A Damascus Straight in the Works

[BillEllis]

OK, first off, I'm just letting you know this thread is about a razor and not semantics. Semantics are fine, and the Lord knows I can be adamant about them myself... :001_rolle

I'll be happy to discuss definitions on another thread about my usage in this thread of the term "damascus" with anyone. I just don't want there to be a lost plot to this specific story here because someone wants to take a detour in some other valley by insisting that the razor is pattern welded steel and doesn't qualify as damascus.

I am in the process of making a damascus razor from some steel I was finally able to have Robert Eggerling make for me. I actually started working on the concept a couple years ago. When I asked Robert over the phone if he calls his work "pattern welded steel" or "damascus", he said it didn't matter much to him, but that he refers to his work as "damascus". End of story on that one as far as I am concerned.

Now, on to the story behind this razor I am about to make. (That doesn't have a buyer yet :smile:) I have made a couple damascus razors in the past that I am not particularly fond of. Bill Coffey also made one with its own unique set of problems that do not occur in the manufacture of a knife. A knife, as we all know, has a thicker blade... razors do not.

Because of the thin walls necessary on a razor to make it serviceable, there is an occurrence that is commonplace with all straight razor blades made out of damascus. Almost all of them have a tendency to micro-chip where the two (or three) different steels converge with an acute angle at the cutting edge. This is not a good thing. While these razors can give a satisfying shave, they can also catch a hair just right and it will feel like someone is pulling on your face with a set of pliers. This is why you don't see me making damascus razors.

Until now...

With that said, Tim Zowada has solved the issue on his razors because he tries to make the cutting edge wherein only one of the steels is running parallel to it. There are other damascus type steels some makers have used that incorporate a different type of steel sandwiched between two other steels. Normally, these sandwiched steels are not all that as far as I am concerned.

I like the tighter patterns of damascus on the smaller blades of a straight razor. I think Robert came up with what I was looking for. We'll see how it works. Robert welded a strip of 1084 carbon steel for the cutting edge to the other two steels he used for the pattern. After I get it done and etched, there should be some sharp contrasts that pop out visually.

I'm stoked!

A couple gemstones strategically placed and a bit of practice with some gold-wire inlay and I'll be able to compete with Seraphim's Double Arrows... :wink:

[superbleu]

If you are taking numbers Bill, Let me know ;).

Can't wait to see the finished razor.

[ambrose]

:w00t: cant wait

[Anocer]

Wicked :cool:

What do you have planned for this one?

[BillEllis]

Wicked :cool:

What do you have planned for this one?

Sorry, Ben... no tours on this one. My trust only goes so far... :wink:

If it shaves good, I'll sell it. If not, I'll keep it as a wall-hanger.

superbleu... you may want to check the bank for interest rates first... :eek:

[Anocer]

Sorry, Ben... no tours on this one. My trust only goes so far... :wink:

If it shaves good, I'll sell it. If not, I'll keep it as a wall-hanger.

superbleu... you may want to check the bank for interest rates first... :eek:

Oh, Bill... a Traveling Tour for the Damascus? Even MY humor has limits, good sir... But since you offered, I do suppose I could show the new girl around the City of Lost Angels :lol:

I was actually wondering about the style... :tongue_sm

[thunderball]

Very nice indeed. :smile:

[BillEllis]

Oh, Bill... a Traveling Tour for the Damascus? Even MY humor has limits, good sir... But since you offered, I do suppose I could show the new girl around the City of Lost Angels :lol:

I was actually wondering about the style... :tongue_sm
What offer? :smile:


Ahem... style? Y'mean like the one that is outlined on the second photo? :rolleyes:

If you are just looking for the name, it's called the "humpback".

[Anocer]

What offer? :smile:


Ahem... style? Y'mean like the one that is outlined on the second photo? :rolleyes:

If you are just looking for the name, it's called the "humpback".

Why I figured when you said "no tours" you were obviously implying that it would only visit me... I wouldn't call that a tour... just a little visit :lol::lol:

Sure, sure, a humpback.... style as in, etching, engraving, carving, scales etc...

For instance, you could make this one into some wicked grim reaper piece with a carved human spine for the spine spine and a skull with ruby eyes at the head with tombstone scales... just a thought. :punk:

[BillEllis]

Why I figured when you said "no tours" you were obviously implying that it would only visit me... I wouldn't call that a tour... just a little visit :lol::lol:

Sure, sure, a humpback.... style as in, etching, engraving, carving, scales etc...

For instance, you could make this one into some wicked grim reaper piece with a carved human spine for the spine spine and a skull with ruby eyes at the head with tombstone scales... just a thought. :punk:
Ahh! Embellishments. Now I understand.

Style is humpback.

