Yet another reason not to buy a Toyota

**s1mp13m4n** · 03-23-2010, 10:06 AM

It is sad but it seems like Toyota rather than fixing the problem would rather install black boxes to monitor us. Why can they not fix their cars? Are people still going to go out and actually buy a Toyota, seriously, after all of this? I think I will stick with my 16 year old 170000 mile Ford. LOL :)
Toyota Black Box

**82R100** · 03-23-2010, 10:17 AM

As things stand, they already have some data recording capability. Considering the risks of litigation, I'm afraid they need to do what they can to protect themselves.

Honestly, Toyota's not the only one out there with black boxes and you can bet the rest of the industry's watching the whole thing unfold with great interest.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with sticking with a proven favorite.

- Chris

**Telecaster52** · 03-23-2010, 10:17 AM

WOO! Top Gear!!! I'd love to hear Clarkson's opinion on the subject

just curious... 170k '94 ford... Taurus or Ranger?

**brianw** · 03-23-2010, 10:26 AM

You think Toyota is the only one? who knows your car may have it as well.... Read these two articles

http://www.slate.com/id/2087207/
or
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/in...blackbox_x.htm

**Jim** · 03-23-2010, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n

It is sad but it seems like Toyota rather than fixing the problem would rather install black boxes to monitor us. Why can they not fix their cars? Are people still going to go out and actually buy a Toyota, seriously, after all of this? I think I will stick with my 16 year old 170000 mile Ford. LOL :)
Toyota Black Box

Are you kidding?
Remember the FORD Pinto?

**Obsessed** · 03-23-2010, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Jim

Are you kidding?
Remember the FORD Pinto?

never heard of it . . .

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0J0rcJTLo[/YOUTUBE]

**Prince** · 03-23-2010, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Obsessed

never heard of it . . .

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0J0rcJTLo[/YOUTUBE]

Classic.

**s1mp13m4n** · 03-23-2010, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Telecaster52

WOO! Top Gear!!! I'd love to hear Clarkson's opinion on the subject

just curious... 170k '94 ford... Taurus or Ranger?

It is a 1994 Ford Escort wagon. My dad has a company car which is a 1998 Taurus that has 320000 miles on it and runs perfect. I have been around Ford vehicles all my life and I know that if you take care of any vehicle it will last a long time. All that hype about a Honda or Toyota being better than a Ford/Chevy is pure garbage. :) That little Escort just keeps on going, yeah it is slow with only 88BHP but it gets 32MPG and is paid for. LOL :)

**Telecaster52** · 03-23-2010, 10:51 AM

All joking aside, the pinto's in my top 5 for my CAD (with an aftermarket fuel tank of course!)

**funkyb** · 03-23-2010, 10:56 AM

You may want to take a look at this: Click Here

A little reported fact about the braking problem with Toyota's is the ages of the drivers who have had problems. FTA:

The median age is 60.5; the majority of drivers are 60 or older; a third are older than 70. And I left out the case of a driver who was the son of a 94-year-old victim rather than guesstimate his age to be 65. That looks suspiciously like the makeup of Audi sudden acceleration cases, and a lot like driver error to me. Color me skeptical. Very very skeptical.

I'm not saying they don't have any problems to fix, but it's interesting that both Toyota and the NTSB have been unable to reproduce any control system failures after repeated attempts to do so. People are quick to assume it's a big company trying to protect their big profits, but there may be at least some component of operator error at play here...

**Telecaster52** · 03-23-2010, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n

It is a 1994 Ford Escort wagon. My dad has a company car which is a 1998 Taurus that has 320000 miles on it and runs perfect. I have been around Ford vehicles all my life and I know that if you take care of any vehicle it will last a long time. All that hype about a Honda or Toyota being better than a Ford/Chevy is pure garbage. :) That little Escort just keeps on going, yeah it is slow with only 88BHP but it gets 32MPG and is paid for. LOL :)

AH, the escort! FWIW i completely forgot it in my question lolz. My family's had at least a dozen of them (mainly GT's

)

I've got a '96 taurus with ~180k and running strong.

