New way to sharpen straight razors?

I think I'm on to something! After reviewing the honing technique of Murray Carter, a prominant knife maker, I applied his knife sharpening technique to the straight razor. Preliminary results? INCREDIBLE! If you are not familiar with his technique, search youtube for "scary sharp". Basically the difference is to strop the razor on the fine hone. In other words, you move the edge away from the hone instead of into the edge. So far, after two razors, I don't even use paste anymore. This was my process. Note: when stropping on the hone, use NO pressure.

1. set the bevel on the 1000 grit.
2. After bevel is set, strop on the 1000 grit for 5 passes.
3. Strop on the 4000 grit for 5 passes.
4. Strop on the fine hone (in my case an Escher) 20 passes.
5. Test razor, and do additional passes on the fine hone if needed.
5. Strop on leather.

Razor came out incredibly sharp, similar to stropping on .25 diamond paste. I think some experimentation is needed and would like to hear the results of others. This is incredible!

question is how cost effective this is.
3m film is expensive and I am not sure how many times can you reuse each sheet

Verhoeven looked at this in his Knife Sharpening Experiments paper, and found that honing with the edge trailing damages the edge much more than honing with the edge leading. For a knife it's probably not a big deal, but razors aren't as forgiving. There's a reason that experienced razor honers hone with the edge leading, and it isn't because it's never occurred to us to try it the other way.

That said, if it works for you then great. Other new guys have done this same thing to help them get over the hump in the honing learning curve. Just be aware that you may want to revisit the edge-forward concept from time to time as your skills improve, because it is capable of delivering better results than you are currently getting.

mparker762 said:

Verhoeven looked at this in his Knife Sharpening Experiments paper, and found that honing with the edge trailing damages the edge much more than honing with the edge leading. For a knife it's probably not a big deal, but razors aren't as forgiving. There's a reason that experienced razor honers hone with the edge leading, and it isn't because it's never occurred to us to try it the other way.

That said, if it works for you then great. Other new guys have done this same thing to help them get over the hump in the honing learning curve. Just be aware that you may want to revisit the edge-forward concept from time to time as your skills improve, because it is capable of delivering better results than you are currently getting.

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I have never heard of knife being sharpened with edge trailing, its a recipe for rounding the edge. trailing edge is used only for stropping AFAIK.

I'm sure that it works well. But you'll pay the price in edge longevity. If you create the edge mostly in an edge trailing fashion, the very tip of that edge will consist of bur-like steel, with poor hardness and structural strength.
I've experimented with such an approach, and on my beard, the edges I got were already dulling by the end of the second pass.

I still use edge trailing strokes occasionally, but only for the final 20 laps or so while finishing (on a Coticule), whenever I feel the razor could gain that last hint of extra keenness. (I rely on the way a hanging hair pops, to know where I am with that keenness, while finishing a razor). I don't use pastes. Sometimes those few edge trailing laps get me where I want, sometimes it needs a bit more pressure, sometimes lighter than light laps, sometimes lather on the Coticule, sometimes one swipe with a slurry stone. Whatever. But I always push the edge as far as possible with an edge leading approach, before anything else.

Bart.

mparker762 said:

Verhoeven looked at this in his Knife Sharpening Experiments paper, and found that honing with the edge trailing damages the edge much more than honing with the edge leading. For a knife it's probably not a big deal, but razors aren't as forgiving. There's a reason that experienced razor honers hone with the edge leading, and it isn't because it's never occurred to us to try it the other way.

That said, if it works for you then great. Other new guys have done this same thing to help them get over the hump in the honing learning curve. Just be aware that you may want to revisit the edge-forward concept from time to time as your skills improve, because it is capable of delivering better results than you are currently getting.

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Thanks for the reference to the experiment paper. Looks like a very interesting read. I've been straight razor shaving for a number of years now, and have only honed using traditional methods with very good results. I love a VERY sharp razor, but have only been able to get a final edge that meets my satisfaction by final polishing on .25 diamond paste. I just started experimenting just to see if I could get the same edge on a hone, and what I discovered was that i could. I don't think I'll continue stroping off of the 1000k (just an experiment), but reserve the stroping for the final polish that I used to do with the paste. Weather I strop on paste for 20 passes, or on the hone for 20, I don't see any difference when observing the edge thru a 100x microscope.

dagaines said:

Weather I strop on paste for 20 passes, or on the hone for 20, I don't see any difference when observing the edge thru a 100x microscope.

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That's too low of a resolution to see the sorts of edges we're dealing with. Verhoeven was using an electron microscope at 3,000x-10,000x, which is good enough to actually measure the distance across the cutting edge to hundredth's of a micron. This allowed him to quantify the limits to the sharpness achievable when honing using a stropping motion vs honing using an edge-leading motion on the same stone.

I don't want to sound critical here but I think the key here is when you say you can only get an edge you like by using .25 diamond. I think your honing skills need some work because most people are able to get the edge they want using traditional hones and techniques.

dagaines said:

Weather I strop on paste for 20 passes, or on the hone for 20, I don't see any difference when observing the edge thru a 100x microscope.

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You won't see the differences because optical microscopes lack resolution to show that kind of difference.
I tend to agree that 20 laps on a hone won't be any more adverse effect than 20 laps on a pasted strop, with regards to the issues introduced by an edge trailing method. Nonetheless, there is the difference that the pasted strop will fold around the edge a bit. Because of that, it delivers most of its abrasive action at the very tip of the edge. The hone spreads its action evenly across the full bevel width. Par consequence, stropping on a hone won't be as effective in boosting keenness than stropping on a surface with some give.

If stropping on the hone gives you results you like, I'd say: go for it. Trying to find the minimum amount of laps and hones on which you do it, in order to get the desired results sounds like a wise course of action.

Kind regards,
Bart.