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Grit level of Arkansas Translucent stone

Doc4

Stumpy in cold weather
Staff member
I managed to pick up an Arkansas Translucent hone recently on sale.

I figured it would fit in somewhere in my array of hones ... but where? Is it like a 400? a 2k? a 17k??? :blink:
 
Arkansas stones don´t go by grit rating, so it´s hard to tell.
Arkansas go by density, and the ones that are transluscent are the most dense.
(that´s the reason why they are transluscent!)

So the trans. will propably be the finest arki out there.
They are being used for final polishing for many tools.

They are slow and take patience. The edge you bring to it should already be very keen.
From what I´ve heard a transluscent can be ranged fro 8.000 JIS to 10.000 or maybe a bit higher.
Sometimes they are being translated to AINSI 2.000 wich would be 1micron
or around JIS 12.000

But you never know without trying it.
 

Doc4

Stumpy in cold weather
Staff member
Thanks. I was expecting something coarser for some strange reason (we never talk about them?) but that is encouraging.
 
From my understanding, there is a strong bias against using Arkansas stones on razors. I'm not completely sure why.

I'm not sure that I've heard of a strong bias against them. The main concern with the Arkansas translucent seems to be that it cuts very slowly and that other finishing stones may be a better value.

Hopefully, someone can come along to prove me wrong. I'm used to it :lol:
 
It´s propably because there is no grit rating and nothing to be sure of.
This counts however for eschers as well as nakayamas.
The only difference being: they cut faster AND someone popular said "they are great"
This doesn´t mean arkis work as great, I haven´t tried them

besides, there are arkis at the 1.200 JIS grit level. They arent transluscent then but look like one of them. You should still try and estimate for yourself
if yours is a finisher or not
 
I think that it is probably a really fantastic finishing hone.

Sometimes home grown available local hones dont have the same attraction as some exotic sounding foreign import. It is always amusing to me that as an Englishman, the arkansas stone always sounds exotic.
 
I managed to pick up an Arkansas Translucent hone recently on sale.

I figured it would fit in somewhere in my array of hones ... but where? Is it like a 400? a 2k? a 17k??? :blink:


Here is some info: Don't know if this helps or just adds to the confusion.

As for myself, I've come to the conclusion after reading many post on B&B --- Natural stones are like talking about women. No two men are going to agree on what is the perfect women or stone. Most of us kind of get use to what we have and make it work, others keep going from one woman / stone to the next --- until old age overtakes them or the money runs out.

For what it's worth, Arkansas stones are clasified as a Novaculite. The word novaculite is derived from the Latin word novacula, for razor stone.


Grit size for each grade of Arkansas Stone?

Arkansas Novaculite stones are classified by specific gravity and not the size of the grain. The grain of the silica crystals that form Novaculite are essentially the same size, 3-5 microns, whether the stone is classified as Soft Arkansas or True Hard Arkansas. Using Specific Gravity Testing, Companys measure the density of their stones, (that is the compactness of the grains bonded together.) Therefore the harder stones would then have more grains than the softer stones. Since the grit size of Arkansas Novaculite does not widely vary, it is difficult to compare it with the grit sizes of man-made stones. Grit measurement standards for traditional man-made stones vary internationally. By U.S. grit standards, genuine Novaculite most closely relates to the 600-1200 grit size.


Natural Arkansas Whetstones are available in various grades and classifications. Users should be aware that color is not the determining factor in grading Novaculite. Some users have been defining whetstone grades by color, but the same colors may be seen in more than one grade and classification. Different grades of Novaculite also have a noticeable difference in texture. The softer the stone, the coarser the surface of the stone feels; harder stones, such as the True Hard and Translucent, have a smoother glassy feel.

How to Choose an Arkansas Stone Grade to Suit Your Needs

Soft Arkansas (Medium) is the most popular of the grades of Novaculite. It is an all-purpose stone used by woodcarvers, sportsmen, butchers, commercial knife sharpeners and even housewives. This stone is used by people who desire keen, polished edges on their knives and tools in a minimum amount of time. Soft Arkansas stones may be white, gray and black, or pink and gray in color.

Hard Select Arkansas (Fine) is most suitable for fine polishing and the maintenance of a fine edge on knives or tools. Hard Select Arkansas is often referred to as "White Hard." However, users should be aware that Hard Select Arkansas often has color variations also. To our knowledge, this color does not interfere with the honing process by any means. Hard Select Arkansas stones are popular among woodcrafters and a variety of industries including the dental industry.

True Hard Arkansas (Extra Fine) is the finest grade abrasive available today. It is most commonly used for industrial applications where an extremely fine polish is required. True Hard Arkansas stones are often referred to as Multi-Colored Translucent; colors, both opaque and translucent, are random and may include black, red, white, and gray--often within the same stone.

