Gentlemen's Essentials: Snus

[ClubmanRob]

I got a message from someone a little while ago who was kind of miffed at the way I described an Icetool. I originally wrote:

while the Icetool is a bulky, heavy stainless steel affair. (One can be seen at the beginning of the video posted above). It must be carried in its own case and is of little use outside of the home unless used for show.

This was not to say that those that own or use an Icetool are trying to look cool or be pretentious. The Icetool can be a handy tool at times, but I always found it to be cumbersome and ungainly.

I found that I always had to carry it in its case due to the way it attracted pocket lint. It caused a severe pocket bulge and weighed down my pants something awful. Of course, I carry a ton of stuff in my pockets so a two pound piece of steel wasn't helping anything. Nor was the plastic case that I found necessary to store it in. I even tried wrapping it up in a handkerchief, but it would still attract dust and fibers in the snus chamber. For something that is supposed to make the task of baking a pris so much easier, I found it to cause too many headaches. The only time I ever found it handy was when my hands were too dirty to bake a pris and I had no sink nearby to wash my hands. These occasions are few and far between, though, and if I had my choice I would carry a weightless, tiny prismaster.

My statement that an Icetool is mainly used for show outside of the home is based on the few snusers I know here in the US and the many that I know in Sweden. Most Swedes I know that have an Icetool are younger folks who very much use the tool to "show off". I want to note that most lös snussers over there look at such tools with disdain.

Here, my friends that have an Icetool seem to thrive on the looks and questions that they get from pulling out what is in essence a stainless steel syringe full of tobacco. This goes against what I was taught concerning proper etiquette involved with snus use. To each their own.

So yes, an Icetool can be a handy tool for someone new to handbaking that doesn't quite have it down pat yet, but also I think it can hinder someone from getting really good at the craft. The great sage philosopher Timmy Boston once wrote that fancy cigar cutters were nice and all- but everyone still should know how to bite the end off of a cigar for those times in which a cutter isn't available. That's the way I feel about Icetools.

So don't hate me anyone! I had an Icetool myself and used it (tried using it anyway) for a while before I went back to handbaking. I wasn't trying to imply that everyone that uses one does so to be a poseur.

[Lynchmeister]

While we're on the subject of Icetools and Prismasters, I caught a couple videos on YouTube that got me curious. In one of the videos, a guy essentially put the prismaster under his lip, and inserted it much like it was a large hypodermic needle. Now after reading Rob's post above and his stainless steel syringe of tobacco metaphor, I'm wondering if this method of injecting the pris directly into/under the lip is the intended methodology? I guess, I just assumed that a person would use it to bake the pris, but then insert it with their hands.

[ClubmanRob]

You're correct, you use the Icetool and the prismaster to insert the pris under your lip. In principal they're designed to keep you from touching the snus at all, aside from compacting the load.

Basically you take your tool (either the Icetool or Prismaster) which both operate like a syringe- that is, there is a hollow chamber and a plunger on the end that compresses the snus inside the chamber. First, you pull back on the plunger to open the chamber up (the further back you pull the plunger, the more snus you load up).You're going to sort of stab the snus can with the tool until you fill the hollow chamber with as much snus as you want. Then you place the opening of the tool on the flat of your hand, and push down on the plunger until your load is compressed. Then you insert the opening under your lip and press the plunger down again until all the snus is released.

Here's a video that better demonstrates the use of an Icetool. The Prismaster functions exactly the same, just in a more basic fashion. The shape of the pris is also different between the two: the Prismaster pris is wider and fatter than the thin, cylindrical shape of an Icetool pris.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXw3Vld7Zgk[/YOUTUBE]

[sol92258]

dang that's a lot of information!

I've tried a few snuffs, the only one I could stand is Hawken, I actually like it quite well.
I'll get a can, but never finish it, since I very very rarely will use it.
I may have to give snus a try - with what I've said, what would you recommend?

[ClubmanRob]

dang that's a lot of information!

I've tried a few snuffs, the only one I could stand is Hawken, I actually like it quite well.
I'll get a can, but never finish it, since I very very rarely will use it.
I may have to give snus a try - with what I've said, what would you recommend?

