Shavemac [Custom D01] Discussion Thread

[andrew98]

What are some techiques you all are using to get lather to come out of the brush. I know someone mentioned to load brush with tips and light pressure. I think i also saw just to use more soap or cream.

Any other techniques? Maybe plunging? How about just squeezing the brush at it's base?

Usually by the 3rd pass i have to really work on getting some lather where the C&E brush has plenty of lather for the 3rd pass.

I generally hold the brush by the base of the hair with the bottom of the handle resting against my palm when I apply lather. A Mantic video technique. This may help keep the lather near the bristle tips since you're sort of squeezing the base of the knot.

-Andy

[pj_rage]

What are some techiques you all are using to get lather to come out of the brush. I know someone mentioned to load brush with tips and light pressure. I think i also saw just to use more soap or cream.

Any other techniques? Maybe plunging? How about just squeezing the brush at it's base?

Usually by the 3rd pass i have to really work on getting some lather where the C&E brush has plenty of lather for the 3rd pass.Interesting that you are noticing this too.

Since I posted my mini-review where I stated that I had great lather for the first two passes but have to recharge on the puck for a third pass, I've been trying to load even longer to see if I can fix this. But to no avail yet. For whatever reason, this brush can't seem to hold enough lather for my third pass? I can get a thin, almost usable 3rd pass worth of lather if I initially load more aggressively and for at least twice as long as I do with my Rooney, but this thin 3rd lather still leaves something to be desired. (This is all with face lathering FWIW). I don't mean for this to take away from the brush, because I still enjoy using it and having to recharge with soap isn't a big deal, it's just a little perplexing.

I have a couple more ideas to try out still, and I think it's possible, I just haven't found the secret yet. I'm thinking that this brush actually holds a little less overall water than the Rooney and when I do the same squeeze and shake that I do with the Rooney before charging, it's a bit too dry to load really well. I'm going to try to leave a tad more water in it before loading to see if it helps.

[biomesh]

After the second or third pass, squeeze the base to get the lather that is hiding in the brush. I do this every time I shave.

[millertime150]

After the second or third pass, squeeze the base to get the lather that is hiding in the brush. I do this every time I shave.


I never did this but when I am rinsing my brush out I notice a lot of lather that I squeeze out.

[pj_rage]

I never did this but when I am rinsing my brush out I notice a lot of lather that I squeeze out.Lol, agreeing with you again. I do wash out a decent amount from the shavemac, even after it tried to lather a weak 3rd pass. I think after 2 passes it hogs the hell out of what's left? Maybe I have to adjust for this and get back to squeezing some lather out like I did with my Vulfix before the Rooney.

[Cuttingboard]

I have no problems loading, I have an enormous amount of lather on my brush, I just can't get it on my face. I do pretty brisk circular motion when applying lather to my face and I always notice that I have more lather on the brush and flying through the air than on my face. This is my first "real" quality brush and I'm trying to adjust, is this the norm for more softer, higher quality brushes?

[MrFusion]

I agree with the above that this brush is a lather hog. I make lather in a bowl and always have enough lather for all the passes I want to make and then some but it can be a challenge to get the lather out of the brush.

I'll say this though, the Shavemac is not near the lather hog as my Rooney 3/1. That sucker just takes all the lather and won't give it back! :lol:

[mretzloff]

If you guys are having trouble getting lather, use more product and use zero pressure when bowl lathering. I did this and the lather-hogging isn't a problem anymore.

[andrew98]

I agree with the above that this brush is a lather hog. I make lather in a bowl and always have enough lather for all the passes I want to make and then some but it can be a challenge to get the lather out of the brush.

I'll say this though, the Shavemac is not near the lather hog as my Rooney 3/1. That sucker just takes all the lather and won't give it back! :lol:

It's also firmer than your Rooney isn't it?

-Andy

[huntmol]

If you're still having a problem with the brush being a lather hog, I've heard some say that they squeeze the base of the bristles after the 2nd pass, so the lather comes out and can be used for the 3rd pass. Maybe try that?

[Cuttingboard]

If you're still having a problem with the brush being a lather hog, I've heard some say that they squeeze the base of the bristles after the 2nd pass, so the lather comes out and can be used for the 3rd pass. Maybe try that?

Bernd should have supplied me with a shavemac towel so that I can wipe up the lather that jumps off the brush and on the bathroom walls and counter top.

[SRock]

I picked mine up in a different group buy a few months ago. I got a Style 595 in Faux Horn with a bulb shape in 21mm (D01 Silvertip of course:biggrin:).

[rgjr]

I haven't used my Rooney since I started using the Shavemac. The D01 is very nice on the face.

[Cuttingboard]

I haven't used my Rooney since I started using the Shavemac. The D01 is very nice on the face.

You are correct, very very nice on the face.

