Foie Gras

[mdunn]

The cheese thread got me thinking. Do any of you gents eat Foie Gras, or are there any guys who avoid it because of the way its made?

[Luc]

The stuff is good, but, you got to eat a tiny bit! I always need to have good stuff with moderation! :rolleyes:

[Laz]

I know nothing about it. How is it made?

[mdunn]

I know nothing about it. How is it made?

its a super fatty duck or goose liver made through a process of force feeding called gavage

[SRock]

Never tried it. Rare to be honest. I usually try just about anything I can.

[gone down south]

its a super fatty duck or goose liver made through a process of force feeding called gavage


If you avoid the biased propaganda from both sides of the issue, it turns out that most people who've studied the issue with no preconceived agenda conclude that forcefeeding a duck or goose is less cruel and painful than any other factory feeding process. If you can live with the way cows and chickens are treated at most farms, you can more than safely eat foie gras in good conscience.

[mdunn]

Never tried it. Rare to be honest. I usually try just about anything I can.

if you see it - try it. (its french, so probably not in japan)


If you avoid the biased propaganda from both sides of the issue, it turns out that most people who've studied the issue with no preconceived agenda conclude that forcefeeding a duck or goose is less cruel and painful than any other factory feeding process. If you can live with the way cows and chickens are treated at most farms, you can more than safely eat foie gras in good conscience.

I agree, I am solidly on the 'delicious' side - just trying to explain what it is.

[Nishnabotna]

If you avoid the biased propaganda from both sides of the issue, it turns out that most people who've studied the issue with no preconceived agenda conclude that forcefeeding a duck or goose is less cruel and painful than any other factory feeding process. If you can live with the way cows and chickens are treated at most farms, you can more than safely eat foie gras in good conscience.

I don't eat factory cows or chickens, so factory geese are also probably out of the question.

[Suzuki]

Its both delicious and cruel - I love the stuff and my rationalization is that if geese had larger brains and opposable thumbs, they'd not hesitate to turn our livers into a yummy snack.

I'm fortunate in that I have access to good Quebec foie gras, as well as the French stuff.

[ouch]

It's one of the best tasting foods on Earth. If you want a poll about foie gras, the question shouldn't be delicious vs. cruel, it should be duck vs. goose.

[blantyre]

I don't think this poll is meaningful - delicious and cruel are not mutually exclusive or even shades of grey, so my answer is "both", like veal and some authentic sushi dishes. Great foie gras is one of the best things imaginable. Chicago banned it for a time but I don't believe the ban was ever enforced - it just raised the price even more!

[Commander Quan]

Can I vote for both? It is delicious, I just had it for the first time in April at Michael Symon's restaurant in Cleveland. I'm not usually a tree or animal huger but the way the animal is fed really makes me uncomfortable.

[renoles]

I like it...I get to eat it once in a blue moon though due to expense. Did find a shop that will let me buy a small package of Grade A slices though.

[Confuzius]

I think like all meat products some producers will be crueler than others.
I've only had it once, but it was great.

I was raised as a vegetarian for "moral" reasons, when I started eating meat, I realized that discriminating veal or foie gras just because of it's production methods was preposterous and hypocritical. We kill animals and eat their muscles and organs and they're delicious. There's no difference in how it's done, just don't pretend that your chicken breast or steak didn't come from a living creature, because that's much more barbaric and disrespectful to the animal than force feeding it and eating it's delicious fatty bits.

[professorchaos]

Delicious. Ambrosia.


It's one of the best tasting foods on Earth. If you want a poll about foie gras, the question shouldn't be delicious vs. cruel, it should be duck vs. goose.

Well, which one? Duck or goose? I think that duck works better in hot preparations while good goose does better in cold. We are, of course, splitting hairs. I'll take either seared, poached, cured, in a terrine, hot, cold, lukewarm

[aodenkou]

Great stuff - but just by it's self it's almost too much. But I do love baby cows and baby pigs as well :-)

Member in good standing of PETA
(people eating tasty animals)

[masonjarjar]

I don't think I've ever been anywhere that it was being served or on the menu so it hasn't been an issue. I've never been with anyone that was eating it. I doubt I would try it. There are lots of other things to eat.

[pablo_h]

Never tried it, and don't really want to.
I don't like liver and I don't like any type of meat from fowl anyway.