Embellishments would include but are not limited to a gold inlay celtic do-dad on top of the spine with a couple 2mm diamonds for contrast. The tang would have a gold wire inlay border. Maybe ivory scales... haven't decided yet.

[thanks]

This already sounds and looks amazing, and knowing your work this will turn into a work of art! Can't wait to see the finished product. If it looks menacing enough, maybe you could call it the "Bill Ellis Girlie-Man Killer".:thumbup1:

[mdunn]

im a big fan of humpbacks - and a gold wire inlay!

droooool

[Seraphim]

Wow.

Just that plain hunk o' steel is a sight to behold!

My childrens' college education fund may have to wait!:wink:

[SavantStrike]

:ouch1:

I like what I'm seeing just from the outline. Oh heavens that looks hot!

[ameetmedi]

I am glad I resisted getting a Damascus till now.. the wait continues :thumbup: till I come close to the getting one

[Mejnoon]

Looking forward to watching this one come alive Bill:thumbup:

[smokelaw1]

Did I read that right? Doesn't have a buyer yet?
Is there a place to wait in line?

[Fnord5]

Hmn, I have a credit card in my wallet, with a zero balance, and a 12k limit.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend would likely immediately cut my head off with it, or walk out never to talk to me again if I dropped the kind of cash for a Regular Ellis razor.(is there such a thing?)

I am going to sit this one out, or go buy a winning lotto ticket.:thumbup::frown:

[Mejnoon]

Hmn, I have a credit card in my wallet, with a zero balance, and a 12k limit.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend would likely immediately cut my head off with it, or walk out never to talk to me again if I dropped the kind of cash for a Regular Ellis razor.(is there such a thing?)

I am going to sit this one out, or go buy a winning lotto ticket.:thumbup::frown:

"This is an investment Baby!"

[Fnord5]

"This is an investment Baby!"
I used that all up a while ago.

She is smart enough to know you have to SELL eventually for it to be an investment.:sneaky2:

[TOB9595]

This will be MAGIC!

The steel is breathtaking
Tom

[mdunn]

I used that all up a while ago.

She is smart enough to know you have to SELL eventually for it to be an investment.:sneaky2:

:biggrin::biggrin:

[joel]

You little..... :mad:

[BillEllis]

You little..... :mad:

The arrival of the steel was unexpected and I didn't think it'd show up for at least another 6 months. And the only reason I said it wasn't sold yet is cause you didn't say that you wanted it yet... :tongue:

Between this one and the battle axe in the works, you may want to consider that you'd personally be sending me to the Bahamas for a couple weeks.

Ball in your court... :wink:

[Fnord5]

Battle axe?
Either it's a really really big razor, or a literal battle axe.

Got pics? Either way I want to see it.:thumbup:

[BillEllis]

Battle axe?
Either it's a really really big razor, or a literal battle axe.

Got pics? Either way I want to see it.:thumbup:

It's a surprise... Pics when it's done. It's a miniature battle axe that will be geared for daily shaving if that's what a user wanted to do with it. It's barely over 6 inches long.

Right now, though, I'm wanting to see how this damascus comes out.

[Fnord5]

Bwah hahahaahaaaha.

That is awesome!

[zippo]

The arrival of the steel was unexpected and I didn't think it'd show up for at least another 6 months. And the only reason I said it wasn't sold yet is cause you didn't say that you wanted it yet... :tongue:

Between this one and the battle axe in the works, you may want to consider that you'd personally be sending me to the Bahamas for a couple weeks.

Ball in your court... :wink:

If you make me your apprentice ,can I come to the Bahamas too ?
Kind regards Peter

[Alaskan Eagle]

It's a surprise... Pics when it's done. It's a miniature battle axe that will be geared for daily shaving if that's what a user wanted to do with it. It's barely over 6 inches long.

Right now, though, I'm wanting to see how this damascus comes out.

That would be the coolest thing in the world.:thumbup:

[smokelaw1]

Between this one and the battle axe in the works, you may want to consider that you'd personally be sending me to the Bahamas for a couple weeks.

Ball in your court... :wink:

Bahamas? Can I trade you one of my weeks of timeshare in Aruba? It's in a two bedroom suite! 300 feet from the beach....with 150 of those feet being a bar!



It's a surprise... Pics when it's done. It's a miniature battle axe that will be geared for daily shaving if that's what a user wanted to do with it. It's barely over 6 inches long.

Right now, though, I'm wanting to see how this damascus comes out.

I think I need to shave with a Bill Ellis battle axe. NEED. Not want, not "would like to"....NEED.

[BillEllis]

If you make me your apprentice ,can I come to the Bahamas too ?
Kind regards PeterSure thing, Peter. Good to see you out and about. When do we get to seem some more of your artistry?

