I am about to give up on this!

[Carlos_]

Ok, breath... calmly... I will explain my situation.

I am relatively new (6-7 shaves under my belt) to shaving with a DE (Merkur Classic Heavy Duty)

I am from the Caribbean, I have sensitive skin, and coarse hair.


Here was my technique when I started.


Hot shower
Dry
Baby oil
KOS gel (lot's of water)
Shave
Nivea ASB


After some advice from regular B&B contributors I ditched the Dry, Oil, Gel.

My current technique


Hot shower
Proraso shave cream (+ hot water, bowl, badger brush)
Shave
Nivea ASB


It'll all went down hill two nights ago.

Blade: Personna red pack for the 2nd time

Problem: Razor burn on jawline, edge and lower portion of neck on both sides.

my skin swelled and I have never in my life gotten so much razor burn

my skin is starting to scab and with the help of neosporin, aloe vera gel (great stuff, at least that's what it feels like) and an ice pack it stopped the swelling.

I've gotten better experience with cartridges!

is the (personna) blade too aggressive for me?
is my angle wrong (how do I know what angel to use for each blade)
is my prep wrong?

I want to stick with DE's and eventually graduate to a straight but not at the cost of my skinning my self.

[Handy]

Are you running over the same area a few times without any lather? Maybe you are putting too much pressure on the razor?

[JimBow]

You may need to improve on your blade angling, but it could partly be because of the Personna blades. I had terrible shaves with them myself, and having switched blades, I get great shaves from Derby's, Dorco's, and Crystals on a daily basis. Try improving your technique overall, and maybe try a newer blade brand.

[Dustinl]

Are you running over the same area a few times without any lather? Maybe you are putting too much presser on the razor?

Pressure is what I am thinking as well.


DL

[thepugilist]

You may need to improve on your blade angling, but it could partly be because of the Personna blades. I had terrible shaves with them myself, and having switched blades, I get great shaves from Derby's, Dorco's, and Crystals on a daily basis. Try improving your technique overall, and maybe try a newer blade brand.

+1. I went to Derby's and haven't had a single problem since. They are a lot more forgiving than some of the others, IMHO. I have only tried a few different blades, but Personna and Feathers both tore me up.

[scoopster]

Carlos, I am sorry you are having a rough start. Hang in there and hopefully we can get you experiencing great shaves. Here are a few questions and things to think about.

* What were you doing prior to DE shaving and was it working for you (i.e. what soaps/creams did you use with your cartridge razor)

* In one of your statements about you indicated you were drying your face before continuing on with later steps. Keep it wet during your shave, don't dry off.

* Have you tried using different razor blades (i.e from a sampler pack from a place like West Coast Shaving)?

* You may be sensitive to some of the ingredients in your shave cream. Some folks are sensitive to eucalyptus or menthol both of which are in Proraso. It might be good to try an unscented shaving product.

* As always folks new to DE shaving tend to have problems getting the proper blade angle and use of little to no pressure. Take a look at mantic's videos for good pointers about how to approach this. The best trick is to put the head of the razor on a nice flat spot on your cheek and slowly tilt the razor and move it until the angle is such that the whisker start getting cut. That is the perfect blade angle. Then you just need to get used to using that same angle off over the various contours of your face.

* Don't shave again until your face is fully recovered. Trying to shave when your face is still recovering from a rough shave will only prolong the misery.

* What kind of passes are you doing. Given the trouble you are experiencing I suggest only doing one, maybe two With The Grain passes until your shave comfort improves.

* I suspect you are running into troubles in several of the areas I outlined and based on your description I am especially concerned about a reaction your skin is having with the Proraso.

Check back in and let us know how it is going.

[thepugilist]

Pressure is what I am thinking as well.

That was a very bad habit that was hard to break for me.

Don't give up quite yet, trust me you will eventually be very glad that you made the switch. I look forward to shaving now because it is so relaxing to me. Really, I wish that I could do it twice a day.

[Carlos_]

Are you running over the same area a few times without any lather? Maybe you are putting too much presser on the razor?

It feels like I am because the Proraso shave cream and the pricks of my (tweezerman) badger brush irritates my skin. :eek: (ouch!)

Should I ditch the brush and cream? or just the brush?

Should I have a limit on the number of passed I go WTG or ATG? even if I'm not getting BBS?

As long as I get a smooth shave I don't care about invisible stubble.

