Increasingly annoyed with coffee maker; grinder and french press?

gurana · Dec 15, 2009

First of all, I do kind of like my coffee maker, but it can be somewhat annoying at times...

It is a cuisinart 10 cup grind and brew thermal auto drip. It's got a built-in blade grinder. It's nice to be able to set up some whole beans at night and have them freshly ground automatically before I wake up. Thing is, it's a pain to clean out, which has to be done prior to each use. Not such a huge deal for the most part, but it sucks when I'm making consecutive pots.

It comes down to the grinding mechanism. Water vapor gets in there, so you can't simply wipe the old beans out, they have to be washed and then dried because you can't put a wet grinder in the machine. Because it is a decent auto drip, and I dig the thermal carafe, I'm not abandoning it, but I think I'll just turn the grinder off and just grind them myself...

That said, I'm really looking for a grinder. A not-too-expensive hand grinder would be cool, but an electric is worth looking at as well. I'm combing this forum for ideas, but suggestions are always welcome. With an external grinder, using this coffee maker shouldn't be such a hassle.

While I'm at it, I'm also going to get a french press. From what I can tell, they're pretty straightforward. I just need to decide on size and also if I also want thermal for this. My guess is that since you're not really supposed to let the coffee sit in the carafe for too long (20 minutes?) having a thermal carafe on your french press might not be a very useful feature. Still, any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

WhosYerBob · Dec 16, 2009

I use a hand mill from Sweet Maria's: http://sweetmarias.com/prod.zas.php

I make espresso every morning and find the Zassenhaus to be perfect for my grinding needs.

Jasonian · Dec 16, 2009

Let's start with this.

What is your budget goal for this set up? Like most things, you get what you pay for.

danek · Dec 16, 2009

Over time I've decided that a quality grinder is an absolute must. I own several coffee making devices (press, Moka, vac pot, drip - at the office) but only one grinder.

I graduated from a whirly blade to a $40 "burr"; it was a joke - waaaay too much dust and I think the motor spun at Indy car RPMs. I gave it to Goodwill and spent $100 on a a Baratza Maestro burr grinder; it won't grind fine enough for espresso, but for coffee I love it. It is simple and straightforward; a dial to adjust fineness and an on/off switch; that's all. I think this machine is about the cheapest, entry-level good grinder out there.

Since you aren't going to spend much money of a French press, splurge on a good grinder. Once you start using the press, I bet you'll find someone to give your old coffee machine to. The grinder will take up about 1/4 of the counter space that coffee maker did, and a simple, easy, and cheap press will give you much better coffee.

gurana · Dec 16, 2009

Jasonian said:
Let's start with this.

What is your budget goal for this set up? Like most things, you get what you pay for.

$150 is my budget. The Baratza Maestro someone mentioned looks pretty appealing to me.

Jasonian · Dec 16, 2009

gurana said:
$150 is my budget. The Baratza Maestro someone mentioned looks pretty appealing to me.

Do this, but I'd look for a refurbished Virtuoso or Maestro Plus instead. (they're basically the same, but a bit more heavy duty)

If you do go refurbished, you can probably swing the $40 for a French Press and still come close to your budget.

gurana · Dec 16, 2009

Jasonian said:
Do this, but I'd look for a refurbished Virtuoso or Maestro Plus instead. (they're basically the same, but a bit more heavy duty)

If you do go refurbished, you can probably swing the $40 for a French Press and still come close to your budget.

I was actually setting aside $150 for the grinder alone, which puts the Maestro Plus right in my range. Not writing off a refurbished one... if I can get the Virtuoso for a similar price, that'd be great.

I'm not including the french press in this budget because I won't necessarily need it right away, and I can more easily just pick something up at that price point with out having to run it by the spending committee (a.k.a., SWMBO :biggrin1:

)

SiBurning · Dec 16, 2009

+1 on the baratza. Other suggestions? How 'bout some rambling?