Hawken is awesome! I don't use much dip anymore, but Hawken is one that I wouldn't hesitate to pick up every now and again. (Just for the record, Hawken utilizes the Swedish method of production, which gives it some of the lowest TSNA numbers out of all the American brands. It's not quite Snus-safe, but it is a damn sight better than Cope or Skoal).

Hawken is kind of unique due to its cut, which is pretty long for a snuff. It's almost like a cross between leaf and dip in its grind. The only Swedish brand I have ever tried that was even remotely close to that texture was Kardus, and unfortunately it has been discontinued in regular production. It was a premium brand, and it still gets released annually in limited batches. (Swedish Match keeps a stockpile of what it considers the cream of the crop in each year's tobacco harvest, and it all gets set aside for the Kardus brand.) It's probably the most unique snus product I have ever tried. It comes out so sporadically, though, it sells out quick, like in a matter of days. Really, it's considered the holy grail of Snus by many of us.

So unfortunately there isn't really anything else to compare Hawken to in the snus world that is more readily available, but I would think that you would probably like Grov lös or Goteborgs Rapé lös. Both are longer cut than average (though a long cut snus is still really fine compared to an American brand). They're both fairly mild in nicotine like the Hawken, and they share a slight similarity in flavor to me (maybe not so much the Grov, but Grov is a brand I always recommend to people that like American dip. Some say it reminds them tastewise of Copenhagen, though I think it tastes more like Hawken, personally).

[sol92258]

Hawken is awesome! I don't use much dip anymore, but Hawken is one that I wouldn't hesitate to pick up every now and again. (Just for the record, Hawken utilizes the Swedish method of production, which gives it some of the lowest TSNA numbers out of all the American brands. It's not quite Snus-safe, but it is a damn sight better than Cope or Skoal).

Hawken is kind of unique due to its cut, which is pretty long for a snuff. It's almost like a cross between leaf and dip in its grind. The only Swedish brand I have ever tried that was even remotely close to that texture was Kardus, and unfortunately it has been discontinued in regular production. It was a premium brand, and it still gets released annually in limited batches. (Swedish Match keeps a stockpile of what it considers the cream of the crop in each year's tobacco harvest, and it all gets set aside for the Kardus brand.) It's probably the most unique snus product I have ever tried. It comes out so sporadically, though, it sells out quick, like in a matter of days. Really, it's considered the holy grail of Snus by many of us.

So unfortunately there isn't really anything else to compare Hawken to in the snus world that is more readily available, but I would think that you would probably like Grov lös or Goteborgs Rapé lös. Both are longer cut than average (though a long cut snus is still really fine compared to an American brand). They're both fairly mild in nicotine like the Hawken, and they share a slight similarity in flavor to me (maybe not so much the Grov, but Grov is a brand I always recommend to people that like American dip. Some say it reminds them tastewise of Copenhagen, though I think it tastes more like Hawken, personally).

yeah, I really like the flavor and not-so-strong taste of Hawken, the others are just overpowering....well, I'm sure if I wanted all the side effects I could get used to them, but I like the flavor - and texture - more than skoal or cope that I've tried. Tried timberwolf, the wintergreen I think, it was okay, but still strong.
like I said, I'm not a heavy user, but once in a while guilty-pleasure type thing.
I'm thinking of trying the wintergreen pouch of the sample link you posted - opinion?

[ClubmanRob]

yeah, I really like the flavor and not-so-strong taste of Hawken, the others are just overpowering....well, I'm sure if I wanted all the side effects I could get used to them, but I like the flavor - and texture - more than skoal or cope that I've tried. Tried timberwolf, the wintergreen I think, it was okay, but still strong.
like I said, I'm not a heavy user, but once in a while guilty-pleasure type thing.
I'm thinking of trying the wintergreen pouch of the sample link you posted - opinion?

I'm not much of a Wintergreen guy, so I'm no good in that department. My fiancee, however, speaks very highly of it. It has a very pure Wintergreen taste from what I gather, and I believe it was the first snus product to have that flavor.

