Newby with a lot of questions, needs your expertise.

**friendo977** · 12-01-2009, 08:06 PM

Hi everyone, I am new here, and have spent hours watching wet shaving vids (mantic)and reading info on this site. It has been tremendously informative...I never knew just how much there was to getting a good shave.

If you have a moment, let me tell you how I got here. Recently, out of necessity I had to use some of my fathers shaving products. He uses Nivea shave cream and a cheap shave brush as well as a walgreens disposable two blade razor. To my surprise even thought the shave wasn't all that close it was much better than my usual shave with a Mach 3 and Gillette goo.

I have suffered from sever razor bumps all my life. It has been quite painful to shave my whole life. Recently I just gave up on it and grew a light beard, which I hated. So when I felt this shave that was slightly better I instantly went online and watched all of mantics videos about wet shaving and tried to learn all I could. I am desperate.

After watching the vids I hurried down to my local Nordstroms to buy an art of shaving starter pack. Unfortunately the salesman informed me they only sold it online at this particular Nordstroms because of lowered demand (economy), so I settled for an Anthony Logistics starter pack and bought a badger brush from crabtree and evelyn.

I now use the Anthony face wash, pre shave oil, shave cream and aftershave lotion along with witch hazel to shave my face and a bic metal razor (not courageous enough to try a merkur yet).

Anyways, to make this long story even longer, I have been dissapointed to find I still have severe irritation and razor bumps and haven't been able to get the feel I had with that first accidental wet shave (It has only been three shaves since, I only shave twice a week). I was wondering if there were any suggestions you seasoned vets may have to help me. I especially need help with my neck area that is always broken out and looks horrendous.

Here is what I am thinking of trying.
1. Using all Nivea products since that is how I got my first good shave.
2. Using all Proraso, since so many people here rave about it.
3. Not using a brush, since Anthony Logistics isn't meant to be used with a brush.
4. Going back to a Mach 3 and only using a two pass system (WTG, XTG) for less irritation.
5. Buying a Mekur HD with a razor sample pack (although I was laid off last month so money is tight, so this may be the last option)
6. Using an exfoliating scrub on days I shave to help loosen the hair.
7. Using a ingrown hair product I own and that has helped slightly, although I am not sure if I would use this right after shaving, or just go with a shave lotion and then use the other stuff at night (the manufacturer says to use it both times).
8. Going back to the beard look.

If you have read this very long post...thank you. If you have a comment that may help...thank you more. I really wanna be pain free and look better too, after all I am single.

**JPM** · 12-01-2009, 08:19 PM

First, welcome to B&B! I'm kind of new at this myself, so I may not be the best help but I'll give it a shot. I'm sure you'll get a bunch more help.

If you can swing it, I would get the HD and a sampler pack of blades and start with a mild blade like a Derby or a Personna. Again, if you can afford it, try the Proraso. Do a two pass shave, WTG and XTG to start. Afterwards, splash with cold water and then try some witch hazel. You can do an aftershave splash if you want. That should begin to help.

Like I said, you'll get more advice from members with more experience.

Good luck and stick with it.

**LinuxMintyFresh** · 12-01-2009, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by friendo977

Here is what I am thinking of trying.
1. Using all Nivea products since that is how I got my first good shave.
2. Using all Proraso, since so many people here rave about it.
3. Not using a brush, since Anthony Logistics isn't meant to be used with a brush.
4. Going back to a Mach 3 and only using a two pass system (WTG, XTG) for less irritation.
5. Buying a Mekur HD with a razor sample pack (although I was laid off last month so money is tight, so this may be the last option)
6. Using an exfoliating scrub on days I shave to help loosen the hair.
7. Using a ingrown hair product I own and that has helped slightly, although I am not sure if I would use this right after shaving, or just go with a shave lotion and then use the other stuff at night (the manufacturer says to use it both times).
8. Going back to the beard look.

If you have read this very long post...thank you. If you have a comment that may help...thank you more. I really wanna be pain free and look better too, after all I am single.

