brand to be good.

Kind regards,
Bart.

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Bart obviously your definition of consistent, and of a good shave are different from mine, but that is of no real consequence... that is just my face compared to yours...



Re-read my post though, your closing statement agrees with exactly what I posted... nothing is impossible, I have done it myself... I think you should too

But your premise that there is some vast conspiracy to black list these razors is simply ludicrous, many others have done the honing/shaving tests too... You, actually belong to other forums in Europe do they shave these razors??????

Interesting

Oh God....here it comes. The Gold Dollar "discussion". Like Déjà vu.

If I buy a straight from that region, should I also pick myself up a nice Geiger Counter?

luvmysuper said:

If I buy a straight from that region, should I also pick myself up a nice Geiger Counter?

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I didn't think about that... I'll stick to Russian blades then..