In Words, Could You Describe Your Lathering Process (with Shave Cream)?

Ok, I am still having HUGE difficulty with the lathering process. I know that it's not supposed to be difficult at all, but it's been proving to be like rocket science to me over these last few beginning weeks. I've tried everything. I've tried the "trial and error" process of purposely "ruining" some lathers, but without a job, I can't afford to keep doing that. I've watched Mantic's video on YouTube of "How to Build and Apply a Traditional Lather" about 50 times, but the problem with that is that he's been doing it for years and doesn't have a problem with it, so of course when I watch him do it, it's going to look like a piece of cake! (And please don't just "short-cut" your response to this thread by just simply attaching that video to your post and saying "Here you go! Just watch this." I've watched it 50 times already. It just ain't helpin', okay?) I would LOVE to have one of the more experienced veterans on this board right there by my side in front of my sink for a day to help me work on getting the perfect lather by the end of the day, but that's obviously not possible.

So, assuming that you use shave cream from a pot or tube, could you describe, step-by-step in words, how you whip up your lather each shave?

Like sex, sometimes it doesn't work if you're trying too hard. My procedure:

Soak brush in bowl with hot water while I shower.
Finish shower, empty bowl, give brush two hard shakes.
Apply cream to tips of brush. The amount depends on the cream I'm using.
Turn the faucet on to a trickle.
Begin swirling vigorously, stopping every ten swirls or so to tilt the bowl and check the sheen of the lather.
If the lather is not shiny, add a bit of water from the faucet.
Repeat until lather is thick, fluffy, and shiny.

Emmett said:

Apply cream to tips of brush. The amount depends on the cream I'm using.

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Ok, right here...see, I even need help on the amount of cream to use, so if you could, explain how much cream you use depending on each cream (I use C.O. Bigelow and Trumper's Sandalwood)

OK, you don't want a link to Mantic, so I won't post it.

I've had same problem, it looks so easy for the guys on the videos - but they first make them, when they are good at it.

At some point I read a post where this link was http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21136

and this has really helped me making really nice lather - and it doesn't matter wether it is soap or cream.

There are other really great tutorials, tips & tricks in the sticky in this forum, where the above also come from

Here's some visuals that might help.

Two of my brushes side by side for size comparison. The left is a custom job with an 18 x 45 mm knot (fairly small). The right is an AOS pure badger with know dimensions roughly 24 x 55 mm, and not as densely packed.


Brush in hand for another size approximation


Cream on brush, side view. The cream is a T&H, I forget which, but they all lather almost identically IMO. You can see on the small brush there's not much cream, maybe the size of a coffee bean. For any of the three T's I would use about this amount, for Proraso, Irisch Moos or Speick slightly less, and for a cream I wasn't familiar with, slightly more. For a larger brush I would use a little more across the board.


Cream on brush, top view.

I can't see how reading others techniques would be easier than watching a video. Even though mantic's been at it longer, that doesn't mean he's making something look easy - it is.

Anyway...mine is similar to Emmett's

Soak brush in bowl with hot water while I shower.
Finish shower, empty bowl, give brush two hard shakes. A drier brush is better than a too wet one - you can't un-add water.
Squeeze small amount of cream in bowl (or grab a small fingertip's worth from a tub)
Add drips of water, and swirl with intent between each watering.
Keep going til lather builds and has glossy look
When the lather is soft, creamy and peaks on the brush, it's done.
Takes about a minute or two

I rarely manage to use the exact same amount of cream each time, but that doesn't really matter; if you use too much, it just takes a little longer. If you start with a damp brush it will just paste up a little before the water thins it and creams it up. But if your brush is too wet, it will foam and be sudsy from the beginning, and will be hard to get it to a cream.

Drubbing said:

I can't see how reading others techniques would be easier than watching a video. Even though mantic's been at it longer, that doesn't mean he's making something look easy - it is.

Anyway...mine is similar to Emmett's

Soak brush in bowl with hot water while I shower.
Finish shower, empty bowl, give brush two hard shakes. A drier brush is better than a too wet one - you can't un-add water.
Squeeze small amount of cream in bowl (or grab a small fingertip's worth from a tub)
Add drips of water, and swirl with intent between each watering.
Keep going til lather builds and has glossy look
When the lather is soft, creamy and peaks on the brush, it's done.
Takes about a minute or two

I rarely manage to use the exact same amount of cream each time, but that doesn't really matter; if you use too much, it just takes a little longer. If you start with a damp brush it will just paste up a little before the water thins it and creams it up. But if your brush is too wet, it will foam and be sudsy from the beginning, and will be hard to get it to a cream.

