General Watch Questions and Comments

Since there's been lots of talk about watches on the boards lately and I love watches, especially those that are vintage pre-Swatch group takeover, I have a comment and a few questions.

1. I realize that Swatch saved several companies but that doesn't mean that I have to like them.
2. I'm I the only person that only wants to buy watches that are vintage, pre-Swatch, or not in the Swatch Group?
3. I love the idea of each manufacturer making their own movements, rather than plugging in an ETA. Otherwise, what seperates a Blancpain or Glashutte from a Tissot or Longines?
4. Anyone know where I can find a list of watch companies that still manufacturer their own movements?
5. Anyone here collect vintage watches? I really like the uniqueness of vintage watches.
6. I have a couple of vintage 1959 & 1960 Omega Seamasters and they're great watches, can someone recommend a good place to get them serviced?
7. For those that collect vintage watches, what are your thoughts on having the dial refinished or buying a vintage with a refinished dial?
8. Back in the day, did a majority of manufacturers paint or glue numbers on the dial? Case in point, I know that the watch below has had it's dial refinished but how do I know how close it is to the original?

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Alot of questions there.

Swatch is just a name. The companies they own are some of the most respected in the industry and are pretty much independent.

Most people just buy what they want and buy new. You are of a very small select group.

You are correct. Most watchmakers buy parts and assemble them. Many assemble and source parts in Asia. For a watch to say Swiss made very little of it has to be from Switzerland. Really nothing separates brands in the mvmt department save a few modifications here and there. There are even companies who specialize in higher end movmts for those companies.

I don't know of any list of watch companies who are a manufacture. The ones I know of would be Rolex, Patek, Seiko, Citizen and a few other high end brands. I'm sure someone will come along with other companies there are more but the ones I mentioned probably account for well over 90% of the Manufacture watches.

Many here collect vintage. I do mostly Seiko vintage higher end and American pocketwatches.

Getting any vintage mechanical watch serviced is an increasing problem. There are few really competent watchmakers left. You could return it to Omega in Switzerland otherwise you need to find a place you can trust.

Personally if a dial is in bad shape I pass it buy. Most refinished dials I have seen aren't so great and to me it changes the watch.

Watch dials either have numbers painted or embossed or engraved or applied. Its always been that way. The higher the price the better the job and method.

Usually if you look at the dial with a 10x loupe you can tell if its original but not always.

Cuttingboard said:

Since there's been lots of talk about watches on the boards lately and I love watches, especially those that are vintage pre-Swatch group takeover, I have a comment and a few questions.

1. I realize that Swatch saved several companies but that doesn't mean that I have to like them.

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True. No law against disliking whatever you want to dislike.

2. I'm I the only person that only wants to buy watches that are vintage, pre-Swatch, or not in the Swatch Group?

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Probably not, but I don't know.

3. I love the idea of each manufacturer making their own movements, rather than plugging in an ETA. Otherwise, what seperates a Blancpain or Glashutte from a Tissot or Longines?

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Not sure that the movement is all there is to a watch, but I get your point.

4. Anyone know where I can find a list of watch companies that still manufacturer their own movements?

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Dunno.

5. Anyone here collect vintage watches? I really like the uniqueness of vintage watches.

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I love 'em, too. I only have three, so it's not much of a "collection," though. I'm wearing one today that I bought from Andrew. IMO there is nothing like a beautiful vintage watch.

6. I have a couple of vintage 1959 & 1960 Omega Seamasters and they're great watches, can someone recommend a good place to get them serviced?

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This is a huge problem, and servicing is quite expensive. I am in search of a local person.

7. For those that collect vintage watches, what are your thoughts on having the dial refinished or buying a vintage with a refinished dial?

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This is kind of like the question about replating old razors. Some vintage watches look absolutely great with the patina of the dial, whereas others look terrible. I am not against refinishing a watch, especially if it's a watch I'm going to wear and the dial is in bad shape.

