Can your skin be too sensitive for a straight razor?

Hello all- not sure if this should be in here or the newbies forum but here goes

I was really interested in straight razor shaving, so my dad's friend popped in one day to give me an annie shavette he'd picked up in america as a gift
been using it for maybe 6 months now, and at first I would literally destroy my face everytime i'd use it- but now I can get a BBS shave out of it, but with a lot of blood (and a lot of stypic use)- tbh when I first got the blade I was kinda winging it and I really had no idea how to use it, I was using regular hand soap and had no brush. I now have a men-u boar hair brush and some handmade shaving soap I got in scotland, i'm having trouble lathering properly, I think this is because I don't put enough water in.

Every time I shave I get a nice close shave, but it takes ages and ages (time I don't have!), and even with 2 only passes my skin is still very red and I keep catching the edge of the blade on my skin, resulting in cuts.
Should I just ditch the shavette? I wan't to love it, I love being able to change blades (I accidentally dinged it on the tap and it didn't matter, 25p gone but no biggie, would hate to ruin a nice razor out of carelessness [also live with other students, so would have to keep it out of sight]) I would like to think that a real straight would solve the problems with irritation but is my skin just too sensitive?
the annie is extremely cheaply made and weighs nothing- so I was thinking maybe switch to a Monsieur Charles or even a feather- I was also thinking about giving some Derby blades a trial- atm i'm using wilkinson sword, and they're very hit and miss quality wise
I would love a straight razor, but i'd rather buy something that was nice to look at (gold on the blade, olivewood handle etc), but i'd hate to buy it and find it still makes my skin red

also i'm quite concerned about skin stretching- a friend of mine said that straights weren't were good because the constant stretching of the skin results in premature wrinkles, is this just a ridiculous myth or is this founded on truth?

Either I plump up the cash for a straight (also I can't really afford a strop, and hones are a definite no atm [although for the record can I just get away with a 4000/8000 stone?]) or I try the derby blades and switch to a DE if i'm still not liking the shavette
actually it's not that I don't like the shavette- I love it, it just demolishes my skin, and seeing as shaving takes so long with it I think a DE might be quicker?

Is it bad practice to use a DE on weekdays and a straight at the weekend?


I know this post is all over the place, but if anyone could help that would be magic- thanks
Clark

**I would have edited my original post, but I thought it would have made it too long/disjointed**

my current shave routine is: shower, wash face with clinique face wash and exfoliator, lather up with handmade nettle shaving soap, shave, styptic (lots...), clinique toner, after shave balm

should I be using toner, and should I be exfoliating my face as well as using the brush etc- is that what's causing the redness, or do you think it's just due to the razor


also i'm quite concerned with the fact a straight razor edge is quite a bit longer than the DE blade in my shavette- if anyone else has made the switch, is it difficult to adjust to the extra length?

A straight razor is very different to a shavette, much better in all ways to the shavette including superior shaves.

clarky said:

I was really interested in straight razor shaving, so my dad's friend popped in one day to give me an annie shavette ...

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A shavette is somewhat different from a regular straight razor, so your initial assumption may be leading you astray.

also i'm quite concerned about skin stretching- a friend of mine said that straights weren't were good because the constant stretching of the skin results in premature wrinkles, is this just a ridiculous myth or is this founded on truth?

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I never heard that one before but it sounds like hogwash.

Either I plump up the cash for a straight (also I can't really afford a strop, and hones are a definite no atm [although for the record can I just get away with a 4000/8000 stone?])

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You absolutely need a strop. You can get a good one for $20 from http://ruprazor.com/store/index.php...category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=32 but you need to add $14 for international shipping (assuming you are not in the USA).

You will not need a hone before you are at the point where you know if you will stick with it or not. The strop linked above comes with some sharpening paste on the reverse side and will extend the time you can go without re-honing. In any case you can send out to get your razor re-honed. If you buy from the same site I just referenced you will get a certificate for one free re-hone.

