View Full Version : a friodur or wacker?
I want to hear from you wacker and friodur guys out there, what has been your experience with staining on the blade of the wacker? Is it preventable? I am looking at the 7/8-8/8 friodur or the 6/8 quarter ground wacker because my beard is course. What is your experience with these razors?
I want to hear from you wacker and friodur guys out there, what has been your experience with staining on the blade of the wacker? Is it preventable? I am looking at the 7/8-8/8 friodur or the 6/8 quarter ground wacker because my beard is course. What is your experience with these razors?
What is your experience with straight razors? What is your level/skill at honing/stropping etc? Are you a large gentlemen? Do you have large hands?
For what it is worth - I typically find most fellas over-estimate how thick/coarse their beard is, and they tend to go overboard. Have you tried other options, and had them not work out properly?
If you truly have a REALLY coarse beard - you'll want to get an 8/8 Friodur, with the heavest handle possible, more than likely the stag horn.
mparker762
10-26-2006, 05:52 AM
The staining/rusting issue with carbon blades is way overblown. Just wipe it down and let it dry a few minutes while you're getting dressed, and give it a quick swipe with an oilcloth if you're gonna put it away for a while and you'll be fine.
That said, I've got a Wacker and several Friodurs (4/8, 5/8, 7/8, and 8/8) and while the Wacker is extremely good I prefer the Friodurs. They all take an edge pretty easily - while it does take more laps on the hone they're still very straightforward to sharpen; the Wacker is a bit fussier on the hone.
The staining/rusting issue with carbon blades is way overblown. Just wipe it down and let it dry a few minutes while you're getting dressed, and give it a quick swipe with an oilcloth if you're gonna put it away for a while and you'll be fine.
That said, I've got a Wacker and several Friodurs (4/8, 5/8, 7/8, and 8/8) and while the Wacker is extremely good I prefer the Friodurs. They all take an edge pretty easily - while it does take more laps on the hone they're still very straightforward to sharpen; the Wacker is a bit fussier on the hone.
Do you find that since you have used the 7/8-8/8 blade you prefer your 6/8?
I'm not a large faced man, and new to str8's (answer to joel) but my beard often does not get very closley shaven with proper badger lathering and fresh merkur saftey razors with multiple passes in correct pattern. thus I believe my beard is coarse to very course. I only say this based on my difficulty getting it cut short and also my beard hair diameter when I grew a full beard 2 years ago.
Do you find that since you have used the 7/8-8/8 blade you prefer your 6/8?
I'm not a large faced man, and new to str8's (answer to joel) but my beard often does not get very closley shaven with proper badger lathering and fresh merkur saftey razors with multiple passes in correct pattern. thus I believe my beard is coarse to very course. I only say this based on my difficulty getting it cut short and also my beard hair diameter when I grew a full beard 2 years ago.
For a beginner you do NOT want an 8/8 - TRUST me. I assure you, you will more than likely cut your ear, especially if you have a really tough beard. I'd start with a 6/8ths.
On a side note - merkur safety razor blades will not shave me close... at all, under any circumstances, without causing tremendous irritation. If it is simply closeness/quality of the shave you are looking for, I strongly urge you to try Derby and Feather double edge razor blades, prior to making the Straight Razor plunge.
For a beginner you do NOT want an 8/8 - TRUST me. I assure you, you will more than likely cut your ear, especially if you have a really tough beard. I'd start with a 6/8ths.
On a side note - merkur safety razor blades will not shave me close... at all, under any circumstances, without causing tremendous irritation. If it is simply closeness/quality of the shave you are looking for, I strongly urge you to try Derby and Feather double edge razor blades, prior to making the Straight Razor plunge.
Joel, You are awesome. Thanks for the hot tip! You are a high class fellow. I am ready to learn to str8 shave and have already ordered the 4 box pre pasted strop from tony and am ready to learn to hone with the 4000/8000 from thebestthings.com---If I am still going to alternate with the safety, what about the israeli blades? 100 for 16 bucks including shipping on ebay right now. I am also leaning towards john's advice for My beard about going with the wacker 1/4 ground 6/8. Do you think a 1/4 ground is really all that better for closeness than the full hollow styles?
thanks,
Jason
jnich67
10-26-2006, 01:39 PM
Do you find that since you have used the 7/8-8/8 blade you prefer your 6/8?
I'm not a large faced man, and new to str8's (answer to joel) but my beard often does not get very closley shaven with proper badger lathering and fresh merkur saftey razors with multiple passes in correct pattern. thus I believe my beard is coarse to very course. I only say this based on my difficulty getting it cut short and also my beard hair diameter when I grew a full beard 2 years ago.
Keep in mind that learning to shave with a straight will take some time. So don't expect really close comfy shaves right off the bat. Patience is key. That said, enjoy the process and keep asking questions.