[BillEllis]

Here is where I'm at.

Got the grinding done, at least as far as I will go until after heat treat. I tapered the tang a bit as well for balance and function. I'm smoothing some lines and preparing surfaces and design shapes for the gold inlay. I had some 18K gold, but decided to go with 24K instead. I'm waiting for it to arrive from Rio Grande. Inlay will be in place before heat treat, but outline cuts on the gold will be after the temper.

I'm also trying to get some practice in using some copper in the designs I had in mind in place of the gold. Gold is too expensive to practice with. This will not be easy schmeezy for me, and I'm hoping this is not too rough around the edges.

[BillEllis]

I use a bit rougher grit for hogging out the hollow grind. Speed on the machine is less than half of its capability.

First pic is flattened sides, and then it's time for some serious adjustment and an attempt to grind everything away that doesn't look like a razor... :biggrin:55332

55333

55334

55335

55336

[Jatte]

looks awesome :)
ive always wanted a big belt grinder like that,

what kind is that?

[RetroGrouch]

Wow... it's so cool to witness the creation of this razor. Thanks, Bill, for sharing these pictures!

Mike

[TstebinsB]

Somewhere in Detroit, Tim "The Tooltime" Taylor just went, "Ho ho ho ho ho!" :001_cool:

[SavantStrike]

Somewhere in Detroit, Tim "The Tooltime" Taylor just went, "Ho ho ho ho ho!" :001_cool:

Somewhere in PA my jaw just hit the floor.

[Shane]

Words fail, even these.

[richmondesi]

Bill, I'd send you to the Bahamas for that razor. I've checked the interest rates and everything :biggrin:

[Tolduonce]

Speechless. Please keep the photo progression coming. Just wondering, will that razor get used or is it a display only?

[whitebar]

Bill, as if I didn't already have it bad enough wanting one of your unobtainable razors, now you have to go and show something like this. :cursing:

It will most certainly be a classic and I can't wait to see how things progress. :001_tt1:

[Luc]

Thank you for sharing the step by step creation of the razor, it's great!

[BillEllis]

looks awesome :)
ive always wanted a big belt grinder like that,

what kind is that? It's a Burr King (http://burrking.thomasnet.com/viewitems/belt-grinders/velvet-touch-two-wheel-belt-grinders-model-960-2-2?&forward=1). Ignore the fixed speed models. Ya can't make knives without using a variable speed.


Speechless. Please keep the photo progression coming. Just wondering, will that razor get used or is it a display only?You touched on something here. For the most part, custom knives are bought for nothing other than display. Most folks in the collectible knife-buying world would not consider using a $400 knife whereas the staight razor users demand that it can be used. I like that because the razor can not only be a collectible, but it can have additional value as a useful tool.

[richmondesi]

You touched on something here. For the most part, custom knives are bought for nothing other than display. Most folks in the collectible knife-buying world would not consider using a $400 knife whereas the staight razor users demand that it can be used. I like that because the razor can not only be a collectible, but it can have additional value as a useful tool.

I would imagine that this brings even more satisfaction to a craftsman

[Joshua Da Silva]

It's a surprise... Pics when it's done. It's a miniature battle axe that will be geared for daily shaving if that's what a user wanted to do with it. It's barely over 6 inches long.

Right now, though, I'm wanting to see how this damascus comes out.

BATTLE AXE!!!! :w00t: Oh man I'm giddy now.


Somewhere in Detroit, Tim "The Tooltime" Taylor just went, "Ho ho ho ho ho!" :001_cool:
:lol::lol::lol:


That razors looks incredible. The steel it started out alone looks awesome, I can't wait to see the finished product! Thank you for showing us the process involved, very cool:thumbup1:

P.S. This was my first post in the straight razor forum. You guys are started to get to me!

[Fnord5]

How does Damascus hold up during heat treating?
I assume that during the welding/forging process that the layers are inseparable, but then again, they are distinct layers. :confused:

Is there any risk of splitting?

[Jatte]

the only reason it looks like two layers of steel is because one of the layers resists corosion and the other doesnt ,
one turns black one stays silver, if they are originaly welded correctly,

there is some talk about the edges chipping a bit when honing, but it says earlier in this post that whoever made this damascus has figured out the problem

[SavantStrike]

I'm still drooling over this razor. In fact this is the first time I have ever wanted a damascus.

Oh I hope some day I get to be one of the lucky guys who owns an Ellis. :drool:

[cromagnum]

Ok just read thru this thread, on the buyer I saw someone offer you a visit to his time share.... interesting barter... but if that falls through I would love to be in line for purchase... My wife is already a little upset on this shaving thing, since I have only been doing it for 6 months and have 50 razor from ebay and 5 or so new ones. Keep me in mind:smile: still don't own a damascus one....

crom

Looks great, love the picture. Can't wait to see the finished product.