[JimBow]

It all depends on how long you've been shaving this way. It's generally suggested that you just do a WTG and XTG shave regimen for about 2 weeks or so, just to get the hang of things. I wouldn't go throwing out a perfectly fine brush or cream just yet....

You may also want to refine your lathering techniques, that can make a WORLD of difference.

[mmack66]

It feels like I am because the Proraso shave cream and the pricks of my (tweezerman) badger brush irritates my skin. :eek: (ouch!)

Should I ditch the brush and cream? or just the brush?

Should I have a limit on the number of passed I go WTG or ATG? even if I'm not getting BBS?

As long as I get a smooth shave I don't care about invisible stubble.

You might be allergic to something in the Proraso cream.

[gollum83]

* You may be sensitive to some of the ingredients in your shave cream. Some folks are sensitive to eucalyptus or menthol both of which are in Proraso. It might be good to try an unscented shaving product.

This is what I'm thinking is the root of the problem because you're saying your skin swelled. Sounds like a bad reaction to your shaving cream. If your skin is sensitive its best to start off with a unscented cream for sensitive skin so you can minimize the chance that it will react badly with your skin.

That said it could also be the blade. It sounds like you're like me and were cursed with sensitive skin and a coarse, think beard. I'm still new to the whole DE thing and am still working my way through a blade sampler pack, but I find the Red Personnas do nothing for me. Personally, I really like the Astra Superior Platinum blades. Those puppies slice through coarse hair like butter. If you haven't given them a try yet, I would as they would probably help cut down on your irritation.

[john.crissman]

I am going to take a different approach. It is my opinion that you should soften your beard more.

First, wait until your face has healed.

Then, try lathering up about three times before you shave. Leave the lather on for about 3 minutes each time, then rinse with warm-to-hot water, then shave. You should feel your beard getting softer.

Next, use very little pressure with your DE. I agree with all of the other posts on this.

Lastly, right after you wash your face, always moisturize it. This is a better way to treat your skin and prep your beard.

I hope something in all of these suggestions (mine and others) work for you!

[xgunterx]

[8<]

I've gotten better experience with cartridges!



Patience.
Your technique will improve, your skin will most likely have to adapt to the DE as well.



is the (personna) blade too aggressive for me?
is my angle wrong (how do I know what angel to use for each blade)
is my prep wrong?

I want to stick with DE's and eventually graduate to a straight but not at the cost of my skinning my self.

Instead of ditching the blade immediately, I would focus first on the other variables.
For ME, and this can be different for other people, my technique, progress and results improved by switching to soaps. I've started also with Proraso and even I do think it is a great cream, it doesn't provide as much cushion and protection from the blade on your skin as soaps do.

Imho does a prep only helps a shave when using a good technique.
The prep itself is however not a reason for a bad shave.
This has more to do with an incorrect technique as using pressure, using a wrong angle, going over the skin where the soap is already gone or a combination of these.

So, make sure you use no pressure (or very light) and hold the head to your skin and by lowering the handle a bit till the hairs are being shaved. Then you have the correct angle.
In the beginning you have to think about it, but after a while it goes all by itself.

[thepugilist]

Patience.
Your technique will improve, your skin will most likely have to adapt to the DE as well.

Very true, it took a little bit for my face to get used to it.

[Carlos_]

Carlos, I am sorry you are having a rough start. Hang in there and hopefully we can get you experiencing great shaves. Here are a few questions and things to think about.

* What were you doing prior to DE shaving and was it working for you (i.e. what soaps/creams did you use with your cartridge razor)

* In one of your statements about you indicated you were drying your face before continuing on with later steps. Keep it wet during your shave, don't dry off.

* Have you tried using different razor blades (i.e from a sampler pack from a place like West Coast Shaving)?

* You may be sensitive to some of the ingredients in your shave cream. Some folks are sensitive to eucalyptus or menthol both of which are in Proraso. It might be good to try an unscented shaving product.

* As always folks new to DE shaving tend to have problems getting the proper blade angle and use of little to no pressure. Take a look at mantic's videos for good pointers about how to approach this. The best trick is to put the head of the razor on a nice flat spot on your cheek and slowly tilt the razor and move it until the angle is such that the whisker start getting cut. That is the perfect blade angle. Then you just need to get used to using that same angle off over the various contours of your face.

* Don't shave again until your face is fully recovered. Trying to shave when your face is still recovering from a rough shave will only prolong the misery.

* What kind of passes are you doing. Given the trouble you are experiencing I suggest only doing one, maybe two With The Grain passes until your shave comfort improves.

