Belgian Wit Beer - Any Fans?

[Phog Allen]

Good morning gents. I have to be honest. I am usually a straight up English ale/IPA/Irish Stout type of guy. You get the picture; big, malty, hoppy ales with a tonne of flavour. So the wheat beers have never figured into my drinking habits. The small batch or micro brews are head and shoulders above our normal light lagers here in the States. Still, they usually leave me less than satisfied. However, a few weeks ago I tried a Wit beer at a local pub that was just superb. I really didn't know what I was missing out on. I think it was because the coriander really stood out and gave the beer a certain oomph. I will have to ring them up and ask what brand it was. I cannot for the life of me remember what it was. I do remember it was an import and not one our local microbrews. This is a most interesting beer style for me and I would not mind checking differing versions. I have drank the Blue Moon Belgian White and it left me wanting. It was not bad but did not have that coriander note that was so present in the other I tried. I figured with summer waning away a goodly amount of the seasonal microbrews of this style would be disappearing fast. Any good recommnedations? The one I tried locally was draught but I suspect to sample any more I will have to find bottles. BTW, Kansas City's own Boulevard Brewing has a seasonal I may look into. They also just released Two Jokers. A BIG Wit beer in their smokeouse series. Remember to click the Smokehouse link at the top of the page.

Regards, Todd

[Emmett]

Hi Todd,

Where are you located? That will determine what's available to you in bottles. If it was an import you liked, it was likely Hoegaarden. That's the most common imported wit. IN the US, Jolly Pumpkin makes Calabeza Blanca, which I have sampled and found very good. Allagash and Schafly wits are decent, IMO. New Belgium makes Mothership Wit, which is a little bland for my taste but very quaffable. There is the Ommegang Witte, Victory Whirlwind Wit, and the Bell's Winter White, and I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. All these are bottled and except for the Bell's and Victory I think they are all available year-round.

[Gruder]

I had a couple of excellent Wits on a recent trip to Colorado. Seems like Left Hand and Avery made a couple of favorites. I'm like you though, Todd -- I usually don't seek them out.

[Phog Allen]

Well chappies, I am most embarrassed to tell you that I have been completely wrong about what I was drinking that day. It was not a Belgian Witbier. It was a German Hefeweizen. I just called the local Old Chicago where I sampled it and the fellow who answered the phone knew straight away exactly what I was asking about. Now I know Belgian Wits and Hefeweizens are technically different styles but they are very close cousins. When I first tasted the beer I was immediately struck by the warm/spice flavour. It really was quite nice. The server insisted it had a coriander component but I am not sure. After a bit of investigation on the web, I came to realise many hefeweizens are noted for their yeast flavouring rather than adjuncts like coriander. Still, Belgium borders Germany and I am sure there was much mixing of styles. So, now that I have been corrected as to what the product was, would some of you who are fans of the styles please elabourate about the differences, which you prefer, and what adjuncts may be used in either style? The brand was Paulaner Hefeweizen which I gather is nothing too exotic. Still, I quite liked it for the spice aroma and taste. It also seemed to have much more body than the Blue Moon Wit I tried. Thank you and again, sorry for the snafu.

Regards, Todd

[Ru4scuba?]

I lived in Europe for a few years and drank a TON of Hefe while there. Yes, there are countless styles and flavors. I'm a dunkle Hefeweizen fan (dark Wheat Beer). My favorite, which can't be found in the States unfortunately, is from a German monastery called Andechs outside of Munich. MAN could those monks brew a wicked beer!

There was also a local brand close to where I lived called Fallsteiner. Also unavailable here unfortunately.

Paulaner Hefe is a good starting wheat beer, but there are literally thousands of micro and euro types to try.

I suggest you find a well stocked beer store in your area and start sampling. The sky is the limit!

[ClubmanRob]

I'm personally satisfied with the Blue Moon. I'm not a fan of Dark Wheat at all.

[OpusX]

They also just released Two Jokers. A BIG Wit beer in their smokeouse series. Remember to click the Smokehouse link at the top of the page.

Regards, Todd

As a KC local I love most of the Boulevard brews. The Zon is not my favorite, but the new Two Jokers Double Wit is excellent. I would highly recommend it.