**Obsessed** · 03-23-2010, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by funkyb

I'm not saying they don't have any problems to fix, but it's interesting that both Toyota and the NTSB have been unable to reproduce any control system failures after repeated attempts to do so.

I know that's the case with one recent incident involving a Prius, but I'm not sure it's true in general.

Also, and call me cynical, I'm not sure I trust the accuracy and impartiality of "overlawyered.com". I can almost hear the axe being ground from here.

**funkyb** · 03-23-2010, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Obsessed

I know that's the case with one recent incident involving a Prius, but I'm not sure it's true in general.

Also, and call me cynical, I'm not sure I trust the accuracy and impartiality of "overlawyered.com". I can almost hear the axe being ground from here.

The ages can be verified if you're concerned they made that part up...(spreadsheet here).

The post from overlawyered is just the first one that turned up when I google-fu'd to find an article discussing ages for my earlier post. Funny thing is it was one of the lawyers at my company who originally mentioned this factor :-)

There are a lot of other sites discussing this, Just to google a few...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10074/1043035-185.stm
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...as-cars/37448/
http://www.businessinsider.com/a-dee...t-stats-2010-3
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wha...iable-edition/

If age were not a factor, you'd expect this to more closely match the weighted age distribution of toyota drivers (~70% of all Toyota's are sold to the 30-55 year old age group):

**Obsessed** · 03-23-2010, 12:45 PM

I really wasn't concerned with the age part. My main point was that I was under the impression that the inability to recreate the accelerator problem only related to the recent Prius accident. I don't claim to know that for sure, however.

**Uncle Erik** · 03-23-2010, 12:54 PM

Most manufacturers have "black boxes" these days. As for Toyota's quality, I think it speaks for itself. Check Consumer Reports for compilations of non-anecdotal data.

I have an '07 Toyota with 55k miles and zero problems. I'm not concerned about the purported acceleration problems - it's a stick and not terribly difficult to disengage the engine. I will have it paid off in a couple of months and plan to keep it for the long haul.

Fords are alright and I keep an old Mercury Comet around (my first car). The trouble with new Fords is that their transmissions can be dodgy. I'd buy a manual Focus, Fusion or Mustang, but nothing with a slushbox. Shame, because the old C4 and C6 transmissions were some of the best.

**Telecaster52** · 03-23-2010, 12:56 PM

I think the main issue isn't the accelerator problem, it's the lack of emergency driving knowledge and training. Having driven older cars without power-assisted brakes/steering it's not to hard to control the vehicle without, especially at highway speeds. If you have time to call 911 on your cellphone, you have time to put the vehicle in neutral and or turn off the ignition, with ample time/space to slow before a collision.

**bradyarz** · 03-23-2010, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by telecaster52

i think the main issue isn't the accelerator problem, it's the lack of emergency driving knowledge and training. Having driven older cars without power-assisted brakes/steering it's not to hard to control the vehicle without, especially at highway speeds. if you have time to call 911 on your cellphone, you have time to put the vehicle in neutral and or turn off the ignition, with ample time/space to slow before a collision.

+1

**airplanedoc** · 03-23-2010, 01:22 PM

The only reason this is even news is because its Toyota, if this was a GM, Ford, or Chrysler recall, it would have not even made the front page.

FYI your cars already have a black box that records everyting.

**Telecaster52** · 03-23-2010, 01:30 PM

Apparently when the throttle gets stuck the Prius only makes 17mpg
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk&feature=related[/youtube]

**DapperJames** · 03-23-2010, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n

It is sad but it seems like Toyota rather than fixing the problem would rather install black boxes to monitor us. Why can they not fix their cars? Are people still going to go out and actually buy a Toyota, seriously, after all of this? I think I will stick with my 16 year old 170000 mile Ford. LOL :)
Toyota Black Box

If I had to buy a new Toyota or a new Ford, I'd buy the Toyota. American build quality is subpar.