* I suspect you are running into troubles in several of the areas I outlined and based on your description I am especially concerned about a reaction your skin is having with the Proraso.

Check back in and let us know how it is going.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll head back to the KOS gel for now, my Personna came from the "letterk" large pack from wetcoastshaving. I still have Astra, 7'oclock sharpedge, Crystal and Dorco I want to try but am literally scarred so I will most likely just do 2WTG and 2ATG (at max).

I used to use Aveeno sensitive skin (canned) with worked ok but the smell was unbearable (KOS was a good substitute for me)

My hair growth is upper face N-S and the line going down the center of my neck is also N-S. Everything else (including mid-cheeck) is W-E so against the grain for me is uncomfortable at best and painful at worst.

Should I be shaving N-S (WTG) and S-N (ATG) regardless of growth direction for best results?

[scoopster]

The direction of the beard growth dictates the direction of the pass. if your bear growth in a part on your face is south to north your With The Grain pass will be south to north.

Essentially you shouldn't get hung up on absolute directions (north, south, etc).. You need to figure out what direction your beard is growing and that will dictate what the direction of your razor passes is.

[gollum83]

Should I be shaving N-S (WTG) and S-N (ATG) regardless of growth direction for best results?

Ah, maybe we have something here. You may want to skip the ATG pass for while until you nail down technique. I made the mistake of doing a ATG pass the first time I used a DE about three weeks ago. Irritated the shit out of my neck! I learned my lesson that day and focused more on learning the direction of my beard growth and how to shave with the contour of my face. It's made a major difference since that first shave. Next to no irritation and increasingly great shaves since then.

[thepugilist]

Ah, maybe we have something here. You may want to skip the ATG pass for while until you nail down technique. I made the mistake of doing a ATG pass the first time I used a DE about three weeks ago. Irritated the shit out of my neck! I learned my lesson that day and focused more on learning the direction of my beard growth and how to shave with the contour of my face. It's made a major difference since that first shave. Next to no irritation and increasingly great shaves since then.

Yeah, the first time I tried it, my face was on fire. It was only like my 4th or 5th shave and it really hurt. I then realized that I needed to crawl before I walked.

[gone down south]

so I will most likely just do 2WTG and 2ATG (at max)



Have you been paying any attention? ATG is your enemy! 2 WTG passes. That's it. In a couple weeks add an XTG, maybe another one the week after that. NO ATG until you can do all that properly.

[gollum83]

Yeah, the first time I tried it, my face was on fire. It was only like my 4th or 5th shave and it really hurt. I then realized that I needed to crawl before I walked.

Isn't that the truth! The ATG pass will humble even the manliest of DE noob.

[Gunnar]

There is a lot of advice being given here but I'm going to chip in my two penn'th!

- When everyone says use light pressure on the DE razor they really mean virtually no pressure.

- How many passes are you using? Try shaving with a single with-the-grain pass. You won't get a baby's-bottom-smooth face from that, but a single pass shouldn't irritate your face while you are learning the light touch and correct angle. After a week or two you can add an across-the-grain pass as a second pass but only when you can shave without irritating your skin.

- What angle are you holding the razor at? Switch off the music, turn off the tap and listen while you move the razor over your face. The correct angle will give a sound like opening a velcro fastner as it cuts your beard.

Stick with your present kit, varying soaps, blades, brushes and razors is tempting, but it is your technique that is giving you a sore face. Go forwards slowly, one shave at a time and remember that Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Montecristo #2]

If you have a Whole Foods in your area, grab some Kiss My Face unscented cream, I think it is the best cream for senstive skin that still whips up a decent lather.

[Crazy Dave]

Ah, maybe we have something here. You may want to skip the ATG pass for while until you nail down technique. I made the mistake of doing a ATG pass the first time I used a DE about three weeks ago. Irritated the shit out of my neck! I learned my lesson that day and focused more on learning the direction of my beard growth and how to shave with the contour of my face. It's made a major difference since that first shave. Next to no irritation and increasingly great shaves since then.

I am a newbee to DE, but there are parts of my face that don't shave well unless I go ATG. What has worked for me is to do a fist pass WTG, lather up again and do a second pass ATG. If it does not feel right, I do the second pass with the grain again and do a thrid pass AGT. It has been working for me, but I don't think my skin is that sensative. When I grew a beard in my 20's, it was quite thick!