I've been trying to get through TGQ samples since receiving my new shavemac and today I shaved with my daily soap, Provence Sante, and was able to create a mound of lather on the brush. Mostly on the sides and around the handle. What are you guys doing to get the lather from the sides of the brush to your face? I've read that some of you hold the brush just above the handle/knot and rest the top of the handle in your palm. How is this working? I do notice that when I wash the brush, tons of soap coming out. Is this problem exclusive to soaps or are people using creams having the same issues?

[millertime150]

Mostly on the sides and around the handle. What are you guys doing to get the lather from the sides of the brush to your face? I've read that some of you hold the brush just above the handle/knot and rest the top of the handle in your palm. How is this working? I do notice that when I wash the brush, tons of soap coming out. Is this problem exclusive to soaps or are people using creams having the same issues?

I always held my brush with the base of handle in my palm and holding the knot at the base (I probably saw mantic do that). I still get lather deep in my brush and a lot on the sides. As far as the side lather I just paint it on my face like Danielsan on karate kid. Last night i tried to squeeze some lather out of my brush for the 3rd pass and was able to get a bit more lather on to my face. Also i use soaps and creams with the same issues.

[lsbrodsky]

I have a custom Shavemac for bowl lathering, purchased a while ago and one for face lathering purchased through this buy. I use only creams. First of all, I found it takes almost two weeks for the brush to break in and demonstrate its full capability for generating lather. Secondly, the brushes hold much more water than other brushes and need to be shaken before making lather. Finally, I need to be soft in the application of lather to my face, swiping and swirling the brush on my face to get lather out of the brush. Yes, I can squeeze it as in the Mantic video, but I don't find it necessary if I use it like a paintbrush for a few strokes. I am getting more than enough lather for 4 passes and the soft tips are great on the face. I lather a 5th time when I am done, just because it feels good. Wonderful brushes and it would be hard to ever use anything else.
Larry

[millertime150]

lsbrodsky,

Just out of curiousity when you shake do you gently shake in an up and down motion or at I guess a diagonal sideways shake.


Also the D01 is my only silvertip. i know it is more dense than some of the other silvertips but how do you compare the softness of the tips to other silvertips. If you can give me an example of a silvertip that is rougher and one that is softer that would be awesome.

Do you feel any scritchiness from you D01? If I press with med pressure I can feel a small amount of scritchiness. Say if my C&E BBB would be a 5/10 (10 being the scritchiest and 0 being no scritch at all) right now i would say the D01 is a 2/10. I used it almost eveyday since i received it I think was a little over 1 week ago. Maybe it will get softer.

[Cuttingboard]

I don't really shake mine, I do more of a vertical fling 2-3 times and a light squeeze and my brush is pretty dry. I want the brush to be damp when a make lather via several swirls and a couple plunger motions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed in my shavemac, its a wonderful brush and soft as a cloud. It almost like dating, we're just getting to know each other and before long, we'll be completing each other sentences.:smile:

[lsbrodsky]

I flick my brush to shake it, I guess that is more of a diagonal shake. I have gotten to counting 7-8 shakes. Seems like that should shake a lot of water out, but it still holds a lot. Besides it is easy to add more water if you need it.
I don't know about any brush as soft on the tips as these D01 Shavemacs. I have a Rooney Heritage Alibaba as my prior best brush and it is definitely "scritchier". The beauty of these D01's is that they are not floppy, while also being very soft. Maybe somebody on the forum has found a multi-hundred dollar brush that works as well and feels as good as these, but I don't know what it is.
Larry

[joelmole]

I don't know about any brush as soft on the tips as these D01 Shavemacs.
Larry

My QED Select brush is very soft on the tips, but nowhere near as much backbone or density as the D01. It has taken a bit to adjust to the new brush, particularly since it is still breaking in. I wonder if I should have gone with a fan instead of a bulb (the QED brush is a bulb). Maybe I'll get a fan style at some point too when the sticker shock of this purchase has worn off.

[andrew98]

...Also the D01 is my only silvertip. i know it is more dense than some of the other silvertips but how do you compare the softness of the tips to other silvertips. If you can give me an example of a silvertip that is rougher and one that is softer that would be awesome.

Do you feel any scritchiness from you D01? If I press with med pressure I can feel a small amount of scritchiness. Say if my C&E BBB would be a 5/10 (10 being the scritchiest and 0 being no scritch at all) right now i would say the D01 is a 2/10. I used it almost eveyday since i received it I think was a little over 1 week ago. Maybe it will get softer.

Good luck finding a softer brush. Get a Rooney if you want to know scritchy. Still a nice brush. Give the D01 2 or 3 more weeks, then see what you think.

-Andy

[andrew98]

Bernd should have supplied me with a shavemac towel so that I can wipe up the lather that jumps off the brush and on the bathroom walls and counter top.