I've been leaning towards the heavier grinds (not necessarily greater widths) lately myself, but I also have a number of full hollows that provide outstanding shaves. You'll just have to try a bunch of different razors and see what you like:biggrin:
Oh yeah, and buy Lynn Abrams The World of Straight Razors DVD. You can find a sticky on it at Straightrazorplace.com in the buy/sell forum. Its worth every penny.
Jordan
Jordan do you think that you can get closer with the safety blades or the
st8s? thanks for the wisdom jordan--your a high class fellow. Great comaradere here at B and B.
Jason.
Jordan do you think that you can get closer with the safety blades or the
st8s? thanks for the wisdom jordan--your a high class fellow. Great comaradere here at B and B.
Jason.
Jason,
To answer your question directly to me (from a few posts above) I think the Isralie's are not as good as derby's or feathers. Also - to help you out a little with the question above, you may want to take a look at this post. (http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=544)
Hope I've helped!:biggrin:
mparker762
10-26-2006, 07:09 PM
Do you find that since you have used the 7/8-8/8 blade you prefer your 6/8?
I'm not a large faced man, and new to str8's (answer to joel) but my beard often does not get very closley shaven with proper badger lathering and fresh merkur saftey razors with multiple passes in correct pattern. thus I believe my beard is coarse to very course. I only say this based on my difficulty getting it cut short and also my beard hair diameter when I grew a full beard 2 years ago.
I've got everything from 3/8 to 8/8, and I find myself gravitating to 5/8 and 7/8, the 6/8's just kind of get lost - they're not big enough for the days when i've got a lot to mow, and they're not as light or handy as the 5/8s. I've got a heavy beard and I don't find the blade size to be terribly important anymore, as long as the blade is reasonably stiff and will take a sharp edge. If you've got a heavy beard you might want to consider a cryogenic-hardened stainless razor like the Henckels Friodur, they tend to hold an edge better than carbon blades.
Steelforge
10-26-2006, 09:26 PM
You know I was agonising over this decision too, so I bought one of each! They haven't arrived yet (any day now I hope) so I haven't been able to compare them. I bought a 7/8 Friodur and a 6/8 quarter ground spanish point Wacker.
jnich67
10-27-2006, 06:48 AM
Jordan do you think that you can get closer with the safety blades or the
st8s? thanks for the wisdom jordan--your a high class fellow. Great comaradere here at B and B.
Jason.
Jason, you will see many different opinions on this subject and they are all valid in some way. In the end, its up to you. Try them both and see what you like.
At this point, I can get just as close with a straight as I was ever able to with a DE razor and I still have a way to go before I'd call myself "proficient" with the straight. But - it took several months of shaving 5-6 times a week with a straight to get here and the first few shaves were pretty mediocre. I still enjoyed them though. I'm sure others have learned faster than I did, but you get the idea. It takes practice and patience.
If all you care about is a good close and convenient shave. Go with the DE. You'll get that. It’s the whole process of the straight, including the quality of the shave that appeals to many.
Jordan
Jason,
To answer your question directly to me (from a few posts above) I think the Isralie's are not as good as derby's or feathers. Also - to help you out a little with the question above, you may want to take a look at this post. (http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=544)
Hope I've helped!:biggrin:
thanks joel,
I bought a wacker spanish point yesterday from john in the 1/4 hollow grind in a 6/8th. A little spendy, but with lots of practice stropping, honing, technique-- I think I will really enjoy this old method of shaving. I wonder what some of the older guys in the B and B think of us young bucks starting to shave with these archaic devices. I also bought some derbys to use with the merkur razor instead of the israelie's
thanks joel,
I bought a wacker spanish point yesterday from john in the 1/4 hollow grind in a 6/8th. A little spendy, but with lots of practice stropping, honing, technique-- I think I will really enjoy this old method of shaving. I wonder what some of the older guys in the B and B think of us young bucks starting to shave with these archaic devices. I also bought some derbys to use with the merkur razor instead of the israelie's
My .02 - I would probably get a much less expensive razor to start out with. Keep the wacker around until you are proficient with the "cheapie" - then move to it. When you start shaving, you'll have a much greater chance of dropping the razor (whilst stropping) banging the blade against the sink, etc etc. I know, I know - everyone thinks "there is no way I will do that" - but trust me... truth is, most guys end up slicing their first strop, and damaging or severly dulling their first razor. From first hand experience, I know the Wacker steel is VERY, VERY hard stuff, and if you dull that razor, and are not experienced/proficient in sharpening it, you'll have one hell of a hard time getting it back to where it needs to be. God forbid you drop the thing, or ding the blade, and that is a mighty nice/expensive razor you've damaged.