Black and Translucent Arkansas (Extra Fine) stones are classifications included in the True Hard Arkansas grade category according to specific gravity under density standards. The reason there is a classification in this grade is because of color preferences by customers. Black Arkansas stones are black or blue-black in color. Translucent stones may be a uniform, translucent shade of gray, white, yellow, brown and sometimes even pink.

http://www.danswhetstone.com/stone_grades_101.htm
 
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I have used Translucent Arkansas stones and they're very fine. If you lap it in grit progression to Shapton Glass 16K, for example, then the stone will work at an insanely fine grit. It's all about how you lap it. The edge off a Translucent Arkansas that has been lapped properly rivals anything else that I have used, and I have used just about everything known to be out there. The problem is that they are slow so you'll need to be patient with your strokes.
 
The prejudice against them probably comes from the different types of arkansas hones. When you say arkansas hone, most people think of the black one, which is unsuitable for finishing a razor on. But the hard Arkansas stones are. Mastro Livi used one in one of his honing vids IIRC.
 
I used the white ones - not the pink or black ones. I don't know whether that makes a difference but I thought that I should specify.
 
Just to add to the confusion a little:

Norton actually sells a Norton branded translucent Arkansas bench hone. They state in their literature that it is 4K.

Keith at HandAmerican hones his razors on surgical black Arkansas stones.

I have both types but I haven't ever lapped them or tried to use them except on knives.
 
I have several old books and documents that suggest True hards are 800-900, Black hards are in the 1000-1200 range of grits (US) and translucents are around 1200 (the primary advantage of trans being that it was easier to see if the stone had problems than with a black).


Charts vary a little, but the most common relation I see is that 1200 ~= 8000 by Norton's standard (MM), though most reports from razor users I've seen (there aren't many) suggest the edge is comparable to a 12k or so... but slow, slower than a China 12k. Then there are a few people who find them unsuitable for razors at all.

An interesting note is that if you look at old books on rocks and hones Arkansas stones are consistently referred to as being among the best and finest. Japanese stones are speculated as being used with water because they are not of high enough quality to be used as oil stones (if anyone is curious I can try and dig up the quote for you, it made me "wat")... and turkish hones are in at least one book I've found, considered nothing more than arkansas stones polluted with garbage additions of Lime and Chalk. These days arkansas stones are barely considered by razor honers, apparently turkish stones are rare and sought after, and Japanese whetstones are considered by many to contain the best possible stones.
 
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it has been already said it is for final polishing stage.
Most books says black arkansas is the finest . Some will say pink is. in fact it doesn't matter.
I have never used black . i have white and Pink arkansas. have tested pink.Very fine and i like the edge they put.
My dislike about them is this.
You have to use oil and it is a little messy.
that is the only reason i don't use it a lot.
Same to charnley F.
hope this helps.
 
My dislike about them is this.
You have to use oil and it is a little messy.
that is the only reason i don't use it a lot.
Same to charnley F.

I use water and a bit of shaving lather on my arkansas and charnley forest hones. Razors don't produce a lot of swarf, and the suds do a very good job of keeping the stone clean, better IMO than oil. Every time the razor passes over the stone the surface effects between the blade and stone make it foam a bit and lift the swarf out of the stone. If you want to switch your oilstone to water, you can clean it off with some spray-on oven cleaner and this will get it clean enough that you can use water and lather. The lather breaks the surface tension enough that the water will stay on the stone without too much beading.
 
The prejudice against them probably comes from the different types of arkansas hones. When you say arkansas hone, most people think of the black one, which is unsuitable for finishing a razor on. But the hard Arkansas stones are. Mastro Livi used one in one of his honing vids IIRC.

Black Arkansas is unsuitable to finish on . (INCORRECT)

Hard Arkansas stones are ok . (CORRECT)

Anyone else confused here ?? :::001_rolle



Black surgical grade Arkansas stones are in fact in the hard category .

They will put on a far smoother edge than any DMT product out there . That was a no brainer .

cityjim
 
I've never quite understood the bias against these stones either. They are relatively cheap and easy to come by. I have never used them, but if Sham says they produce a good edge, it's good enough for me.
 
One of the issues with hard/harder Arkansas stones is they're not novice friendly. They take too long, they don't respond well at all to being pushed, they don't have the benefit of a slurry, it's real easy to chip a razors edge if the stone isn't well chamfered, and a hundred years ago somebody started spreading the lie you needed to oil them and ruined 4 generations worth of stones so far.

Not that I don't use 'em, I do, but primarily for burnishing knives. You might justify a brief touch up, or setting the bevel, but they are far from user friendly and skill with waterstones doesn't translate directly. Just because it's possible doesn't make it fun.

Living without arkansas stones is easy, it's living with 'em that's hard.
 
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