Click to expand...

First, Mantic is not exactly making it look like a piece of cake. To me, it's like someone, who has never picked up or swung a golf club in their life, trying to learn golf and having a friend send them an E-Mail with a link to a video of Tiger Woods' best drives and saying "Here you go! Just watch this and you should be all set!". That person who is trying to learn isn't going to be an expert like that by the end of that afternoon.

See, I've even tried it out to the point where I'm not using ANY water or maybe a single drop of water and a HUGE dollop of cream and swirling it around, and my lather still comes out so thin that you can still cleary see the bottom of the latte' mug. It's got no substance to it. No thickness at all. I get the initial startings of the peaks on my brush, but now I'm starting think that the only reason that's the case is because all of the lather is up inside my brush and not in the latte' mug where it's supposed to be.

Drubbing said:

Soak brush in bowl with hot water while I shower.
Finish shower, empty bowl, give brush two hard shakes. A drier brush is better than a too wet one - you can't un-add water.
Squeeze small amount of cream in bowl (or grab a small fingertip's worth from a tub)
Add drips of water, and swirl with intent between each watering.
Keep going til lather builds and has glossy look
When the lather is soft, creamy and peaks on the brush, it's done.
Takes about a minute or two

Click to expand...

same as my routine quite hard to fail IMO using these guidelines.

after my shower

1) heat up water in a tea kettle

2) put my brush business side down in a coffee mug, and pour the hot (not boiling) water in until it pretty much covers the bristles

3) squeeze about a dime or nickel size squirt of proraso into a small bowl - the bowl is a little wider and shallower than the coffee mug - and the dollop of cream is about the same size as the amount of toothpaste i would put on my toothbrush - maybe just a teeny bit more

4) if my face isn't still wet from showering, i splash some warm water from the tap on it while the brush soaks for just a moment

5) remove the brush from the mug and let it drip over the sink, eventually giving it a little shake to get some of the excess water out

6) vigorously stir it around in the bowl until the foam starts to thicken - if i've got too much water, i shake some more out and go back to stirring - if there's not enough, i'll put a few drops at a time in - this step doesn't take more than a minute or two

7) here's where i depart from most of what i've seen, heard and read - as soon as there's a decent amount of thick foam (thick enough that it doesn't drip off the brush when i pick it up) i start lathering my neck and face - vigorous swirls to work up the lather and smooth strokes after that to make sure i've covered everything

i take it that most people do this face lathering when shaving with soaps, but not so much with creams - i don't worry about trying to build a bowl full of lather - perhaps i don't have the patience - but this method works so well for me, i can't imagine needing to do anything different

when it's time for the second pass (and the third, and the fourth, or whatever) the brush is still ready - same process, just swirl it around on my face and then smooth it out

i've yet to run out of lather, or to have problems with it being too dry, wet or whatever - if the consistency is right at the beginning, it seems to stay that way

hope i've explained what i do correctly, and that it's of some benefit to you

good luck!

some people just can't get a hang of things by watching a video. Reminds me of my wife trying to put together something from IKEA.

Tat2d bald Dude,
I am not a veteran by any stretch, but here is what I do and I seem to have good results with Bigelow or TOBS.

1) Soak my brush in a bowl or mug filled with hot tap water.
2) wait about 5 minutes or until the brush starts to fluff up from absorbing the water.
3) take brush out of the bowl or mug and pour the water out
4) give the brush a couple shakes. keeping the water in the brush that it absorb, but getting rid of the excess.
5) put a finger tip sized portion of the cream on the tips around the center.

So if you got that part then there are possible 2 ways to go: Face or Bowl/Mug

Bowl or Mug,
the bowl will have a little water in it, that has been ok for me. So I just take the brush into the bowl and start agitating in a circular motion going clockwise and then counter clockwise. Do this until I feel like I have something I like to shave with. You shouldn't see large air bubbles. You should see something that looks like merinuge. it will have a shine to it. feel it, if it feels slick and creamy then give it a go. You might have to adjust water or cream. Some experimentation at this point on your part to find something you like.

Face:
If you choose this route then just have the wet brush with the fingertip sized portion of cream on the brush and put it your face and agitate the brush in a clockwise to counter clockwise direction and move about to face until you cover your shave area. Keep going until you feel that you have lather and it feels like something you want to save with.