Dave

[gollum83]

I am a newbee to DE, but there are parts of my face that don't shave well unless I go ATG. What has worked for me is to do a fist pass WTG, lather up again and do a second pass ATG. If it does not feel right, I do the second pass with the grain again and do a thrid pass AGT. It has been working for me, but I don't think my skin is that sensative. When I grew a beard in my 20's, it was quite thick!

Dave
Well I hear were you're coming from Dave. I'm in my mid-20's and have a thick beard. ATG passes do help a lot because I know it did when I was using a Mach3. Couldn't get a decent shave without them. Still I wouldn't recommend Carlos does an ATG pass until he gets his DE technique down pat with the irritation he's seeing. You might be able to get away with it early on, but if you have sensitive skin forget it. I got cocky that first DE shave and I paid for it with a ton of razor bumps, ingrown hairs and a few little whitehead pimples.

[Carlos_]

Ah, maybe we have something here. You may want to skip the ATG pass for while until you nail down technique. I made the mistake of doing a ATG pass the first time I used a DE about three weeks ago. Irritated the shit out of my neck! I learned my lesson that day and focused more on learning the direction of my beard growth and how to shave with the contour of my face. It's made a major difference since that first shave. Next to no irritation and increasingly great shaves since then.

Got it, thanks no ATG for me, when do I know I'm ready for ATG?

[Carlos_]

You might be allergic to something in the Proraso cream.

I think I am since it leaves my skin dry, flaky and swollen. :frown:

[Carlos_]

I am going to take a different approach. It is my opinion that you should soften your beard more.

First, wait until your face has healed.

Then, try lathering up about three times before you shave. Leave the lather on for about 3 minutes each time, then rinse with warm-to-hot water, then shave. You should feel your beard getting softer.

Next, use very little pressure with your DE. I agree with all of the other posts on this.

Lastly, right after you wash your face, always moisturize it. This is a better way to treat your skin and prep your beard.

I hope something in all of these suggestions (mine and others) work for you!

Thanks! for the advice.

"I've got a fever! and the only cure is more cowbell!" couldn't resist...

[Carlos_]

Have you been paying any attention? ATG is your enemy! 2 WTG passes. That's it. In a couple weeks add an XTG, maybe another one the week after that. NO ATG until you can do all that properly.

I will print and duct tape those instructions to my mirror!

Your advice is GREATLY appreciated.

[Zach V.]

The main issue is probably that your angle is off and/or you are doing too many passes.

Bottom line- use little no pressure on the razor, take minimal passes, watch your angle, and KEEP PRACTICING. It can take a while to unlearn the habits of shaving with a cartidge. Establishing a successful routine can take several weeks or even months. For me, i was getting acceptable shaves after about 6 weeks, much better shaves at three months, terrific shaves at around 6 to 8 months. I'm now at ten months, and Am still improving. It is a PROCESS, NOT AN EVENT.

Stick with it and hang in there, and eventually it will be worth it.

[Carlos_]

That was a very bad habit that was hard to break for me.

Don't give up quite yet, trust me you will eventually be very glad that you made the switch. I look forward to shaving now because it is so relaxing to me. Really, I wish that I could do it twice a day.

I'll hang in there, I bet it was the blade + pressure + allergy to Proraso :mad:

[Carlos_]

The main issue is probably that your angle is off and/or you are doing too many passes.

Bottom line- use little no pressure on the razor, take minimal passes, watch your angle, and KEEP PRACTICING. It can take a while to unlearn the habits of shaving with a cartidge. Establishing a successful routine can take several weeks or even months. For me, i was getting acceptable shaves after about 6 weeks, much better shaves at three months, terrific shaves at around 6 to 8 months. I'm now at ten months, and Am still improving. It is a PROCESS, NOT AN EVENT.

Stick with it and hang in there, and eventually it will be worth it.

Thank you, I had no idea it could take that long? but my face will thank me for it...

[gollum83]

Got it, thanks no ATG for me, when do I know I'm ready for ATG?

Good question! I just started attempting this again, today in fact, so there's somebody else out there that can not doubt explain this better then me. Still I would say I would say it really comes down to confidence. If you are confident that you know your face, if you are confident that you got your prep down, then and only then would I attempt it. When that depends on the person. With me, it happened to be three weeks into shaving with a DE because all I really had to work on was getting to know my own face better. I solved all the prep issues when I started wetshaving with a cheapy drugstore boar hair brush a year ago. If anybody else has anything else to add feel free to chime in.

[Zach V.]

Thank you, I had no idea it could take that long? but my face will thank me for it...