I have a baratza grinder and I'm happy with it. My old cheap cuisinart burr grinder... as someone said, it excels at grinding at all sizes... all at the same time. The baratza grinds consistently in two sizes at once, which is what any good grinder does. There's always some fine particles, and people even think it's necessary for espresso. Unfortunately, you don't want this in press coffee, but there's no way to avoid it with an electric grinder. I hear the manual grinders are better at this, but it's a lot of work to grind for company.

The baratza isn't suitable for espresso, but there's a modification (that baratza recommends) to adjust the grind down to make it possible to grind fine enough for espresso, but then you lose the range at the large end. It's just a cheap hack, since you really want some adjustment in that area for espresso, which you won't get with this. Since it can't grind fine enough for espresso, turkish isn't going to work either, since that's even finer.

Getting back to the press pots, I find it difficult to clean out the grinds. It's easy if you can dump them down the drain, but mine would clog. As a result, I use a long spoon and it usually makes a mess. A vacuum pot is much easier to clean because the vacuum dries the grinds well enough to get out cleanly. Even better is the stovetop espresso contraption, which is just as dry and the puck comes out cleanly, not to mention I like the coffee best of all. I also have a couple of pour over types (mileta and chemex) and have no trouble using paper or gold filters. There's less fines in the coffee from the non-paper filters, even though I use (what looks on average???) a finer grind. I also make turkish once in a while, and it comes out better than most of the restaurants, even though the grinds aren't really fine enough for a purist.

I think the $100-200 for a good grinder is worth the money for all of these types of coffee, unless maybe if you're a turkish purist. That's where a good manual would come in, but I wouldn't do that for a large group. I've changed my brewing technique with the chemex, using a much finer grind than before and actually scraping the fines off the filter while stirring during the brew, and it makes a richer coffee than before. Wish I could do that with the melitta, but those filters are too fragile. I think the melitta also makes better coffee with this grinder. Can't compare the other coffees too much since I stopped using the old grinder before then.

One thing about the refurbished ones. The original models had issues that have been addressed since then. The worst part was the complaints about static on the plastic grinds catcher. They started spraying this with a non static coating and it works pretty well considering it's still plastic, although I haven't had mine for long so I don't know how well it lasts. I don't know the other things they did, but you might consider staying away from the older models. Don't ask me, though, when they first came out or when they made the changes.

gurana · Dec 16, 2009

SiBurning said:
+1 on the baratza. Other suggestions? How 'bout some rambling?

I have a baratza grinder and I'm happy with it. My old cheap cuisinart burr grinder... as someone said, it excels at grinding at all sizes... all at the same time. The baratza grinds consistently in two sizes at once, which is what any good grinder does. There's always some fine particles, and people even think it's necessary for espresso. Unfortunately, you don't want this in press coffee, but there's no way to avoid it with an electric grinder. I hear the manual grinders are better at this, but it's a lot of work to grind for company.

The baratza isn't suitable for espresso, but there's a modification (that baratza recommends) to adjust the grind down to make it possible to grind fine enough for espresso, but then you lose the range at the large end. It's just a cheap hack, since you really want some adjustment in that area for espresso, which you won't get with this. Since it can't grind fine enough for espresso, turkish isn't going to work either, since that's even finer.

Getting back to the press pots, I find it difficult to clean out the grinds. It's easy if you can dump them down the drain, but mine would clog. As a result, I use a long spoon and it usually makes a mess. A vacuum pot is much easier to clean because the vacuum dries the grinds well enough to get out cleanly. Even better is the stovetop espresso contraption, which is just as dry and the puck comes out cleanly, not to mention I like the coffee best of all. I also have a couple of pour over types (mileta and chemex) and have no trouble using paper or gold filters. There's less fines in the coffee from the non-paper filters, even though I use (what looks on average???) a finer grind. I also make turkish once in a while, and it comes out better than most of the restaurants, even though the grinds aren't really fine enough for a purist.

