Suggestions for a neophyte whisk(e)y drinker

First off, Jack Daniels or anything with Jack Daniels on the label is not bourbon! It is is Tenesee whisky, which is made using a charcoal filtering process.

I'm not really into scotch, but I do enjoy bourbon.

As far as recommended purchases, I would say the top of your list should be Wild Turkey 101. It is available almost everywhere, and really is a benchmark bourbon to so many people. It really represents what bourbon is all about as a whole. If the high proof scares you a little, don't be afraid to dilute it with some distilled water. Why pay for water already mixed in? It's easy to add water, but very hard to take it away.

Oh, and drink it neat out of a proper glass, like a snifter or whisky nosing glass. Enjoy all of the spicy, vanilla-laiden oaky goodness that bourbon has to offer your nostrils.

Many thanks for the excellent, detailed advice to all who have posted. Most of it appears to be in stock at the local BevMo, so I have lots of great options, and a little spot cleared out in the pantry in anticipation!

A big +1 on the Blanton's. The only bourbon I'm fond of.

Single malts, my suggestion would be Dalwhinnie or Glenkinchie. They are both very gentle and friendly. The blue-tip Super Speeds of malts.

Any suggestions for a fan of Jim Beam Black? It's about the extent of my bourbon knowledge.

Christopher said:

Any suggestions for a fan of Jim Beam Black? It's about the extent of my bourbon knowledge.

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Grab a bottle of Booker's. Jim Beam makes it and it's not too expensive. It's like taking Black label up a notch.

rawbrey said:

Grab a bottle of Booker's. Jim Beam makes it and it's not too expensive. It's like taking Black label up a notch.

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Black is a a fine whiskey for the price...but you might consider Maker's Mark, which adds some winter wheat to the mix, for a taste that in many ways resembles Black, but is a bit more complex and dances on the tongue well.

Bookers...a good product as well...just take your time with it and learn to SIP!

Also (keeping in the same Beam family as Maker's, Bookers, Black...you might try Knob Creek.

Don't be afraid to mix it with a little water. Knob Creek is an excellent buy.

Old Grand Dad would be an interesting choice, as well...


Dalmore, Laphroaig...both excellent, but I prefer the Dalmore-- just my palate.

OH GOD! I'm trapped in the house of Beam!

Bulleit Bourbon
Elmer Lee Bourbon
Evan Williams (single barrel)

Mr. Gillette said:

Also (keeping in the same Beam family as Maker's, Bookers, Black....

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Not to be rude, but Maker's Mark is an entirely different entity than the beam line.

rkowalick said:

Not to be rude, but Maker's Mark is an entirely different entity than the beam line.

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Different mash bill, different yeast, etc. but "Beam Global" did recently acquire ownership of Makers Mark.

ILLfarmboy said:

Different mash bill, different yeast, etc. but "Beam Global" did recently acquire ownership of Makers Mark.

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Thanks, IL farmboy...that feller there wasn't rude...just ignorant...nothing wrong with ignorance! (Stupidity is something else, but I haven't encountered that here yet!)

Yep...thanks for the D-fence!

mflemming said:

A big +1 on the Blanton's. The only bourbon I'm fond of.

Single malts, my suggestion would be Dalwhinnie or Glenkinchie. They are both very gentle and friendly. The blue-tip Super Speeds of malts.

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Seeing that you enjoy Blanton's, I will try the Dalwhinnie and Glenkinchie next. Thanks for steering me that way.

as for bourbon I tend towards Blantons about 90%, the other 10% goes to Bullit and Elmer T Lee

scotch I am a little all over the place. Scotch and Bourbons pair up nicely to how you are feeling that day. Some days you want something light, sweet, and bright...some days you want something soothing, mentally relaxing, medium but creamy...some days you want something that will knock your socks off...and some days you want something to reflect deeply with.

Suggestions:

Glencraig
Glenesk
Strathisla (1968 35 yrs) you can sit back and think of each year, month, day...
Knockando 1982 (creamy and smooth)
Lagavulin 16 yr (smokey but great with a pipe or cigar)
Oban

(will add more details tomorrow, its late and I am just hitting some highlights)


*** Find some local scotch and bourbon tastings. You can try a lot that way and really start to sort though what really appeals to you and why.

