How hard can it be to make a good lather

Good day everyone. I have been a wet shaver for years. I had a brieft stint for a year or so with an electric shaver about 10 years ago, but otherwise have been using cartridges and gels for the last 20 years.

I recently became interested in DE shaving and using a brush with soap/cream. As a result, I started doing some research and started putting together a list.

I expressed some interest in DE shaving to my wife prior to Christmas and passed along some hints as to specific products I wanted. Before I had the chance to finish making a list she started poking around herself. She's a big fan of etsy.com (a handcraft site) and came across some soap and a brush there. I received the following:

A stand for my new razor and brush
A merkur 38C safety razor
Some derby blades
Some Proraso after shave balm

This brush and soap:
http://www.spinalhelix.com/dirtyzen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=55&zenid=1jpq95eqnhapmjqv7m1rtpf681

OK, so what's my question/problem???

Well, I can't seem to make a good lather. I've read through the tutorial's on this site and watched the mantic59 videos. While I can get my brush to look like it should before starting to whip it in the bowl and while I can get a good amount of lather produced in the bowl, that's about where the similarity ends.

I apply the lather to my face and it is quite thin and disappears before I can even get through half my face. While I have gotten some OK shaves the last few days, I know I should be able to get better. I've had to reapply frequently and it just doesn't seem to work well.

So, here's my question:

1. Is it the brush? It's a boar brush of unknown origin - not sure where this dirtydeedsoap guy sources them from.
2. Is it the soap?
3. Is it my technique?
4. Is it a combination of all three?
5. Should I use my shave gel for a week to at least get the DE shaving part down and then work on the lather again?
6. Should I order up a new brush, like an Edwin Jagger best badger and some proraso cream?

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I'm intent on getting this thing going in the right direction.

Thanks,
McP

Don't get too worried. It takes time to get the ratio of soap or cream to water right. You'll find that the amount of water varies by product, but in general you'll do better to start with a well shaken brush and ADD water as you go. That way you can adjust the texture of the soap or cream more easily.

You may want to mix up a batch in the evening when you have plenty of time so you can experiment a bit. Soon you'll have the consistency you need for a great shave.

Beer Shaving Soap

ingredients:
olive oil
coconut oil
soybean oil
palm oil
shea butter
beer
bentonite clay
water
lye

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It's probably the soap. Olive oil is a bad sign, and so is the clay. Here are some products that you can probably find locally, if you are in the US: Proraso / Bigelow cream, Real Shaving Company cream, or Kiss My Face cream. You should also be able to find the Van Der Hagen soaps.

Welcome to B&B!

It sounds like you are not using enough product. Charge your brush more or use more shaving cream. Link to the tutorials: http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Lathers

Edit: Just saw the above post. Yes, Olive oil isn't that good in shaving soap. You could get a workable lather from it but it will be very very difficult. I would recommend getting something like Proraso.

Welcome to B&B!

It sounds like you have too much water in the mix.

Thanks for the quick feedback. While the soap smells really nice I think I'll try picking up something local and give that a try. Interesting that this guy makes most of his soaps with olive oil, yet that's a bad idea. Can anyone provide any more detail as to why olive oil in a shaving soap (or clay for that matter) isn't a good idea? I like to be educated as opposed to simply taking things at face value (no pun intended...)

McP

As I understand it, the chains of fatty acids in olive oil are too short, and so the lather won't come together. There's a good thread on the subject somewhere: I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Shave_Soaps has some good info, but I was thinking of http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=123895 - and http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=126157 is good too.

mblakele said:

As I understand it, the chains of fatty acids in olive oil are too short, and so the lather won't come together. There's a good thread on the subject somewhere: I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Shave_Soaps has some good info, but I was thinking of http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=123895 - and http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=126157 is good too.

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Awesome. I just read through the first few posts of those threads and have more than enough of the detail I was looking for. Thanks a bunch. Funny how I did a search with the keyword olive oil and didn't come across those - or at least didn't notice them.

Looks like some new soap is in order.

McP

i do about 20 spins on the tip of the brush and about 20 spins deep into the brush, pushing down hard getting the soap all nice and deep like.

I had the advantage of knowing what I was looking for, and remembering a user name from the discussion. My search was http://www.google.com/search?q=site:badgerandblade.com+soapbox+lather+chain

Now I don't feel so bad...

Thought I'd post an update...

I ordered up a bowl of the Trumper Eucris soap and an Edwin Jagger best badger medium.

