Wondering if this whole str8 thing is going to work out...

Hello there -

I am obviously new at this (only ~2 weeks), so I realize that the first advice I'm likely to hear is 'keep at it', 'too early to tell'...etc. I've probably practised with the str8 only ~10 times, always finishing with the DE. But so far, I've had only minimal success and I'm beginning to wonder if this whole thing is making sense...

I've got what I believe is a shave-ready razor, purchased from a reputable guy who I believe is a respected guy around here. It's a 9/16, hollow ground (I think) spike point of unknown make. What do I know? He says it's shave-ready, I believe it is (or was....) shave-ready. Knowledgable, helpful, straightforward guy - I think I'm good on this.

I have been trying to do all things 'correctly', based on the best advice that I've seen here, across the hall, videos (here), and other information. As it is now, I can shave pretty much any part of my face, but I tend to stay on one area during one session (maybe my upper cheek area). Right now, I can get no better than a 'weak' first pass shave, and additional passes don't get me much better, let alone where I need to be.

Anyway, some observations:

1) I think I'm taking very good care of the razor. I give it 30-50 laps on a cheap, practise strop before shaving (no stropping at the first shave on the advice of the guy who sold it to me). The practice strop is not the best, but I'm not yet ready to sink any more dough into this until I see some progress.

2) I have touched it up a couple of times already with 5-6 passes on a barber hone that I lapped smooth.

3) I am comfortable gripping the blade (both hands) to get all areas of my face going WTG and ATG. I cannot yet do cross-wise to save my life, but the way my beard grows, I typically need 3 passes, even with a DE. I'll get there, I guess...

4) Beard conditioning is very good, I think: Proraso or Tabac applied with a crappy brush, but still, the lather is good. Always immediately after a shower.

5) I think my blade angle is OK. I start flat against the skin and then increase until it grabs comfortably. I seem to be able to find the sweet spot pretty well. It seems to shaves smooth, but not too smooth, if that makes any sense. I pull the skin taut everywhere I can.

In short, no matter what I do, I cannot get a finished shave even if I concentrate on just one simple area - e.g., right below the sideburns.
I sense that I would be happier using a slightly wider razor with a little more heft, and perhaps one with a more forgiving grind, but I don't know that any of these are the limiting factors here. I'm not crazy about the spike point, either.

Bottom line: Does it sound like anything is ever going to 'kick in'? I realize that it's pretty dang early here in my experiment, but I really thought I would have had at least some better result thus far - at least on small areas. This is what's throwing me.

Any thoughts appreciated (including 'relax and give it time'...).

Thanks.
Woodash

Woodash, you idiot:

Be patient.

Love and kisses,
Woodash

Woodash said:

Woodash, you idiot:

Be patient.

Love and kisses,
Woodash

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Woodash, listen to Woodash.

Sincerely (but w/out the love and kisses)
Doc4

Woodash,

I can't offer advice....only an empathetic shoulder. I've got you by only about two shaves , but I will say that after pass one I still feel WAY more stubble than I did with a DE.

After pass 2, I feel less but the "trouble spots" that plague so many (chin, jawline) still feel stubbly til I reach for my DE to finish.

That said my gauge of how well I've been doing is this:

The fact that I can get BBS with only one pass (that third pass) with my DE tells me that I'm cutting hairs and cutting hairs well on the first two passes with my str8. Remember, just like DE shaving its all about beard reduction on every pass....so each pass will take a little more down.

My guess is that because our technique still sucks royal yeti arse, areas we are used to feeling smooth with a DE after pass 1 or 2 (your problem areas) still have major stubble because you control the angle of attack WAY more with a str8 than a DE.

Thus, because we have preconceived expecations of results in those areas based on DE shaves of the past....we expect the same during our first passes with a str8.

Unfortunately, we have to throw out those expectations and start anew....with everything!

Best of luck bro.

I've been shaving with a straight, off and on, since December. My first experience was similar to yours. About 2 weeks in, I was frustrated about not making the progress I thought I should. I went back to just DE's for a couple weeks and then started using the straight now and then. I wasn't seeing much improvement, yet I wanted to figure out how to make it work.

Finally, a little more than a month ago I committed to using nothing but the straight for every shave. The first couple days were rough but then it started coming together. All of a sudden, I started getting shaves that were as good as with a DE and then better.

Now I couldn't possibly think of going back. I've picked up a few more razors to try different sizes and grinds. I find the whole thing very satisfying.

So what's the point, right? Maybe take a break for a bit and let the frustration subside. Then totally commit for a bit. I wouldn't use a DE to touch things up. I know there are differing opinions on that, but it made me really think about how to get at the stubborn spots and I slowed down and took my time. That's when it all started to come together.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

Ru4scuba? said:

I can't offer advice....only an empathetic shoulder. I've got you by only about two shaves , but I will say that after pass one I still feel WAY more stubble than I did with a DE.