Below are some excepts from old private messages I've sent out when members have requested bourbon and scotch info from me. It's not tailormade to your questions, but will give you a place to start.

For starters whether I drink bourbon or Scotch, 99% of the time, I drink it neat and at room temperature. I find that the flavor is at its fullest. Others add just a drop or two of water to open up the spirit, I find this especially true with Scotch, primarily Islay Scotch. But IMO, while it does improve the nose, it detracts sllightly from the taste, but there are others who disagree so I would try it both ways and see what suits you. Others drink it on the rocks or having been stored in the freezer, I find this either dilutes or just alters the taste so much that many subtleties are missed because there is too much water or the spirit is too cold. Basically I relate it red wine, very cold red isn't very good, but you let it warm up a bit and it gets much better.
Another thing, that I had a hard time with when I first began to experiment with whiskey is the size of a sip. I take a very small sip, probably smaller than others. You think about beer, beer is bitter, you really almost need a good sized gulp to appreciate all the flavors and have it coat your entire palate. With wine the taste is smaller, and with whiskey its even smaller. Initially this also helps you adjust to drinking such a strong proof beverage by itself and also I've found that with a small sip I can roll it around and really absorb all those amazing tastes. Also especially their are some bourbons made with amazing high proofs. George T. Stagg is one that comes to mind the last two releases have both been 140 proof. They are actually so high you can't take them on an airplane because they are classified as an explosive. But these bourbons are so well made that they are best enjoyed neat, but for these at first I recommend that you merely wet your lips, just to adjust to the high proof. I had a friend tell me that I didn't listen and I thought my mouth was going to catch on fire. But now, they are one of my favorite bourbons and argueably the best made today.

Bourbon:
Some of my favorite bourbons are made by Van Winkle. They are a well established, very well respected bottler and always viewed amongst the best available. I have never had a product from them that I didn't enjoy and I've had them all. My favorite of theirs is their Van Winkle Special Reserve 12 year Lot B (there is no Lot A, C or anything else). It's a 12 year old bourbon and is about 90 proof. All of their products are wheat bourbons. Made is corn, malted barley and wheat. (Most other bourbons are made with rye instead of wheat) In most cases wheaters are sweeter and the Lot B is no exception. It runs anywhere from $35 to $50 depending on where you life. I find this bourbon to be both a great value and a remarkable product. It was my first high end bourbon I ever bought and still one of my favorites. They also make a Pappy 15 year old Family Reserve which runs about $55 and is 107 proof, this is one of the woodier bourbons around, meaning that is has a somewhat strong oaky flavor, this is one of the only whiskeys that I do enjoy with just a touch of water, I find that is lessens the woody taste and brings out more complexity. For it's age, The Pappy 15 is one of the best bourbon values out there. Finaly there is a 10 year model called Old Rip Van Winkle 10 year, this bottling comes in both a 90 proof and 107 proof variety. The 107 is a few dollars more, but I have found it to be well worth the extra 4-6 dollars. Another top notch whiskey.
Wild Turkey also makes some very fine products as well, most people have seen their standard, Wild Turkey 101 proof, I'm not a huge fan, but it is still a decent pour. But for my money, I would rather upgrade to their Rare Breed, a single barrel selection, (meaning that what's in the bottle came from only one barrel so every bottle can be different, in most cases, all the their whiskey is put together and mixed, then bottled, so every bottle is identical.) Personally, I have found every bottle of Rare Breed that I've bought to be identical, but there are some out there that can easily tell them apart, but they have a far more sophisticated palate than I do. The Rare Breed, $35, is stronger and it doesn't hurt this one to add a touch of water either, it runs around 108 proof. It has strong notes of citrus and oak, along with maple syrup and brown sugar. An excellent bourbon. Another choice they have is their Russell's Reserve, this used to be bottled at 101 proof and you can still find the 101 proof bottles occasionally, this is another stronger, woodier whiskey and an excellent product. Their current verson of Russell's Reserve, $30, is 90 and is sweet and more delicate, but also quite good. And finally their is Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit, their premium selection aside from limited edition bottlings. The Kentucky Spirit, $45 is a very refined whiskey almost gentle in nature. It is another excellent product and very, very good. Personally I like the robustness of the Rare Breed and the Russell's Reserve better than the Kentucky Spirit, but there are many, many out there who disagree.
Buffalo Trace distillery owns many labels and releases many products. They are a fine company with a well deserved reputation for excellence. Their house label, Buffalo Trace is a 4 year old 90 proof whiskey that runs about $16, and it's a great value. This is something that is nice to have on hand, it's cost is low enough that you can mix it and it is good enough to drink neat. A very good whiskey and an excellent starter whiskey for one really wanting to appreciate bourbon. In addition this Buffalo Trace also makes what they call their Antique Collection, 5 ultra premium bottling of outstanding whiskey all running between $50-$60 dollars a bottle. George T. Stagg mentioned above is a member of the Antique Collection. Stagg is a truly superb bourbon and an excellent offering to guests, but remember very small sips Stagg (and Pappy 15) goes great with a cigar as well. I find many whiskey can break down and get astringent tasting when accompanied with a cigar, but Stagg definately will not. This one also can hold up to being diluted, but I highly recommend if you pick one up, at least try it straight, it's a superb flavor and unlike any other product out there. Stagg usually has strong notes of chocolate, leather, oak and lots of sweetness, maple syrup, brown sugar, honey as well.
If you are interested in Rye Whiskey, same as bourbon, but made with at least 51% rye instead of corn, I'd look into Sazerac Rye, another member of the Antique Collection, an 18 year old rye bottled at 90 proof. It is a astounding product and an excellent example of what great rye whiskey is. I honest can't put into words exactly what rye tastes like, but I really enjoy it. Nearly every year either the current Stagg or the Sazerac release are chosen as Malt Advocates American Whiskey of the Year and they deserve the awards.

