Losing Patience....

[tob1303]

This is very unfortunate as I love all of this...restoring brushes, razors, the scents...everything, but I'm losing patience because the results simply aren't there.

I've been at this for 3 months and I know that isn't a very long time...but I have yet to have a shave where I didn't have a rash of red bumps on my neck the next day....hasn't happened once.

I can't imagine my lather could be any better...i've tried everything many times...creams, soaps, uber, super, more water, less water and...anything at all, changed one at a time...nothing changes as far as result of the shave...so I can only assume I'm doing it right when I feel it's yogurty and slick.

I can't use any less pressure...if I do, I won't be touching my face.

I can't make my angle any shallower (I've also tried steeper)...if I do, I'll simply be rubbing lather into my face with the head of the HD.

I've used Merkurs, Derby's, Red Personna's, Lord Platinums, Wilkinson Sword, KAI....always...red bumps.

I only do two passes...I started doing 1 WTG....red bumps...so now I try WTG and an XTG...red bumps. I know my beard grain like the back of my hand after a lot of study. Sometimes they have white-heads....so I got some rubbing alcohol and have been sterilizing my blades before use...no difference.

I try with pre-shave oil...red bumps...without...red bumps. I try alum block...red bumps....no alum block...red bumps.

I stuck with the same kit for weeks...always red bumps. I moved one thing at a time....red bumps. I changed everything...red bumps.

They are not ingrowns...I have my gf inspect them to make sure...I don't know what they are.

Right after the shave, most times it looks perfect....Friday night I thought I had my best shave yet....no burn after, my neck was not red at all immediately after, perfectly clear...and it was pretty close for only a two passer with no ATG....by 3 oclock yesterday....red bumps on my neck on the ride side and on the very lower left side. I simply can't escape them.

It is very, very discouraging....it seems no matter what I do, I always have red bumps on my neck the next day. It's getting to the point where I think this is impossible. I have invested a lot of time into this because I enjoy the entiretly of it...but soon enough (I'm a student) I'm going to need to look presentable...and can't have these red bumps all over my neck...not to mention I have to wait days in between shaves so that they can heal.

I really don't know what to do next. But I think unfortunately I'm running out of patience.

[wdwrx]

Boy, that's unfortunate.
I too am still stuggling with razor rash, but I sure have noticed that my skin condition is improving, especially as I get better at my technique..
The only suggestion I can come up with(besides seeing a dermatologist) might be to try switching to a straight..... though if you are already really discouraged, the new learning curve might be a challenge.
I'm sure more experienced members will chime in shortly...

[JoshD]

What type of AS are you using?

Josh

[vertigo12314]

Sharp blades. I've had similar problems but now that I've gotten through many of my blades in the sampler I found Feathers, Iridiums and Sharks are much better. If I use duller blades I get dragging/ingrown hairs/razor burn. Also my hairs are getting tougher from the shaving and now I find I need these sharp blades or else I'll rip my face.

Also I found that some shaving soaps aren't good for hard water but some are okay (Olivia WM triple milled). Creams overall are faster for lathering and are a little slicker. You have to also prep constantly during the shave. If anything dries up you need to lather it up once again before another stroke (especially the neck). I'm improving on my neck more now that I use sharper blades and a better angle. I also don't shave too close on my adam's apple because there is no flat surface and I find that it's good enough to get a DFS in the neck and BBS elsewhere.

[tob1303]

What type of AS are you using?

Josh

I've tried a lot there as well. I've used only AS, only ASB and both. My AS's nclude Pinaud clubman/vanilla/bay rum, Proraso.

My ASB's include Proraso Pre/Post, Pre De Provence, L'Occitane, C and E Nomad, Saint Charles AS Milk, Nivea, Brut, GFT Skin Food.

[JoshD]

have you tried the hypo-allergenic line from the art of shaving?

Very nice products, I just bought one of their soap cakes this week and find it is nice.

Josh

[tob1303]

I've though about all of this. I don't have particularly hard water here in NYC...and to fight that I've also tried using Glycerol in my lather.

I have not moved on to my feather and iridiums yet....I guess I thought Red Personna's were pretty sharp (could easily be wrong) so I thought I had tried sharp blades....I guess I'll move on to my feathers and see how that goes.

