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Purchasing New Straight, TI or Mastro Livi?

With that said - thus far using historical data - Livi's are the worst investment of any production razor. I don't buy the whole "smaller market of buyers." Put up a TI, Dovo, Tim Z, Ellis, etc etc with a reasonable price and it's gone in not time flat. Do that with a Livi... and you're in for a long sale.
Joel, we all know there are anomalies. For example as far as I can tell this one http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=81810
is still not sold 7 months later, despite multiple attempts. And I've seen mid-range TIs have to go down to 50% off within few weeks before they can sell.

I'm sure that given the price increases of current production razors in the last two years you can sell a lot of your TI razors, for at least double what classicshaving used to sell them in the old days, not just the tiptles.
Should we mention the filarmonica brand - that's gotta be one of the most profitable 'razor investments'.

At the end of the day though, most of us buy razors to keep them, not to resell them, but I can see how to many it is important to hedge their bets that a razor will be a keeper, so your point certainly has merit.

I don't have the experience with as many high end razors as you do, but so far it seems that most of my impressions are consistent with other people's who have more experience than me, like thebigspendur, mparker, and lynn to name a few, in many cases with yours too.
 
One thing I neglected to mention - it is one thing to have sloppy gold wash on a $150 TI, a whole different thing to have mess up file work on a $300+ Livi. The first I can live with, the latter is wholly unacceptable. If you decide to go with a Livi, thoroughly inspect it. Then inspect it again.
 
As usual I agree with Henry.
I think it's also important to understand what kind of razor you want first and get that.
I wouldn't call the Livi's filework on my razor anywhere close to even spaced, symmetric or anything like that. That's not the style of the razor at all.
I've seen other Livi razors, not mine, that have different very polished style and look.

I think the same is true for the TI razors as well, I have two uploaded in the razor database over at straightrazorplace and they have very different look, one is clean and polished, the other is more rustic (and I have good reason to believe that is intentional). I like diversity and both work for me when well done.

Incidentally I also have with me a different razor in the same price ballpark, which is neither here, nor there, and the more time passes the more that bugs me.

That sums up both of my Livis, one regrind and one in Takeda.
 
You wouldn't go out and spend the big bucks for a Porsche 911 and complain that its a rough riding car not very luxurious on the inside. It's just what it is. Livi and his family have been making cutlery for a very long time and if you have ever seen some of his other types of cutlery you would know that his straights are designed to be just what they are. To impune his abilities because you don't agree with his philosophy in razor making is no different than that guy complaining about the 911.
 
You wouldn't go out and spend the big bucks for a Porsche 911 and complain that its a rough riding car not very luxurious on the inside. It's just what it is. Livi and his family have been making cutlery for a very long time and if you have ever seen some of his other types of cutlery you would know that his straights are designed to be just what they are. To impune his abilities because you don't agree with his philosophy in razor making is no different than that guy complaining about the 911.

No, I would not complain that a 911 is a rough riding car. But I would complain if the seats were installed crookedly, one of the fenders a different color or it leaked because the windshield was not properly installed. In fact, if I bought a Porsche and it's fit and finish were not just exactly perfect, I'd not accept it. Would you just shrug off a gouge across the hood or dent in the bumper on the car a dealership is trying to sell you? It'll still drive like a Porsche, won't it?

And that is my point: Livi does make some great looking, great shaving razors. But as his price, I expect a little more attention to detail.

Now I can put up with imperfections in a custom straight. It is the nature of the beast. But the file work on both of my Livis aren't based on a philosophy, just sloppiness. Or not caring. Whichever, I am not impugning Livi's abilities. I am sure he can do better. I am sure he does do better. But HE is letting the sloppy work out of HIS shop. That is a problem, not ME mentioning it. And sloppy it is: my regrind has an extra, out of alignment, half finished scallop on one side of the spine. The Takeda, well it looks like he did it blindfolded. Feel free to call such work a razor making philosophy or intentionally done. I call it slop.
 