For some more moderated priced bourbons, I recommend Evan Williams 1783, it's a 10 year old, 86 proof rye heavy bourbon that is very smooth and actually have some warm fresh bread flavors. It runs around $10 is very, very good. Something always nice to have on hand.
Old Forrester 100 proof, runs around 13, has very classic bourbon flavors and is also very good.
Weller 12 Year Old Bourbon runs about $17 is an amazing value, it's very similar to the Van Winkle Lot B mentioned above as they are both wheated bourbon and the same age, but it is not as refined as the Lot B, but it is half the price.

Scotch:
Scotch is an entirely different animal, bourbon and Scotch are always lumped together. But other than their appearance that is about as close as they are. I really love Scotch and I would say that I prefer it to bourbon. There is an air of sophistication to Scotch that doesn't exist in the rustic charm of bourbon. I am not very knowledgable about blended Scotch at all. There are two primary types of Scotch, Single Malt, made of 100% malted barley and within one distillery. Then there are blends, made of different single malts and combined with other aged grain spirits, either corn, rye or wheat. Most serious Scotch drinkers prefer Single Malt, but Blended sells much better and provides much more income and is cheaper to make. Another term is peat. Peat is decomposted heather, harvested in blocks in Scotland and used as a fuel source that fire the kilns that dry out the barley before it is distilled. Peat adds a smokey flavor and the single malts from the Isle of Islay contain the most amount of peat and thus the smokiest flavor. Peat is often viewed as an acquired taste or a "love it or hate it" thing. I personally love heavily peated Scotch, but many do not. All Scotch is peated at least mildly, with the exception of Glengoyne, but most mainland Scotches, (highland, lowland, speyside, Campelltown) have low levels and the smokey taste is very minimal.
The most famous of the blends being Johnnie Walker. I have had the Gold, which is a warm, spicy somewhat peated blend, running around $65. It is a very nice blend and my favorite of all blends, but a superior single malt can be found for less money. The other blend I have had is Johnnie Walker Blue, their top of the line 25 year old. It runs around $225, but can be found online as low as $145. I have never paid for it a friend gave me a dram. Personally I find this product to be the most overrated whisky in the world. I mean that. The Gold is much better and less than half the cost. The Blue is very soft and mellow, but not worth anywhere near the money, IMO.