I tried out the soap last night (continued using the boar brush I have) and wow, what a difference. I used the exact same technique I had been using with the dirtydeeds soap and immediately saw a difference. As I was whipping in the bowl it was much thicker and didn't have the same soapy consistency - had more of a creamy consistency.

Now, the lather did last a good deal longer, but it didn't go on as thick as I would have liked. So, clearly there is some room for improvement in my technique. I did, however, have the most enjoyable shave yet with three passes (WTG, XTG, ATG) and didn't have a single nick. I've spent most of the day admiring the fact that I have no irritation and that my face, 24 hours later, is just slightly less smooth (rubbing with the grain) as it is 3 hours after I would shave with my 5-blade gillette. DE, where have you been all my life

So, the question I have... Should I try the new badger brush out - I can still return it? I mean, it looks and feels much nicer than the boar, but will it impact my lather production significantly?

Thanks,
McP

mcpell said:

Thought I'd post an update...

I ordered up a bowl of the Trumper Eucris soap and an Edwin Jagger best badger medium.

I tried out the soap last night (continued using the boar brush I have) and wow, what a difference. I used the exact same technique I had been using with the dirtydeeds soap and immediately saw a difference. As I was whipping in the bowl it was much thicker and didn't have the same soapy consistency - had more of a creamy consistency.

Now, the lather did last a good deal longer, but it didn't go on as thick as I would have liked. So, clearly there is some room for improvement in my technique. I did, however, have the most enjoyable shave yet with three passes (WTG, XTG, ATG) and didn't have a single nick. I've spent most of the day admiring the fact that I have no irritation and that my face, 24 hours later, is just slightly less smooth (rubbing with the grain) as it is 3 hours after I would shave with my 5-blade gillette. DE, where have you been all my life

So, the question I have... Should I try the new badger brush out - I can still return it? I mean, it looks and feels much nicer than the boar, but will it impact my lather production significantly?

Thanks,
McP

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I do not know if you can return the badger brush, you should check with the person/vendor that sold it to you.

Will it impact how you make lather to change brush? Absolutely. Keep in mind that you are changing tool, there will be a slight adjustment. Also, if the knot is bigger or smaller, you will need more/less product. I would say, keep your current brush and try to charge it a bit more (5-10 seconds more on top of what you do at the moment).

I got it off Amazon, they let you return most things AFAIK.

I'm starting to wrestle with the inexorable urge to buy things... My wife saw the nice black wooden bowl the new soap came in and said, "How much was the soap?" I said, "Why do ask?" She said, "It looks expensive, what was it, like $20?" I said, "Yeah, about that." What's $15 between friends, right

Now I'm contemplating whether I keep the brush. What's next - a 100 blade sampler pack, a case for the razor when I travel, a scuttle...

Try making lather on face or palm with both brushes. I find face lathering better at controlling water/soap ratio to get the lather constancy. Maybe you like the feel of badger brush on the face than boar, visa versa.

I know others have chimed in, but my advice is don't be afraid if you see olive oil shaving soap. I have 2 pucks of some olive oil/clay shaving soap (from ltlsuz on ebay... lemongrass and rootbeer scented) and they lather really great!

And I'm jealous of your GFT Eucris, the black bowl looks so dang sexy! I'll have to get it sometime. And yeah, whenever you tell her the price, round down. Round down a couple times

I wouldn't say I'm "afraid" of olive oil shave soap. I will likely try the one my wife got me again at some point once I've built up some confidence/skill/technique in lather making. Perhaps not all olive oil soaps are created equal as well. As always YMMV. I was just getting really frustrated and with one switch was able to reduce that frustration level way down which was the goal at the end of the day.

As to the GFT Eucris I'll say it was rather impulsive, but I read the reviews on here and by all accounts it just sounded nice and supposedly made a good lather so I figured I'd give it a try.

mcpell said:

I got it off Amazon, they let you return most things AFAIK.

I'm starting to wrestle with the inexorable urge to buy things... My wife saw the nice black wooden bowl the new soap came in and said, "How much was the soap?" I said, "Why do ask?" She said, "It looks expensive, what was it, like $20?" I said, "Yeah, about that." What's $15 between friends, right

Now I'm contemplating whether I keep the brush. What's next - a 100 blade sampler pack, a case for the razor when I travel, a scuttle...

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2 Funny!

All olive oil based shaving soaps that I tried did not produce good lather. I would suggest looking for shaving soaps that do not contain olive oil...