My advice is going to be a lot of the same that you hear around here. Work on your prep first to soften the beard up before you shave. I would not suggest going back to a Mach 3, as I think you'll just get more irritation. You can try the Merkur, but for your face type you might try using a more mild Gillette (Super Speed?) or a TracII. 6,7,and8 are all good too.

**friendo977** · 12-01-2009, 08:38 PM

Help!

**Danny** · 12-01-2009, 08:49 PM

I have been wet shaving for almost 2 years and have several suggestions for you:

Regarding very sensitive skin- consider making one change at a time. Rather than introducing your skin to multiple different products all at once.
I strongly recommend the Merkur 38C safety razor if you only shave 2 times a week. Once you learn good technique, there is nothing more comfortable than a DE safety razor on a beard with heavier growth in my opinion.
Start by making 1-2 WTG passes. If your skin tolerates that, try 1 WTG and 1 XTG pass. I doubt your skin will ever tolerate an ATG pass. It is the most irritating type of pass to skin.
Try Van Der Hagen Deluxe shaving soap that can be found at any local Wal-Mart. It is dirt cheap, works well, and is specifically designed for sensitive skin.
A lot of guys like Nivea aftershave balm and probably for good reason. Consider using both Aqua Velva Classic Ice Blue and Nivea balm. Yes Aqua Velva will sting briefly, but I find that alcohol containing aftershaves just help with razor burn better for me. I find the cool menthol effect to be very soothing and not overpowering. Nivea is significantly better with respect to skin conditioning, so it probably wouldn't hurt to use both.

**BlackBard** · 12-01-2009, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

I have been wet shaving for almost 2 years and have several suggestions for you:

Regarding very sensitive skin- consider making one change at a time. Rather than introducing your skin to multiple different products all at once.
I strongly recommend the Merkur 38C safety razor if you only shave 2 times a week. Once you learn good technique, there is nothing more comfortable than a DE safety razor on a beard with heavier growth in my opinion.
Start by making 1-2 WTG passes. If your skin tolerates that, try 1 WTG and 1 XTG pass. I doubt your skin will ever tolerate an ATG pass. It is the most irritating type of pass to skin.
Try Van Der Hagen Deluxe shaving soap that can be found at any local Wal-Mart. It is dirt cheap, works well, and is specifically designed for sensitive skin.
A lot of guys like Nivea aftershave balm and probably for good reason. Consider using both Aqua Velva Classic Ice Blue and Nivea balm. Yes Aqua Velva will sting briefly, but I find that alcohol containing aftershaves just help with razor burn better for me. I find the cool menthol effect to be very soothing and not overpowering. Nivea is significantly better with respect to skin conditioning, so it probably wouldn't hurt to use both.

I agree with most of the above, with the exception that I would stick with the Mach3. Work on your lathering and prep techniques. Remember to use NO PRESSURE when you shave. The idea is not to get all the whiskers in one pass, but to just remove a little at a time. Try to understand your beard growth pattern and adjust accordingly when you make a pass. Don't try to get a "perfect" shave at first.

Personally, I never go near alcohol (except for internal uses), as I find it irritates my skin. Nivea balm is what I use.

Good luck.

**JonDC** · 12-01-2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by BlackBard

I agree with most of the above, with the exception that I would stick with the Mach3. Work on your lathering and prep techniques. Remember to use NO PRESSURE when you shave. The idea is not to get all the whiskers in one pass, but to just remove a little at a time. Try to understand your beard growth pattern and adjust accordingly when you make a pass. Don't try to get a "perfect" shave at first.

+1

Great advice. Lightening up the pressure, even with a cartridge will help, and paying close attention to the grain will too. I can't really tell the grain of your neck from the photos, but you may be shaving against the grain in a few spots and not realizing it.

**Drubbing** · 12-01-2009, 09:35 PM

Go with a DE. What do you have to lose?

A recent poster Pourasha (?) had even worth bumps than yours, and he's managed to make significant difference, with time and practice.

Ditch the Mach3, the pressure needed to shave with this is probably part of your problem, and the 3 blades can add irritation.

Good prep, good lather, using a cream like proraso, and a brush - you want to soften that beard. Learn good technique, with no pressure, as already suggested.

