Do I have to have a stone over 8K?

**raccoonandbrush** · 03-24-2010, 12:04 PM

Right now I have a 325 grit and 1200 grit stone. I am going to be getting the Norton 4K 8K. Do I need to have a stone over 8K? If the 8K will make the razor shave ready than I don't need anything else. Will the 8K make the razor shave ready?

Thanks!

P.S.
I meant to write "Do I need to have a stone over 8K" for the title.

**richmondesi** · 03-24-2010, 12:11 PM

No you don't need to. Most guys use something more, but with skill an 8k is enough.

**SliceOfLife** · 03-24-2010, 01:12 PM

You can shave off of 8k comfortably. Then again, I have never heard of someone getting a more fine finishing stone, trying it and saying "Hmm, I can't tell a difference" then selling it and going back to finishing on his 8k.

**Chimensch** · 03-24-2010, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by richmondesi

No you don't need to. Most guys use something more, but with skill an 8k is enough.

Originally Posted by SliceOfLife

You can shave off of 8k comfortably. Then again, I have never heard of someone getting a more fine finishing stone, trying it and saying "Hmm, I can't tell a difference" then selling it and going back to finishing on his 8k.

With the help of two well-meanng enablers, racoonandbrush begins his slow spiral into HAD.

**SliceOfLife** · 03-24-2010, 01:32 PM

It's like a cold, the best cure is to give it to someone else.

**forum9** · 03-24-2010, 02:07 PM

I have tried many routes to sharpness.

The cheapest hone to set a bevel is a piece of wet and dry paper of about 1000 grit.(some say 800 grit, some say 1200 grit) You shouldn’t need to establish a new bevel often and so $ 5.00 on a packet of papers is a bit of a bargain.

You cut each piece into three strips of about 8” by 3”. Take one strip and and wash and rub any loose grit off the surface. Lay the strip on a flat surface (glass is good) and hone. Take a look after five passes and the rest is common sense. If you see parts of the blade are not being honed, you need to think about the problem and cure it. Most blades will hone smoothly.

So you have a nice bevel running the length of the blade and on both sides.

Next you need to sharpen the bevel. This is done using a 5000 grit hone.(Some say 4000 grit some say 6000 grit) When you come off the 5000, the edge will cut hair easily but it is not smooth.

Finally, you need to smooth or “hone” or polish the edge.

There are so many ways of doing this, the simplest and final part of the whole process, it isn’t true. On the forums, everyone has a favourite. The range goes from Belgian coticules to German eschers to Japanese mystery hones to diamond wonders or vintage barbers hones to ceramics to Shaptons to Japanese naturals, to slates from every Country on the planet to newspaper or leather or wood , coated in diamond grit or carbon grit or aluminium grit or Chromium oxide grit either on a hard level surface or hanging surface and on and on and on. Eventually lazers.

Those guys in the know will tell you, the skill is with person finishing the “honing" and not the hone itself.

So my advice is pick what you can afford and learn how to use it.

The rest is just bravado.

**Ru4scuba?** · 03-24-2010, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chimensch

With the help of two well-meanng enablers, racoonandbrush begins his slow spiral into HAD.

I was on the brink of the HAD chasm....but I backed away from the edge. I'm good to go with my Barber's Hone and your good advice for now Chimensch!

Not to mention the fact...that another good use for a stone as big as a coti or Norton 8k is for my wife to chase me around the house with it after she sees what I spent

**markb** · 03-24-2010, 02:35 PM

I have a 12K Chinese polishing stone I got here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2004...ter-Stone.aspx

**raccoonandbrush** · 03-24-2010, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by markb

I have a 12K Chinese polishing stone I got here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2004...ter-Stone.aspx

Wait a minute, are you kidding me? A 12,000 grit stone that's only $35? What's the catch? Is that particular product good? I find it hard to believe that a good quality 12,000 grit stone is only $35. Don't get me wrong, if that stone really is good, I'm definitely going to get it.

**SliceOfLife** · 03-24-2010, 03:15 PM

It's very slow, and IMHO the grit estimation is quite generous. I found the one I owned to give a finish comparable to my Swaty's (Barber hones), which I would guess were 10.5kish. But others prefer their finish to Coti's and I've even seen a few report that they used them after eschers, so results vary.

That said, at that price range about the only finishers available to you are Chinese Naturals and barber hones.

**raccoonandbrush** · 03-24-2010, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by SliceOfLife

It's very slow, and IMHO the grit estimation is quite generous. I found the one I owned to give a finish comparable to my Swaty's (Barber hones), which I would guess were 10.5kish. But others prefer their finish to Coti's and I've even seen a few report that they used them after eschers, so results vary.

That said, at that price range about the only finishers available to you are Chinese Naturals and barber hones.

So you're saying the actual grit of the stone is around 10K? Why do they list it as 12K?

**richmondesi** · 03-24-2010, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by SliceOfLife

You can shave off of 8k comfortably. Then again, I have never heard of someone getting a more fine finishing stone, trying it and saying "Hmm, I can't tell a difference" then selling it and going back to finishing on his 8k.

While this is most likely the case, I know a guy with 60+ hones (including many high quality finishers) who shaves off of 8k quite regularly

**holli4pirating** · 03-24-2010, 04:25 PM

You cannot compare the way two edges off two different hones feel and make a direct comparison of the actual grit sizes in each stone. It is entirely possible to have one hone that is a 10k and another that is a 12k and have the edges feel exactly the same. It is not just the grit size, but also the way the grit breaks down, the way the binder breaks down, the shape of the grit, and the way the grit is arranged in the binder (and probably more factors as well).

I could pick up a natural hone and say the edge of it feels exactly like the edge off, say, a Naniwa 8k, but that does not mean the natural hone's grit size is 8k. It means the natural hone cuts like a Naniwa 8k/gives a edge like a Naniwa 8k.

Not to mention the grit rating of a Swaty is unknown, and different Swatys likely have different grit sizes...

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The "catch" on the C12k is that it is extremely slow.

**raccoonandbrush** · 03-24-2010, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

You cannot compare the way two edges off two different hones feel and make a direct comparison of the actual grit sizes in each stone. It is entirely possible to have one hone that is a 10k and another that is a 12k and have the edges feel exactly the same. It is not just the grit size, but also the way the grit breaks down, the way the binder breaks down, the shape of the grit, and the way the grit is arranged in the binder (and probably more factors as well).

I could pick up a natural hone and say the edge of it feels exactly like the edge off, say, a Naniwa 8k, but that does not mean the natural hone's grit size is 8k. It means the natural hone cuts like a Naniwa 8k/gives a edge like a Naniwa 8k.

Not to mention the grit rating of a Swaty is unknown, and different Swatys likely have different grit sizes...

-----------

The "catch" on the C12k is that it is extremely slow.

I like the way you described the different grits. I didn't know that before.

**SliceOfLife** · 03-24-2010, 05:03 PM

I'm saying that based on the shave quality, I consider the China stone to leave a finish of similar quality to my three-line swaty's which I would estimate to be in the neighborhood of 10k grit based on scratch patterns.