I think the $100-200 for a good grinder is worth the money for all of these types of coffee, unless maybe if you're a turkish purist. That's where a good manual would come in, but I wouldn't do that for a large group. I've changed my brewing technique with the chemex, using a much finer grind than before and actually scraping the fines off the filter while stirring during the brew, and it makes a richer coffee than before. Wish I could do that with the melitta, but those filters are too fragile. I think the melitta also makes better coffee with this grinder. Can't compare the other coffees too much since I stopped using the old grinder before then.

One thing about the refurbished ones. The original models had issues that have been addressed since then. The worst part was the complaints about static on the plastic grinds catcher. They started spraying this with a non static coating and it works pretty well considering it's still plastic, although I haven't had mine for long so I don't know how well it lasts. I don't know the other things they did, but you might consider staying away from the older models. Don't ask me, though, when they first came out or when they made the changes.

Thanks for the info... I realize now my desire for a hand grinder is at odds with my not wanting to deal with the hassle of having to wash out and dry the built in grinder on my cuisinart grind-and-brew. What I hadn't considered was how difficult is it to clean out a press pot. I have a garbage disposal, but probably would try to get as many grinds out before rinsing the rest down the drain... in any case, I'll still have the auto drip.

SiBurning · Dec 17, 2009

I usually make the mess trying to get the last 1/4 of the grinds out. It's the scraping. The grinds stick to the sides as I scrape, and inevitably I'm still applying pressure when the scraper comes off the top and grinds fly around. My drain can't really handle more than a teaspoon of grinds. After a week of that, it stuffs up. So I'm thinking, maybe it won't be a problem if you can just rinse out the last few tablespoons. I don't use mine often because of this. Probably other people with more experience can explain better.

otherstar · Dec 17, 2009

SiBurning said:
I usually make the mess trying to get the last 1/4 of the grinds out. It's the scraping. The grinds stick to the sides as I scrape, and inevitably I'm still applying pressure when the scraper comes off the top and grinds fly around. My drain can't really handle more than a teaspoon of grinds. After a week of that, it stuffs up. So I'm thinking, maybe it won't be a problem if you can just rinse out the last few tablespoons. I don't use mine often because of this. Probably other people with more experience can explain better.

I had that problem until a friend showed me his solution: use a strainer. Something like this:

After pouring all the coffee out of the press, I set the strainer in the bottome of the sink and rinse the plunger off right over the strainer. Then I fill the press with water, pick up the strainer in the other hand, and pour it out through the strainer (taking the spent grounds with it) -- repeat until all the grounds are out of the press. I can then take the spent grounds and put them in the trash.

gurana · Dec 17, 2009

otherstar said:
I had that problem until a friend showed me his solution: use a strainer. Something like this:

After pouring all the coffee out of the press, I set the strainer in the bottome of the sink and rinse the plunger off right over the strainer. Then I fill the press with water, pick up the strainer in the other hand, and pour it out through the strainer (taking the spent grounds with it) -- repeat until all the grounds are out of the press. I can then take the spent grounds and put them in the trash.

looks like a winning solution to me! If spent coffee is all you use it for, then you wouldn't have to do more than rinse it out, I'd wager.

Also, I have a garbage disposal. I've heard mixed reviews about putting grounds down there. What I usually do, since I have a gold tone filterbasket on my auto drip, is shake out what I can, and whatever is left I will put in the drain. This amounts to possibly .5-1Tbs, I'm guessing.

homebrewer · Dec 17, 2009

First and foremost.... get the french press, you won't regret it.

Secondly, I'd have to recommend the electric grinder. As many of the gents on here, I prefer the older ways of doing everything, and as such, I bought the hand cranked Zassenhaus grinder. While it does an admirable job of grinding, and is the "more romantic" way of grinding, I have a lot of issues with it. Just as wine with a cork seems better than a screw cap, regardless of actual performance of the sealing method, sometimes progress really does move forward. My issue with the Zassenhaus, is while it is consistent in the grind, the adjustment knob is quite loose, and the grind may progressively become more and more fine as you grind. You may not notice it on day one or two, but by the third you start to notice a good amount of powder coming out of the grinder.... Something to think about.

