DD Wonderedge discussion

[BOGARTUS]

Why is this razor so popular and unusually expensive to buy used. There has to be similar razors that used the same methods in their production. Why are they not as trendy?

[19george]

To be quite honest I think it has to do with the fact that it is so popular among the gents over at SRP. Lynn mentioned in his video that he was introduced to the Wonderedge by another member at SRP, and after he mentioned that he liked it a lot, it almost overnight became a much more expensive razor to buy.

I'm new to straight razors so I don't have a lot of experience. Other razors probably shave just as well, its just a popularity thing. What's weird is that the Wonderedge isn't all that rare. I usually see one or two every week on ebay.

[joel]

Why is this razor so popular and unusually expensive to buy used. There has to be similar razors that used the same methods in their production. Why are they not as trendy?

It's kinda like a mercedes.... why are they popular/expensive? Because people will pay it. Funny thing is - the price on them had gone down considerably in recent years, and they are becoming more reasonable - yet Puma razors have jumped up in price big time.... figures? With what I have seen on ebay recently my 6/8 puma gold is worth like $500 :eek:

Actually - I just won a DD Wonderedge for around $100 that's in great condition, with original box, and in my opinion that's about all they are worth.... 2 year ago that would have gone for $350+.

There are plenty of other razors out there that are every bit as good as a TI... or BETTER. Hell, a 5/8 Thiers Issard Egyptian Palmwood for example outshaves a wonderedge anyday, and they are readily available, but they aren't cheap either at $230. Truth is there are plenty of old ebay razors and brands out there that are as good as wonderedges (and some even better) for a fraction of the price, as the guys who are buying them (Lynn and co. included) remain tight lipped about 'em. For instance, there is one brand in particular that mops the floor with a wonderedge, but I haven't mentioned them so much as one to anyone else, as they do pop up from time to time, and they are quite uncommon, and the only one I currently have is a 2/8th's and I'd love to get one in a larger size before I mention it to a few people, and make it more expensive to get :001_huh:

It's a dog eat dog world :biggrin:

[PalmettoB]

That's our Joel, always lookin' out for us! :biggrin: In all seriousness, a lot of these shaving items, straights, DEs, whatever, will rise and fall every time another "wetshaving report" like the MSN one comes out, or one or the other boards gets all excited about a particular razor.

I mean, who woulda thunk it that folks would pay $10 K for a PlayStation 3 on Ebay?

[JohnP]

I'm pretty much in agreement. I think a lot of the hype over wonderedges started with Lynn's first video over at the original SRP on yahoo. Mine shave quite well, but I don't think they are some sort of magical thing. I also paid too much, by current standards, but got them at a huge bargain for the rates they were going when I bought them.
I also think there is a certain mystique about the Wonderedge's special tempering process, in which the steel was tempered in an electrically controlled oven which apparently gave better results than other contemporary methods. I don't know. They are really good razors. Perhaps part of it is because of the tempering method they are more consistent than others? One can get another brand of razor and it might be just as good, or better, or perhaps it will be a real dog. The wonderedges, however, were all extremely consistent. One always knew they were getting a good razor that would take and hold a good edge.
At least that's part of my suspicion. Otherwise, the wonderedges would not have been suggested to Lynn with that "wink-wink, nudge nudge" mentality in the first place. They were obviously well thought of before.

That said....
Bang for the buck, I generally shoot for Henkels...
John P.

[joel]

I'm pretty much in agreement. I think a lot of the hype over wonderedges started with Lynn's first video over at the original SRP on yahoo. Mine shave quite well, but I don't think they are some sort of magical thing. I also paid too much, by current standards, but got them at a huge bargain for the rates they were going when I bought them.
I also think there is a certain mystique about the Wonderedge's special tempering process, in which the steel was tempered in an electrically controlled oven which apparently gave better results than other contemporary methods. I don't know. They are really good razors. Perhaps part of it is because of the tempering method they are more consistent than others? One can get another brand of razor and it might be just as good, or better, or perhaps it will be a real dog. The wonderedges, however, were all extremely consistent. One always knew they were getting a good razor that would take and hold a good edge.
At least that's part of my suspicion. Otherwise, the wonderedges would not have been suggested to Lynn with that "wink-wink, nudge nudge" mentality in the first place. They were obviously well thought of before.