P.s. how do you like your cash....

[Doc4]

OK, first off, I'm just letting you know this thread is about a razor and not semantics. Semantics are fine, and the Lord knows I can be adamant about them myself... :001_rolle


So, Bill, will this be a "custom" razor?

:a49:


You touched on something here. For the most part, custom knives are bought for nothing other than display. Most folks in the collectible knife-buying world would not consider using a $400 knife whereas the staight razor users demand that it can be used. I like that because the razor can not only be a collectible, but it can have additional value as a useful tool.

Totally n00b question about the knife-buying world ... would those $400 display-only knives still be made durable enough for acutal use? I don't mean a Bill Ellis Custom Knife, which I assume would be capable of going to "Heck" and back and looking darn fine in the process, but in seeking artistic/cosmetic perfection do some other knifemakers have to trade off the functionality of the knife? I'm thinking they might use a steel that polishes well but isn't too practical for actual use as an edge-holding blade?

[sickz284u]

Bill, That razor is looking amazing. Cant wait to see it finished!! :thumbup:

[BillEllis]

So, Bill, will this be a "custom" razor?
Now, that's my kind of comedy... :wink:


...would those $400 display-only knives still be made durable enough for acutal use?They would absolutely have to be functional. Most collectors do not use them because any signs of use and they lose value. Part of the reason for most collectors is the investment. Not too many custom knives lose their value. Some increase in value based on the maker's reputation.

If you think about it, there would be no good reason to scob up a $400 custom knife on a camping trip since there are plenty of $20 knives around that will be the functional equivalent. I have had several customers who have used my hunting/skinning knives and love them, but they were the boys who could afford them. They enjoy showing them off around the campfire, so to speak. Most of the time, however, the new buyer won't even put a custom knife in the sheath that comes with it for fear of putting on a scratch in the blade surface. These are the boys who only use a genuine chamois cloth to remove finger oils from the surfaces. So, while they are functional, I would not use any one of the custom knives I have for their intended purpose.

I do have a really nice Jim Martin engraved folder that I will carry occasionally in a felt case to cut loose string or a send a hang nail off to meet its maker... :wink:

[BillEllis]

This is that Jim Martin Sunday-go-to-church folder I was talking about.

Jim Martin Knife (http://www.billysblades.com/Other%20Images/Martin%20001.jpg)

[Doc4]

This is that Jim Martin Sunday-go-to-church folder I was talking about.

Jim Martin Knife (http://www.billysblades.com/Other%20Images/Martin%20001.jpg)

Verrry nice! I had to chuckle at the thought of a "going-to-Church-knife" :wink:

(Oh, and thanks for explaining about the custom knives above.)

[ambrose]

I cant wait for pics :thumbup:

[Stigmas]

Bill, Have you ever thought about using different types of metals for a razor? I was a student in welding engineering and I know some of the recipes for some secret metals. I could make you razors that were super hard and even different colors. There are some aircraft aluminums that are super hard, would hold an edge, and you could make them really vibrant colors. There are other metals that are way harder then steel, which would give you a better shave and hold an edge longer, but the metals themselves would be a little more pricey. On the upside you wouldn't have to heat treat them.

[turbine712]

WOW Bill, it must take you a looooonnnngggg time to grind that blade down. It's been over a week and no update pic's.
Come on Bill put something up even if it's a razor you bought on e-bay.
Thanks,
turbine712

[BillEllis]

WOW Bill, it must take you a looooonnnngggg time to grind that blade down. It's been over a week and no update pic's.
Come on Bill put something up even if it's a razor you bought on e-bay.
Thanks,
turbine712

Actually, I have been busy with the project... on the prep side. I was waiting for the 24K gold wire to arrive, and I needed more practice time learning how to do the inlay. I have a couple designs in mind, but I haven't made a final decision yet.

I put in about 15 hours to see how things will work using copper wire because it's similar to using gold. I will take some pics and post them shortly.

[Bacchus]

I love the wire inlay you've done before, beautiful!

[BillEllis]

Sticker shock for the gold wire.. :eek:

[BillEllis]

Paper design possibilities...

[BillEllis]

Some previous attempts with the wire. The gold is actually gold, but only 18K. The heart is actually a bunch of wire laid in parallel sections and then sanded down to match the surface. The propeller looking thingies are possibilities for the top of the spine.

The tool in my hand is what does the work. It's fed by air and it acts like a mini jackhammer to cut out the steel.