[professorchaos]

Great stuff - but just by it's self it's almost too much. But I do love baby cows and baby pigs as well :-)

Member in good standing of PETA
(people eating tasty animals)

Reminds me of a Ted Nugent quote:

"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak."

[mdunn]

It's one of the best tasting foods on Earth. If you want a poll about foie gras, the question shouldn't be delicious vs. cruel, it should be duck vs. goose.

duck slightly wins it for me, though goose fat is great for cooking generally


I don't think this poll is meaningful - delicious and cruel are not mutually exclusive or even shades of grey, so my answer is "both", like veal and some authentic sushi dishes. Great foie gras is one of the best things imaginable. Chicago banned it for a time but I don't believe the ban was ever enforced - it just raised the price even more!

I agree, thats why you can vote for both on the poll. Its so hard to find retail in australia that im pretty sure its banned here too :frown:

[Mysterion]

Well, this certainly opens up a can of worms, along with a streak of predictable vegetarian-baiting. I'll bite:

I've been a vegetarian for 35 years. I don't pretend to speak for all vegetarians, not should PETA or any other entity. I've made a choice, based on my own values and reasoning. It would be silly to argue that humans are not naturally evolved as omnivores; our dentition and digestive tracts make that clear. However, we have also evolved critical reasoning facilities--admittedly some of us more than others--and we no longer live in a state of nature. We have the luxury of making choices.

I'm not maligning anyone for making a mindful dietary/lifestyle decision; I do see some lopsided logic at work here:

...discriminating veal or foie gras just because of it's production methods [is] preposterous and hypocritical. We kill animals and eat their muscles and organs and they're delicious. There's no difference in how it's done...
Jordan, I respect your decision, but question your reasoning. This strikes me as an "end justifies the means" argument. Raising animals for food is one thing; doing so with no regard for the quality of stewardship seems base and thoughtless. At the risk of seeming even more pompous, I'll recall the words of philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832):

Perhaps one day we'll end up by appreciating that the number of legs, the furriness of the skin or the tip of the sacral bone are completely inadequate reasons for abandoning a sensate animal. The question is not 'Can they reason?' nor 'Can they speak ?' but 'Can they suffer ?' "

Reminds me of a Ted Nugent quote:

"Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians - except for the occasional mountain lion steak."
Prof, you've always seemed a thoughtful man. Invoking The Nuge does nothing to further your argument.

Its both delicious and cruel...
This is probably the best considered response I've seen here.

[masonjarjar]

if aliens came here, most likely evolved way past mankind's level of "development," I doubt they would be very impressed by how the most highly evolved species on the planet treats the sub-species..



they'd probably go visit the dolphins first anyways..

[Crazy Dave]

If you avoid the biased propaganda from both sides of the issue, it turns out that most people who've studied the issue with no preconceived agenda conclude that forcefeeding a duck or goose is less cruel and painful than any other factory feeding process. If you can live with the way cows and chickens are treated at most farms, you can more than safely eat foie gras in good conscience.

I have seen films of the "force-feeding" of foie gra geese. It did not look crule to me and I am very sensitive to that sort of thing.

Dave

[Confuzius]

Jordan, I respect your decision, but question your reasoning. This strikes me as an "end justifies the means" argument. Raising animals for food is one thing; doing so with no regard for the quality of stewardship seems base and thoughtless. At the risk of seeming even more pompous, I'll recall the words of philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832):

Perhaps one day we'll end up by appreciating that the number of legs, the furriness of the skin or the tip of the sacral bone are completely inadequate reasons for abandoning a sensate animal. The question is not 'Can they reason?' nor 'Can they speak ?' but 'Can they suffer ?' "

I understand, I try as often as possible to source my meats from (what I consider to be) more ethical sources, be they organic, Kosher or Halal. I also told my self that when I started eating meat I wouldn't discriminate. If I'm going to be eating one animal, I can't not eat another, just because it's cuter, smarter, younger or whatever.

As far as suffering goes, it may be cold, or just plain wrong of me, but I see it as a kind of Plato's cave scenario. If all they've ever known is farm/pen/box life then that is their reality, and suffering is suffering in the context of what they might know to be real, not what is actually possible in the outside world. So spending your entire life in a pen, being fed on a mechanical schedule may seem like suffering for a cow compared to say a buffalo grazing on open pastures, but if it's all that they've known, they're probably rather content.