Yes, it can take awhile, but like I said, after a solid month or two you should be getting at least acceptable shaves without irritation- they might not be extremely close at that point- the closeness will come on its own, in time, naturally, with much practice. The biggest thing is applying no pressure, not pressing down the razor, and keeping a consistent angle of the razor while you shave- you have to get your hand and arm re-coordinated to adjust to the different style of shaving- a lot of the cartridge shaving habits will persist for a while on unconscious levels. But you will get over them.

This has just been my experience. Good luck

[strat1117]

Have you tried a pre-shave oil (e.g., AoS) in addition to the latehr? Some guys find that it "gums up" theri razors, but I have not found that to be the case. Of course, I get rid of my blades after 3 shaves, and I don't have the coarsest beard or the most sensitive skin, but I do find that it makes a difference.

Good luck!

[Carlos_]

There is a lot of advice being given here but I'm going to chip in my two penn'th!

- When everyone says use light pressure on the DE razor they really mean virtually no pressure.

- How many passes are you using? Try shaving with a single with-the-grain pass. You won't get a baby's-bottom-smooth face from that, but a single pass shouldn't irritate your face while you are learning the light touch and correct angle. After a week or two you can add an across-the-grain pass as a second pass but only when you can shave without irritating your skin.

- What angle are you holding the razor at? Switch off the music, turn off the tap and listen while you move the razor over your face. The correct angle will give a sound like opening a velcro fastner as it cuts your beard.

Stick with your present kit, varying soaps, blades, brushes and razors is tempting, but it is your technique that is giving you a sore face. Go forwards slowly, one shave at a time and remember that Rome wasn't built in a day.

I was doing 1-2 WTG and 3-4 (ATG) which I now understand it was a costly mistake.

What do you mean by across the grain? is that ATG? I thought ATG meant Against The Grain? :confused:

my growth for the most part is W-E :mad: which is extremely uncomfortable

I will follow your advice.

[strat1117]

I was doing 1-2 WTG and 3-4 (ATG) which I now understand it was a costly mistake.

What do you mean by across the grain? is that ATG? I thought ATG meant Against The Grain? :confused:

my growth for the most part is W-E :mad: which is extremely uncomfortable

I will follow your advice.

ATG = Against the grain (opposite direction of WTG, in your case E-W in stead of W-E)
XTG = Across the grain (perpendicular or 90 degrees from WTG, in your case N-S or S-N instead of W-E)

Hope that helps.

[Carlos_]

Have you tried a pre-shave oil (e.g., AoS) in addition to the latehr? Some guys find that it "gums up" theri razors, but I have not found that to be the case. Of course, I get rid of my blades after 3 shaves, and I don't have the coarsest beard or the most sensitive skin, but I do find that it makes a difference.

Good luck!

If all else fails, I'll give that a shot. I was told Apricot oil/Coconut oil are the best of choice but I'm willing to try the over the counter stuff as long it doesn't clog my pores (pimples)

[Hillie]

Thank you, I had no idea it could take that long? but my face will thank me for it...

It can take long, especially if you're not "aware" of your movements. When you move the blade across your face, understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. Move consciously and don't take on too much.

You can compare it with going to the gym. You see these tiny scrawny kids with dumbells that are 20lbs too heavy for them to be able to do their exercise properly. So they make all kinds of silly movements, get the thing in the general direction of where it should go and think they're successful at it. But it just doesn't make any sense, as their muscles don't benefit from the shitty performance because they took on too much. And I get the polite smiles when I am more effective with smaller weights. :rolleyes:

The same goes for shaving. Consider WTG the lower weight and ATG the higher weight. If you're fully comfortable with the lower weight, can do the exercise well and perform the movements correctly (you've got a mirror to check yourself, that's what they're there for in the gym as well, not to perve at your own muscles :biggrin:), you can think about taking on a bigger challenge. But take your time, some can do ATG standing on top of their heads the second day, others take weeks or months.


All this is just about movement. Of course you'll want to make sure you use a non-irritating product!

Good luck!

[Teiste]

Pressure is what I am thinking as well.


DL
Yes,presure could be the problem (specially using a IP red pack) Also to many passes over the same spot without lather.
Let your beard growth for a couple days(if you could) and feel/see how your wiskers are growthing and the direction that they take.Maybe you can use less passes if you know the most efective way to cut them(maybe 2 passes XTG or 1 XTG and 1 ATG)
Good luck and dont give up yet man!