Oddly enough my adams apple isn't a problem...I too tread lightly there, but that hasn't been the problem....it's the area half an inch to the right of the adams apple and then arcing downwards towards the bottom right corner of my neck that rashes up...just don't get it. It's a relatively flat surface with a very definitive direction of the beard.

Sharp blades. I've had similar problems but now that I've gotten through many of my blades in the sampler I found Feathers, Iridiums and Sharks are much better. If I use duller blades I get dragging/ingrown hairs/razor burn. Also my hairs are getting tougher from the shaving and now I find I need these sharp blades or else I'll rip my face.

Also I found that some shaving soaps aren't good for hard water but some are okay (Olivia WM triple milled). Creams overall are faster for lathering and are a little slicker. You have to also prep constantly during the shave. If anything dries up you need to lather it up once again before another stroke (especially the neck). I'm improving on my neck more now that I use sharper blades and a better angle. I also don't shave too close on my adam's apple because there is no flat surface and I find that it's good enough to get a DFS in the neck and BBS elsewhere.

[vertigo12314]

I've though about all of this. I don't have particularly hard water here in NYC...and to fight that I've also tried using Glycerol in my lather.

I have not moved on to my feather and iridiums yet....I guess I thought Red Personna's were pretty sharp (could easily be wrong) so I thought I had tried sharp blades....I guess I'll move on to my feathers and see how that goes.

Just so you know. I find feathers to be the least forgiving, iridiums more forgiving, and sharks more forgiving. In fact I would tell most people to start with sharks when they are getting their technique down and graduate up (if they want to). I'm really liking the Iridiums right now. They used to eat me up but now that I'm shaving with more skill and care it's a great experience. Feathers create good results but I'm bleeding a little more. I still have to get my Feather PhD.

Good luck!

[SiBurning]

What were you doing 4 months ago?

[tob1303]

What were you doing 4 months ago?

Using a beard and mustache trimmer, getting my very blonde hair down as low as possible...it can become invisible once short enough....and having clear undamaged skin. But I thought to myself, once a professional, that probably isn't good enough. I always had trouble with electrics and cartridges...but not this much trouble....I figured that these problems would eventually go away with the DE and I'd have far superior results than the other two...I still hope thats the case. I'm not ready to give up, but I'm closer than I was a month ago.

[JoshD]

also try reapplying your AS about an hour or so after you shave.

Just an idea, I have tried that this past week and found my face to have less redness. Don't know if that was it, or something else I did.

But it is worth a try.


Also, I too had trouble when I graduated to sharper blades. I was just using some Gillette blades, then I got some Merkurs. WOW! You have to be very careful.

Josh.

[SiBurning]

Not quite the kind of answer I was hoping for...

Maybe you should take a week off. Seems like the biggest problem you have going forward are all the negative waves. You might have a long road to get through it, and a fresh start with an open mind and a positive "can do" attitude is better than the "can't do" your original post seems to be full of.

There's a bunch of things I can think of, such as maybe you need to use a special wash before and after to get rid of any bacteria, maybe see a dermatologist, although that's helped very few people here. Could also be sensitive skin, or a tendency for ingrowns. Also, as you improve, even though you think your touch can't get any lighter, you reach these moments where you realize just how heavy your previous touch was. Then there's different razors, like there's a big difference between Merkurs and Gillettes. Plus a dozen other things. You'll probably need to try a whole bunch of things that others with similar issues have gone through. It might even take some time just to identify what the problem is, and only then move to a solution.

[Verderer]

I would carefully re-check which way the hair grows in the problem area. Because I had similar trouble, until I realised that there is an area immediatly below and to the both sides of my adam's apple, where the hair grows exactly to the opposite direction compared with the direction slightly above it, or elsewhere on my neck.

I have in fact shaven this area against the grain without realising that, until very recently. I now pay attention to this tiny detail, and it improved my results tremendously.

Just saying there might be some unexpected variation in the direction? If it's hard to say for certain, let the beard grow for a few days to get a more definite view.

[tob1303]

The only thing I have no really tried is the different razor...that might be next, after the sharper blades.

I also might start trying using my nivea facewash prior to shave.

Prior to that last shave I discussed earlier I took 2 weeks off...mostly to allow myself to heal...but also to refresh.