... it's not that I don't like the shavette- I love it, it just demolishes my skin, and seeing as shaving takes so long with it I think a DE might be quicker?

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It demolishes you skin and you still love it?

Is it bad practice to use a DE on weekdays and a straight at the weekend?

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Not at all. Easing in to shaving with a straight at times you can be more relaxed and have more time is an excellent idea.

Ditch the sub-par shaving soap and get something that makes a real lather.
No matter how good your technique, you're going to shred yourself up if your lather is poor.

I find straights to be the mildest way to shave - essentially irritation free. Of course you run the risk of cutting yourself and shaving with a dullish straight is awful. But a sharp straight combined with good technique will yield the closest, most comfortable shaves you can imagine.

ambrose said:

A straight razor is very different to a shavette, much better in all ways to the shavette including superior shaves.

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thanks- I wouldn't have got the shavette out of choice, but as it was a gift I felt I had to get some use out of it, and it did allow me something to learn on I guess- although i'm sure i've picked up some bad habits along the way :/
not having to strop (and knowing I always had a keen edge) meant I could focus on technique, so in that respect it was a useful tool- I reckon a straight will feel a lot easier to use now

Robert Paulsen said:

You absolutely need a strop. You can get a good one for $20 from http://ruprazor.com/store/index.php...category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=32 but you need to add $14 for international shipping (assuming you are not in the USA).

You will not need a hone before you are at the point where you know if you will stick with it or not. The strop linked above comes with some sharpening paste on the reverse side and will extend the time you can go without re-honing. In any case you can send out to get your razor re-honed. If you buy from the same site I just referenced you will get a certificate for one free re-hone.

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Thanks- that's a real great price for the strop, and yes i'm in the UK, so I guess the free re-hone wouldn't be that useful to me- looks like the straight razor scene isn't as big here as it is in the US, is it a good idea to get a strop with a canvas side? I heard it's good for lightly touching up the edge when stropping is starting to lose the magic

It demolishes you skin and you still love it?

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well the mach 3 demolished my bank balance so something had to give- I wish i'd discovered B&B before attempting to use the razor though... after learning a hell of a lot my technique has improved to the point where I don't get open cuts anymore- just areas of redness and the occasional pin ***** blood spot (which I guess could be from the exposed edges of the blade?) Still enough blood to take me 10 minutes to sort out though, so not exactly get up and go shaving at the moment- I keep meaning to go to another dermatologist but I was once told (by a make up artist) that some red marks on my face could be psoriasis, so maybe this has something to do with my skin getting red?
It's only on the second pass when I get irritation- the first pass is always smooth as silk

Not at all. Easing in to shaving with a straight at times you can be more relaxed and have more time is an excellent idea.

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I think I might try this then- but as it stands I don't have to shave every day (one shave lasts me 3 days!! a mach 3 would last a day, and wouldn't remove the 5 o clock shadow), so depending on whether I ever get my student loan sorted out would dictate how much cash I have to spend- because at the moment it's about £90 tops
So it's either cheap straight now/DE or a really nice razor later on (or is it better to have more than one razor, so getting a cheap one now and a nice one later on?)

gone down south said:

Ditch the sub-par shaving soap and get something that makes a real lather.
No matter how good your technique, you're going to shred yourself up if your lather is poor.

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I think you're right- but i'll have a go at making a few bowls of decent lather tomorrow and if I still can't do it after watching 13 tutorials then i'm either an idiot or the soap doesn't work- I've got a sample sized tube of some men-u shave cream, so i'll try that too- from what i've read, I think I wasn't using enough water, because the soap was still clumpy, and not at all like meringue

professorchaos said:

I find straights to be the mildest way to shave - essentially irritation free. Of course you run the risk of cutting yourself and shaving with a dullish straight is awful. But a sharp straight combined with good technique will yield the closest, most comfortable shaves you can imagine.

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thanks- is shaving with a straight much closer than a DE?

