Naniwa 10k or 12k?

[Rick Sparks]

Okay, I'm about to take the plunge and get a "finishing" stone. I'm going to take Leighton up on his offer and see what my edge should feel like after the Norton 8k, but it seems like I should have at least one more stone in the process. I can get a Naniwa 10k Chosera for about $65 and a 12k for about $75. Which one would you guys recommend? Cheers!

[leighton]

The carborundunum. Save your money.

A chosera for $65!? Thats a freaking steal. Never mind what I said above. Get the 10k. Or sell it to me for some mad scientist experiments.

[joshmpdx]

if you're already at the 8k stage and you're looking for a finishing stone, go with the 12k.

the chosera may be a better quality stone, but i don't think that it's going to give you a better edge than the 12k.

[jkh]

Okay, I'm about to take the plunge and get a "finishing" stone. I'm going to take Leighton up on his offer and see what my edge should feel like after the Norton 8k, but it seems like I should have at least one more stone in the process. I can get a Naniwa 10k Chosera for about $65 and a 12k for about $75. Which one would you guys recommend? Cheers!

Do you mean the Naniwa Super Stones? The prices you have quoted jive with Naniwa's Super Stone line of hones ... the Chosera's are considerably more expensive.

[Rick Sparks]

Do you mean the Naniwa Super Stones? The prices you have quoted jive with Naniwa's Super Stone line of hones ... the Chosera's are considerably more expensive.

Yup. You're right. Just looked at the prices on choseras and that's way more than I can spend. So, if I'm looking to spend $65-$75 or thereabouts, is the Naniwa 12k Super Stone my best bet?

[ouch]

Do you mean the Naniwa Super Stones? The prices you have quoted jive with Naniwa's Super Stone line of hones ... the Chosera's are considerably more expensive.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Ray-man]

I have both the 8k and 12k nani's. I very seldom use the 12k. Why don't you consider getting the 8k and then going to crox and stropping. You might want Leighton to do up 2 razors for you, one finished to the 8k and one to the 12k and not let you know which is which. Chances are, you might not be able to tell the difference.

Just a thought.

Ray

[English]

if you're already at the 8k stage and you're looking for a finishing stone, go with the 12k.

the chosera may be a better quality stone, but i don't think that it's going to give you a better edge than the 12k.

This sort of comment really gets my back up. Do you have a Chosera 10K?
Have you used a Naniwa 10K Chosera hone? Do you know or are you speculating?

You said "YOU DON'T THINK" that it's going to give a better edge than the 12K.
Do you know?

The superhone 12K is about $80 the Chosera 10K is about $260.

Do you know why that is?

[Rick Sparks]

Well, I can't afford a chosera stone at this point, but I have had an offer for another member to sell me a Shapton 16k for just a little more than the Naniwa 12k super stone. I have to confess that I'm a little skeptical of the idea that there's no appreciable difference between the 8k and 12k Naniwa stones. Surely the people who make them would argue that point. And even if I couldn't tell the difference, what the heck do I know at this point? I'm so new to honing.

Anyway, opinions about whether I should go for the Shapton 16 or the Nani 12 would help narrow my choices a lot. Please keep in mind that if one is easier to learn on than the other that would be a major factor. I still need training wheels. Cheers!

[joshmpdx]

This sort of comment really gets my back up. Do you have a Chosera 10K?
Have you used a Naniwa 10K Chosera hone? Do you know or are you speculating?

You said "YOU DON'T THINK" that it's going to give a better edge than the 12K.
Do you know?

The superhone 12K is about $80 the Chosera 10K is about $260.

Do you know why that is?

Thanks for clarifying, i said "i don't think" because i don't know...

and would be happy to be enlightened.

[English]

Fair enough guys. But all of these hones have a market and a customer base. A Japanese carpenter or sushi chef would I am sure tell which hone is for which purpose.

I am still learning about Japanese synthetics and to be honest it is a very expensive process. They are all different. The main difference is the way they feel. Most of them do what it says on the box. The more you pay, the faster and the more consistant the hones appear to be. Also, the more you pay, the bigger and especially thicker and therefore heavier the hone becomes. The bigger hone of course lasts longer.