[Phog Allen]

Hey that is good information. I have never tried the Zon or the Two Jokers. What was it about the Zon you that made it not so favourite? I really do have to get hold of some of the Smokestack series. The Double Wide IPA sounds smashing.

Regards, Todd

[OpusX]

Hey that is good information. I have never tried the Zon or the Two Jokers. What was it about the Zon you that made it not so favourite? I really do have to get hold of some of the Smokestack series. The Double Wide IPA sounds smashing.

Regards, Todd

I think that the Zon has too much coriander in it making it seem a bit try. I like a wit with a good bitter orange taste, and the Two Jokers has that down pat.

[Phog Allen]

Good morning chaps. I went to watch a pre season football game with a friend last night and picked up a six pack of the Paulaner hefewezen. It was okay but certainly not quite the same as the draught I had at Old Chicago. It did not taste as complex and that warm spice note really did not come through well. Only hints of it from time to time. This was a sampling of three twelve ounce bottles over 4-5 hour period. One with food and the other two without. I poured the beer cold from the fridge as I had seen countless reveiwers recommend for a hefe. It was okay but muted the coriander a lot. I let the glass sit a bit on the nex two and that helped a bit. Overall though, I am a bit unimpressed. The draught version is clearly superior to me. Now who knows, it may just be that my palate and senses were exceptionally clear the day I had it at pub? Maybe but I do think the bottled version simply was not as good. I can see straight away these wit biers and hefeweizens are a bit complex and could be great or...not so great with only a little fiddling with the forumula. Please feel free to ad recommendations for other hefeweizens or wits. Preferably those with a stout dose of the coriander and orange adjuncts.

Regards, Todd

[Edcculus]

I think you are confusing two styles. They are similar, but have very different tastes. What makes them similar is that they are "weizen" beers. Both contain a good bit of wheat malt in the grist. They are also both served "mit hefe", which means with yeast in German. You are supposed to pour most of the beer into a glass, swirl the dregs and pour the rest of the yeast. All weizen styles are cloudy from all the yeast in suspension and the starch haze from wheat. Weizens are all bittered with low AA% noble hops. These are not hop forward beers.

I'll start with Hefeweizen. Traditional grists contain only pilsner and wheat malt. Wheat malt usually equals or exceeds 50%. Hefeweizen contains no spices. The flavors are all yeast driven. Weizen yeasts throw a lot of esters and phenols. Typically people describe them as bananna or clove. Paulaner is an excellent example of this style. Check out the BJCP style guidelines for more info

Witbier is a completely different beast. It also contains a good bit of wheat, but most of it is unmalted. The unmalted wheat gives it a lighter, color and a unique haze. That is why it is called "wit" or "white beer". While Wits derive a good bit of flavor from yeast, there are also a lot of spices involved. Corriander, orange, pepper and grains of paradise to name a few. Witbier is usually drier than Hefeweizen. While Blue Moon is prolific, it is a very bad example of this style. Hoegarden is a great example, since it was responsible for bringing it back into popularity. Check out the BJCP style guidelines for more info.

[Cuttingboard]

Ayinger Brau-Weisse Hefe-Weizen is my favorite, followed by:
Schnieder Organic Hefe-Weizen
Schneider Aventinus
Franziskaner Hefe-Wiesbier

[mr_economy]

Todd,

Free State Brewery has a seasonal Hefeweizen on tap right now. I had a couple yesterday with my parents and they were certainly tasty.

I'll also go in and say I like the Boulevard Zon. Have not yet had the pleasure of tasting the Two Jokers, so I can't compare the two, but the Zon is a dead ringer for my other favorite (and more expensive) wit Hoegaarden.

[boboakalfb]

Great info, Ed! I really enjoy Hoegarden on warm days. In fact, I had a few over the weekend.

[Edcculus]

Oh yea, forgot to add that I love both styles! I have a wit fermenting as we speak. I used orange zest, coriander, black pepper and chamomile. I usually turn weizens around quick, so I should be sampling by the end of the month.

[e d o]

Sierra Nevada's Kellerbier is a very good Hefeweizen and great warm weather quaffer. I bought a case a couple of days ago.

New Belgium's Wit is outstanding and has evolved nicely from what it once was. It really deserved the gold medal it got at the last Great American Beer Festival in Denver, as did Wynkoop for their Hefeweizen.

