First pass is the toughest?

First, a progress update: I finally figured out what "no pressure" really means and eliminated most of the previous razor burn I had on my neck. I had thought blade angle was more of the problem, but I guess what I previously thought of as "no pressure" was indeed some -- and in fact too much -- pressure.

And on to my questions:
1.) I've noticed that the first pass, especially if I miss a day or two of shaving, is significantly different than subsequent ones. Even with a fresh blade, I feel like I'm getting pulling and wonder what's going on. This tends to also result in a relatively patchy pass. This is also after a full barbershop/"Kyle" prep. Is this normal?

2.) I had mentioned in a previous post that I had a fair amount of hair left behind, even after 3 passes (2 WTG and 1 XTG). I had presumed that building up enough skill to go ATG like I used to with cartridges would resolve this. Well, tonight the stars aligned where I had some good lather left and no irritation on my normal three passes, so I opted for an ATG on my face. Two things happened: the first is that by the time I got to my second half of my face, I was getting pretty bad blade skipping with my 1-shave-old Personna Super Platinum blade, and the second is that I still had more hair remaining than my old 2-pass (WTG, ATG) with my old M3. Would it be normal to have to do multiple ATG passes? Or could there be something up with my blade/lather/technique, with the skipping being a sign?

I congratulate you on resolving the problem of pressure. I could be wrong, but I suspect that now you are having problems with blade angle. I think this because of the skipping, and because of the lack of beard reduction. Perhaps you made your angle too shallow in order to fix the razor burn, and now you aren't cutting much of anything?

I'd agree with mblakele... angle is now most likely your problem. I find the same thing too when I start using a razor I haven't touched in a while.... takes a while to figure out the angle. Best advice is to start with the blade parallel to your skin, then slowly lower the angle until it starts to cut hair. Just remember to not add pressure.... it can be a vicious circle!

Multiple ATG passes tend to result in irritation for me, although I can get away with some touch-up if I'm careful, but I don't try often. Usually, if there's any stubble after three passes, I just leave it for tomorrow. In my experience, trying to force a BBS isn't worth the risk.

SDraconis said:

And on to my questions:
1.) I've noticed that the first pass, especially if I miss a day or two of shaving, is significantly different than subsequent ones. Even with a fresh blade, I feel like I'm getting pulling and wonder what's going on. This tends to also result in a relatively patchy pass. This is also after a full barbershop/"Kyle" prep. Is this normal?

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I have the same with some of the blades I have tried; is for me a sign the blade is not sharp enough for my beard. First pass should be smooth, even tho it is the hardest part.

Wil Dorenbos said:

I have the same with some of the blades I have tried; is for me a sign the blade is not sharp enough for my beard. First pass should be smooth, even tho it is the hardest part.

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Fully agreed; unless your angle is really off, first pass is or should be the easiest one especially when you have skipped a day or two.

When you are using a blade that isn't right for you getting your technique down will be impossible too.

talibeard said:

Fully agreed; unless your angle is really off, first pass is or should be the easiest one especially when you have skipped a day or two.

When you are using a blade that isn't right for you getting your technique down will be impossible too.

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This has been the case with each blade brand I have tried, though. So far Dorco, Derby, and Personna Super Platinum. First pass is like it's having trouble getting through hair, and subsequent passes glide along better. First pass also end up with messier lather tracks, where later passes are cleaner.

my beard causes most blades to get bogged down in the denser sections, and yes worst on the first pass. my advice is to ensure you have a sharp blade (if using DE - gillette 7 o'clock Russian green or yellow) and resist the temptation to make too many strokes across the same bit of skin once there is no more lather (i keep needing to learn this one myself).

.

SDraconis said:

This has been the case with each blade brand I have tried, though. So far Dorco, Derby, and Personna Super Platinum. First pass is like it's having trouble getting through hair, and subsequent passes glide along better. First pass also end up with messier lather tracks, where later passes are cleaner.

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For me those blades are not really sharp. Derby is not good for me, Dorco and Personna are just ok. I would try a sharper blade, like Astra, Rapira or Shark (Feather?) and see if that works better for you.

SDraconis said:

This has been the case with each blade brand I have tried, though. So far Dorco, Derby, and Personna Super Platinum. First pass is like it's having trouble getting through hair, and subsequent passes glide along better. First pass also end up with messier lather tracks, where later passes are cleaner.

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I wouldn't rate Dorco and Derby as very sharp and Personna is a lot better for me but still just doing the job. A large sampler pack would be the thing to get IMO.

The messier lather tracks however can meen a lot of tugging but also no consistant angle. You might try to shave more slowly and with shorter strokes.
This will give you the time to keep your angle more constant and the blade the time to cut properly; when I am using brands that are not sharp enough it helps to go slow.