I'll give you an example. KING is a major Japanese sythetic hone brand.
The information I have read about KING on the forums tends to comments like.....they are OK. Not good, not bad. I have just looked at e bay and there is a guy selling KING. The first thing I notice is that they make the same hones in different sizes. The second thing I noticed is that they make the same grit in different qualities. The third thing I noticed was that in the high quality hones they sometimes make two versions, a hard one and a soft one. Some qualities are double the price of the cheaper qualities in the same size. Nobody has made reference to this in reviews etc.etc. So when they say King is OK, which quality were they talking about. I suspect the cheap quality. So from reading the forums about King hones I can tell you now, I know absolutely nothing. To really find out, I will have to buy one and try it.

I have tried the Naniwa 10K superhone and I have tried the Naniwa 10K Chosera. I have not tried the 12K superhone. I have also not tried Naniwas diamond hones.

The Chosera is very expensive and the price will go up soon because the Yen is getting stronger. The last discounted price I saw on the internet was $259 shipped in the USA. It is a very thick substantial stone. It comes with a nagura stone for cleaning the surface of swarf and to refresh the surface after use. The hone is very soft and chefs and knife forums rate the hone very very highly as a kitchen knife finishing hone. It also works exceptionally well on razors. The main advantage it has over the superhone range is that it will tackle harder steels with ease. So the chosera will put a great 10K edge on stainless steel or silver steel or the modern high hardness steels just as easily as on soft carbon steel. So the hone is a substantial professional hone that can be used as a general purpose finishing hone for knives, razors and Samurai words.

The 10k superstone is about one third of the price. It is thinner and lighter than the Chocera. They make some versions in a 10mm thickness. It is a soft hone but not as soft as the Chocera. It has a clingy, some say buttery feel during use. It sharpens razors very well. It is not of the same quality as the Chocera range, it is of a lesser quality. There is nothing wrong with it and compared to many other hones out there it is a great hone for razors.
So on a value for money basis for a straight razor user looking for a finishing hone, it ranks high on the list.

The difference betwen an 8K, 10K, 12K,16K or 32K is to some degree
a personnal thing. It depends on what feel you like on your face. Once you find it, you will know because you will shave daily with a perfect shave and no discomfort. I am currently using an 8K japanese synthetic hone followed by an Escher. I don't know the grit of the Escher stone.

Anything 8K and above has the potential to put an edge on a razor with which you can shave.

One big problem is that not all manufacturers use the same grit ratings.

The 12K Naniwa is considered on the forums at least to be the same as the 16K ceramic on glass Shapton. I haven't used either so can not comment.

I hope that helps.

[Rick Sparks]

Well done, English. That was a lot of good information. Thanks! I could still use some input on whether to buy a 12k Nani Super Stone or a Shapton 16k. Cheers!

[GsSixgun]

Very well put English...


As a Shapton GS and Naniwa SS user the 16k and the 12k are not the same at all, there is a distinct difference on how they hone, and feel as you hone...
On the face in a blind test I doubt I could tell the difference between the two...

[Rick Sparks]

As a Shapton GS and Naniwa SS user the 16k and the 12k are not the same at all, there is a distinct difference on how they hone, and feel as you hone...
On the face in a blind test I doubt I could tell the difference between the two...

They're distinctly different in how they feel and hone, but they give pretty much the same edge? Okay, so if you could only have one, which one would it be?

[richmondesi]

I've not used a Naniwa, but shaptons have a reputation of working better within the the shapton system of hones. I don't have any experience outside of shapton to answer, but that may help with your decision. Glen, has this been your experience?

[GsSixgun]

If I was reading the OP correctly the last stone used is the Norton 8k

So really either one...

The Shapton's as Rich pointed out do have a tendency to work better as a system, I have said this since day one when using them BUT the Sweet 16 is the exception to that, it can be used as just a finisher...

Either stone is very capable of being a fantastic finisher, I think if I were "forced" to make a decision coming off a Norton 8k, I would pick the Naniwa and only because of the feel, NOT because of the capabilities of the stone....

[professorchaos]

Fair enough guys. But all of these hones have a market and a customer base. A Japanese carpenter or sushi chef would I am sure tell which hone is for which purpose.

I am still learning about Japanese synthetics and to be honest it is a very expensive process. They are all different. The main difference is the way they feel. Most of them do what it says on the box. The more you pay, the faster and the more consistant the hones appear to be. Also, the more you pay, the bigger and especially thicker and therefore heavier the hone becomes. The bigger hone of course lasts longer.