My guess is that because our technique still sucks royal yeti arse, areas we are used to feeling smooth with a DE after pass 1 or 2 (your problem areas) still have major stubble because you control the angle of attack WAY more with a str8 than a DE.

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I hear you, Chris. There is clearly some shaving going on, but as you said, one pass with the str8 gives way more stubble than the DE (and btw - it takes me 2-3 passes with the DE to get a very good shave; 1 or 2 won't do it for me). The thing that's got me going is that I tend to concentrate just on small areas w/ the str8 to see if I can get a decent result there, but so far, not even a passable shave. I guess I do have some expectations of getting at least a small area or two done ~reasonably well with the str8. That's why I'm not sure what's going on.

JPM said:

Finally, a little more than a month ago I committed to using nothing but the straight for every shave. The first couple days were rough but then it started coming together. All of a sudden, I started getting shaves that were as good as with a DE and then better.

Now I couldn't possibly think of going back. I've picked up a few more razors to try different sizes and grinds. I find the whole thing very satisfying.

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Interesting, John. Jumping off the cliff with a str8 razor in your hand! I'll definately keep plugging, but for now, I have no choice but to finish up with a DE. It just wouldn't get done right now if I didn't do that. Like I said, right now it's all practise and no result...yet...

If I thought I could get away with it right now, I'd try the cold turkey thing - at least for a while. We'll see what happens....
Actually, Thanks for the input y'all.

Woodash said:

but for now, I have no choice but to finish up with a DE.

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I wouldn't stress about that my friend. I do the same thing. I'm in the military. Sucky shaves are not an option...I have to have a decent, close shave every day. The only answer is to str8 shave every day and finish up with a DE to get DFS/BBS.

Every day I've noticed that I shave a little more with the str8...a little less with the DE.

It'll come together for us eventually!

I, too, can only lend a sympathetic shoulder. I've been shaving with a straight for almost a month and it is tough. It's just within the last couple days that I've been getting respectable shaves.

I'm in the same boat too. I've been using a straight for a few months now, and its just now starting to come together. It is worth the effort though.

I read about a guy who was having similar problems, and kept using his DE to "finish" his shaves. He didn't start making the kind of improvements that he wanted until he stopped relying on that as a backup. I'm not sure if that is what it would take to get you more comfortable with a str8, but maybe it's something to think about.

JRichmond said:

I read about a guy who was having similar problems, and kept using his DE to "finish" his shaves. He didn't start making the kind of improvements that he wanted until he stopped relying on that as a backup. I'm not sure if that is what it would take to get you more comfortable with a str8, but maybe it's something to think about.

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I hear you, but the fact is that for now, if I didn't do the DE back up, it would not get done. The str8 is just not working adequately at all. I'm sure that practising more and getting better would help, but at this point, I don't think that just doing more of the same will make up the difference. Something is not working, and I would like to know how to remedy that.
Thanks.

JRichmond said:

I read about a guy who was having similar problems, and kept using his DE to "finish" his shaves. He didn't start making the kind of improvements that he wanted until he stopped relying on that as a backup. I'm not sure if that is what it would take to get you more comfortable with a str8, but maybe it's something to think about.

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The downside to that is that guys like me (in the military) are struggling to get anything passable yet after two passes with the str8 (DE is needed to finish). If you have to look presentable every day...the str8 learning curve definitely poses challenges with the lengthy learning tail.

You WILL ultimately achieve fantastic results. Trust me. Practice Practice Practice... It comes together and you have a Eureka moment and then it becomes second nature. It is an acquired skill, some might refer to it as an art. Many times it is the very moment when you are tempted to can the whole idea of straights that you get a breakthrough. Best wishes!

Ru4scuba? said:

The downside to that is that guys like me (in the military) are struggling to get anything passable yet after two passes with the str8 (DE is needed to finish). If you have to look presentable every day...the str8 learning curve definitely poses challenges with the lengthy learning tail.

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This may be too time consuming, but maybe you could fully shave at night with the straight to practice. Then in the morning do a quick touch up with the DE to be presentable. Just a thought.

Let me start by saying that "I feel you, man." Its so hard to keep up with the straight when you have to go to work with cuts and stubble. I like the looks I get from my clients as I speak with them about their finances. Haha.

I say you should keep going, but I've never shaved with a de, so I don't have the luxury of going back to something. The dreaded electric has been retired... Permanently!

Ha Ha!

Antique Hoosier said:

You WILL ultimately achieve fantastic results. Trust me. Practice Practice Practice... It comes together and you have a Eureka moment and then it becomes second nature. It is an acquired skill, some might refer to it as an art. Many times it is the very moment when you are tempted to can the whole idea of straights that you get a breakthrough. Best wishes!

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Yes - I hope you're right about the Eureka moment. If you are, I will buy you a beer*.

