Honing with a Norton 4K then shave

[Scorpio]

Is it possible to shave comfortably and smooth after honing with the 4k and stropping? or is the higher grits like the 6k or 8k still needed.

Will the Swaty serve as a polishing stone for this purpose?

Are Swatys oil or water stones? I think they are oil stones but not sure. Mine repels water so that is why I think it is an oil stone. Just want to make sure.

Thanks.

Raf

[mparker762]

Maybe. I've shaved quite comfortably with blades honed on translucent arkansas which is about 5k (accd to Norton). I've shaved with razors honed on the 4k norton and didn't particularly enjoy the experience. Generally the higher grit hones give a sharper blade and a more comfortable shave.

The Swaty is intended to be used dry, with water, or with lather. AFAIK you could use oil on it as well if you really wanted to, but lather does a better job of keeping the stone free of swarf.

[joel]

I wouldn't do it. Different stones cut differently - slower stones tend to make a more "shaveworthy" edge - IE the translucent arkansas Mr. Parker speaks of - so in some cases, grit is not as much an issue, but with a Norton, it is.

I would use the 4K side of the norton, switch to the 8K side, THEN finish with the swaty. Going right from the 4K side of a norton, to a swaty isn't really going to work all that well, and will take a painfully long time to get the edge you desire.

[Scorpio]

Thanks for the reply MP.

Is the translucent arkansas same as the hard white arkansas?

Raf

[mparker762]

No. Translucent arkansas is actually translucent. Hard arkansas is about 800-1200 grit, black arkansas and translucent arkansas are around 5k grit, and pink translucent (what I have) is around 6k grit. My hone feels and looks like a small plate of pinkish-brown colored glass.

[Scorpio]

No. Translucent arkansas is actually translucent. Hard arkansas is about 800-1200 grit, black arkansas and translucent arkansas are around 5k grit, and pink translucent (what I have) is around 6k grit. My hone feels and looks like a small plate of pinkish-brown colored glass.

Thanks mp. You and Joel have been very helpful.

Raf

[Scorpio]

After reading the responses I managed to borrow a Japanese 6k waterstone. I used the stone in combination with the Norton 4k and proceeded with the conservative pyramid. In addition after the pyramid I stropped 35-50 laps on the smooth side of the strop. The edge improved tremendously. In comparison with a blade hone by the honemeister, it is very close. I know i dont have the higher grit finishing stones but I think that I can get a comfortable shave with this set up. I also have a Swaty but I have not had any success with it. Should I try a few laps on the Swaty after the pyramid and before the strop?

thanks for the help

Raf

[joel]

After reading the responses I managed to borrow a Japanese 6k waterstone. I used the stone in combination with the Norton 4k and proceeded with the conservative pyramid. In addition after the pyramid I stropped 35-50 laps on the smooth side of the strop. The edge improved tremendously. In comparison with a blade hone by the honemeister, it is very close. I know i dont have the higher grit finishing stones but I think that I can get a comfortable shave with this set up. I also have a Swaty but I have not had any success with it. Should I try a few laps on the Swaty after the pyramid and before the strop?

thanks for the help

Raf

Make sure the Swaty is totally flat.... mine wasn't - and since I have no idea how to (or interest in learning how to) lap ceramic hones, I haven't used it much. IF it is flat though - try it as a final polish before you strop - and try to hone it WITH lather on the hone, as you'll find it'll make a much finer edge, as it will barely touch the hone

Hope this helps.

[gglockner]

Make sure the Swaty is totally flat.... mine wasn't - and since I have no idea how to (or interest in learning how to) lap ceramic hones, I haven't used it much. IF it is flat though - try it as a final polish before you strop - and try to hone it WITH lather on the hone, as you'll find it'll make a much finer edge, as it will barely touch the hone

Hope this helps.

Classic Barber Hones are very easy to get true or flat as long as they start somewhat close to being true. Simply use a thick sheet of glass or marble (anything that is known to be flat) and start with 600 grit paper. Put the sandpaper on the glass and scrub the stone evenly on the paper. You will see after several passes if there is an area that needs work. I get the hone true (all areas of the surface making contact) then work your way up to higher grits. I typically will finish with 2000 grit. Wash the hone good before using and if you have a old razor to practice on take a bunch of passes on it first with that.
Swatys are a fine finishing hone and one can get a great shave using them as the final step before stropping. There are different Swatys that vary some in grit. I also will spend more time on one side than the other turning the stone into somewhat of a double grit hone. They can be used dry, but I would use wet. Lather or liquid soap works great for the final passes. I to would find another grit hone between the Swaty and the 4K Norton.

Glen

[Scorpio]

Well, today I tried the swaty again. It seems that it set me back instead of finishing. I went back to the 6K for finishing and then stropping, this brought the edge back. I then put about about 20 laps on the 6K and under a microscope looks very close to high level honing but then again I'm just learning to read edges under a microscope. I'll shave test tomorrow and see how it goes. It might be a case of the Swaty and the blade not responding well to each other. Btw the blade is a Wade & Butcher 5/8 Square Point.

After getting the $10 microscope from Radio Shack I realized it is a very important tool in recognizing blade sharpness and to compare what a honemeister edge looks like next to mine.

Raf

[mparker762]

Try blackening the bevel with a magic marker and give the blade a few laps on the hone, then look at it again under the scope. This will help hilight what the hone is doing and make it easier to diagnose problems under the scope or with the naked eye.

Once you're done the marker comes off with oil or soap & water or acetone.

[netsurfr]

On a blade that really needs serious honing I may use the Norton 4K and then the Norton 8K. However, I don't seem to get back to the Norton combo stone too often since I use diamond pasted paddles. I refresh with a .25 micron paste and occasionally go back to a .5 micron paste.