That said....
Bang for the buck, I generally shoot for Henkels...
John P.


John,
Ever try a good Genco or Geneva? I think they spank the pants off a henckels, and are much, much less expensive.

[ouch]

Wasn't Genco a Geneva made after 1928? I have two Genevas, and they were dirt cheap and shave as good as anything I have.

Joel- you can pm me the name of the razor you're looking for. If I have it, I'll send it to you.:lol:

[JohnP]

Joel,
Don't think I've tried either of those.
My Henkels were all purchased dirt cheap with the exception of the Friodurs I own, which I paid something of a premium for.
I also am pretty happy with the results I got from some of the ERN and FWE razors I've tried.
The duck I'd like to try is a lifetime (non interchangeable blade version, of course).
For a long time my favorite razor was a beat-up looking hand forged thing made here in the US, can't remember the make exactly, but I'm sure if you think way back to the old yahoo days you'll remember me crowing about the thing.
John P.

[BOGARTUS]

I do have a Henckels #18 I picked up for 7.50. It looked pretty bad but came back nice, no visable hone wear. It does a better job than most of my junk. I don't have a Genco or Geneva. I have a handforged Adoration I havn't used yet, got it cause it was in such bad shape. there are pictures in previous post of mine (5$ razors). Interesting

[izlat]

ERN and FWE are well respected at SRP, especially ERN. Their price has been going up lately, I think. FWE on the other hand are still not too popular, even though some guys have said they are better than most other razors they have. One thing with FWE, though, is that I think I have only seen / heard about 5/8 or 11/16, and many guys prefer a larger blade. ERNs are fairly common in large sizes, btw. I have a 7/8 (for $20 shipped) but still have not shaved with it but started honing and it seems to take a good initial edge on the 4k.

As for Genco - it is very well respected by some of the advanced shavers. Sorry to say I have not gotten to honing mine ($20 again, for a rare Tiger) for a test shave... I have high expectations, for sure. I think Joe Chandler said that he has still to find an American razor that's not as good as the Germans. I am not sure I agree, as a Bill Ellis restoration Torrey did not give me such great shaves as my Pumas and Ducks... Many people rave about Torrey though... Bill had rated its shave quality at 8+ /10 and I thought his rating was right on target - but I prefer to keep shavers I rate at least 9 - 9+

And to get back to the Wonderedge - I cannot possibly consider a razor with original celluloid scales a Mercedes of a razor. But the steel is very good, it fits my hands very nicely, as if it were made for me, and, if honed well, gives a smooth shave. Yes, I have a much cheaper razor, which gives me much smoother shaves - I guess it's not as trendy...

Cheers
Ivo

[JohnP]

Hi Evo.
FWIW one of the only 2 razors I've sold was an ERN (I'm good at buying them, just not good at letting go....). It was a very good razor. I was so nervous (it was my first eBay sale and I wanted the buyer to be happy) that I actually posted a photograph of it passing the hanging hair test before being sanitized and oiled for shipment.
I'm not sure if the picture helped or not, because I've never seen anyone else post a pic of one of their razors passing the test, and I know some who sell razors whose blades would no doubt pass.
Wonderedges were well liked by barbers and straight users long before SRP came about, and I gather one day Lynn was given the secret handshake, and indeed, the razor really was good.
I think everyone's technique at honing is very personal, even when following the X-pattern, or doing a certain pyramid number of passes on the same hone. Often one will like a razor more based on how easy it is to get said razor into good shaving condition using his favorite technique. For instance, I can sharpen and shave with TI's, Wonderedges, Stainless...it doesn't matter. But while one person may love TI's, another with just as much experience will prefer Dovos.
When one of those people has built a reputation by sharpening OTHER people's razors (Lynn, Joe, Randy, etc) then that person's preference is given more weight, and the popularity of their favorite blades goes up.
Then there are the rest of us, who generally hone only our own razors, and are quite happy...and perhaps would prefer there NOT be a rush on our favorites over on the 'bay....
Just a thought, anyway. :biggrin:
John P.