[BillEllis]

Channels are cut following the design layout. Undercuts within the channel keep the gold/copper/brass from coming out of the channel. You can see the start of hammering in the copper in the last photo. Once that is done, the excess is cut near flush to the surface and then sanded smooth. After that, the outline of the copper/gold is engraved with a thin line around its borders.

[SavantStrike]

You've outdone yourself.

The metal from your "attempts" - you know the stuff that won't end up being a razor that you say you throw in the trash because you don't sell substandard stuff, please don't throw it out this time! Someone will want that for it's awesomeness. Heck slap it in a picture frame and hang it on the wall or something!

Oh sweet mercy I'm on overload imagining that on a razor. Do you plan to offer inlay like that on your non damascus razors? I'm actually especially fond of the copper. I think the copper could actually be very dramatic depending on the color of the scales and the preference of the buyer. Sooner or later someone will ask for that inlay with gems and damascus...







Oh man I hope on on the pre-pre list for a custom. Or even the pre-pre-pre list, or the pre-pre-pre-list, etc....

[SavantStrike]

It's been over 12 hours and no one has responded to pics of a custom in progress :eek:. A custom guys!

What's the world coming to?

Notice how the metal Bill is working on is square, and beveled on the edges. I keep thinking how awesome it would be to have a bunch of those and use them as tiles.

Then again if people started getting in line for Ellis tile work, then there would be less customs. Don't do it Bill. Don't do it! :lol:.

[turbine712]

WOW, WOW, WOW!!!!!
Bill that is going to look unbelievable. The inlay is a work of art. Your talents will sure be rewarded.
I can't wait for the next series of pictures and THANKS !!!
TURBINE

[Sullybob]

Sticker shock indeed. How much of the gold thats in the package will you use on the razor?

Thanks for sharing the work in progress.

[Bacchus]

Hmm.. Thats different than what I thought you were going to do, I was thinking of the wire wrapping you've done on some scales, but I do like these!
I as well, would love one with a copper inlay

[SavantStrike]

Sticker shock indeed. How much of the gold thats in the package will you use on the razor?

Thanks for sharing the work in progress.

IDK. I mean on the one hand it's pricey, but on the other hand it's gold. Gold has always been pricey and with gold it's common to melt down the scraps and recycle them. That said, it's outside my price range to add gold to a razor :lol:.

[Muirtach]

Bill, if you keep this up I might have to put you on ignore until the razor is sold and gone. :biggrin: Simply amazing.

[fatpanda]

Thank you for the pictures... Very informative, especially the transformation from raw form to a blade! This makes me wish that I majored in metallurgy! :biggrin:

[BillEllis]

A bit of an update... I'm still practicing before taking the chance of ruining over $200 worth of steel/gold... :wink:

The first pic is of the few quick-change gravers that I am using in my handpiece to cut channels, impact the copper, and flush it to the plate surface.

I added one pic through the lens of my stereo scope to give you an idea of what I see while I am cutting.

[BillEllis]

Once the surface of the copper and steel are sanded flush, I go back and cut the outline of the copper so that it is more easily seen. I also have to keep track of the Celtic weave to make sure they all alternate rather than have any bands become part of a repeat pattern.

Here are a couple pics of the mostly-finished Celtic pattern.

[Fnord5]

That is going to look slick as snot on the damascus. :drool:
Is the area of the inlay going to be etched, or polished?

Also, do you have any of the scrap leftover from the blank? I am 100% sure you have already thought of this, but it might cut different than the steel you are practicing on, and the scrap would be good to test out.:blushing: (no offense meant, I just know that if I were doing it, it would be one of the things I overlook, and it would come to bite me in the ass.)

[BillEllis]

Here is the middle design all filled in with gold... color. It's actually brass. I think this particular design is a bit busy for such a small area, so I'll probably go with the top one.

[richmondesi]

Outstanding Bill. Do you have a buyer yet?

[Seraphim]

Wow, looks great (no surprise). Thanks a bunch for sharing the progress pics!

[SavantStrike]

So... beautiful...

How many hours does it take you to create an inlay like the ones you are showing? The level of detail is staggering. It's like building a watch.

[humber burns]

This razor is going to look awesome when finished... I'm restless with anticipation!:w00t:

[Haiku]

Thanks for posting these picture, they've become a highlight of the site for me.

[Seraphim]

I'm beginning to think that this Mr. Ellis fellow knows what he's doing!


:wink:

[ryrelav]

Just fantastic what people can do.

[denmason]

Geez, I leave for vacation and feel like I've been missing out.
Good looking stuff Bill. I know you're gonna nail this one. As always, it's a pleasure seeing your work come together as a work of art.

[Vergeh]

You're a gentleman and an artist. I can't wait to see how this puppy turns out. I really hope it shaves well.

