Razor Angle

[g1010]

I shave with a Merkur Vision and I love shaving with it. I read on the site, someone said to put the top of the razor's head on your chick (to where the handle is parallel with the floor) and pull the handle down (when shaving North to South) until you feel the blade start to cut on your face, and this will give the perfect angle (which I guess happens to be 30 degrees?).

My question is (1)["is this the desired and best angle for a shave?"] I am asking this question because I have been shaving for a couple of months (with the VISION) and have been getting really "Great Shaves", but after reading the ABOVE, I thought I was doing it all wrong, so I tried this new "Angle Thing". Man... I cut myself way more than I did when I first started shaving with a DE. But I will say, the shave seemed to be the closest I've ever experienced, just really bloody and uncomfortable.

I'm not sure but (2)[have I been scrapping (instead of cutting) the hair off my face before trying the this "Angle Thing" (but I was still getting great shaves)?]

My "Great Shaves" with my Merkur was done on the 1st "I" in VISION (the 2nd more open position).

My "Angle Thing" shaves with my Merkur was done on the N in VISION (most closed setting). But I got a closer shave than when opened. Go figure.

I want the closeness of the "Angle Thing" shave with the comfort of my "Great Shaves".

I'd appreciate any suggestions, comments, or let me know if you need me to describe more of my routine (which I didn't get into because I'm doing well with it).

Thanks,
Gee

[Scotto]

Hi g (do you have a name?). Welcome to Badger and Blade

Of course, some more info on your routine and products would be helpful. What sort of angle have you been using? If the razor handle points straight down, then you are indeed scraping your face. If you have been doing this for a while, then your face may have adapted to it, and changes are going to feel weird. Also, to shave this way, you are probably applying a fair amount of pressure (which you may or may not realize). Applying pressure while at the right angle is going to produce blood, as you found out.

The method you describe for finding the cutting angle is correct. The key, especially with a heavy razor like the Vision, is to apply NO PRESSURE. In fact you should almost feel like you are supporting some of the razor's weight, and letting the sharp blade do the cutting. This should reduce your nicks.

The other question is to what protection your face is getting from your prep, so if you let us know your cream/soap/brush, etc. we can provide some more information.

Lastly, as noted above, any changes you make are going to take time for your face to adapt. Go slow and easy and you will be fine. Feel free to ask lots more questions.

[g1010]

Scooto,
Here's my shave regerment...
Razor- Merkur Vision
Brush- Vilfux 2236 (silver tip)
Soap- Taylor's Sandalwood
Cream- Taylor's Sandalwood
Aftershave- Feather Kanwa

I shave after my shower but in the shower. I soak my brush then swirl in the soap. After I have enough soap I add the cream in the middle of the brush and mix in a bowl to work the lather (I feel like I get a great lather) and apply. I then shave pass1 N to S, rise, lather, shave pass2 S to N, rise, lather, shave pass3 W to E, rise, lather, shave pass4 E to W, now usually done unless I have to do any clean-up work, then apply aftershave.


Thanks,
Gee

[Scotto]

Interesting. Soap and cream together. Sounds good.

Sounds like concentrating on razor angle and (lack of) pressure is the key then. Let us know how it goes.

If S-N is against the grain for you, you might want to leave that for the last pass.

[g1010]

Scooto,
The angle I was using when getting "Great Shaves" was I'd 1st set the edge of the razor head on my face with the handle vertical, then lift the handle up (when shaving Nto S) until the hair gets shaved. I was doing the opposite it sounds like. You mentioned supporting some of the weight of the razor, I've been paying attention to the NO PRESURE thing, but never thought about supporting the weight (good illustration). I really appreciate your time and input.
Thank you,
Gee

[rschul2]

Gee,
It sounds like you are going about it the right way. One thing that I noticed when I first started is that while the blade should be about 30 degress, the contour of your face is constantly changing and you have to account for this. Still though, if you were already getting great shaves, why change? There is no right or wrong way. There is no doubt that a more aggresive blade angle will give you a closer shave, but at what cost?--it's your face! Only you can decide what is the perfect tradeoff between closeness and comfort. Some people just want a nice close shave, and others must have that smooth as a baby's ass type of feeling. I usually go for somewhere in the middle unless it's for a special occasion. Welcome to the board!

[g1010]

Randy,
Thanks for the advice. I'll have to give more thought to the contour of my face is constantly changing while shaving.

All these things to think about. I don't know if any of you play golf but when I 1st started playing there were so many things I'd think about before hitting the ball that I'd give myself a headache. Now I'm a 1.3 index. I hope the same thing will happen for me with shaving.
Thanks,
Gee

[g1010]

Now, what about changing the blade? People say they change their blades once every week or 7 shaves. Again since I have a Vision, would this mean 7 shaves on one side, then 7 more on the other side? Or 4 shaves on one side and 3 on the other? People do shave with both sides of the blade... right?
Gee

[guenron]

Greetings G,
If I understand your question, you wish to determine when (after how many uses?) to change blades. Usually most folks change after a duration as opposed to a number of shaves. It's easy to remember that every (you pick the day) Sunday or Monday or Tuesday ... you put in a new blade. This approach keeps things simple and avoids the unpleasantries associated with shaving with a dull blade.