Here's what I do, and it has taken me pretty close to 4 months to get constantly repeatable results:

-Fill mug with hot water from facet, and allow brush to soak
-Fill hot water boiler with hot water from tap.
-Wait for water to come to a full boil, unplug the water boiler.
-Pour boiling water into another mug that has a spout on it.
-Take brush from mug, and give it a firm squeeze, and at least two good shakes (it is far easier to start out with a brush that is dry, rather than one that is super wet).
-Grab a Popsicle stick, and scoop out an amount of cream approximately equal to the size of two almonds (some people have said a one almond sized dollop, but I have that is not enough).
-Place shaving cream from Popsicle stick into my lathering bowl.
-Begin to work lather with brush, using swirling motions, and up, and down pumping motions. Work lather until a heavy dense lather starts to form. At this point the lather is much too dry.
-Add a teaspoon of water from my mug with the spout, to the lather.
-Work lather again, with the same motions as before.
-Add yet another teaspoon of water.
-Work lather again same as above.
-Good lather is a visual thing, and at this point the lather should start to be shinny.
-Wet face all over thoroughly. Note, that this step introduces even more water into the lather.
-Proceed to pick up a large amount of shaving cream with the brush, and swirl it around my face for a good while (30 seconds or more)
-Paintbrush strokes with brush to even out the lather.
-Complete first pass of shaving.
-Rinse face, and re-apply lather.

Note, that I rinse my face after every pass, which not everyone does.

Hope this is of some help to you.

Also, while I think the business with the hot water boiler results in a more luxurious shave (as warm lather is awesome), it might not be 100% necessary. However, my quality of lather seems better when using the hotter water.

EDITED TO ADD:

I am quite deliberate in working the brush in such way as to push the lather up onto the sides of the bowl. Every time I re-add water, I push all of the lather back down into the bottom of the bowl, and start to rework it.

Also, just to be even more through, my lather bowl is slightly larger than a ceramic bowl I have. I fill the lower bowl 1/2 way full with the pipping hot water, and rest the lather bowl on top. This results in the lather becoming nice, and warm. Oooo....Ahhhh!!

Tat2d Bald Dude said:

but now I'm starting think that the only reason that's the case is because all of the lather is up inside my brush and not in the latte' mug where it's supposed to be.

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I think that lather is supposed to be more in the brush than the bowl anyways. You should try face-lathering, which will remove one variable from the equation.

Soak your brush, shake it out, put a dollop of cream deep in the breach, then go to town on your face. Don't be afraid to mash and swirl, you want all the good stuff deep in the brush to get mixed around and brought to the surface.

After about 30 or so seconds, you'll notice that the lather isn't changing any more, no matter how much swirling you do. At that point, spread the bristles a bit and let 3 or 4 big drops fall into the middle of the brush, then start swirling again, and repeat as needed. You'll see the lather build right on your face, there'll be a lot less guesswork involved.

Hi Tat2d - any chance you could post a video or photos of yourself making the lather? We might be able to point out some mistakes to you.

Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me when you say the lather is so thin you can see the bottom of the mug especially when you claim to have used a huge glob of cream with a tiny drop of water. I'm not sure how you could have gone through the process of destroying lather several times either without hitting a sweet spot at all. Nor does it make sense to me that all your lather is going inside the brush with none left in the mug. Not trying to be rude or condescending but I haven't experienced any of these scenarios personally.

A photo (or video) could be worth a thousand words.

I find this interesting. It sounds to me like you've got it a bit backwards. The water is what makes the lather thicken, up until you add so much water that it destroys the lather. Less water = thinner lather. You want to thin out the cream so that water and air can be mixed in, which creates a thick lather.

Cream by itself is very dense, but thin. When you add water, you're making an emulsion that is much less dense, but much thicker and creamier.

See, I've even tried it out to the point where I'm not using ANY water or maybe a single drop of water and a HUGE dollop of cream and swirling it around, and my lather still comes out so thin that you can still cleary see the bottom of the latte' mug. It's got no substance to it. No thickness at all. I get the initial startings of the peaks on my brush, but now I'm starting think that the only reason that's the case is because all of the lather is up inside my brush and not in the latte' mug where it's supposed to be.

Click to expand...

i'm guessing that you're trying to create a big bowl of creamy lather - while the good stuff is already there in your brush, waiting to be applied to your face

gaj90027 said:

Hi Tat2d - any chance you could post a video or photos of yourself making the lather? We might be able to point out some mistakes to you.

Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me when you say the lather is so thin you can see the bottom of the mug especially when you claim to have used a huge glob of cream with a tiny drop of water. I'm not sure how you could have gone through the process of destroying lather several times either without hitting a sweet spot at all. Nor does it make sense to me that all your lather is going inside the brush with none left in the mug. Not trying to be rude or condescending but I haven't experienced any of these scenarios personally.

A photo (or video) could be worth a thousand words.

Click to expand...