SDraconis said:

And on to my questions:
1.) I've noticed that the first pass, especially if I miss a day or two of shaving, is significantly different than subsequent ones. Even with a fresh blade, I feel like I'm getting pulling and wonder what's going on. This tends to also result in a relatively patchy pass. This is also after a full barbershop/"Kyle" prep. Is this normal?

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Yes, pretty much. Go light, no pressure on the first pass. The objective is beard reduction, with each subsequent pass reducing further till you are clean shaven.

Guys, I know I'm going to get burned at the stake for this but...it is possible to use too little pressure on the first pass and I'm wondering if that's part of what's happening here.

When I started, I read so much "NO PRESSURE" advice that I literally held the razor so light that it wouldn't stay against my face and in fact fell out of my hands a handful of times (pun quite intended). I think of this when I read about blades skipping on the first pass...

I thought I was just not cut out for DEs, but when I started actually holding the darn blade on my face everything began working just fine. I agree 100% that too much pressure is a bad-bad thing, and it's a fine line, but it's possible to go too far in the other direction too.

At least for me, the right pressure depends very much on the blade. My DORCO-ST301s are not super sharp so they tend to require a bit more pressure than say, my Gillette yellows which cut like butter (including your face), however, the DORCOs are so darn smooth they are forgiving enough to allow that extra pressure without causing problems.

*runs away before I get caught*

Hmmm too little pressure . . . could be. I was thinking that perhaps the blade was being clogged with 3 day old whiskers? Otherwise I'd have to go with mblakele's blade angle not being high enough.

I've found that by holding my Superspeed as far away from the head as possible, the weight of the razor creates its own pressure. Not very much. Just a teensy bit.

Agreed with most of the responders here... the reason you're getting skipping, most likely, on your ATG pass is that the beard was not properly reduced enough when you got to that point. The most likely culprit in that case is your previous passes had a bad angle.

+1 to the comments about your blade choice. If my blade is not sharp enough I get skipping. I would try one of the sharper blades like 7'oclock yellows, super iridium, bluebirds, or Feather and see if it persists.

Allright, I'll try doing more blade angle adjustments. The only blade packs I have left that I haven't tried yet are Crystal and Personna Red. I guess the Red pack would be the sharper of the two until I can get more blades in?

I should mention that for the first pass pulling, it's pretty much the same sensation as the first pass on a cartridge razor after a few days of growth. With a cartridge razor, however, I could apply a little pressure and end up with cleaner strokes and an even pass (at the expense of having enough irritation after a second pass to put off shaving for a few days).

I wish I could practice shaving more often. When learning new things, I'm used to sort of drilling til I get it right. It's a bit tricky to have to practice something when having to wait 24 hours between each attempt. I never thought I'd be saying "I wish I could shave more often" .

mblakele said:

I congratulate you on resolving the problem of pressure. I could be wrong, but I suspect that now you are having problems with blade angle. I think this because of the skipping, and because of the lack of beard reduction. Perhaps you made your angle too shallow in order to fix the razor burn, and now your aren't cutting much of anything?

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That was exactly what I thought when I read your post. It sounds like the angle is off. Generally, by the second pass I can barely feel any stubble left and the blade doesn't skip.

To clarify my earlier post - I'm not suggesting adding pressure, just saying that for myself, I had read the all-caps comment "NO PRESSURE" so frequently that I actually went too far with it. I wasn't holding the razor firmly, simply because I was too scared that using any effort at all to keep the blade angled properly against my face would lead to me carving holes in my skin.

My lack of control over the razor due to a too-loose grip and made the blade skip all over on the first WTG pass, made XTG and ATG passes impossible, and lead to all sorts of burn because I was taking 5-6 passes WTG just to get to an even stubble, and it was taking 40 mins.

It was only when I firmed up my grip, and stopped worrying about mopping up pools of blood that I learned what everyone really means by NO PRESSURE. It made more sense in a few week's time as I got my directions down and angles right. Now I get consistent DFS to BBS in 3 passes without irritation and in under 15 mins.

I agree no pressure is important, but until I gained experience I was applying that lesson incorrectly.

funkyb said:

to clarify my earlier post - i'm not suggesting adding pressure, just saying that for myself, i had read the all-caps comment "no pressure" so frequently that i actually went too far with it. I wasn't holding the razor firmly, simply because i was too scared that using any effort at all to keep the blade angled properly against my face would lead to me carving holes in my skin.

My lack of control over the razor due to a too-loose grip and made the blade skip all over on the first wtg pass, made xtg and atg passes impossible, and lead to all sorts of burn because i was taking 5-6 passes wtg just to get to an even stubble, and it was taking 40 mins.

It was only when i firmed up my grip, and stopped worrying about mopping up pools of blood that i learned what everyone really means by no pressure. It made more sense in a few week's time as i got my directions down and angles right. Now i get consistent dfs to bbs in 3 passes without irritation and in under 15 mins.

I agree no pressure is important, but until i gained experience i was applying that lesson incorrectly.

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+1