Something in your message, though, caught my attention. The usual practice with a double edge razor is to use both edges during your shave. Some folks alternate every stroke, while others will switch edges when one edge would require rinsing off lather and sheared whiskers. For example, if you arbitrarily identified one edge as edge A and the other edge as B (or any other name you choose Fred and Barney?:huh: ), a shave might go like, first stroke with edge A, second stroke with edge B, rinse, next stroke edge A, next stroke edge B, rinse. You could go a couple or a few strokes with edge A then a couple or a few with edge B and then rinse. Or you could rinse the razor head after every stroke if you choose. It is really a matter of keeping the area around the blade from clogging with soap and whiskers and keeping the "used lather" from dribbling back onto your face that usually dictate when you choose to rinse.
Hope that helps and WELCOME to Badger and Blade.:badger:

[g1010]

guenron,
This helps greatly... This whole time I've never thought about using both sides during one shave. I've been using one side for every shave for 4 days then the other side for every shave the next 3 days, then tossing. Thanks for your help. I hope I don't sound too ignorant. I am just really new to all this.
Thanks,
Gee

[g1010]

Ok All,
It happened for me this morning...
I shaved this morning and had the best shave of my life without any cuts, nick, or gushing blood.:biggrin:
Here's the key... Scotto said, "NO PRESSURE. In fact you should almost feel like you are supporting some of the razor's weight, and letting the sharp blade do the cutting." I knew not to add pressure but this illustration about supporting the razor really turned on the lights for me and wow what a difference. This whole time I thought I was shaving with no pressure, but boy I had no idea.
Thanks to all,
:biggrin: Gee:biggrin:

[guenron]

guenron,
This helps greatly... This whole time I've never thought about using both sides during one shave. I've been using one side for every shave for 4 days then the other side for every shave the next 3 days, then tossing. Thanks for your help. I hope I don't sound too ignorant. I am just really new to all this.
Thanks,
Gee
Greetings Gee,
I am pleased that I could be of assistance. There is nothing wrong with ignorance. It can be cured through education. That's is what we hope to provide. Once again, Good Luck and Good Shaving!

[Nick]

Ok All,
It happened for me this morning...
I shaved this morning and had the best shave of my life without any cuts, nick, or gushing blood.:biggrin:
Here's the key... Scotto said, "NO PRESSURE. In fact you should almost feel like you are supporting some of the razor's weight, and letting the sharp blade do the cutting." I knew not to add pressure but this illustration about supporting the razor really turned on the lights for me and wow what a difference. This whole time I thought I was shaving with no pressure, but boy I had no idea.
Thanks to all,
:biggrin: Gee:biggrin:
Gee,
That's great news! Have you been able to stop molesting your face yet? (Don't worry, we all do it when we get that killer shave) :wink:

Keep us informed on how things go.

-Nick

[Scotto]

Glad things are working out for you. Keep up the good work and those follicles will be crying for mercy.:wink:

[g1010]

Nick,

Gee,
That's great news! Have you been able to stop molesting your face yet? (Don't worry, we all do it when we get that killer shave)
Your right, I can't keep my hands of my face. It's 11:18 p.m. and it's still smooth, it's been amost 12 hours.
Later,
Gee

[rtaylor61]

Gee,

Congratulations. Now that you have reached nirvana, hell is about to break loose. You will find that suddenly you want more creams, soaps, razors, blades, balms...it never stops. Why, because one perfect shave does not begat another one, and the quest for the perfect shave everytime is where you are headed. Don't worry, it's an enjoyable experience!

Randy

[rschul2]

Congratulations on a good shave! Let us know if you ever need any more help--we're here to help.:wink:

[Joe Lerch]

I shave with a Merkur Vision and I love shaving with it. I read on the site, someone said to put the top of the razor's head on your chick (to where the handle is parallel with the floor) and pull the handle down (when shaving North to South) until you feel the blade start to cut on your face, and this will give the perfect angle (which I guess happens to be 30 degrees?).

You have the right approach to finding the optimum angle. THe only thing I would suggest is that you bring the angle a little past where it just starts cutting so you have a little margin of error while you're shaving. You wouldn't want to stop or reduce the cutting with an accidental change in angle.

This angle is optimum for two reasons- it minimizes irritation (the scraping you get with large angles) and it applies most of the force on the razor to the cutting function. This means you want to use a lighter pressure than ever. Try holding the razor low on the resting it on your face abd only using the hand to guide it. Applied pressure is now your enemy.

Another thing to avoid is over aggressive shaving. Don't try to get a clean shave in the early passes. Instead, let the first two passes get you down to a light stubble, then go to skin on the third pass. The resistance of long whiskers may cause you to apply too much pressure to the razor.

Having more efficient cutting may also require more attention to stretching. If you present a skinn fold to the edge, it will be cut.

BTW, the optimum blade angle is not 30 degrees. It's a lot less, maybe half of that.