[Carlos_]

Yes,presure could be the problem (specially using a IP red pack) Also to many passes over the same spot without lather.
Let your beard growth for a couple days(if you could) and feel/see how your wiskers are growthing and the direction that they take.Maybe you can use less passes if you know the most efective way to cut them(maybe 2 passes XTG or 1 XTG and 1 ATG)
Good luck and dont give up yet man!

I moved from a Merkur blade to a IP Red Pack and got over confident.

I did apply pressure, I did not respect the angle.

I paid the price.

[Zach V.]

I moved from a Merkur blade to a IP Red Pack and got over confident.

I did apply pressure, I did not respect the angle.

I paid the price.

We all have been there. Myself, in the beginning, I had several sessions of over doing things and ending up with irrtation. Most to blame was bad angle, too much pressure, and too many passes. The more fine-tuned your angle gets, the less passes you will have to make- that's a huge key in this whole thing.

But "paying the price" gets less and less frequent as time goes by, take comfort in knowing that. Eventually, you'll never "pay the price" again, except for maybe an extremely rare, fluke thing.

[strat1117]

If all else fails, I'll give that a shot. I was told Apricot oil/Coconut oil are the best of choice but I'm willing to try the over the counter stuff as long it doesn't clog my pores (pimples)

I've never experienced that problem with the AoS oil, but that is a matter of skin type, etc., so I would have no idea.

[Carlos_]

We all have been there. Myself, in the beginning, I had several sessions of over doing things and ending up with irrtation. Most to blame was bad angle, too much pressure, and too many passes. The more fine-tuned your angle gets, the less passes you will have to make- that's a huge key in this whole thing.

But "paying the price" gets less and less frequent as time goes by, take comfort in knowing that. Eventually, you'll never "pay the price" again, except for maybe an extremely rare, fluke thing.

Thank's I almost gave up, but I'll give it another shot.

[Carlos_]

I've never experienced that problem with the AoS oil, but that is a matter of skin type, etc., so I would have no idea.

oil prep plus shave cream/gel lather or just the oil?

[strat1117]

oil prep plus shave cream/gel lather or just the oil?

I apply the oil first, then lather without removing the oil. But I don't normally have pore clogging problems, so I don't know whether or not this might create a problem with your skin type.

Good luck!

[Wilpar76]

It sounds like you are pressing too hard, which is easy to do if you are used to shaving with disposable razors. As the other senior members of B&B have recommended, check your blade angling, and let the heft of the razor guide your hand. Don't press down.

Also, have you mapped out the patter of your growth. This isn't as elaborate as it seems, just take note of the direction of the hair growth on different parts of your face. The cotton ball trick works well too.

Give your face a couple of days to heal before you try again, but don't give up too soon.

[Carlos_]

It sounds like you are pressing too hard, which is easy to do if you are used to shaving with disposable razors. As the other senior members of B&B have recommended, check your blade angling, and let the heft of the razor guide your hand. Don't press down.

Also, have you mapped out the patter of your growth. This isn't as elaborate as it seems, just take note of the direction of the hair growth on different parts of your face. The cotton ball trick works well too.

Give your face a couple of days to heal before you try again, but don't give up too soon.

Cotton ball trick? Is that to determine the growth direction?

[antdad1969]

Yes cotton wool trick to determine direction of growth, but equally careful close examination of your skin by eye will do. Please check mantic59 videos on Utube for excellent instruction. And for my 2 cents worth.

Absolutely positively two passes WTG only!!

Good Luck

[Crazy Dave]

Well I hear were you're coming from Dave. I'm in my mid-20's and have a thick beard. ATG passes do help a lot because I know it did when I was using a Mach3. Couldn't get a decent shave without them. Still I wouldn't recommend Carlos does an ATG pass until he gets his DE technique down pat with the irritation he's seeing. You might be able to get away with it early on, but if you have sensitive skin forget it. I got cocky that first DE shave and I paid for it with a ton of razor bumps, ingrown hairs and a few little whitehead pimples.

I think you are right. Carlos shold not do ATG. From reading others' posts, my skin must be on the tough side. I am still working on my technique, but I have a large margin of error.

Dave

[nrek619]

lots of great info here for you Carlos so I won't chime in too much. sounds like too much pressure. let the blade do the cutting not your hand. the Red Packs are my favorite and I've never had a problem with them so you should try a sample pack from West Coast shaving to find your true blade. also...I use the American Personnas (Walmart) and get consistent great shaves with them. and be sure to re wet your face in between passes!!!! a dry lather is bad.....mmmk...!!??