[Laager]

I have had close to a dozen Wonderedges pass through my hands ranging in quality from mangled to NOS. All (that I have used) have been honed for my use by me (and I'm no honemeister). My current, retired but shave ready, Wonderedge is a plain ol' 9/16".

I can say that they are light in the hand; have a very delicate blade that flexes a bit more than I prefer; and takes a most glorious edge that is held for quite some time. Perhaps the longevity of the edge is due to the steel treatment - I don't know.

All I really can vouch for is that they are very nice razors that feel very nice to use and are worth getting.

The Wonderedges I currently have are all retired due to none of them being able to match the TI Damascus that I also have. The TI is my daily razor. (I didn't buy it because it looked good. I bought it to use it).

[JohnP]

I used to think Wonderedges were extremely expensive until I saw how much those TI damascus blades went for. Did you get the TI damascus limited SRP run from classic a few years ago? (not the SRP special TI...different razor)
I think that might've been when Lynn got his also, pretty sure Ray did too.
Personally I will take your word on it, as I don't have the cash flow for one of those beauties just yet....
still....feel free to post pics of it....
After all, I can't afford a Ferrari, either....doesn't mean I wouldn't like to live vicariously, though...
John P

[izlat]

John,

I was looking at various Damascus blades recently. Got a number of opinions from people who have or have had and sold Dama razors of different makes. Cannot say who said what as it is private.

The important thing for you, though, is that the TI Damas definitely are not the best shavers most people had. I know of several people who have had to sell at a loss because they were dissatisfied / disappointed. Of course, I don't have 30 or so separate cases, so this is anecdotal. Maybe there's a good TI Dama once in a while. However, this is a big gamble to take - you wouldn't really know before you hone it, and then it's already losing value... I personally am not rich, crazy, or irresponsible enough so I chose to pass.

Cheers
Ivo

[JohnP]

Hi again Ivo,
I'm actually not too anxious to buy a pattern-welded razor; perhaps if one of those people out there currently forging wootz like in the old days (NOT pattern welded at all, I'm sure you know the difference I mean) makes a razor I would check it out.
Some of those damasteel offerings either from Maestro Livi or on John's site, or even the pattern welded Boker I've seen....
But TI in general seems a bit overpriced to me. I bought my first one because everyone (at the time-I'm not too active at SRP these days but was then) kept saying they were superior shavers...left me thinking my Dovo was the used-1979 Honda Civic of the razor world, so I bought one.
Honestly, I don't even think TI's are better than my Dovos. They are decent razors but just can't see what all the fuss is about.
John P.

[joel]

I had a TI dama, and got rid of it. I have been thinking about picking up another one though... and I'm not sure why, but boy they sure are neat to hold/look at.

Laager - have you ever tried the hand/hammer forged Pierre Thiers razor? So far, I have not heard of a single individual who has owned both the LE Hammer Forged, and the TI Dama, and not felt the LE hammer forged was markedly superior to the dama, which were my thoughts as well. You see TI dama's go up for sale every so often - but I only recall one LE hammer forged ever go up for sale. I don't think the hammer forged ones are really "worth" the $430 or so price tag, but they are wickedly effective shavers.

[joel]

Honestly, I don't even think TI's are better than my Dovos. They are decent razors but just can't see what all the fuss is about.
John P.