Some of my other favorite wheat beers:
Schnieder
Andechs
Brooklyn (draft only)
Celis
Hoegarden
Allagash

The collaborations between Brooklyn and Schnieder are pretty interesting. Big and hoppy. I prefer the one brewed in Germany to the US one.

[Phog Allen]

Hi Ed. Thanks for the input. I do realise they are two distinct styles of beer but I did not know hefeweizen had no adjuncts in it. Interesting they have that spice-ish undertone to them. I was certain it did since the flavour was so pronounced in the draught I had at O.C. BTW, the bottled version of he paulaner wasn't nearly as good as the draught. At least to my tastebuds.

Kyle, I assume you are back for another year of college? Free State is so danged good it is really hard for me drink other beers and not find myself doing silly comparisons. They all have their pluses and minuses. I will have to drop by their website and check out the listings. I don't know if it is still available but the C3 IPA was delicious this year. 100+ on the bittering units! It was not just a hop monser though. It had this rounded, almost roasted undertone that made it go down WAY too easy. I think it was due to the cask conditioning. I will have to wait till next weekend or next week though. Free State is insane till classes start.

Regards, Todd

[Edcculus]

Hi Ed. Thanks for the input. I do realise they are two distinct styles of beer but I did not know hefeweizen had no adjuncts in it. Interesting they have that spice-ish undertone to them. I was certain it did since the flavour was so pronounced in the draught I had at O.C. BTW, the bottled version of he paulaner wasn't nearly as good as the draught. At least to my tastebuds.

Yep, thats what makes hefeweizens great. You could be getting some spicy undertones from the hops too. Traditional German hops (especially Saaz) are very "spicy".

What temperature are you serving the bottled version? Too cold and it will dull your pallet. Try letting it sit out for 10 min before opening. Also, are you pouring 3/4 of the beer, swirling the dregs and pouring that into the beer? The yeast adds a great deal of flavor to these types of beer.

Hope that helps.

[Phog Allen]

Okay, here is the routine I used with the bottled Paulaner. The first one was poured straight from the refrigerated bottle. I had seen this championed at various online reviews. Straight away I realised this was a mistake. Like most ales, it was not good at fridge temperatures. It did not allow any of the ethers I normally associate with ales to come forth. A decent rest helped. The next ones went about 15 minutes before drinking. A major improvement. Still, the aroma and especially the flavour did not match the draught version I tried. I also did the 2/3 pour at a 45 degree angle and then swirled the bottle and poured the rest straight in. It makes a nice head but it is not long lasing like a dry stout's head would be. Again, I am somewhat unused to light bodied beers. I have been drinking hoppy bitters, pales, and stouts these last 15 years. I was quite taken with the "spice" undertone of the draught Paulaner. I don't know if spice is correct. It was not edgy like hot mexican or even ginger spice. It was a soft, rounded, warm taste(I am sure the olfactory senses were part of this)that was very apparent from the first sip. I have checked online for hefe information and it seems banana and clove are the predominant notes for these beers and that a cooler fermentation accentuates the clove whilst higher temps bring out the banana. I prefer the clove so would need to check out a brew's specifics before buying. Thanks again Ed and please add more to this thread. Your insights as a brewer are most appreciated.

Regards, Todd

[The Knize]

Ayinger Brau-Weisse Hefe-Weizen is my favorite, followed by:
Schnieder Organic Hefe-Weizen
Schneider Aventinus
Franziskaner Hefe-Wiesbier

Wit, Hefe-Wateizen, anything that calls itself beer, I pretty much like it all. That is a nice list immediately above. Anything by Ayinger is pretty solid, and I do do like the Schneider hefs.

I actually do not find myself as drawn to Belgian beers/ales as many folks seem to be, particularly young people who are really into beer these days. I mean the Trappist beers and the like that are closer to a regular German beers/ales than say the wits or, taking another extreme, lambics. The Belgians frequently taste "dirty" to me. As if they have flavors and aromas that are flaws, when I know the real fan likes them for just those flavors!

Even though I like those dark German beers and I like ales, including hefs, which I do find fascinating, at the end of the day I probably most like Helles and pilsners. Not very creative, I know.