[BillEllis]

Geez, I leave for vacation and feel like I've been missing out.
Good looking stuff Bill. I know you're gonna nail this one. As always, it's a pleasure seeing your work come together as a work of art.Vacation? Cripes, You been gone long enough to raise a herd of albino goats... :smile: Good to see you back though...


You're a gentleman and an artist. I can't wait to see how this puppy turns out. I really hope it shaves well.:eek: I gotta make it shave??????:eek:


I'm beginning to think that this Mr. Ellis fellow knows what he's doing!
Naw...

[BillEllis]

Finally, some actual progress other than just practicing to make progress. :rolleyes: Here is the blade resting in the heat molded plastic that will keep it secure in the vise as I work on it. You can see the machinist's dye that I used on top of the spine to mark where I wanted to inlay the gold. I marked the outer boundaries where I wanted the design to sit first, and then divided that by 4. I think you can see the dividing marks scratched in the ink. Then I freehanded the design I decided upon within the borders of those 4 sections with a metal scribe.

[BillEllis]

Once the design is drawn, I cut it lightly first, and then more deeply using a flat chisel-like engraving tool that is slightly less in width than the diameter of the gold I am putting in. I am using 24 guage wire, which is .020 or 1/2mm in diameter. After the channel is cut to the proper depth, I undercut the entire length of the design on both sides of the bottom of the channel to hold the gold in place after it is pounded in. This pic does not show the undercut.

[SavantStrike]

:drool:

And my heavens you work fast Bill! I was writing a reply to the picture you posted and saying how the razor was going to look nice when the gold was hammered in, and before I could click reply you had a picture of the razor with the gold hammered in :lol:.

3 words.

Heart achingly beautiful.

[BillEllis]

After the channel is cut, then I sand the top of the spine to remove the burrs created from the engraving tools. It is also at this stage that I begin to undercut the channel to hold the gold. Having the gold fall out would be ugly, so it is important that the undercut is done properly. The dark area is merely the debris from the sanding process. It will be cleaned out during the undercut process

[BillEllis]

After undercutting the bottom of the channel with a knife-shaped engraving tool, I pound in the pure gold wire with my engraving machine set to about 1,400 beats per minute vs. 2,400 BPM for the engraving portion of the work. The tool I use to do that looks like a flat round-nosed and tapered rod. You can see it at the top left portion of this pic.

http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=57556&stc=1&d=1246384775

After pounding it in with that tool, I use the one that is the second tool over from that one to cut the gold semi-flush with the surface of the spine. Here is the pic of the gold pounded in and ready to be cut flush.

[BillEllis]

Once the gold is cut flush with the surface, I sand it smooth and remove any mars I made in the steel while I did the work. Then I carefully cut a line in the steel that borders all of the gold to give it a nice outline, making the gold stand out more. This is where you have to be very careful cutting so that the engraving tool does not drift from the harder steel into the soft gold. Because the design is so small, variances in the width of the gold vein would easily be seen if the cut is not nearly perfect.

[michael.scheller]

The work is beautiful and I get to learn a lot in the process of the telling.
Thanks Bill.
:w00t:

[BillEllis]

I used some gun bluing to give you a bit of a glimpse into what the spine will look like after it is etched with ferric chloride after heat treat and tempering. The top will actually be a bit darker than this grey color. I used a tiny bit of polish on top of the spine so you can see what the end product will look like... kinda.

See, once the mystery of the process is revealed, you can see that it ain't all that hard to do. I know all y'all won't go out and drop over $3K on an engraving machine and another $2K to go to engraving school in Kansas, but you could do it if you wanted to. If some of you did, though, maybe it'd cut down on my workload and I could get in some fishing... :cool:

[turbine712]

Beautiful work Bill. I have several questions if you don't mind.
1. What will be the overall length of the blade?
2. What is the thickness of the area you placed the gold?
3. What kind of grind will the finished blade have?
4. What was the size of the original billet of metal?

I'm real glad you showed a picture with the ruler to give us a perspective on how small of a piece you are working with. I'm am very impressed with the engraving tool you are using.
Nice work and thanks for the series of photo's.

[BillEllis]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that while engraving the borders of the gold, ya gotta keep track of the weaves and make sure that the bands of gold alternate properly by going over and under the other band. You don't want haphazard crossovers goin' on. I don't know if that made sense to you, but I hope it did.



1. What will be the overall length of the blade?
2. What is the thickness of the area you placed the gold?
3. What kind of grind will the finished blade have?
4. What was the size of the original billet of metal?