John,
I felt the EXACT same way (I posted here many, many a time saying Dovo's were as good/better) until I invested an absurd amount of time and money honing equipment. I now have a "process" in which I sharpen them which includes japanese stones, 2 different grades of belgians, and various pastes, which REALLY makes the TI's stand out over dovo's as the dovo steel just cannot take as fine an edge. No matter what I did with a norton - I couldn't get TI's to perform, and it was not until I vested in all of this equipment that I took a 180 degree turn on TI's. Just for the sake of experimentation - if you'd like, if you send me your TI, I can send it thru my "process" and then send it back to ya. I think you'd be mighty surprised.

[izlat]

I had the TI SRP honed from Joe and it shaved like a dream. Sold it (might need to buy a new one :frown: ) and got a TI LE, which was promptly returned to TI for quality issues and almost offensive customer service. Now I am waiting for 2 vintage TIs. Surely have high expectations, and Tony M (who has 14 TIs and swears by them, and only a few other razors) has recommended several times to go vintage on TIs. By the way, a month or so ago Tony also sold his TI Damascus, for 550, as far as I remember. He is keeping the others :wink:

Cheers
Ivo

[JohnP]

John,
I felt the EXACT same way (I posted here many, many a time saying Dovo's were as good/better) until I invested an absurd amount of time and money honing equipment. I now have a "process" in which I sharpen them which includes japanese stones, 2 different grades of belgians, and various pastes, which REALLY makes the TI's stand out over dovo's as the dovo steel just cannot take as fine an edge. No matter what I did with a norton - I couldn't get TI's to perform, and it was not until I vested in all of this equipment that I took a 180 degree turn on TI's. Just for the sake of experimentation - if you'd like, if you send me your TI, I can send it thru my "process" and then send it back to ya. I think you'd be mighty surprised.
Joel, I'll think about it...
My TI's do ok with what I have, but currently I don't even have a Norton, it's broke and the pieces are on their way to Randy Tuttle who has something in mind for them I think. I have both Belgians (Blue and yellow) but will almost guarantee you have me outgunned in how many good hones you have.
So, I guess what I'm saying, is while my TI's will shave just fine, you feel they can get a lot better then? Currently I have a somewhat beat up Wolf & Sheep and 2 SRP limited ones.
If you say you can make it shave superior to my Dovo (or pretty much anything else) I may have to take you up on it...and then cringe as I buy yet another truckload of hones....
Such is life for the addicted....
John P.

[mparker762]

Hi again Ivo,
I'm actually not too anxious to buy a pattern-welded razor; perhaps if one of those people out there currently forging wootz like in the old days (NOT pattern welded at all, I'm sure you know the difference I mean) makes a razor I would check it out.


Classic's blurb on the TI damascus razor makes it sound like it's made of wootz, which would certainly explain the price. The TI damascus doesn't really look like pattern-welded steel.

[mparker762]

By the way, a month or so ago Tony also sold his TI Damascus, for 550, as far as I remember. He is keeping the others :wink:


That's the one Laager's got, BTW. It's a small world :wink2:

[joel]

If you say you can make it shave superior to my Dovo (or pretty much anything else) I may have to take you up on it...and then cringe as I buy yet another truckload of hones....
Such is life for the addicted....
John P.

John,
Yep - that's exactly it. I had a few TI's come from "honemeisters" and I had a few guys hone up some of my TI's claiming they could make 'em shave better than my dovo's, to no avail.

Do you happen to have diamond pasted strops? For some reasons TI's LOVE diamond paste, and 30 passes or so on some .5 diamond paste should REALLY make one hell of a difference. I usually hit a TI with a new yellow corticle first, then a 12K japanese waterstone, then a 30K, then a vintage yellow/white corticle (much, much, much finer grit that the "new" corticles) then finish it up with some .5 diamond paste, then .25 diamond paste, then some green chrom oxide paste - which adds that final touch to the edge to not only make it sharp as the dickens, but more importantly make it smooth on your face, and be the most comfortable.