Another option for samples is the Discreet brand, which Ryan pointed out earlier. Fill out this questionnaire and the owner of the company, Tom, will send you samples. (When filling out the questionnaire, just skip over the part about "where do you buy your tobacco/store name/phone number" as I did. Too much crap to fill out). He very promptly sent me eight packs of snus, (two packs each of four different flavors), and I was very impressed with the costumer service. The "Emerald Ice" brand has a Wintergreen flavor, and they're in the mini format which is pretty easy to work with for a new snuser. The other flavors are Peach, Cool Mint and Strawberry.

They're not really my thing, being the typical sugary sweet American style stuff, but I would heartily recommend them before I would the US Camel stuff. Discreet is very professional and courteous company, though, so I wish them the best in the future. (The pouches are really cheap too, .99 a pack.)

Oh, and one more, General's very own website ships out free samples as well, go to http://www.generalsnus.com/ and click on the "Free samples" button up top. It took them forever to ship me my can, but free is free as they say.

[FreezerBurns]

Hey Rob,
Since Red Man is a Swedish Match brand, is Red Man snuff made using the the Swedish method of production?

[ClubmanRob]

Hey Rob,
Since Red Man is a Swedish Match brand, is Red Man snuff made using the the Swedish method of production?

Yes sir, it is. Both the chew and the dip are extremely low in TSNA count. The same could be said for all of Swedish Match's North American brands.

Swedish Match really stepped up to the plate in getting all of their brands, not just their Swedish brands, down to an acceptable standard of safety. All of their products (Red Man included) fall into Gothiatek standards, which stipulate that the TSNA count can never be any higher than 5 ppm. Most snus contains less than 1 ppm, while the fermented American brands are around 3 ppm total quantity. In other companies, the TSNA count can reach triple digit levels.

What irks me about the American companies is that they have known for years the benefits of better processing, but they ignored it for sake of higher profits. Skoal for one has been processing their Bandits using the Swedish method for decades, yet their regular lineup contain some of the highest numbers of TSNA in the industry. (Compare 64 ppm TSNA count in Skoal with 3-7 ppm in Skoal Bandits.)

I'm not one for blind brand devotion or following or anything, but the Swedish Match logo is one I trust.

[Lynchmeister]

Rob, where do you find TSNA count information as it pertains to these brands?

[ClubmanRob]

Here is one study:http://www.starscientific.com/404/Foulds2.pdf

When this study was originally conceived, Swedish Match was still refining its Gothiatek process, and Ettan rated at 2.8 ppm. Ettan's TSNA count is now less than half that amount.

Here's a recap that puts the study into perspective: http://www.snus.name/snus-tsna.php

Brand Country TSNA count
Ettan Sweden 2.8
Offroad Denmark 0.7
Phantom Denmark 0.7
Copenhagen USA 41.1
Skoal, Original fine cut US 14.9
Skoal Bandts Straight US 8.2
Kodiak Wintergreen US 11.0
Hawken Wintergreen US 4.1
Skoal USA 64.0
Timber Wolf USA 7.5
Silver Creek USA 127.9



Recent studies have suggested that American brands are also trying to reduce the number of TSNA's in their products, but many question the validity of these reports being that they test the snuff in a way that is really not representative of the manner in which it is actually ingested. Even in these tests, Swedish brands still rank in the <2.0 territory.

[dwnwrdishvnwrd]

yeah, I really like the flavor and not-so-strong taste of Hawken, the others are just overpowering....well, I'm sure if I wanted all the side effects I could get used to them, but I like the flavor - and texture - more than skoal or cope that I've tried. Tried timberwolf, the wintergreen I think, it was okay, but still strong.
like I said, I'm not a heavy user, but once in a while guilty-pleasure type thing.
I'm thinking of trying the wintergreen pouch of the sample link you posted - opinion?

Rob may not be a wintergreen guy but I am. Generals wintergreen portions are great. They're not overpowering on the wintergreen and they are tasty.

If you're not too keen on something that gonna grab your upper lip and beat it into submission the Catch Eucalyptus is pretty good. It's a white portion snus (so it's dry compared to regular snus) but it moistens up pretty well and the eucalyptus flavor is nice. Goteborgs Rape is also pretty mellow to my tase. It's a juniper berry snus. A lot of snus can also be had in mini portions that are basically half a full portion and they won't knock your block off.