I would LOVE to have some way to post a video showing this entire forum what I'm doing as I prepare my lather, but I don't know how I would go about doing that. I already pretty much posted pictures last week showing my lathering and that didn't get many answers that helped me any more than now.

Ok, let me break it down like this...

-I fill a latte' mug with hot tap water and let the brush soak in it for about 2-3 minutes.

-After the 2-3 minutes has passed, I take the brush out of the mug and dump the water out of the mug.

-Then, I give the brush about 2 or 3 good hard shakes.

-I squeeze about a quarter-size dollop of cream into the bottom of my latte' mug.

-I try to gently run just the tip of the bristles of my brush over the dollop of cream, but here's where things start to go south.

-I vigorously swirl the brush around the inside of the mug. I focus more on counter-clockwise than clockwise, because I swirl A LOT faster counter-clockwise than I do clockwise.

-I spend about 20 seconds swirling before I start to get a very thin, soap-sudsy film/lather appearing at the bottom of the latte' mug. NOTE: At this point, I can clearly still see the bottom of the latte' mug

-I spend about 20 more seconds swirling the brush around the inside of the mug and it is at this point that my brush starts to get coated with a lot of the lather.

-Over the course of the next 20 seconds, I swirl some more and I start to push the head of the brush down to spread the bristles of the brush out just a tad (I believe this is what you guys call "pumping"...correct me if I'm wrong on that). NOTE: The bottom of the latte' mug can still be clearly seen and the lather does not appear to be building or getting ANY thicker AT ALL. I start to get REALLY frustrated and confused and start picturing in my head the image of going back to cartridge and canned goo shaving with my Gillette Fusion products, but remember that I don't want to go back to that, since I would like to master this wet-shaving stuff so I can frickin' enjoy it, because since I've started, it's been more of a chore than the canned goo process ever was!

After that third 20-second incriment is when I get a gut feeling that I should be starting to see my lather REALLY starting to look like a bowl full of Cool-Whip or Reddi-Whip, but it's not even REMOTELY close, as you can still clearly see the bottom of the latte' mug and there is no depth to the lather whatsoever. (For example, if I stick my index finger down directly into the center of the bowl, the lather doesn't even cover my finger tip. I could swipe my finger across the bottom of the bowl and wipe the lather away with that one swipe.

That's where we'll stop for now. So, to me, it sounds like I might actually have the very beginning stages squared away, but just need to figure out how to get to the point where that latte' mug is FILLED, I mean FILLED with lather that looks like a bowl full of Cool-Whip.

Am I right? Am I almost there? Or does it sound like it's not even going very well for me from the moment my brush gets done soaking?

Noebie said:

i'm guessing that you're trying to create a big bowl of creamy lather - while the good stuff is already there in your brush, waiting to be applied to your face

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EXACTLY! Now here's my question....how do I get that big bowl of creamy lather? I want it in the bowl for starters. Not in my brush!

If you take the loaded brush and apply it to your face, do you get nice thick lather on your face? Lather in the bowl is pretty much just extra wasted lather unless there's not enough in the brush to relather as often as you want. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on where the lather is as long as you've got good lather to use...

After that third 20-second incriment is when I get a gut feeling that I should be starting to see my lather REALLY starting to look like a bowl full of Cool-Whip or Reddi-Whip, but it's not even REMOTELY close, as you can still clearly see the bottom of the latte' mug and there is no depth to the lather whatsoever. (For example, if I stick my index finger down directly into the center of the bowl, the lather doesn't even cover my finger tip. I could swipe my finger across the bottom of the bowl and wipe the lather away with that one swipe.

That's where we'll stop for now. So, to me, it sounds like I might actually have the very beginning stages squared away, but just need to figure out how to get to the point where that latte' mug is FILLED, I mean FILLED with lather that looks like a bowl full of Cool-Whip.


At this point is it shiny or matte?

Going by what you just wrote in the previous post, I would say that it is probably matte.
Add a FEW DROPS of water, and continue to swirl.

You are looking for shiny, glossy lather.
If doesn't come after 20-30 seconds , add a FEW MORE DROPS of water and repeat until it is shiny, glossy, and has "peaks" in the lather.

Done

pkey said:

If you take the loaded brush and apply it to your face, do you get nice thick lather on your face? Lather in the bowl is pretty much just extra wasted lather unless there's not enough in the brush to relather as often as you want. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on where the lather is as long as you've got good lather to use...

Click to expand...

If I "paint" the lather on my cheeks with a swiping motion, then I get a decent slick lather that is kind of thin, but not bad.

If I swirl the lather on my cheeks with the brush, no...then, it seems to be horrible, because you can see little bubbles and you can CLEARLY see my face.