JPM said:

This may be too time consuming, but maybe you could fully shave at night with the straight to practice. Then in the morning do a quick touch up with the DE to be presentable. Just a thought.

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Yeah - that might be the thing.

mouscacha said:

Let me start by saying that "I feel you, man." Its so hard to keep up with the straight when you have to go to work with cuts and stubble. I like the looks I get from my clients as I speak with them about their finances. Haha. ....

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Fortunately, no cuts, only stubble and/or razor burn if I scrape away at it for too long.

Thank all.

(*You must come to MA to collect.)

Ru4scuba? said:

The downside to that is that guys like me (in the military) are struggling to get anything passable yet after two passes with the str8 (DE is needed to finish). If you have to look presentable every day...the str8 learning curve definitely poses challenges with the lengthy learning tail.

Click to expand...

I didn't have many problems with my shaves from the start (could be my mentor), and I was bragging to the CSM that same day. I do know that shaving with a str8 is going to take longer than with a de/cartridge regardless of your proficiency.

I've taken to shaving the night before (now that I am truly getting good shaves), and to be honest: the next day my shave is as close as I would ever do with a cartridge anyway. But as always YMMV.

I may be stating the obvious, but I read this thread and hadn't seen it mentioned...

are you certain your blade is sharp? have you done hanging hair tests? (don't do thumb nail tests)

Hanging hair tests don't necessarily mean the blade is as sharp as it could be, but it's an obvious place to start. Shave tests are the definitive sharp test, but that doesn't really help guys like us with nearly no technique or understanding of how a sharp razor is supposed to exactly feel.

Sorry if you've already checked this, but I just thought I'd mention it.

I've got all of one shave under my belt - but I did two complete passes - one with and one against the grain, and besides a bit of aftershave "rawness" and high anxiety against the grain on my chin and mustache I had no problems. I have a coarse, wire-like whiskers, and used plain old bar soap as lather. I attribute my nub success to getting a VERY sharp blade from a trusted ebayer.

Romac said:

I may be stating the obvious, but I read this thread and hadn't seen it mentioned...

are you certain your blade is sharp? have you done hanging hair tests? thumb nail tests?

Hanging hair tests don't necessarily mean the blade is as sharp as it could be, but it's an obvious place to start - if hairs don't pop right off with a hanging hair test the blade is not sharp enough.

Sorry if you've already checked this, but I just thought I'd mention it.

I've got all of one shave under my belt - but I did two complete passes - one with and one against the grain, and besides a bit of aftershave "rawness" and high anxiety against the grain on my chin and mustache I had no problems. I have a coarse, wire-like whiskers, and used plain old bar soap as lather. I attribute my nub success to getting a VERY sharp blade from a trusted ebayer.

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Well this is where I was going to go as well considering that you've done your own honing and stropping . . .

One of the things I've had to learn and learn over and learn over is that at each step there is an incredible lightness of touch that becomes necessary at each step. I stand to be corrected on each and every statement . . .

On of the problems is we expect to feel or hear results resulting in pressing down to make things work as we think they should work . . . . but no with a razor maybe not.

In honing . . . you may need to press a bit to remove a chip or set the blade angle but at each level of hone you need to be very very gentle before moving to the next finer hone.

In stropping . . . we go back and forth . . . what does it sound like . . . maybe I should press harder because it sounds like nothing is happening. . . .

well so far for me light . . . blade pressure . . . is working. I've pressed harder and had bad shaves. I've pressed and recovered by using blade pressure . . . and nirvana . . . great shaves. Maybe starting with some pressure and finishing light is good ( I do about 50 on both linen and leather before each shave . . . considerably more after I hone as I find the first couple of shaves after honing to be a bit harsh)

Now shaving . . . much the same . . . despite all I read and great advice here on B&B I was pressing . . . trying to make things happen. Even though my razor was sharp enough to get a close shave and I thought I was doing very well things took a quantum leap forward when I finally understood what I was trying to do . . . shave the beard off my face . . . not shave my face. So now in my mind I am trying only to touch the hair on my face without touching my face.

I have dark hair and light skin . . . unless I go against the grain on my neck I see visually long stubble. Keeping in ming the lightness of touch going against the grain works for me just fine . . . now . . . finally . . . . wow.

I was playing around with straight shaving on weekends etc. since the middle of 2008 . . . I bit the bullet this January and have almost always shave with a straight now . . . ( I shave everyday and have used a DE about 4 times since mid January . . . all other days shaved with a straight)


I hope this helps in some small way.

Mike

Right, I'm guessing that you are expecting nice results after 10 shaves? I don't blade you but I would say, keep at it.

If you are not experiencing any pain, cuts, nicks or anything that make you say 'oh no, that thing again', keep at it.

I think it took me close to 30 shaves to get a DFS. The angle is very important.

have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/jockeys41

I find the angle a bit high but it should give you an idea...