As far as the garbage disposal is concerned, I've never had an issue. That being said, as soon as you put the grounds down the drain, turn the disposal on immediately. It is NOT fun to forget to do so, and turn on the dishwasher, only to discover that the coffee grounds have blocked the dishwasher drain, making it overflow all over the floor. So long as you turn it on, and don't forget that the grounds are in there, you won't have a problem.

Mink · Dec 17, 2009

Good info, but please simplify. I had a whirlybird grinder and finally stopped using it about 2 years ago. I got a Cuisinart burr mill and it's better, but it's not suitable for the new French press I got a few months ago - which I love. I'm not an Espresso or Turkish coffee drinker. I just want a coarse grind, without all the powder for my French press. Manual or electric is fine. So what grinder would be best for a coarse grind for my French press?

Less than $150, even <$100 if realistic, but not critical

Thanks

SiBurning · Dec 17, 2009

The baratza is one of only two or three really good grinders for non-espresso use. The fact that it's good for a range of coffee just happens. I forget the other grinder. http://www.coffeegeek.com/ is the place for reviews.

The truth is, with paper filters it's not that important to have a great grinder. Same for press or cowboy coffee, but you'll get grinds in your mouth without a good grinder or filtering it somehow. It gets more complicated with turkish, a vacuum pot, or stovetop espresso machine. No matter how you brew, your coffee will be a little better with a good grinder.

JBHoren · Dec 18, 2009

I certainly can't speak for anyone else, neither do I take issue with what anyone has written in this thread; but I do feel strongly enough that, within the realm of French-press brewing, the occasional "too-fine" results of an analog hand-cranked grinder are of little consequence, and have yet to put a damper on my coffee-drinking pleasure. Perhaps, were I an exacting espresso aficionado, the benefits of a digital, motorized grinder would matter. But I'm not, and they don't.

One item does make a noticeable difference: the fine-screen filter that I use, following the wire-mesh filter, in my Bodum French press.

There's always going to be some sediment in the bottom of my coffee mug; and, where there's room for sediment, there's also room for sentiment, so I'll stick with my hand-cranked grinders (Zassenhaus and KYM)... after all, I count the number of revolutions; don't you?

SiBurning · Dec 19, 2009

Everyone says hand grinders are the best. If you don't mind, could you give us an idea of your revolution count and how much coffee it makes?

Mink · Dec 19, 2009

One item does make a noticeable difference: the fine-screen filter that I use, following the wire-mesh filter, in my Bodum French press.

There's always going to be some sediment in the bottom of my coffee mug; and, where there's room for sediment, there's also room for sentiment, so I'll stick with my hand-cranked grinders (Zassenhaus and KYM)... after all, I count the number of revolutions; don't you?[/QUOTE]

A little more info on your "fine screen filter". Is this in addition to the middle screen that comes with the French press? Where do you get them? It would make a difference.

Thanks

SiBurning · Dec 19, 2009

A little more info on your "fine screen filter". Is this in addition to the middle screen that comes with the French press? Where do you get them? It would make a difference.

Thanks

You can see one here: http://sweetmarias.com/prod.frenchpress.php
I don't know if it's generic or only fits certain pots.

tsmba · Dec 19, 2009

If you have a good grinder, you are on your way. Have you tried a vac-pot? I used to use a press and also got tired of it. Once I tried coffee made in a vac-pot, I never looked back. They come in a wide range of prices, but a Yama will do the job and not cost a fortune. I replace their filter gizmo with a Corey glass rod (eBay).

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Increasingly annoyed with coffee maker; grinder and french press?

gurana

WhosYerBob

Jasonian

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gurana

Jasonian

gurana

SiBurning

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SiBurning

otherstar

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homebrewer

Mink

SiBurning

JBHoren

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Mink

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