Single Malts:
The most common and best starter Single Malt, IMO is Glenlivet 12 year. This is a very lightly peated, light floral Scotch with notes of apple and peach. It runs around $30 and if you want to get into Scotch, this is what I recommend. It will mix well with soda, but is much better IMO just neat in a glass. While it is common to see people drink bourbon on the rocks, very few Scotch drinkers drink Scotch on the rocks and what I've read is really frowned upon in Scotland. Glenlivet is an excellent product, and I highly recommend you pick up a bottle. If you've never really drank Scotch, I will warn you, the flavor is unlike anything else on earth. It took me a few glasses before I began to like it. Now I love the stuff. Glenlivet is a very good representation of many of the flavors that can exist in Scotch and will help get you acclimated.
Another extremely popular Scotch is a highland called MaCallan. This is aged in former Sherry casks and has many Sherrylike flavors. Personally I don't like Sherry, so I'm not a huge fan, but it is an excellent representation of the Speyside region of the highlands. They also now make a Fine Oak range aged in formed bourbon barrels, which I have heard good things about but am yet to try. MaCallan has grown tremendously in the last few years and thusly their prices have also climbed quite a bit.
The Islands of Scotch is where IMO the finest Scotches come from, these also have the highest levels of peat. One of my favorites is from the Orkney Islands called Highland Park, I have had the 12 year, 18 year and the 25 year. The 25 is probably the finest tasting thing I've ever had but at $300 a bottle, definately costly. The 12 year and most common runs around $40 and has strong flavors of heather, honey and some peat. An absolutely wonderful pour one of my favorites. The 18 is very similar to the 12 but more refined, it's around $80 and the 12 year is a better value.
Talisker is from the Isle of Skye and it's known for it's spicy peppery flavor, it is definately a winter warmer and has been described as volcanic. It was the favorite Scotch of Robert Louis Stevenson and their 18 year old is one of the key ingredients in Johnnie Walker Gold. Their 18 is sweet and smoky with notes of lemongrass and a spicy punch the the end, it runs around $60. They also have a 10 year old runs around $45 and is much bolder and more brazen than the 18 also has more maritime notes, it tastes peatier and has more pepper.
The Islays are my favorite whiskies. They are all known for their smoky and salty characters. Lagavulin, a very famous and well respected distillery makes a 16 year old that is viewed as one of the best. It has lots of salt, iodine and smoke.
Ardbeg, the smokiest of all Scotch, makes a very powerful 10 year old that smells like a bonfire and tastes like a BBQ. It's really quite good. It runs around $45. They also make a whiskey called Uigeadail, which is a mixture of the 10 some 17ish year old whisky and some nearly 30 year old whisky. One of the best around. Very smoky and intensely complex.
Laphroaig makes my favorite of all whiskies, the Laphroaig 15, it is a very robust, sweet heathery, smokey peat monster, with a distinctly medical character of iodine. It doesn't sound good, but it's resplendent. This is also Scotto's favorite single malt. Laphroaig also makes a 10 year old, which is even smokier and more medicial. This is definately a love it or hate it whisky. It's about $35 and really good.

I hope I've helped. I had no idea how much you know so I hope you don't feel as if I was talking down to you, but I wanted to try to explain everything, I doubt I did, but I tried. Please let me know if this is of any help or if I could be of any assistance. Also if I haven't answered what you wanted, I apologize, let me know and I'll be better next time.

That's a ton of useful info, thanks! I was at BevMo the other day and had a bottle of Buffalo Trace in my hand, but then ended up putting it back down because Boodle's was on sale and I determined that clearly it was Providence! They had Woodford as well though it was a bit more expensive, and I didn't see Blanton's at all.

So, it's on my list for next time. I would have purchased them both, but I don't want my wife to kill me when she sees the damages for the various acquisition disorders that I seem to have become afflicted with since joining this forum, not to mention my other vices (books, etc.) It's all I can do to stay away from fountain pens and other things - curse you, B&B!