If you don't have diamond paste - i'd suggest get a 4 sided strop from Tony (get the .5 and .25 pastes on balsa) and try that out on one of your SRP ti's, and you'll notice a shocking difference. Then send the other SRP ti my way, and i'll do my madness to it, then you can compare the two. :smile:

[mparker762]

For some reasons TI's LOVE diamond paste

Boy do they ever! Have you tried handamerican's Boron Carbide instead of the 1m diamond? I get better results on my TI LE with boron carbide followed with chrome oxide than I do with diamond paste and chrome oxide. Boron carbide gives a velvety edge feel like chrome oxide but is a coarser and faster grit (~13k). It's not quite as fast as 1m diamond but seems to make a nicer edge.

[JohnP]

Classic's blurb on the TI damascus razor makes it sound like it's made of wootz, which would certainly explain the price. The TI damascus doesn't really look like pattern-welded steel.

I know, and originally I drooled over those a lot more because of that; however pretty sure it came out on the boards that it is pattern forged Damascus, not sure if it was Ray or TI who said it. We had a member on the boards who worked for TI and pretty sure something was mentioned about selecting the different steels and then (here's the expensive part) forging it together on site. Many places offering pattern weld damascus source it already prepared (for instance, damasteel) and then forge it or mill and grind it into the finished product. Still not the same thing as the impurities in wootz giving it it's somewhat mythical properties.
IF however TI's were wootz in that sense, I'm sure TI would raise the price even higher....
John P.

[JohnP]

John,
Yep - that's exactly it. I had a few TI's come from "honemeisters" and I had a few guys hone up some of my TI's claiming they could make 'em shave better than my dovo's, to no avail.

Do you happen to have diamond pasted strops? For some reasons TI's LOVE diamond paste, and 30 passes or so on some .5 diamond paste should REALLY make one hell of a difference. I usually hit a TI with a new yellow corticle first, then a 12K japanese waterstone, then a 30K, then a vintage yellow/white corticle (much, much, much finer grit that the "new" corticles) then finish it up with some .5 diamond paste, then .25 diamond paste, then some green chrom oxide paste - which adds that final touch to the edge to not only make it sharp as the dickens, but more importantly make it smooth on your face, and be the most comfortable.

If you don't have diamond paste - i'd suggest get a 4 sided strop from Tony (get the .5 and .25 pastes on balsa) and try that out on one of your SRP ti's, and you'll notice a shocking difference. Then send the other SRP ti my way, and i'll do my madness to it, then you can compare the two. :smile:

Joel I have never used diamond paste and I've only used chrome oxide paste a little. Right now my primary hones (until I break down and buy a new Norton) are the Belgians. I also have one of the old yellow-white hones you mention and agree it is finer. I guess next payday (this is the "bills" payday) I will break down and get one of those paddle strops from Tony. I've been looking at them a long time anyway, might as well. I already have one or two strops from him now and they are top notch.
When I try that out on my SRP I think I will take you up on your offer, and thanks; if it turns out far better than what I'm used to I'll have to try replicating your process as best I can with my own hones, as Shaptons are out of my range for the moment, so are Belgians for that matter, but luckily already have some of those.
John P.

[Steelforge]

I had the TI SRP honed from Joe and it shaved like a dream. Sold it (might need to buy a new one :frown: ) and got a TI LE, which was promptly returned to TI for quality issues and almost offensive customer service. Now I am waiting for 2 vintage TIs. Surely have high expectations, and Tony M (who has 14 TIs and swears by them, and only a few other razors) has recommended several times to go vintage on TIs. By the way, a month or so ago Tony also sold his TI Damascus, for 550, as far as I remember. He is keeping the others :wink:

Cheers
Ivo

Hi Ivo,

Just out of interest what number was the TI LE handforged that you sent back? I just ordered one myself from Classicshaving and wanted to check it wasn't the one you returned when it arrives here.