Slaughter these days is pretty much ruthlessly efficient, so barring any accidents there is very little opportunity for suffering there either. Pain; probably, suffering; I'm not so sure.

[Fnord5]

Never tried it, and don't really want to.
I don't like liver and I don't like any type of meat from fowl anyway.

It tastes like neither. You should at least try it once. :wink:


Second, I do not find it cruel.(although I am positive there are some farms that I would say are cruel)
Anthony Bourdain explains it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABeWlY0KFv8

[Nishnabotna]

As far as suffering goes, it may be cold, or just plain wrong of me, but I see it as a kind of Plato's cave scenario. If all they've ever known is farm/pen/box life then that is their reality, and suffering is suffering in the context of what they might know to be real, not what is actually possible in the outside world. So spending your entire life in a pen, being fed on a mechanical schedule may seem like suffering for a cow compared to say a buffalo grazing on open pastures, but if it's all that they've known, they're probably rather content.


Rationalization, which you might suspect I don't agree with. :tongue: Using this, you could rationalize just about anything.

[Sullybob]

Its both delicious and cruel - I love the stuff and my rationalization is that if geese had larger brains and opposable thumbs, they'd not hesitate to turn our livers into a yummy snack.

I'm fortunate in that I have access to good Quebec foie gras, as well as the French stuff.


+1, its delicious and cruel. For me, the deliciousness wins out over the cruel. I eat it rarely, it's just to expensive to eat often.

[Fnord5]

Slightly off topic.
I work at whole foods, and a while back we had these flyers about a proposition to do with animal cruelty.
I saw one, and told the cashier I was next to, "but the animals tears make it taste better"
You should have seen the death stare the customer behind me was giving me. :lol:

[Mysterion]

...As far as suffering goes, it may be cold, or just plain wrong of me, but I see it as a kind of Plato's cave scenario. If all they've ever known is farm/pen/box life then that is their reality, and suffering is suffering in the context of what they might know to be real, not what is actually possible in the outside world. So spending your entire life in a pen, being fed on a mechanical schedule may seem like suffering for a cow compared to say a buffalo grazing on open pastures, but if it's all that they've known, they're probably rather content...
Fair enough; I do appreciate the consideration you put into your decision. I doubt I'm clever enough to go head-to-head on philosophical underpinnings, but here's my take: Obviously, animals lack self-awareness. They don't anticipate, and they don't make comparisons. Domestic feedstock don't know that there's a better, more comfortable reality. But I do.

[kreigle]

I didn't vote since my answer isn't up there.

Don't like it, but not because of how it is 'made'.

My wife and I tried it in a restaurant not too long ago as part of an appetizer, and neither of us cared for the taste or texture of it. We couldn't even finish the small piece that was on the plate.

[Confuzius]

I respect that. My more comforable reality however includes bacon in my belly, and if that makes me a tyrant, that's something I'm prepared to live with.

I have also, on many occassions pondered wether or not, if the opportunity presented itself, via a horrible accident that made me lose a limb or what not, if I would try people. I realize that as people can feel and rationalize, it would be unfair for me to snack on anyone but myself. My only worry then is that I would develop a taste for it and lack a source. This is also a premise for a half written screenplay/short story in my head...

[ratcheer]

Both. Delicious and cruel. :bored:

Tim

[arghblech]

Both delicious and cruel.

I eat it and I don't feel guilty. I know where my food comes from.

[letterk]

I don't know either way, all I know is I'm not eating liver, regardless of where it came from.

[Shane]

I think it tastes great. If you think it's cruel, then more for me.

[blantyre]

I don't know either way, all I know is I'm not eating liver, regardless of where it came from.

Sounds like your strictly liver and bacon but hold the liver and give me some extra bacon instead. Not a bad route to go.

[Brodirt]

I recall with great pleasure a too short summer spent on a working olive estate in Aups, France where I learned to love all pates.

A morning jog would bring my brother in law and I to the local open air market where we would stock up on wine, charcuterie, bread, cheese and produce.

Late morning and early afternoon would be wiled away by the pool with the food and the TV2 showing the Tour de France start to finish.

What a summer.

[professorchaos]

Recovering from my puerile mood earlier...yes it is delicious and possibly cruel. Yet I approach the cruelty the same way I approach owning pre-ban ivory. Something died, or in this case suffered then died, to supply us with something wonderful. Better that the "something," be it ivory or foie gras, be appreciated than casually consumed.