8. Back in the day, did a majority of manufacturers paint or glue numbers on the dial? Case in point, I know that the watch below has had it's dial refinished but how do I know how close it is to the original?

View attachment 89650

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don't know the answer, but I know that that is a gorgeous watch. I would be proud to own and wear it. Let me know if you want to get rid of it.

I beleive a few of the russian mfg make there own movements. Vostok and Poljot come to mind.

http://www.m-watches.com/catalog/index.php

If you haven't already, I'd suggest checking out some watch-related discussion forums.

Timezone.com is the oldest and best known of these. They have lots of sub-forums related to individual watch manufacturers, vintage watches and a general discussion "Public Forum." There's a wealth of watch information there. It's pretty much the go-to site for anyone interested in wrist watches.

Another good site is Watchuseek.com. They're not as "deep" but they're very welcoming to newbies to the watch world. They also have a lot of sub-forums as well.

btw, you should be aware that Omega and Tissot are the founding members of the swatch group, a product of the 70´s quartz revolution that buried 90% of the swiss watch makers by buriing them under a influx of cheap japanese quartz watches from casio, seiko and citizen, the swiss were manufacturing high price watches that mantained a 10-15 second a day accuracy, and suddendly the japanese come with watches which cost 1/4 of the price and provide a 1-2 second a day accuracy which is beyond swiss COSC ceritification, they basicly slaughtered the swiss on low and midrange retail relegating the mechanical watch to a luxery item as the quartz watch would always beat it when it came to tool watches or those seeking accuracy,

the Swatch we know as in "cheap plasticy low quality quartz watches for kids" were actually a push by the swiss watch industry to reconquer the low end from the japanese by using a mixture of fashion, swiss image and gurrila marketing to make swiss watches cool again, but the original swatch group was a conglomerate of swiss watch makers uniting to suvive the japanese quartz assult,

Cuttingboard said:

1. I realize that Swatch saved several companies but that doesn't mean that I have to like them.

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I completely agree. While some companies that are owned by Swatch, such as Blancpain and Bregeut, make great watches, they are still owned by Swatch. I guess it is like the Fiat/Ferrari, VW/Porsche, or even Mercedes/Maybach thing.

Cuttingboard said:

2. I'm I the only person that only wants to buy watches that are vintage, pre-Swatch, or not in the Swatch Group?

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See above.

Cuttingboard said:

3. I love the idea of each manufacturer making their own movements, rather than plugging in an ETA. Otherwise, what seperates a Blancpain or Glashutte from a Tissot or Longines?

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Not to sound pompous, but I would never even consider an ETA movement. I think that a company should make or assemble their own movements. I completely agree with the comment. Why purchase a $5,000 watch when they do not even make their own movement?

Cuttingboard said:

4. Anyone know where I can find a list of watch companies that still manufacturer their own movements?

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Many still do. A. Lange & Söhne, Patek Philippe, and Vacheron Constantin are three that come to mind. Those three are probably the best three too (in my opinion in that exact order). Rolex makes their own too, but they are not in the same league as the previous three.

Cuttingboard said:

5. Anyone here collect vintage watches? I really like the uniqueness of vintage watches.

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I do not, but if I did I would collect watches from companies that service them for life, such as Patek Philippe.

Cuttingboard said:

6. I have a couple of vintage 1959 & 1960 Omega Seamasters and they're great watches, can someone recommend a good place to get them serviced?

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Look no further.

A lot of relatively inexpensive watch brands do just drop in unfinished ETA movements, but a lot of brands - Omega and IWC for instance - use ETA ebauches as a basis for their watches but add a lot of finishing and in-house parts and/or mechanisms to the basic ebauche. IWC is especially known for that.

mretzloff said:

Not to sound pompous, but I would never even consider an ETA movement. I think that a company should make or assemble their own movements. I completely agree with the comment. Why purchase a $5,000 watch when they do not even make their own movement?

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