I'll give you an example. KING is a major Japanese sythetic hone brand.
The information I have read about KING on the forums tends to comments like.....they are OK. Not good, not bad. I have just looked at e bay and there is a guy selling KING. The first thing I notice is that they make the same hones in different sizes. The second thing I noticed is that they make the same grit in different qualities. The third thing I noticed was that in the high quality hones they sometimes make two versions, a hard one and a soft one. Some qualities are double the price of the cheaper qualities in the same size. Nobody has made reference to this in reviews etc.etc. So when they say King is OK, which quality were they talking about. I suspect the cheap quality. So from reading the forums about King hones I can tell you now, I know absolutely nothing. To really find out, I will have to buy one and try it.

I have tried the Naniwa 10K superhone and I have tried the Naniwa 10K Chosera. I have not tried the 12K superhone. I have also not tried Naniwas diamond hones.

The Chosera is very expensive and the price will go up soon because the Yen is getting stronger. The last discounted price I saw on the internet was $259 shipped in the USA. It is a very thick substantial stone. It comes with a nagura stone for cleaning the surface of swarf and to refresh the surface after use. The hone is very soft and chefs and knife forums rate the hone very very highly as a kitchen knife finishing hone. It also works exceptionally well on razors. The main advantage it has over the superhone range is that it will tackle harder steels with ease. So the chosera will put a great 10K edge on stainless steel or silver steel or the modern high hardness steels just as easily as on soft carbon steel. So the hone is a substantial professional hone that can be used as a general purpose finishing hone for knives, razors and Samurai words.

The 10k superstone is about one third of the price. It is thinner and lighter than the Chocera. They make some versions in a 10mm thickness. It is a soft hone but not as soft as the Chocera. It has a clingy, some say buttery feel during use. It sharpens razors very well. It is not of the same quality as the Chocera range, it is of a lesser quality. There is nothing wrong with it and compared to many other hones out there it is a great hone for razors.
So on a value for money basis for a straight razor user looking for a finishing hone, it ranks high on the list.

The difference betwen an 8K, 10K, 12K,16K or 32K is to some degree
a personnal thing. It depends on what feel you like on your face. Once you find it, you will know because you will shave daily with a perfect shave and no discomfort. I am currently using an 8K japanese synthetic hone followed by an Escher. I don't know the grit of the Escher stone.

Anything 8K and above has the potential to put an edge on a razor with which you can shave.

One big problem is that not all manufacturers use the same grit ratings.

The 12K Naniwa is considered on the forums at least to be the same as the 16K ceramic on glass Shapton. I haven't used either so can not comment.

I hope that helps.

To sum up, then, the primary difference between the Chocera and the superstone is a. feel and b. the former tackles a broader range of steels?

But does the Chocera produce a better shaving edge? Which is to say, if I have a matched pair of razors and, using my experience and knowledge, hone one on a 10K superstone and the other on a 10K Chocera to what I consider to be shave ready, will the razor honed on the Chocera be quantifiably better?

[leighton]

To sum up, then, the primary difference between the Chocera and the superstone is a. feel and b. the former tackles a broader range of steels?

But does the Chocera produce a better shaving edge? Which is to say, if I have a matched pair of razors and, using my experience and knowledge, hone one on a 10K superstone and the other on a 10K Chocera to what I consider to be shave ready, will the razor honed on the Chocera be quantifiably better?

The Chosera is also thicker, and therefore will last longer.

They're distinctly different in how they feel and hone, but they give pretty much the same edge? Okay, so if you could only have one, which one would it be?

I choose the Nani 12, only because I have the Nani set. Otherwise...honestly, I would just choose whichever one I bought first because thats the one I got used to.

[English]

To sum up, then, the primary difference between the Chosera and the superstone is a. feel and b. the former tackles a broader range of steels?

But does the Chosera produce a better shaving edge? Which is to say, if I have a matched pair of razors and, using my experience and knowledge, hone one on a 10K superstone and the other on a 10K Chosera to what I consider to be shave ready, will the razor honed on the Chosera be quantifiably better?

No it doesn't. I doubt if you will be able to tell the difference. But the Chosera has the following advantages.
1. It will hone the razor in less passes on the hone. The harder the steel, the more you will notice the Chosera's cutting efficiency and the more time you will save.
2. The Chosera will last significantly longer because it is a thicker hone.
3. The hone feels very different to use. It is less buttery/clingy. It feels more like a harder stone.
4. The Chosera , because of its efficiency will sharpen a rougher edge to full 10K smoothness/sharpness much quicker than the Naniwa.