[ouch]

Monkfish liver is delicious, and sometimes referred to as foie gras of the sea. The tail tastes like lobster, too.

[richmondesi]

The cheese thread got me thinking. Do any of you gents eat Foie Gras, or are there any guys who avoid it because of the way its made?

I don't know how it's made, and I don't want to. It's good. Don't ruin it for me:biggrin:

[thunderball]

On the practice of force-feeding or 'gavage':

"The result of this practice is a severely enlarged and fatty liver which results in the liver disease hepatic lipidosis. The liver may swell up to 12 times its normal size (up to three pounds)".

Yeah...that sounds great. :rolleyes:

[toucanlamp]

Some animal rights stuff is stupid, like all the opposition to seal hunting which is 100% only because they have cute little puppy dog expressions.

But there is a lot of stuff, like foie gras, serving fish that you cut up but don't kill and is wriggling on the plate in Japan, which is pure sadism. I mean why not carve up a cow's leg every two weeks before slaughtering it eventually because maybe scar tissue is a delicacy?

You accept that maybe the farmer mistreated the chicken you're eating, but you can know that mistreated livestock produces a poorer quality product and so there's a big disincentive there, plus regulation and inspection rules and processes have vastly improved in the last couple decades.

But if you can take pleasure in something which you absolutely know is the result of some unnatural biological experiment which destroyed the proper function of the animal's body, then you don't mind causing some animal major suffering for a needless luxury.

And the kind of argument that animals don't really suffer because they aren't self-aware like humans, that's so stupid. Like that family in Austria who grew up in an underground dungeon weren't really suffering because they never experienced anything else.

There's lots of suffering in nature and the world, but I don't think anyone should be just fine with a 100% direct exchange of pleasure to you from the prolonged suffering of another creature. And it is just immediate gratification because unlike regular meat which in moderation can be part of a healthy diet, foie gras is very unhealthy.

[Dubbya]

I don't eat factory cows or chickens, so factory geese are also probably out of the question.

I've had it prepared for me by a local butcher from three ducks taken from last year's 6AM, cold as hell by the way, expedition down to the river with a shotgun, a buddy, and a good dog. It's just as good wild as it is farm raised.

[Zombasaur]

But if you can take pleasure in something which you absolutely know is the result of some unnatural biological experiment which destroyed the proper function of the animal's body, then you don't mind causing some animal major suffering for a needless luxury.



If the production of foie gras was an unnatural experiment, you might have a point. However, the process of gavage mimics the process that migratory fowl undertake before the migration. Ducks and geese in the wild have their livers enlarged by themselves all the time. Also, ducks that have been in the process of gavage have had their livers return to normal size, with no noticeable effects afterwards.

For more reading on this topic, check out the book "Foie Gras Wars" by Mark Caro. I read this a few months ago and it really does bring up both sides of the entire debate very well.

[homebrewer]

It is so delicious that I'm considering making a pilgrimage back to Chicago, just to eat a foie gras hot dog at a little place called Hot Dougs. Honestly, I could care less about the "cruelty"... I personally fell that foie gras is one of the greatest human achievements, up there with the wheel, electricity, the automobile, etc. :tongue_sm

[Blondie]

The stuff is awesome, don't care how it is made.

[toucanlamp]

If the production of foie gras was an unnatural experiment, you might have a point. However, the process of gavage mimics the process that migratory fowl undertake before the migration. Ducks and geese in the wild have their livers enlarged by themselves all the time. Also, ducks that have been in the process of gavage have had their livers return to normal size, with no noticeable effects afterwards.

For more reading on this topic, check out the book "Foie Gras Wars" by Mark Caro. I read this a few months ago and it really does bring up both sides of the entire debate very well.

They do but not anywhere near the extent that occurs as a result of force feeding. Stocking up on nutrition for a journey is a lot different than dumping a kilo of grain down a duck's throat per day. You look at the videos of ducks who have been force fed for foie gras, they couldn't even walk around let alone fly, the breathing is extremely laboured as well. No duck or goose is going to eat voluntarily until its liver makes up half or more of its whole body weight.