I think i've got one more chance to get the shave i'm after with the shavette, and if that still isn't giving me the results i'm after then i'll have to decide on whether to go straight or DE (that being said, now the redness has subsided- 6 hours after shave- it's a really great shave, BBS and no noticable cuts, it's just the redness straight after shaving that's the problem)
although I think i've got my heart set on a straight

does anyone have an opinion on this razor http://www.theenglishshavingcompany...ut Throat razors, Strops & Paste@b|0|user||7|
or this package deal
http://ruprazor.com/store/index.php...category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=32

thanks for all the help guys

In the UK, I would check out Steve Dempster's sites. He can provide everything you need and he's local. He's also a member here.

clarky said:

Thanks- that's a real great price for the strop, and yes i'm in the UK, so I guess the free re-hone wouldn't be that useful to me- looks like the straight razor scene isn't as big here as it is in the US, is it a good idea to get a strop with a canvas side? I heard it's good for lightly touching up the edge when stropping is starting to lose the magic

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"Touching up" is the point of the pasted backside of the strop I mentioned. In the long run you will likely want a two-piece strop -- leather and fabric. But don't consider buying the first one a waste since pretty much everyone messes up their first strop and then gets another, fancier, one. All part of the game! Note that I still use the pasted side of the one I bought.

Here is a UK retailer: http://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/

clarky said:

thanks- I wouldn't have got the shavette out of choice, but as it was a gift I felt I had to get some use out of it, and it did allow me something to learn on I guess- although i'm sure i've picked up some bad habits along the way :/
not having to strop (and knowing I always had a keen edge) meant I could focus on technique, so in that respect it was a useful tool- I reckon a straight will feel a lot easier to use now

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It will be easier, but remeber a straight has a much longer blade, so some of the technique will be different. It will also be weighted and balanced differently

clarky said:

Thanks- that's a real great price for the strop, and yes i'm in the UK, so I guess the free re-hone wouldn't be that useful to me- looks like the straight razor scene isn't as big here as it is in the US, is it a good idea to get a strop with a canvas side? I heard it's good for lightly touching up the edge when stropping is starting to lose the magic

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I use canvas - but you will have to pay a bit more. You dont need it, the filly is a great strop for now.

clarky said:

well the mach 3 demolished my bank balance so something had to give- I wish i'd discovered B&B before attempting to use the razor though... after learning a hell of a lot my technique has improved to the point where I don't get open cuts anymore- just areas of redness and the occasional pin ***** blood spot (which I guess could be from the exposed edges of the blade?) Still enough blood to take me 10 minutes to sort out though, so not exactly get up and go shaving at the moment- I keep meaning to go to another dermatologist but I was once told (by a make up artist) that some red marks on my face could be psoriasis, so maybe this has something to do with my skin getting red?
It's only on the second pass when I get irritation- the first pass is always smooth as silk

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Practice should fix that up. Shavettes are much more agressive than real straights to.

clarky said:

I think I might try this then- but as it stands I don't have to shave every day (one shave lasts me 3 days!! a mach 3 would last a day, and wouldn't remove the 5 o clock shadow), so depending on whether I ever get my student loan sorted out would dictate how much cash I have to spend- because at the moment it's about £90 tops
So it's either cheap straight now/DE or a really nice razor later on (or is it better to have more than one razor, so getting a cheap one now and a nice one later on?)

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get a cheapie for now. After about $30 youre really only paying for nicer scales and finish. An ugly blade, with pitting and scratched scales will shave just as well as that same razor with a mirror finish in custom wood scales

clarky said:

I think you're right- but i'll have a go at making a few bowls of decent lather tomorrow and if I still can't do it after watching 13 tutorials then i'm either an idiot or the soap doesn't work- I've got a sample sized tube of some men-u shave cream, so i'll try that too- from what i've read, I think I wasn't using enough water, because the soap was still clumpy, and not at all like meringue

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Practice at the lather, it takes a bit of getting used to, but before long it will be second nature to get the right ammount of water and agitation for perfect lather every time

clarky said:

thanks- is shaving with a straight much closer than a DE?