6 inches overall with a 2 3/4 inch cutting edge like my other humpbacks.
The total thickness of the blade is 3/16 of an inch which is not quite 5mm.
1/4 hollow grind using an 8-inch contact wheel. That's a 4-inch radius for those of you in Rio Linda.
Slightly less than 1 inch by 6 inches long.

[whitebar]

Every time I see an update to this thread I get all excited as I can't wait to see what magic Bill is going to share with us next!

[Samouraï]

fascinating. beautiful work.

[ambrose]

its really coming along !!!

[SavantStrike]

As always the work is unbelievably gorgeous!

I've also got a ton of new questions if you're game to answer them:
1.can you shed some light on the vice you are using? It looks a bit different than the ones I have used, but perfect for this setup.
2.Where do you get that spiffy heat moulded plastic? Is that stuff something most of us would be able to use without ultra expensive equipment?
3. Most of your razors are 1/4 grind, do you ever make something hollower if the client requests it?

[BillEllis]

This will show you how big things are...

[Lowstandrd]

I know all y'all won't go out and drop over $3K on an engraving machine and another $2K to go to engraving school in Kansas...

Apparently Bill, you haven't paid attention to what these people spend a month on razors. :lol:

Very nice work. I have really enjoyed watching this thread progress. Behind the scenes is always fun.

[BillEllis]

1.can you shed some light on the vice you are using? It looks a bit different than the ones I have used, but perfect for this setup.
2.Where do you get that spiffy heat moulded plastic? Is that stuff something most of us would be able to use without ultra expensive equipment?
3. Most of your razors are 1/4 grind, do you ever make something hollower if the client requests it?


It's a jeweler's ball vice. Not for the hobbiest pocketbook. You can find them (http://www.grstools.com/ballvises.html#standard) at GRS tools. If you call, ask for Linda.
Same place on this page (http://www.grstools.com/workholding.html#thermoloc). You'll also need the form block found on the same page to get max use out of the stuff. All you need to do is throw the thermoloc in the microwave for 20 seconds. To release it from the workpiece, you may need a cheap heat gun. You can get those anywhere.
If the client requests it? You jest. I don't do requests. Mostly that's due to the fact I don't care much for other folk's designs or ideas and I'm too old and cranky to make stuff I don't like. (Which reminds me; I just had a certain somebody over who looked at what I had planned for them and within 10 minutes wanted about 40 zillion changes. Can you say "new buyer"? :biggrin:)Since I don't make my knives or razors to put food on the table, I don't care if I don't sell anything.

[SavantStrike]

It's a jeweler's ball vice. Not for the hobbiest pocketbook. You can find them (http://www.grstools.com/ballvises.html#standard) at GRS tools. If you call, ask for Linda.
Same place on this page (http://www.grstools.com/workholding.html#thermoloc). You'll also need the form block found on the same page to get max use out of the stuff. All you need to do is throw the thermoloc in the microwave for 20 seconds. To release it from the workpiece, you may need a cheap heat gun. You can get those anywhere.
If the client requests it? You jest. I don't do requests. Mostly that's due to the fact I don't care much for other folk's designs or ideas and I'm too old and cranky to make stuff I don't like. (Which reminds me; I just had a certain somebody over who looked at what I had planned for them and within 10 minutes wanted about 40 zillion changes. Can you say "new buyer"? :biggrin:)Since I don't make my knives or razors to put food on the table, I don't care if I don't sell anything.


Awesome!

1. The vice is outside the hobbyist budget range to be sure. I was afraid of that when I first asked but figured there was a possibility it might be affordable (I guess not :lol:). Nice vices are expensive. Nice tools are expensive but then again you get what you pay for.

2. Sweet!
Do you also have the super fancy precision heat gun that goes along with this moulded plastic, or do you use an alternative heat source? I'm thinking el cheapo heat gun or a torch (best to test that one outside... :lol:). The moulded plastic itself is cheap, but the heat gun, well again, good tools are expensive :lol:

3. Fair enough. I'll take that to mean that when I saw an Ellis blade in "full hollow" once that it was a typo :biggrin:. Additionally it would be a bad thing if all of your blades looked the same, as then they wouldn't be one of a kind.

Which leads me to

4. I figured out how it goes. Getting one of your customs is like having a baby. The buyer gets a chance and then tells you to go nuts. Some period of time later a suprise is waiting :lol:

[BillEllis]

Do you also have the super fancy precision heat gun that goes along with this moulded plastic, or do you use an alternative heat source?


This one will work just fine. $9.99... can't beat that.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/96200-96299/96289.gif
Here (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96289) is the link...

[persco]

This is -- hands down -- my favourite thread. Thanks Bill.

I leave the continent in 2 years, and I sure hope your waitlist for razors gets somewhere down near my name in that time...

Here's hoping.

s.