If someone is eating the liver of a duck that they have hunted or whatnot that has the enlarged liver prior to migration, that is not a problem. But I've read that attempts to make a "humane" foie gras have been weak at best because it ends up with a liver only a couple or so times larger than normal vs. 5 and more times larger in force fed ones.

That's like saying it wouldn't be unnatural to force feed any hibernating animal so it quadruples its weight because they put on extra fat for the winter.

[Zombasaur]

You're right, the process of gavage does take a natural act and push it past what nature had intended. The same is true of all modern farming, whether you're a vegetarian or not. Cows are made ready for slaughter in 18 months, instead of the 4-5 years it used to take. Turkeys are bred to have breasts so large that they can no longer fly. Corn is produced (and subsidized) so that farmers can pull 3-4 times what they used to be able to off the land. Soybeans are genetically modified so that they can be sprayed with weed-killer and not die.

If you buy any food in a supermarket, you're eating something that was in some way forced to push itself beyond it's limits. This is called agriculture. Humans have been doing it for millennia, ever since we moved away from a hunter-gatherer society in favor of cities.

SWMBO and I have tried to become more food conscious, thinking about where our food is coming from, buying more from local farmers that have actually raised the animals that we are eating. When is comes down to foie gras, I personally feel better ethically about how the animals are treated than how pigs are raised. Really, when it comes down to it, everyone has to make their own decision where they stand on the food spectrum.

[professorchaos]

It is so delicious that I'm considering making a pilgrimage back to Chicago, just to eat a foie gras hot dog at a little place called Hot Dougs. Honestly, I could care less about the "cruelty"... I personally fell that foie gras is one of the greatest human achievements, up there with the wheel, electricity, the automobile, etc. :tongue_sm

Says something that Chicago banned it in 2006 and overturned that ban two years later.

[gratewhitehuntr]

comparisons to the rest of animal agriculture are incorrect

lets say a lamb were made more tasty by being beaten in the head with a stick three times a day

everything else was normal, but the animal had to be beaten severely every day or it would lose flavor

of course there would be a death rate due to brain trauma
I suppose maybe even enough deaths to make it expensive

maybe the farm operator could offer a prize for the worker who killed the least animals

[masonjarjar]

And it is just immediate gratification because unlike regular meat which in moderation can be part of a healthy diet, foie gras is very unhealthy.

Good point. It's definitely not an "its the cycle of life" issue.

no one needs that stuff.

[Fnord5]

comparisons to the rest of animal agriculture are incorrect

lets say a lamb were made more tasty by being beaten in the head with a stick three times a day

everything else was normal, but the animal had to be beaten severely every day or it would lose flavor

of course there would be a death rate due to brain trauma
I suppose maybe even enough deaths to make it expensive

maybe the farm operator could offer a prize for the worker who killed the least animals

Comparing head trauma to forced feeding is like comparing apples to moray eels. :confused:
Ugh.

Foie Gras is delicious.
Story, End of.

[Zombasaur]

comparisons to the rest of animal agriculture are incorrect


So you're ok with cows being fed corn (not what they would normally eat) so that their stomach turns from a basic pH (natural) to an acidic pH. Then when they get ulcers from the acidity due to the unnatural diet, they are fed antiboitics to stop infection.

Or hens being placed in battery cages, with each hen being allotted the size of a sheet of paper for it's entire life.

Or pigs having their tails taken off so that when another anxious pig starts gnawing on another's tail, it won't cause an infection.

There is a LOT worse animal practices in the food industry than gavage. Where do you draw the line? People's problem with foie gras isn't really the practice. If McDs sold foie gras, there would be no problem. People get hung up because:

a. It's liver.
b. It's something 'rich' people eat.

It's perfectly within the scope of the discussion to talk about whether or not it falls within acceptable farming practices. As an avid meat eater, I've felt the need to further examine exactly WHAT I'm eating, and where it's coming from. It's why I've switched from battery hen eggs to local eggs, and from supermarket beef to local farm raised beef. If you've decided that foie gras is cruel in your eyes, so be it, but it looks like fine farming to me.

[gratewhitehuntr]

I don't think it has anything to do with rich people

plus, I grew up on a beef farm

you are 100% right in everything you said (other than rich people)

everyone should know that their bucket of chicken grew in a box

I like to be personally responsible for the death f my meat

[Confilo]

I don't think this poll is meaningful - delicious and cruel are not mutually exclusive or even shades of grey, so my answer is "both", like veal and some authentic sushi dishes. Great foie gras is one of the best things imaginable. Chicago banned it for a time but I don't believe the ban was ever enforced - it just raised the price even more!