I am going to attempt to see a dermatologist soon.

Thanks for your help everyone.

Not quite the kind of answer I was hoping for...

Maybe you should take a week off. Seems like the biggest problem you have going forward are all the negative waves. You might have a long road to get through it, and a fresh start with an open mind and a positive "can do" attitude is better than the "can't do" your original post seems to be full of.

There's a bunch of things I can think of, such as maybe you need to use a special wash before and after to get rid of any bacteria, maybe see a dermatologist, although that's helped very few people here. Could also be sensitive skin, or a tendency for ingrowns. Also, as you improve, even though you think your touch can't get any lighter, you reach these moments where you realize just how heavy your previous touch was. Then there's different razors, like there's a big difference between Merkurs and Gillettes. Plus a dozen other things. You'll probably need to try a whole bunch of things that others with similar issues have gone through. It might even take some time just to identify what the problem is, and only then move to a solution.

[sodajerk]

Man, I really hate this! ( This bothered me and I did some reading. You probably have, too, but if you haven't, Google "barber's rash." Basically, according to what I've read, it is hair that is trying to become ingrown and irritating the skin, and in some cases becoming in infected. The bumps go away after the hair ends are above the skin.

I have no experience with this but here are some things I ran across.
Shower before shaving and keep the beard wet throughout the shave. The cut hairs have softer edges when cut wet.
Use a less aggressive razor or shave less aggressively (no XTG).
Do not use aftershaves or balms so you can avoid clogged pores. Try witch hazel.
To help ensure the hairs come through the skin, rub the problem areas in a circular motion with your finger, or, as one site said, a soft bristled toothbrush.

Again, read what you can and keep us posted. Don't give up yet!

[Uncle Erik]

Have you thought about visiting a dermatologist? He or she might be able to tell you what's going on and give good suggestions.

[shavervinnie]

You need to try a 50's Gillette Superspeed or a 40's Gillette Tech. I think if you combined a sharp but forgiving blade like a Shark Chromium with a mild razor, and excellent technique, you'll see better results. Use a nice, mild cream like Pre de Provence or Edwin Jagger. Finish up with hefty splashes of witch hazel , let dry a few minutes, then use a sensitive skin aftershave balm like Nivea. Just the basics, nothing fancy. Hang in there, it sounds like you haven't hit on the right combination of hardware, software, and technique. Could be too much of a mix of fancy products. I know AD's are fun and sometimes unavoidable, but you've got to find the basics of what will work for you. Too much varied use in all of the available options can be a negative. I can't imagine the set-up I mentioned not giving you good results if you hang with it a while. Best of luck with improved results.

[jpkunst]

I always had trouble with electrics and cartridges...but not this much trouble.

Probably not the answer that the B&B orthodoxy would like to hear, but it seems to me that if you still have this much trouble after 3 months a DE is not right for you and you would be better off using cartridges or electrics.

[tob1303]

Here's what I'm going to do....

First things first...I have all the gear to give method a try, I'm gonna give it a shot just once...which I've been dying to do.

Then I'm gonna come back and hit everything with a feather blade....see if that does anything to help.

If that doesn't help, I'm gonna put my HD down and pickup my tech and then perhaps my parker...and give those a try.

If those don't work...I'm gonna try not using a balm or aftershave at all and stick to the witch hazel alone...which I do use now...but not exclusively....see if that works.

I also just ordered a hypoallergenic (or however that is spelled) cream from AOS...that comes with a sample of their night-time in grown hair cream...I'll give that a shot too.

All the while I'm gonna continue the good prep, and afterwards I'm gonna continue using my lice comb and possibly a toothbrush to try and dig things out before my pore tighten over them. Also, gonna try to hit a dermatologist....I really do like this stuff too much to give up.

I likely wouldn't go back to electrics and cartridges...I would likely just forever be the guy with a perpetual 5 O'clock shadow that my beard trimmer leaves.

[ShaveAddict]

One thing you need to understand also is that shaving for most peoples are rarely perfect.
What i mean is that even if you have a perfect technique and prep you can end up whit an ingrown hair or a bit of razor burn.
And btw it's been 8 months now that i use DE razors for shaving, but when i was at 3 months i was almost in the same situation as you , having problem.
I would say continue, practice will make it better.