[Lynchmeister]

Thanks for the links, Rob!

[Lynchmeister]

Got my tin of General today! Haven't had a chance to try it yet (or even pop the lid and get a whiff), but I will later today while I'm putzing around on my Linux box with another project I've got cooking.

[ClubmanRob]

Let us know how it goes, Cory. Remember, the first few are the weirdest, it does get better. I promise.

Also, I've been reading this guy's blog lately: www.drsnus.com . It's pretty funny. If ever you wanted to know what Ettan and Hot Sauce tasted like, there you go.

EDIT: Damn it all! Looks like Lucky Strike and Camel won't be getting shipped to the US anymore. RJ Reynolds probably started pressing the copyright issues. RJ Reynolds owns the right to Camel and Lucky in the US, so the Swedish snus being shipped into the US probably violates their trademark rights.

Retro, for all intents and purposes, has been discontinued as well. Goodbye Retro, you were interesting.

Snus Rule #312: Always take many different lovers in the snus realm. Being monogamous to any one brand will only end in heartbreak.

[Lynchmeister]

Just cracked the can and took a whiff. Initial impressions: Copenhagen, black tea, some type of citrus, ammonia.

Confession time. While waiting for my General...yes...I broke down and bought a tin of Camel Frost. Needless to say, I'm excited that the General is here!

Ok. Here we go.

Hmm...taste is faint, but I'm guessing it will build with a bit of time as it moistens up. Again, I'm getting that straightforward tobacco taste (similar to Copenhagen), black tea...the citrus isn't there so much nor is the ammonia (thank God, haha!). I was also expecting a salty kick, but it seems to be lost on me.

Verdict: Enjoyable.

Edit: Ok. She's picking up steam now! I'm still getting used to the "gutting" it part of snus usage and it does irritate the throat just a little bit. Does that improve with time?

Edit #2: About a 1/2 hour in and it continues to evolve. The irritation has decreased significantly, the tobacco taste continues to dominate, and the saltiness is peeking its head out. I've also gotten sucked into Dr. Snus' blog. Great info and humor.

[ClubmanRob]

Just cracked the can and took a whiff. Initial impressions: Copenhagen, black tea, some type of citrus, ammonia.

Confession time. While waiting for my General...yes...I broke down and bought a tin of Camel Frost. Needless to say, I'm excited that the General is here!

Ok. Here we go.

Hmm...taste is faint, but I'm guessing it will build with a bit of time as it moistens up. Again, I'm getting that straightforward tobacco taste (similar to Copenhagen), black tea...the citrus isn't there so much nor is the ammonia (thank God, haha!). I was also expecting a salty kick, but it seems to be lost on me.

Verdict: Enjoyable.

Edit: Ok. She's picking up steam now! I'm still getting used to the "gutting" it part of snus usage and it does irritate the throat just a little bit. Does that improve with time?

Edit #2: About a 1/2 hour in and it continues to evolve. The irritation has decreased significantly, the tobacco taste continues to dominate, and the saltiness is peeking its head out. I've also gotten sucked into Dr. Snus' blog. Great info and humor.

Great write up! It pretty much mirrors the first time I tried snus- except I was more like "blarg! salt!" The throat irritation does go away over time, and I found that spitting it out initially instead of gutting it was a lot more preferable to swallowing the juice.

[Leche]

Snus Rule #312: Always take many different lovers in the snus realm. Being monogamous to any one brand will only end in heartbreak.

Exception; When Ettan is your horse!

[ClubmanRob]

Exception; When Ettan is your horse!

Yeah, Ettan and General are probably the safest bets. Hell, Röda Lacket has 'em all beat.

Speaking of which, I love the new Röda Lacket design. Beats the pants of the old can.

New one:




Old one:

[Leche]

Yeah, Ettan and General are probably the safest bets. Hell, Röda Lacket has 'em all beat.

Speaking of which, I love the new Röda Lacket design. Beats the pants of the old can.

New one:




Old one:

Much better. That last design didn't last very long.