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For me, yes. I get much better, longer lasting, with less irriation with a straight than I ever did with a de (or shavette, for that matter)

clarky said:

I think i've got one more chance to get the shave i'm after with the shavette, and if that still isn't giving me the results i'm after then i'll have to decide on whether to go straight or DE (that being said, now the redness has subsided- 6 hours after shave- it's a really great shave, BBS and no noticable cuts, it's just the redness straight after shaving that's the problem)
although I think i've got my heart set on a straight

does anyone have an opinion on this razor http://www.theenglishshavingcompany...ut Throat razors, Strops & Paste@b|0|user||7|
or this package deal
http://ruprazor.com/store/index.php...category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=32

thanks for all the help guys

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Those seem to be pretty good deals - though if it were me, I would get the filly strop and then get a shave ready vintage razor from the BST. They dont make 'em like they used to.

Good luck!

There have been a ton of excellent responses already posted here, so I'm not going to bother to quote them all, but I just want to echo the sentiments of the other (I might add, more experienced), users here:

- The Shavette is a much less forgiving blade. Using a straight you should get less nicks, etc, and the redness and razor burn you encounter should subside. I find that the right straight for me will deliver a shave that is less irritating than a shave from a Merkur 23c (a very mild DE for sure), and still closer.

- The longer shave time is kind of a given. Some of the guys here have gotten their shave times down considerably to the 10 minutes or less range, but that takes a lot of practice. In the fullness of time though.

- The skin stretching thing shouldn't cause wrinkles. If you're that worried about it, don't ever smile, that causes them too .

- If you like the shave with a Shavette enough to suffer through those cuts, you will LOVE the shave with a straight.

I hate to steer anyone away from trying a straight, but I think you should consider getting a DE first. You're pressed for time during the week, so it sounds like it'll be the better overall choice for a while. Meanwhile, you'll stop the blood loss. By all means get a straight next, and use it when you have time.

mdunn said:

For me, yes. I get much better, longer lasting, with less irriation with a straight than I ever did with a de (or shavette, for that matter).

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+1000. No comparison really.

SavantStrike said:

The longer shave time is kind of a given. Some of the guys here have gotten their shave times down considerably to the 10 minutes or less range, but that takes a lot of practice. In the fullness of time though.

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I've got it down to just under 15 minutes. Three passes and BBS. I didn't actively try - I enjoy the shave. That is just how long it takes. On weekends, I consciously slow down.

When I started in on straight shaving I thought "how can this ever be closer and less irritating than a DE or SE". After a few months I do better with a straight than a DE. SE GEM is about the same, or at least very close, I think.

I read a number of posts saying that would eventually come about but truthfully, I had my doubts. No longer!

Chimensch said:

In the UK, I would check out Steve Dempster's sites. He can provide everything you need and he's local. He's also a member here.

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thanks- that's a good site, i'll definitely use them

SiBurning said:

I hate to steer anyone away from trying a straight, but I think you should consider getting a DE first. You're pressed for time during the week, so it sounds like it'll be the better overall choice for a while. Meanwhile, you'll stop the blood loss. By all means get a straight next, and use it when you have time.

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I'll just make time- i'll somehow manage to conjure up an extra hour in the morning I don't need to shave everyday (other than vanity reasons), so I could just one pass it and it'd still be beating my mach 3 (incidentally the reason I stopped shaving, because the patchy 5 o'clock shadow I was getting with the mach looked a lot worse than just trimming to 0.8mm with clippers- BBS smooth is sooo much nicer than patchy mach 3 shave)
plus with 6 months+ of shavette experience I reckon the switch shouldn't be too difficult, not exactly like i'm starting from scratch with a straight

professorchaos said:

I've got it down to just under 15 minutes. Three passes and BBS. I didn't actively try - I enjoy the shave. That is just how long it takes. On weekends, I consciously slow down.