Personally, I'd stay away from scrubs and exfoliants as they can only irritate, they don't loosen hair. Shaving itself is already an exfoliant, so by using such products you can only add to your problems.

**Master-Classter** · 12-01-2009, 09:45 PM

1. Let your hair grow for 2-3 days and draw out a map of ALL the grain directions... the places where I get the same razor burn as you are the result of going at weird angles against the hair grain.
2. Stick to your mach 3 or whatever for now... focus on prep. I know some will encourage single blades, but just take it slowly and easy and mach 3's or 2 bladed ones are fine for now.
a. wash/cleanse your face in advance and hold a hot towel to your face for a while
b. get some good cream and your brush, work on good lathers. apply and let sit for a few minutes, then lather again overtop.
c. use light pressure and only do 2 wtg passes. start here. after 2-3 shaves like this, then try a bit of xtg and eventually agt. I find I can't do all passes every time I shave as my face needs to recover. I only do wtg and some xtg and every 2-3 times i can do a xtg
d. ingrowns/bumps like that may have something to do with your hair type (curly/wavy?), the grain direction (see point 1), or maybe bacteria. Try using rubbbing alcohol on your blades and brush after shaving, and spray your face with thayers witchhazel before putting on moisturizer.

lastly, take it slowly, give your face a few days to recover. I can't shave every day... every second is pushing it, and every third is best. My closest shaves are actually after I've had a few days growth.

Best of luck and let us know how things progress...

**friendo977** · 12-01-2009, 09:52 PM

Danny,
If I am able to find employment soon, I will be shaving everyday, would you still suggest a DE razor, since you said its the best if you are shaving only every few days. Also why a Merkur 38? Is that different from the regular Merkur HD or classic that I see on amazon. Sorry, I truly am a beginner.

**ladder44** · 12-01-2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

I have been wet shaving for almost 2 years and have several suggestions for you:

Regarding very sensitive skin- consider making one change at a time. Rather than introducing your skin to multiple different products all at once.
I strongly recommend the Merkur 38C safety razor if you only shave 2 times a week. Once you learn good technique, there is nothing more comfortable than a DE safety razor on a beard with heavier growth in my opinion.
Start by making 1-2 WTG passes. If your skin tolerates that, try 1 WTG and 1 XTG pass. I doubt your skin will ever tolerate an ATG pass. It is the most irritating type of pass to skin.
Try Van Der Hagen Deluxe shaving soap that can be found at any local Wal-Mart. It is dirt cheap, works well, and is specifically designed for sensitive skin.
A lot of guys like Nivea aftershave balm and probably for good reason. Consider using both Aqua Velva Classic Ice Blue and Nivea balm. Yes Aqua Velva will sting briefly, but I find that alcohol containing aftershaves just help with razor burn better for me. I find the cool menthol effect to be very soothing and not overpowering. Nivea is significantly better with respect to skin conditioning, so it probably wouldn't hurt to use both.

I agree that Van Der Hagen soap is great to use. It really is cheap, and you get a nice lather. Also, if it interests you, it has a nice, subtle smell. My wife stuck her head into the bathroom the other day just because she likes the smell of me shaving -- nice perk. I also use Nivea Sensitive PSB. I have sensitive skin, and it has worked well for me. I also have some Pinaud Clubman Bay Rum AS, but the alcohol burns like hell, and it makes my face uncomfortably tight.

**friendo977** · 12-01-2009, 10:05 PM

Guys I really appreciate all the suggestions, and can't wait to read more.
Based on some of the suggestions I am thinking I will make a few changes.

1. Ditch the Anthony Logistics shave stuff since its not meant to be used for a brush.
2. Use some Nivea Mild shave cream and after shave balm ,since I am gonna change product but dont wanna pony up for the mythical proraso line as I just plopped 50 bucks on the Anthony Logistics.
3. Upgrade to Proraso shave cream, pre shave, and aftershave lotion in the near future.
4. Stop using the Bic Metal disposable razor and go back to my Mach 3 until I can refine my technique. Than eventually man up and use a DE.
5. Try to get a better handle on which way the grain goes on my neck. (I have tried running my fingers over the stubble, any other way to figure it out?)
6. Only do two WTG passes and sacrifice some closeness for the moment (I have quite a thick beard), till I get some experience.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?