Incidentally, i've been reading some of Joels (and others') comments about TI razors. I love my TI SRP LE and going on peoples advice I ordered the TI LE handforged. Trouble is I also dearly wanted a TI Damascus too, as it's apparently the only proper wootz steel razor being made - so I ordered one of those as well. :redface:

After that I thought well there's only one other razor I want after those two and that's a Maestro Takeda Damascus, erm, lets just say the credit card has had an extra hard workout this month and everyone is getting the economy Christmas cards! :redface: :lol: :thumbup1:

[mparker762]

Incidentally, i've been reading some of Joels (and others') comments about TI razors. I love my TI SRP LE and going on peoples advice I ordered the TI LE handforged.

Heh, I liked my TI pierreforged so much I convinced my wife to get me the TI SRP for christmas :smile:. She loves me, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[joel]

There's actually a razor 1/2 the price of the Pierre in the TI line that shaves better than the LE hammer forged....

[Steelforge]

There's actually a razor 1/2 the price of the Pierre in the TI line that shaves better than the LE hammer forged....

No there isn't, shut up, don't you dare say another word! :mad: :lol:

Anyway back to Wonderedge's.... :smile:

[letterk]

There's actually a razor 1/2 the price of the Pierre in the TI line that shaves better than the LE hammer forged....

You can just PM me that info.

[joel]

You can just PM me that info.

But i've already told you 2X bubba.

[letterk]

But i've already told you 2X bubba.

You did? Oh wait, I think I know what you're talking about.

[Laager]

Did you get the TI damascus limited SRP run from classic a few years ago?
No, I bought Tony's TI.

still....feel free to post pics of it....
Razor porn (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8451)

Laager - have you ever tried the hand/hammer forged Pierre Thiers razor?
No. Not likely to at $430+, either. At this time I'd rather spend less and be able to get a custom job from Maestro Livi with nondescript scales (to keep the price down).

[JohnP]

Ahhh.
Beautiful razor.
John P.

[catatonic]

Laager, that blade is outright gorgeous. IMO, Damascus is incredibly beautiful when done right, and that is as right as it can get.

[JohnP]

There's actually a razor 1/2 the price of the Pierre in the TI line that shaves better than the LE hammer forged....

If I recall the first time Lynn mentioned how much he liked them Classic was out of them in almost no time....

If I get another new TI I'll check it out.
Right now, I'm digging back through my current collection (I'm relatively broke for the moment, no doubt a lot of us are) and finding a few gems,
like an FWE Special that shaves almost exactly like my wonderedges do. It even has almost exactly the same blade feel...
John P.

[joel]

If I recall the first time Lynn mentioned how much he liked them Classic was out of them in almost no time....

If I get another new TI I'll check it out.
Right now, I'm digging back through my current collection (I'm relatively broke for the moment, no doubt a lot of us are) and finding a few gems,
like an FWE Special that shaves almost exactly like my wonderedges do. It even has almost exactly the same blade feel...
John P.

John,
It ain't the Egyptian Palmwood my friend :wink: This one's a hell of a lot better :biggrin: In fact - I just bought another.... and am seriously considering getting a 7 day set of 'em.

[JohnP]

Really?
I'll have to re-read your posts, because that's the one I thought you were talking about.
Personally for the moment my best shavers are for the most part Ebay relics that others would have thrown to the wayside.
I really wish I had a better setup, some of these really deserve new scales, etc but have steel that is out-of-this-world.
John P.

[Steelforge]

Which one is it then Joel, don't keep us in suspense?! :tongue:

[joel]

Which one is it then Joel, don't keep us in suspense?! :tongue:

I've been pretty tight lipped about it, as I am thinking about making a 7 day set outta them, and there really aren't very many left. One big public mention... and within a week or two - the remaining stock in existence will be gone. If you are really serious/interested - shoot me a pm.

[BOGARTUS]

I took your earlier advise and picked up this Geneva Co Straight Razor - Ontario Indian Chief for less than 5 bucks. After a little work it came out OK. And, it really shaves nice. Here are a few before and after picts.


http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=5080http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=5079http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=5082http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=5081