I agree, I voted both for delicious and cruel

[thunderball]

So you're ok with cows being fed corn (not what they would normally eat) so that their stomach turns from a basic pH (natural) to an acidic pH. Then when they get ulcers from the acidity due to the unnatural diet, they are fed antiboitics to stop infection.

Or hens being placed in battery cages, with each hen being allotted the size of a sheet of paper for it's entire life.

Or pigs having their tails taken off so that when another anxious pig starts gnawing on another's tail, it won't cause an infection.

There is (are) a LOT worse animal practices in the food industry than gavage...if you've decided that foie gras is cruel in your eyes, so be it, but it looks like fine farming to me.

Ahhh...the old 'Two Wrongs Make a Right' fallacy. Takes me back to Philosophy 101:

"This fallacy involves the attempt to justify a wrong action by pointing to another wrong action. Often, the other wrong action is of the same type or committed by the accuser, in which case it is the subfallacy Tu Quoque. Attempting to justify committing a wrong on the grounds that someone else is guilty of another wrong is clearly a Red Herring, because if this form of argument were cogent, one could justify anything―always assuming that there is another wrong to point to, which is a very safe assumption."

[toucanlamp]

I just think that really if you want to eat foie gras then go for it, but don't try and say it isn't cruel. And you can't hold your beliefs ala carte either, so if you think it is delicious and cruel and are fine with that, then next time you read an article about the kid who sticks a cat in the microwave then you better not say a thing because you've taken the position that an animal's suffering doesn't count for anything.

It doesn't have anything to do with it being a rich person's food, some of the most viscious criticism of livestock treatment has been directed at fast food companies like KFC, who have been exposed as buying their meat from places where the animals are treated with insane cruelty, and as a result of public pressure, they've had to make major reforms and the state of livestock raising today is vastly more humane than it was ten years ago.

Like I said, there is the irrational kind of animal rights positions, exemplified by opposition to seal hunting, and then there is perectly rational positions and I think foie gras fits that perfectly - suffering for unncessary pleasure. That's called sadism.

[Zombasaur]

If one thinks that foie gras is suffering, so be it. I truly do not think it is suffering after what I've learned about it.

The whole discussion really comes to where you morally stand on certain items, and I'm not about to get into a morality of food discussion online, as I don't think this kind of discussion really lends itself well to quick posting, and I'm not a pro writer. My last post got taken a bit out of context. I wasn't trying to say that 2 wrongs make a right, I was stating how I had recently been reevaluating a lot of my eating. (The whole part that got left out by elipses.) It's hard for me to sum up a whole 2-3 months of thought about my food in a few posts.

If anyone wants to talk more about it, feel free to PM, but right now I feel like I threadjacked and now am spinning the wheels.

[thunderball]

My last post got taken a bit out of context. I wasn't trying to say that 2 wrongs make a right, I was stating how I had recently been reevaluating a lot of my eating. (The whole part that got left out by elipses.) It's hard for me to sum up a whole 2-3 months of thought about my food in a few posts.

Upon re-reading your posts it looks as though I may have misunderstood the gist of what you were getting at and may have taken your comments out of context as you mentioned. :blushing:

[Greyfox]

Love the stuff.

[TetchyPete]

I've never eaten it and I never will. Just like I won't eat veal, battery eggs or factory farmed chicken. I have enough on my concience already without adding animal torture. What you guys do is up to you.

[Toody]

For me it's a simple matter of eating meat versus eating guts. I can handle eating muscle from pretty much anything. Reptiles, amphibians, birds, fish, it's all good. The closest I'll get to eating guts is the natural casing of a good hot dog or bratwurst. The bloated guts of a bird will never be as appealing to me as a delicious steak.

Birds are generally too stupid to understand and accept the unwritten contract of "Be happy that I'm feeding and in exchange you're going to die early" that is animal farming. Farming birds will always seem cruel as a result.

[SRock]

Its both delicious and cruel - I love the stuff and my rationalization is that if geese had larger brains and opposable thumbs, they'd not hesitate to turn our livers into a yummy snack.

I'm fortunate in that I have access to good Quebec foie gras, as well as the French stuff.

Priceless!