[Joe Lerch]

Scooto,
The angle I was using when getting "Great Shaves" was I'd 1st set the edge of the razor head on my face with the handle vertical, then lift the handle up (when shaving Nto S) until the hair gets shaved. I was doing the opposite it sounds like. You mentioned supporting some of the weight of the razor, I've been paying attention to the NO PRESURE thing, but never thought about supporting the weight (good illustration). I really appreciate your time and input.
Thank you,
Gee
This is the angle that produces the most scraping and is the one to avoid.

[Joe Lerch]

Now, what about changing the blade? People say they change their blades once every week or 7 shaves. Again since I have a Vision, would this mean 7 shaves on one side, then 7 more on the other side? Or 4 shaves on one side and 3 on the other? People do shave with both sides of the blade... right?
Gee
The most efficient way to shave is to use both sides alternately.

[Joe Lerch]

Ok All,
It happened for me this morning...
I shaved this morning and had the best shave of my life without any cuts, nick, or gushing blood.:biggrin:
Here's the key... Scotto said, "NO PRESSURE. In fact you should almost feel like you are supporting some of the razor's weight, and letting the sharp blade do the cutting." I knew not to add pressure but this illustration about supporting the razor really turned on the lights for me and wow what a difference. This whole time I thought I was shaving with no pressure, but boy I had no idea.
Thanks to all,
:biggrin: Gee:biggrin:
Great. That's what you want. You don't have to worry about supporting some of the razor's weight until you start opening up the razor or using Feather blades. Right now you're on track, and all you need to think about is letting the razor float over your face.

[mark the shoeshine boy]

Ron has helped me so much in my shaving routine...he is the inventor of the Guenron Flying "V" Shaving routine. It has helped me get close shaves consistently.

He taught me the Fred and Barney thing , too. So when I finish with my shave, I alwyas make sure that I finish on the "Fred" side...so I can yell....YABBA-DABBA-DOO !!! Thats the secret to a great shave....

Let the master himself tell you what the Gueron Flying "V" Shaving rountine is ....

mark the shoeshine boy

[Joe Lerch]

Ron has helped me so much in my shaving routine...he is the inventor of the Guenron Flying "V" Shaving routine. It has helped me get close shaves consistently.

He taught me the Fred and Barney thing , too. So when I finish with my shave, I alwyas make sure that I finish on the "Fred" side...so I can yell....YABBA-DABBA-DOO !!! Thats the secret to a great shave....

Let the master himself tell you what the Gueron Flying "V" Shaving rountine is ....

mark the shoeshine boy
I can't wait to hear!

[g1010]

Joe & Mark,
Thanks for the input, I have continued getting great shaves. Every time I shave now I'm getting a great shave. I think I'm over the hurdle. I look forward to my morning routines now.

One of my friend looked at me crazy today after I told him, "I can't wait until tomorrow!" He said, "Why?" I replied, "because I get to shave again!" He thought I was out of my mind. It's hard to get people to understand what shaving could be like, unless they try for themselves. Anyways, Thanks again.
Gee

[guenron]

I can't wait to hear!
You did already. I wrote the whole thing out for you months ago as a PM over at either SMF or TWSG.. My, my Joe. How soon we forget.:idea:

[Joe Lerch]

Of course! I just didn't recognize the new name.

[g1010]

Guenron,
I can't wait to hear about this Flying "V". Send me a PM when you have it written out.
Thanks Gee

[g1010]

All,
Ok, I am still getting the best shaves of my life, but right at the Adam's Apple for the last too day I've been getting really red.

A little bit of history... It's just been getting red since I've opened the VISION all the way open. I don't want to have to dial it down because I like the closeness of the shave, but I don't want my neck too be red either.

I think at the Adam's Apple I'm only going to have too dial it down, but "what do you guys do when this happens to you? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Gee

[Joe Lerch]

All,
Ok, I am still getting the best shaves of my life, but right at the Adam's Apple for the last too day I've been getting really red.

A little bit of history... It's just been getting red since I've opened the VISION all the way open. I don't want to have to dial it down because I like the closeness of the shave, but I don't want my neck too be red either.

I think at the Adam's Apple I'm only going to have too dial it down, but "what do you guys do when this happens to you? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Gee
Usually, I can avoid that problem by better stretching. The neck seems to be more sensitive than other areas, and loose skin seems to be a problem there.

[mark the shoeshine boy]

gee...

take a look at what Guenron did for you...here is the complete 4 pass method....stay in this razor subject and look for the 4pass method....

mark ths shoeshine boy

[Winblows]

For me, the meaning of shaving is to CUT the stubble away, not to SCRAPE it away.
Following this statement, I position my razor with its handle lifted as much as possible, so the angle between the blade and my skin is as close as possible (imagine hone a straight razor).
This is what I do when I shave.
How do You do it ?

[jamesspo]

Same. Low blade angle. As low as a given razor will allow.


For me, the meaning of shaving is to CUT the stubble away, not to SCRAPE it away.
Following this statement, I position my razor with its handle lifted as much as possible, so the angle between the blade and my skin is as close as possible (imagine hone a straight razor).
This is what I do when I shave.
How do You do it ?

[Bright (Satin) Futur]

May I direct your attention to this, Sir? http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Blade_Angle

[Winblows]

picture 5 looks right for me ...