P.S. A lot of people have mentioned prep. I only shave after taking a hot shower and washing my face and I also let the brush, razor and bowl soak in the hot water of the sink,so I think I am doing good prep. What else should I be doing?

**friendo977** · 12-01-2009, 10:08 PM

Interesting that Van Der Haagen has been mentioned twice since it is a lower cost product and you dont read much about it. I will give it a shot.

**Trendkill** · 12-01-2009, 10:14 PM

Use whatever is most comfortable for you. I use the Nivea balm for sensitive skin and it works great. You could also try VDH soap which is available at any Walmart or Walgreen's. There is nothing wrong with using your M3 while you work on your prep. Just keep one thing in mind with your M3: It is designed for you to use pressure for it to be the most effective. This is a very bad habit that you will have to unlearn when you switch to a DE. I think with the right prep (read the sticky threads) you will be fine. Welcome to B&B.

**Mink** · 12-01-2009, 10:34 PM

For me, the best way to map the direction of the growth of my whiskers is by feel. It sounds messy, but it works. Be sure to write down what you find out because you will forget - what is your right side as your standing looking at the mirror is the left side of your face...and all that. Anyway, lather up and make your first pass - very lightly - North to South. When you rinse and lather up again, use your non-razor hand to feel for the prickly spots. You will find that there is only one direction that provides the resistance of the whiskers - this is against the grain (ATG), and your whiskers are growing in the opposite direction of the direction that your hand is moving. For me, my cheek whiskers grow from ear to chin, my mustache area grows pretty much North to South, and my Neck varies from horizontal (left ear to right ear), diagonally from chin to shoulder, and both N-S and S-N. It takes a while to get it all down. Going directly WTG, for me anyway, can cause the skipping (you can tell because the lather smears) and ATG causes razor burn. So, until you're more confident with your technique, XTG from each direction is your friend. I would not be trying for a BBS for a couple of months....at least that's how I would try it.

**Master-Classter** · 12-01-2009, 10:59 PM

Sounds like a plan...

For the grain direction - I actually drew out a picture of a face and then arrows and circles to "map" out all my growth directions... (I found out I had 1 spiral and several different directions - all areas where i had razor burn before knowing that). I let my beard grow out a few days and then rub in circled and long strokes with my fingers to feel the direct. Also I used a magnifying mirror.This can take 10-15 minutes to do, and you'll have to refine it a few times but I now use this as a guide. I then USED THIS MAP pasted to the wall next to my mirror as i shaved as a reference...

some other things,
Your cheeks are one long but relatively straight strip. Your neck angles down and away, so if you keep your hand and the razor only at a slight angle, it will dig in/out as you move down, so basically watch your razor head/angle carefully...
So soften the beard, I give my face a good hot wash in the shower. Then when I lather up, I leave the lather on for a minute or two while I do something else (let it sit and soften), then reapply lather and then shave. wet your face inbetween and relather.

PS - read this one http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1580416

**Luc** · 12-01-2009, 11:24 PM

Welcome to B&B!

Good advices up here. My only advice from here is to have a good prep before you shave. Good prep makes a huge difference on the results.

Kyle's prep is one of the best IMO. Mantic has a video on it.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9745

**Gruder** · 12-02-2009, 04:40 AM

Let me just add my welcome!

**NickCutlip** · 12-02-2009, 05:09 AM

Welcome to B&B !!

**Spivey** · 12-02-2009, 05:24 AM

Welcome to B&B!

First of all, please check out the tutorial sticky, ESPECIALLY the prep tutorial. The hot towel method employed in this thread will really go a long way toward helping you without any added cost. Additionally, you could use the brushless creams that you already have as your initial lather (that doesn't get shaved off) under the hot towel.

As you are strapped for cash, it might be a good idea to look into a Weishi DE as they are super cheap and super mild. They are available on the Bay: often times offered with a bunch of blades.

Hang in there and good luck.