[humber burns]

:drool::drool::drool:

[JonnyAngel]

If the client requests it? You jest. I don't do requests. Mostly that's due to the fact I don't care much for other folk's designs or ideas and I'm too old and cranky to make stuff I don't like. (Which reminds me; I just had a certain somebody over who looked at what I had planned for them and within 10 minutes wanted about 40 zillion changes. Can you say "new buyer"? :biggrin:)Since I don't make my knives or razors to put food on the table, I don't care if I don't sell anything.



Reminds me of Howard Roark from "The Fountainhead." He had clients so he could build; he didnt build to have clients. I understand where you are coming from on this Bill. I feel that every razor maker has their own artistic style. When you choose the "right" maker for your "custom" you have picked your design because you have seen the style of their work. You wouldnt ask Surrealist painter to do an Abstract piece!

Good luck with the project! Im curious to see how it comes out!

[netsurfr]

Stunning razor! Thanks for posting the pictures of the progress.

[AceBuckeye]

Bill, this is awesome, it's kind of like reading a book while the author is writing it!!

:thumbup1:

[Synack]

This will show you how big things are...

Wow, that does put things into perspective. I couldn't imagine trying to do detailed work like that in such a small space. :thumbup1:

I can hardly wait to see the finished product!

[Jatte]

has any new work been done?
i'm excited

[quixand]

Now I know what "too pretty" actually means. This razor is magnificent. :thumbup1:

[Ru4scuba?]

Beautiful and informative thread Bill...thanks for posting.

I asked about Damascus steel a while back, and now I know why they are expensive!

I've always had an interest in the stuff...for our wedding, my wife bought me a Damascus steel wedding ring because she knew I was a bigtime history buff. When we first saw the ring in the store, all she could remember was how I went on for hours about how Damascus steel helped defeat the Crusaders etc...

Here is a pic of a similar ring...

[huracan]

I visited Bill's blog today. Bill, the Damascus straight looks fantastic to say the least.

[Isaac]

Where did you see that?

[richmondesi]

Where did you see that?

here (http://razortips.blogspot.com/)

[huracan]

Didn't figure to link to it myself :frown:.

It looks really nice right?

[John C]

See, once the mystery of the process is revealed, you can see that it ain't all that hard to do. I know all y'all won't go out and drop over $3K on an engraving machine and another $2K to go to engraving school in Kansas, but you could do it if you wanted to. If some of you did, though, maybe it'd cut down on my workload and I could get in some fishing... :cool:[/QUOTE]

I thought this thread looked *real* familiar.
Hey Bill, I've been following this thread over at the Engravers Cafe.
This has been one fine project from the start and I can't wait to see how it turns out!
Thanks for all the pics, I'm sure that it helps the guys here to see what it takes to get a bit of decoration into the metal. :w00t:

edit: followed the link to your blog and saw the finished work. Wonderful, truly and inspiration.

[rickboone1]

People's talents never cease to amaze me.

[turbine712]

If you look at Bill's website and his blog, he has the blade completed and has taken some time to be away from here. Other than that I have nothing to add, if he is away because of health issues or some other project.

[Klopstick]

Awesome!

1. The vice is outside the hobbyist budget range to be sure. I was afraid of that when I first asked but figured there was a possibility it might be affordable (I guess not :lol:). Nice vices are expensive. Nice tools are expensive but then again you get what you pay for.

You might want to have a look at this innovative solution (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=33563) to the ball vise situation.
:w00t: It's ain't quite as spiffy looking, but you can make it work! (in New England, you could substitute a candle-pin ball)

[Blaine]

If you look at Bill's website and his blog, he has the blade completed and has taken some time to be away from here. Other than that I have nothing to add, if he is away because of health issues or some other project.

Does anyone interact with Bill outside of the forums?

I was thinking of ordering his restoring CD, but his site says he has to burn it special for the Mac. If he's on vacation/not feeling well... I'd hate to interrupt.

[Feniks]

So...did this razor ever get finished? Curious as to what the final product looked like. Depending on what was used for the scales, I might be interested in buying this too.

[richmondesi]

So...did this razor ever get finished? Curious as to what the final product looked like. Depending on what was used for the scales, I might be interested in buying this too.


here (http://razortips.blogspot.com/)

:wink2:

[huracan]

I think that razor may already be spoken for, but have a look in Bill's regular site [here] (http://www.billysblades.com/product.html). He refurbished the whole site over a month ago and I am really surprised a lot of those blades are still there, specially some in the "scarce and rare" section.

I know they are not customs, but his restorations are really good. I took home the W&B in purpleheart.

[xillion]

That steel is beautiful, gotta love Damascus.

[Yester5]

Such a wonderful thread...you are a true "Sensi" Bill:)