The Scotch will probably be the last acquisition, as it seems to be the most expensive. I do cringe a bit at the thought of buying a $25 or $30 bottle of something that I may not like, although I imagine I could find some people who might gladly give it a home if I didn't care for it...

mental said:

That's a ton of useful info, thanks! I was at BevMo the other day and had a bottle of Buffalo Trace in my hand, but then ended up putting it back down because Boodle's was on sale and I determined that clearly it was Providence! They had Woodford as well though it was a bit more expensive, and I didn't see Blanton's at all.

So, it's on my list for next time. I would have purchased them both, but I don't want my wife to kill me when she sees the damages for the various acquisition disorders that I seem to have become afflicted with since joining this forum, not to mention my other vices (books, etc.) It's all I can do to stay away from fountain pens and other things - curse you, B&B!

The Scotch will probably be the last acquisition, as it seems to be the most expensive. I do cringe a bit at the thought of buying a $25 or $30 bottle of something that I may not like, although I imagine I could find some people who might gladly give it a home if I didn't care for it...

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Start off with Buffalo Trace. IMO Woodford is crap, go to straightbourbon.com a bourbon forum, and it gets consistent bad reviews over there as well. Woodford is one of those products that a lot of people praise because they have read some older great reviews, Woodford used to make a top notch product with a slightly different recipe, their method has now changed and has plumeted way down. It's got a fairly hefty price tag as well and that makes it comparitively worse. Just my recommendation, but don't waste your money on it. Lagavulin 16 often falls into this category as well, up until the late 90's Lagavulin was made at the White Horse Distillery and produced some of the finest Scotch ever, but since then, they shut down White Horse and now distill at Port Ellen, which still makes a good product but is NOWHERE NEAR the White Horse. People still quote Michael Jackson's 95 point review of Lagavulin 16 but this is only for a product that is no longer made, and not the stuff you'll find at a liquor store today.
Blanton's is good, but IMO overpriced. I think it should be in the $30-33 range considering what you get. For the price they charge for Blanton's you can get some better stuff.

That would explain why the last time I looked at Woodford Reserve here in OK to buy some and it was under $20 a bottle. DANG IT. I really liked that one the first time I tried it a few years ago.

You might look at Corner Creek. I found it to be smoother and better tasting than Maker's Mark or Knob Creek. And it's less expensive than Knob Creek. But as always YMMV!

mental said:

That's a ton of useful info, thanks! I was at BevMo the other day and had a bottle of Buffalo Trace in my hand, but then ended up putting it back down because Boodle's was on sale and I determined that clearly it was Providence! They had Woodford as well though it was a bit more expensive, and I didn't see Blanton's at all.

So, it's on my list for next time. I would have purchased them both, but I don't want my wife to kill me when she sees the damages for the various acquisition disorders that I seem to have become afflicted with since joining this forum, not to mention my other vices (books, etc.) It's all I can do to stay away from fountain pens and other things - curse you, B&B!

The Scotch will probably be the last acquisition, as it seems to be the most expensive. I do cringe a bit at the thought of buying a $25 or $30 bottle of something that I may not like, although I imagine I could find some people who might gladly give it a home if I didn't care for it...

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I would definitely pick up the Buffalo Trace. Lucky for you Bevmo just started carrying it. I have ordered it from out of state and would have done it again if it weren't available locally now. It is a great pour, at a great price.

I managed to get my hands on some Buffalo Trace today. Bear in mind that I really haven't acquired a taste yet, so the first few sips I was sort of ambivalent about. Then I set my glass down for a bit to do some things and came back to it maybe 5 or 10 minutes later. When I lifted the glass to my nose, the first thing I noticed was a great scent that reminded me somewhat of sweet things like honey and vanilla. I took a sip and did a better job of coating my tongue, and I thought the taste was noticeably better.

I don't know if it was the drink warming up a bit, or being exposed to the air, or what, but I started to get a better feel for the character of the drink. It was intriguing enough to make me want to try some more, so hopefully I'm on my way to getting a taste for it. Thanks to everyone for their help so far.

Bourbon: If you like Blanton's, you must try Old Rip Van Winkle 15 Years (around $45).

Scotch: I have several bottles of Compass Box. Highly recommended. Looks for them all, but you must grab either Hedonism or the Peat Monster.