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You wouldn't go out and spend the big bucks for a Porsche 911 and complain that its a rough riding car not very luxurious on the inside. It's just what it is. Livi and his family have been making cutlery for a very long time and if you have ever seen some of his other types of cutlery you would know that his straights are designed to be just what they are. To impune his abilities because you don't agree with his philosophy in razor making is no different than that guy complaining about the 911.

I've seen his cutlery... it's mediocre and overpriced, if that's his philosophy then... :blink:

To each their own, he makes some nice shaving, unique custom razors - period. Debating the finite merits and philosophies is moot. At the end of the day, it's a freakin' razor.

I'll never talk poorly of a Livi's shaving ability, their unique character, the innovative designs, etc - but i've seen two gentlemen work on razors and knives - one of which made a razor in front of me, and there's no wiggle-room when it comes to fit and finish/quality and I know a lot of the shortcomings I've experienced in my Livi's could have been avoided by merely taking an extra 30 seconds - on a critical part like pinning the razor.

When MY $1,000 Livi is pinned crooked, has a bent blade that rubs up against the scales (not the shank, and not the pin job, but the actual blade twisted from uneven pressure on the grinding wheel) when it's closed - there's no arguing there isn't a problem and it's just his "philosophy." I don't think that's unreasonable to expect, no - DEMAND your $1,000 razor doesn't inhibit these characteristics. I've been fooled too many time with Livi's... i'll never buy another.
 
I've seen his cutlery... it's mediocre and overpriced, if that's his philosophy then... :blink:

To each their own, he makes some nice shaving, unique custom razors - period. Debating the finite merits and philosophies is moot. At the end of the day, it's a freakin' razor.

I'll never talk poorly of a Livi's shaving ability, their unique character, the innovative designs, etc - but i've seen two gentlemen work on razors and knives - one of which made a razor in front of me, and there's no wiggle-room when it comes to fit and finish/quality and I know a lot of the shortcomings I've experienced in my Livi's could have been avoided by merely taking an extra 30 seconds - on a critical part like pinning the razor.

When MY $1,000 Livi is pinned crooked, has a bent blade that rubs up against the scales (not the shank, and not the pin job, but the actual blade twisted from uneven pressure on the grinding wheel) when it's closed - there's no arguing there isn't a problem and it's just his "philosophy." I don't think that's unreasonable to expect, no - DEMAND your $1,000 razor doesn't inhibit these characteristics. I've been fooled too many time with Livi's... i'll never buy another.

My sentiments exactly.
 

Isaac

B&B Tease-in-Residence
I have a few Livi's and a few Chandlers as well as one Zowada. I would tell you this much. I would take a Zowada or a Chandler over the Livi if offered a free blade. THe Livi's are awesome to look at, but I just find better shave/fit/finish with Chandlers and Zowada.
 

Doc4

Stumpy in cold weather
Staff member

http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/shop.html ... any of those. (I like the festonne')

You can see how there are different opinions on this sort of thing. Without significant research on your part, I'd suggest staying away from purchasing a Livi or any other custom-maker razor until you've flogged it to death and really decided on what you want. (Or maybe you have lots and lots of disposable income to throw around ... me, I'd research it to death.)
 
I've been fooled too many time with Livi's... i'll never buy another.

+1 I've had two Livis - one was $300 and one was $600, and I sold them both.

I think Isaac has got it right in that they look nice in pictures, but when you just want a high quality razor, they fall short of other great razors in that price range. I personally think that Chandler, Williams, and Ellis are much better choices.
 
I have only one Livi New Grind and I really like it. I have had a couple TI's and sold them both I just didn't care for them. This is just the way I feel about them. I also have a Tim Zowada 2H2H prototype and and it is the best shaver I have I am having Tim making me a custom I hope to get it soon I know it will be a fine shaver. Maybe the TI's I had were made on an off day but if I was going to buy another TI or Livi I would choose the Livi .
 
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