Are you shaving or directing an orchestra?

-Andy

[mretzloff]

Do you feel any scritchiness from you D01? If I press with med pressure I can feel a small amount of scritchiness. Say if my C&E BBB would be a 5/10 (10 being the scritchiest and 0 being no scritch at all) right now i would say the D01 is a 2/10. I used it almost eveyday since i received it I think was a little over 1 week ago. Maybe it will get softer.

I think the D01 is a little scritchy, but it's fine. If it wasn't at least a little scritchy, it would defeat the purpose of using a brush (to exfoliate your skin).

[millertime150]

Good luck finding a softer brush. Get a Rooney if you want to know scritchy. Still a nice brush. Give the D01 2 or 3 more weeks, then see what you think.

-Andy

I don't think I would want a much softer brush but i was just wondering if there was. i think the d01 is perfect softness. Any softer it may not load soap that easy even with the denseness.

[wizard]

Are you shaving or directing an orchestra?

-Andy

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[RGB480]

Are you shaving or directing an orchestra?

-Andy


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh I needed a good laugh tonight... Thank you.

[Cuttingboard]

Are you shaving or directing an orchestra?

-Andy

Even though I'm talented in some areas, music and face lathering are not one of those areas. At least I have a more than even chance at becoming better at face lathering than playing a musical instrument. :biggrin: While I'm lathering in a circular motion, out of the corner of my eyes I can see lather flying off my brush and on to the mirror and counter top. Maybe I should slow it down a bit.

[andrew98]

Even though I'm talented in some areas, music and face lathering are not one of those areas. At least I have a more than even chance at becoming better at face lathering than playing a musical instrument. :biggrin: While I'm lathering in a circular motion, out of the corner of my eyes I can see lather flying off my brush and on to the mirror and counter top. Maybe I should slow it down a bit.

Sorry to poke a bit of fun, but thanks for taking it well. :smile:

-Andy

[Cuttingboard]

Sorry to poke a bit of fun, but thanks for taking it well. :smile:

-Andy

No worries...I poke fun at people all the time and I expect it in return. :w00t:

[rgjr]

I think the D01 is a little scritchy, but it's fine. If it wasn't at least a little scritchy, it would defeat the purpose of using a brush (to exfoliate your skin).

Not as scritchy as the B&B Essential brush. I have only used this brush once due to that fact.

[Cuttingboard]

When's the next Shavemac Group Buy? I need another so that the present one doesn't get lonely.

[millertime150]

When's the next Shavemac Group Buy? I need another so that the present one doesn't get lonely.


Maybe we can get a group buy for Simpson, Rooney, or Kent. Variety is the key to life (or whatever the saying is). I do love my Shavemac though.

[Cuttingboard]

Maybe we can get a group buy for Simpson, Rooney, or Kent. Variety is the key to life (or whatever the saying is). I do love my Shavemac though.


Good idea, maybe we can start a poll to see which manufacturer we would like to have for the next group buy?

[mretzloff]

Good idea, maybe we can start a poll to see which manufacturer we would like to have for the next group buy?

Good idea. How do you start a poll?

[Cuttingboard]

Good idea. How do you start a poll?

No idea.:confused:

[millertime150]

Good idea. How do you start a poll?

When you create a new post scroll down the page and you will see poll and how many option you want in the poll. Once you hit submit another page will come up where you can do the poll.

[Cuttingboard]

Which brushes should we include in the poll? And what price point should we target? And at what price point will we be able to attract more buyers? Thoughts?

1. Rooney
2. Kent
3. Vulfix
4. Simpson

[mretzloff]

Which brushes should we include in the poll? And what price point should we target? And at what price point will we be able to attract more buyers? Thoughts?

1. Rooney
2. Kent
3. Vulfix
4. Simpson

I think we need to look at what websites are offering and then contact the owner and ask if they could do a group buy.

[Cuttingboard]

I think we need to look at what websites are offering and then contact the owner and ask if they could do a group buy.

Yeah...just trying to figure out who should be targeted.

[andrew98]

Make sure to get the mods to approve a group buy if you put one together. Or call it something else maybe. :biggrin:

-Andy

[Cuttingboard]

Make sure to get the mods to approve a group buy if you put one together. Or call it something else maybe. :biggrin:

-Andy

Will do. I was just thinking out loud and wanted to gauge interest. I'm not smart enough to put all of this together.

[huntmol]

I think we need to look at what websites are offering and then contact the owner and ask if they could do a group buy.

Definitely check with them first. You wouldn't want to promise 30 guys a good deal on a brush only to tell them that their favorite brushmaker is only offering them a 5% discount.


