Purchasing New Straight, TI or Mastro Livi?

**Manco** · 11-26-2009, 03:02 PM

Buying a new straight, 350 pounds budget. Which would you buy and why? What differences will there be? Difference in quality? Which is "Better"?

1. http://www.thiers-issard.co.uk/bijou...alnutbirl.html -£234
2. http://www.thiers-issard.co.uk/celeb...ingbocote.html -£280

3. http://www.coltellerielivi.it/Livi_C...li_r14_en.html - €200
4.http://www.coltellerielivi.it/Livi_C...i_r109_en.html - €400
5. http://www.coltellerielivi.it/Livi_C...i_r158_en.html - €300

Thanks.

**professorchaos** · 11-26-2009, 03:21 PM

Plenty of differences between a TI and a Livi. What are you looking for in a straight?

**JonnyAngel** · 11-26-2009, 04:01 PM

Id be curious to know the differences myself.

**leighton** · 11-26-2009, 08:43 PM

Edit:

Aren't those the Livi New Grinds? If so, I would buy that.

The Silverwing is a limited edition TI. Its the first that used their new steel. Not sure what else is different about that one. But their new production supposedly uses the new steel now so...

IIRC of course.

**Kees** · 11-27-2009, 04:17 AM

I am not verry impressed with the regrinds. The shoulder is too thick, Livi should have ground it thinner, it interferes with honing the heel.

**CraigJ** · 11-27-2009, 06:58 AM

One thing I have noticed is that when somebody tries to sell a TI it goes in just a few days. When they try to sell a Livi it sits for a while. If you think you might ever want to sell this blade in the future, keep that in mind.

**professorchaos** · 11-27-2009, 07:28 AM

I have a Livi regrind and a few TIs. In the interest of full disclosure, all my new TIs are from the prior generation steel and production methods. With that in mind, the Livi is the better razor in terms of fit, finish and shave quality. Livi vs. the Historique line is a different ball game.

**Thebigspendur** · 11-27-2009, 11:21 AM

I have several TI's and several Livi's including the regrind and comparing them is like comparing a chevy to a cadillac. (the TI ain't the cadillac)

**richmondesi** · 11-27-2009, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Thebigspendur

I have several TI's and several Livi's including the regrind and comparing them is like comparing a chevy to a cadillac. (the TI ain't the cadillac)

**Shredder** · 11-27-2009, 12:04 PM

And now for a european, which one was the better again?

**richmondesi** · 11-27-2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Shredder

And now for a european, which one was the better again?

Livi

**psychoshonen** · 11-27-2009, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

I have a Livi regrind and a few TIs. In the interest of full disclosure, all my new TIs are from the prior generation steel and production methods. With that in mind, the Livi is the better razor in terms of fit, finish and shave quality. Livi vs. the Historique line is a different ball game.

Speaking of the different ball game, how do you find the Historique line perform? I'm currently considering saving up for one (it'll be a long process, but they are gorgeous!), and of course the obvious competition is a Livi Regrind.

**professorchaos** · 11-27-2009, 12:40 PM

Compared to the new production, the Historique line has much better fit and finish. The scales are sized for the blades, the gold wash is tighter and they shave very well.

Bear in mind, I gave up on new production TIs more than a year and a half ago, well before their new steel and manufacturing process. So my comparison is based on that experience.

**psychoshonen** · 11-27-2009, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by professorchaos

Compared to the new production, the Historique line has much better fit and finish. The scales are sized for the blades, the gold wash is tighter and they shave very well.

Bear in mind, I gave up on new production TIs more than a year and a half ago, well before their new steel and manufacturing process. So my comparison is based on that experience.

Thanks for the quick review Henry! Good to hear that the fit and finish is less prone to the problems that some of the run of the mill TI's can occasionally suffer from.

At any rate, good luck to the OP making the choice, and I'm sure you'll be quite satisfied any way you decide.

**Blaine** · 11-27-2009, 08:28 PM

Assuming you'd take the opinion of someone who never used either...

Personally, I'd lean towards the Livi. At some point in time I'd like to buy one, if for no other reason then I enjoy the thought of having something from a traditional master craftsman. They could be making TIs for decades, maybe forever.

Who knows when the last Maestro Livi will leave the hones?

**richmondesi** · 11-27-2009, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by gugi

I think that has to do mostly with their different positions in the price curve, and therefore different size of the pool of potential buyers.

This.

**leighton** · 11-28-2009, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by gugi

I think that has to do mostly with their different positions in the price curve, and therefore different size of the pool of potential buyers.

Exactly.

And for those who don't know what a "regular" Livi sells for, they sell for above $600. The new grinds are not regular Livis, they're old blanks Livi procured and is making razors with. His regular stuff is made from scratch.

Most TI's cost under $250 retail. They sell for a lot less on the BST. Except for the Le Grelots, which are basically NOS vintage razors, never to be reproduced again.

**joel** · 11-28-2009, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by CraigJ

One thing I have noticed is that when somebody tries to sell a TI it goes in just a few days. When they try to sell a Livi it sits for a while. If you think you might ever want to sell this blade in the future, keep that in mind.

BIG +1. I've had a few Livi's and they all had terrible fit and finish and it was a nightmare selling them. At $300 less than what I paid, it took me nearly 1 year to get rid of one of my Livi's.

If you do get a Livi, get one on the B/S/T as you'll save a lot of $ and you'll have a ton of negotiating power (do a few searches in the B/S/T and you'll likely find a bunch of fellas trying to sell much nicer razors, around your price range that are probably hurting to make a deal).

With that said - thus far using historical data - Livi's are the worst investment of any production razor. I don't buy the whole "smaller market of buyers." Put up a TI, Dovo, Tim Z, Ellis, etc etc with a reasonable price and it's gone in not time flat. Do that with a Livi... and you're in for a long sale. The old posts don't lie - and people contact ME (unsolicited) to buy my custom razors all the time - and while i've had interest from just about all of the makers - no one has ever pinged me with interest in one of my Livi's.

**joel** · 11-28-2009, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by leighton

Exactly.

And for those who don't know what a "regular" Livi sells for, they sell for above $600. The new grinds are not regular Livis, they're old blanks Livi procured and is making razors with. His regular stuff is made from scratch.

Most TI's cost under $250 retail. They sell for a lot less on the BST. Except for the Le Grelots, which are basically NOS vintage razors, never to be reproduced again.

I disagree. Silverwings are over $300, LE Hammers are over $400 various other LE's are close to $400, and TI Damascus razors are over $800. I've seen (and bought/sold) all the aforementioned sell for near MSRP in a matter of hours.

In fact - I would bet dollars to doughnuts I could sell one of my LE hammers for more than what I paid. It's my personal opinion, my LE Hammers, Silverwing, and Damascus TI's are better/smoother shavers with much better balance than the Livi ATS-34, Damascus, and Takeda AS and Takeda Damascus razors i've owned.