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I would have thought with so much beard/face prep going on (compared to my minimal effort previously) that my skin would be incredibly well cared for, but it seems to have the opposite effect- it appears blotchy and i'm even getting spots- is this just a sign that my skin is getting used to the routing and it will go away, or should I try different products

Robert Paulsen said:

When I started in on straight shaving I thought "how can this ever be closer and less irritating than a DE or SE". After a few months I do better with a straight than a DE. SE GEM is about the same, or at least very close, I think.

I read a number of posts saying that would eventually come about but truthfully, I had my doubts. No longer!

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ah well hopefully i'll be as happy as you with a straight then- i'd never heard of GEM razors before, are they basically just single edge razors


as for a razor- I think i've talked myself out of the two I posted above- 99% sure i'm going to go for this one out the BST http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105205
unless someone thinks it would be a bad choice?
(if someone who reads this post snipes the razor I will actually cry, aha)

as for a strop- it's either the filly, this one http://www.theenglishshavingcompany...ut Throat razors, Strops & Paste@b|0|user||7|
or this one (the hanging strop for £29.95) http://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/stropsbrushessoaps.html
quite like the fact that filly is already pasted, but not sure about the fact it doesn't have a handle- but if you guys think it would be the best one then i'll go for it

thank you so much for your help- you guys really are a great bunch of lads on here

clarky said:

I would have thought with so much beard/face prep going on (compared to my minimal effort previously) that my skin would be incredibly well cared for, but it seems to have the opposite effect- it appears blotchy and i'm even getting spots- is this just a sign that my skin is getting used to the routing and it will go away, or should I try different products.

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Well I am not at dermatologist, haven't even played one on tv. With that in mind, I found shaving with a straight to be very drying if I didn't properly moisturize.

Summer time, I can get away with just a little 444 but in the winter I have to bring out the big guns. Typically then it is Santa Maria Novella's ASB, follow by a thinner balm. If it is really dry and windy, Olivia's balm is really thick and rich.

professorchaos said:

Well I am not at dermatologist, haven't even played one on tv. With that in mind, I found shaving with a straight to be very drying if I didn't properly moisturize.

Summer time, I can get away with just a little 444 but in the winter I have to bring out the big guns. Typically then it is Santa Maria Novella's ASB, follow by a thinner balm. If it is really dry and windy, Olivia's balm is really thick and rich.

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i think i'll have to start doing this then
thanks

do you think this is because shaving with a straight takes off layers of skin/removes skin oil, or something like that

Robert Paulsen said:

When I started in on straight shaving I thought "how can this ever be closer and less irritating than a DE or SE". After a few months I do better with a straight than a DE. SE GEM is about the same, or at least very close, I think.

I read a number of posts saying that would eventually come about but truthfully, I had my doubts. No longer!

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+1, except I am one of the few people here, it seems, that likes a shavette. I am finally getting equally good shaves from a straight, but it took a lot longer to happen and I had to experiment with a few straight razors. Single edges are a great compromise on speed and performance and are cheap to boot.

clarky said:

i think i'll have to start doing this then
thanks

do you think this is because shaving with a straight takes off layers of skin/removes skin oil, or something like that

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It shouldnt if youre lather is right. I mean, the whole shaving thing will get rid of oil, and the brush exfoliates, but it doesnt do it any more than other kinds of shaving. Plus a straight is the ultimate adjustable, you can make it as mild or agressive as you want

mdunn said:

It shouldnt if youre lather is right. I mean, the whole shaving thing will get rid of oil, and the brush exfoliates, but it doesnt do it any more than other kinds of shaving. Plus a straight is the ultimate adjustable, you can make it as mild or agressive as you want

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if i'm 'exfoliating' with the brush (boar hair), is it advisable not to actually use exfoliating face wash in the shower then. Might it be because boar hair is too course for my face?