I'd recommend also getting one of the $50-60 razors John sells, or getting a vintage pre-honed razor to start with, then move on to the wacker when you're ready. With a "starter razor" provided you don't ruin it, you'll be able to sell it to a new guy starting, for about what you pay for it, so it won't be much of a loss, at least $ wise.
Hope this helps :smile:
Suzuki
10-28-2006, 04:07 AM
I'd recommend also getting one of the $50-60 razors John sells, or getting a vintage pre-honed razor to start with, then move on to the wacker when you're ready. With a "starter razor" provided you don't ruin it, you'll be able to sell it to a new guy starting, for about what you pay for it, so it won't be much of a loss, at least $ wise.
For what its worth, I'm in the same boat - I spoke to John and he says that his entry level razors shave as well as the higher end razors - they're just not as pretty. His entry level razors start at $55 for a round tip an $75 for a spike (both 6/8 size). You can buy two of these razors for less than a single wacker. I've tried straight shaving before and, while I keep drooling over the Wacker's, I think I'm going to buy a couple of the entry level razors from John to shave with (pre-honed) and some decent stuff off of e-bay to practice my honing technique.
As Joel says, I can likely sell the entry level stuff pretty easily without loosing too much - so long as I don't screw up the blades or slash the strop to bits.
I've decided to hold off on the Wacker (or any high-end razor) until I know I'm going to stick with it and have confidence in my ability to properly maintain a straight.
There's no right or wrong, I would just feel pretty bad if I ruined a masterpiece through my own incompetence.
I ordered the wacker based on lots of reviews here and from John. The more coarse your beard--the stiffer the blade you will need. John said I can also go with the friodur and get the same results. The thinner the blade the worse the shave if you have a coarse beard--according to him. This whole adventure is very interesting and exciting.
I ordered the wacker based on lots of reviews here and from John. The more coarse your beard--the stiffer the blade you will need. John said I can also go with the friodur and get the same results. The thinner the blade the worse the shave if you have a coarse beard--according to him. This whole adventure is very interesting and exciting.
There are fellas in all different camps as far as that goes... there are the big razor fans, wedge fans, 1/2 hollow, etc.... Personally I think it boils down to steel quality, and the edge you get on your razor. I have a few 4/8th's that shave every bit as good as my choppers, and I have a pretty tough beard.
mparker762
10-28-2006, 05:29 PM
The more coarse your beard--the stiffer the blade you will need. John said I can also go with the friodur and get the same results.
The blade's got to be very thin indeed before it will have much of a negative effect. The Friodur is almost certainly a full hollow blade, but it's still stiff enough to do the job; my 4/8, 5/8, 7/8, and 8/8 friodurs shave equally well, though I do prefer the 7/8 slightly. I've got a very hard beard and only have one razor that has trouble with it - a very thin singing Wacker. More important than grind are sharpness, steel quality, and fin strength. Weight has some importance since it adds stability, and the extra momentum helps a bit in the tougher areas around the chin.
There are fellas in all different camps as far as that goes... there are the big razor fans, wedge fans, 1/2 hollow, etc.... Personally I think it boils down to steel quality, and the edge you get on your razor. I have a few 4/8th's that shave every bit as good as my choppers, and I have a pretty tough beard.
joel,
thanks for the insight. After talking with John from shavingshop.com I realized that after a while of practice I should be able to go a day without a shave with the str8. I will be careful with my wacker--there is reason to believe this will stay valuable due to the shortage of blanks. If the 1/4 grind was made for fellas with a stiff beard--I should have an advantage. As far as this new adventure goes, Lynns dvd should be helpful :001_smile Also still waiting on my derby's for my DE Merkur. Got a super badger brush vulfix #40 in the mail yesterday--wow what a great feel on my face that was this morning. Trying some truefitt and hill creme and after shave in the west indian limes scent since I like my conk lime scented soap. But I want to venture into the other scented land too in time. Am I gooing to be able to pay my office bill next month?
The blade's got to be very thin indeed before it will have much of a negative effect. The Friodur is almost certainly a full hollow blade, but it's still stiff enough to do the job; my 4/8, 5/8, 7/8, and 8/8 friodurs shave equally well, though I do prefer the 7/8 slightly. I've got a very hard beard and only have one razor that has trouble with it - a very thin singing Wacker. More important than grind are sharpness, steel quality, and fin strength. Weight has some importance since it adds stability, and the extra momentum helps a bit in the tougher areas around the chin.
Wow, its really awesome to get all this input. I am looking forward to the 1/4 grind wacker coming soon. If I like str8 shaving, I will invest in a full hollow ground razor down the road just to see the difference. But I would rather start out with something that has legends of doing better on tougher beards.
I'll let you know how it goes and post my successes or failures with the 1/4 ground wacker spanish point.
Best regards,
Jason
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