Make sure to get the mods to approve a group buy if you put one together. Or call it something else maybe. :biggrin:
-Andy

:lol::lol::lol: Yeah, I think "Group Sale" is the accepted term around here!

[joelmole]

I just wanted to say that I had a good 3 days growth this morning, and shaved using L'occitane Cade. My Shavemac has really transformed the performance of this soap for me. I liked it before, but with my QED brush the lather ended up rather thin. This is one of those soaps that I don't soak with water while I shower, because the bowl it comes in doesn't really allow that. The hairs on my old brush didn't have enough backbone to really load it up since the the top layer of the soap was not softened. The Shavemac doesn't have a problem at all.

And now that the brush has broken in and the hairs are a bit more flexible, I'm really enjoying it. If we do another Shavemac "group sale" I'll likely pick up a fan too.

[Cuttingboard]

If we do another Shavemac "group sale" I'll likely pick up a fan too.

Yes, I would like to order another in fan shape.

[millertime150]

How much pressure is ideal with the D01?
I love how dense and soft the D01 is but I still can't produce lather as easily as I can with my C&E BBB mainly with my soaps but my C&E BBB lathers better with creams also. I have experimented with the water ratio no no success. I also used just the tips to load and lather but I still do not get enough lather and the brush hogs lather also. The rest of the lather seems to go the the perimeter/outside of the brush.

Right now my $35 C&E BBB outperforms my $130 brush. Don't get me wrong the Shavemac performs well and is very dense and soft which I like. I just expected it to performer better than the C&E BBB (not necessarily run circles around it).

Any more suggestions on something i am doing wrong or missing?

[pj_rage]

How much pressure is ideal with the D01?
I love how dense and soft the D01 is but I still can't produce lather as easily as I can with my C&E BBB mainly with my soaps but my C&E BBB lathers better with creams also. I have experimented with the water ratio no no success. I also used just the tips to load and lather but I still do not get enough lather and the brush hogs lather also. The rest of the lather seems to go the the perimeter/outside of the brush.

Right now my $35 C&E BBB outperforms my $130 brush. Don't get me wrong the Shavemac performs well and is very dense and soft which I like. I just expected it to performer better than the C&E BBB (not necessarily run circles around it).

Any more suggestions on something i am doing wrong or missing?I'm actually experiencing the same thing, only vs my Rooney 1/1 super. I'm an exclusive soap user and face latherer. I've never had a single problem using any of my soaps and face lathering from my very first use of the Rooney. But this Shavemac is giving me all sorts of trouble. I can't figure it out! I too have experimented day after day now, with different water ratios, different soap amounts, grabbing at the knot to lather, using "just the tips", using less pressure, using more pressure, squeezing out the last of the lather, etc, etc, but the result is always sub-par lather after the first lathering. The second pass lather is generally pretty good, but not reliably so with all soaps, and the third is reliably thin/poor/dries out in 20 seconds. I actually think that as the brush is breaking in, it is feeling softer and better on the face, but actually doing a worse job at building lather than it did it's first few uses. After my second pass this morning, I actually had to completely rinse the brush out, squeeze/shake it dry, load the soap again, and start all over building lather for my third and final pass. I've never had to do this ever before with either the Rooney or even my Vulfix. Normally reloading on the soap is enough, but not this morning, for some reason. Even regarding reloading on the soap.. I don't think I've ever needed to with the Rooney since I got it, and I can get 4+ passes out of it no problem, but with the Shavemac, I have to reload before the third pass every time, and occasionally even load a little more to get a good second pass.

I can't figure it out, because during the first loading, it seems to be loading and picking up soap just fine, and the lather builds on my face just great that first time, but subsequent latherings get progressively thinner. Usually the second is alright, but the third is always so thin that I need to reload on the soap. I find myself having to "refresh" the lather on my face half way between a pass too, because the lather will have dried out (never with the first lather I built on the face though). The problem honestly seems to be that it hogs the lather. I think this brush basically defines the term "lather hog."

Now, on a more positive note, I've been continuing to use this brush over the Rooney anyway. Partly because I'm stubborn and want to figure the darn thing out, and partly because of the face-feel. It feels amazing. It really does. It is so luxurious and soft, yet dense. It literally feels as I imagine a cloud would, in shaving brush form.

In the end though, for me, the Rooney might just have to be my face-lathering soap brush. It makes the task of lathering so easy and idiot proof that it's a joke. I don't know how I feel about wrestling with and coaxing my brush into making good lather, no matter how good it feels on the face.

I know this post may seem harsh on the famous D01 knot, but I want to clarify that I haven't given up yet and this is still only my to-date impression. I may still figure this brush out for face lathering, and if not, that doesn't take away from the fact that the brush is a great bowl latherer. When bowl lathering and making copious amounts of extra lather, it's lather hoggingness isn't in the forefront. I'm actually thinking that I may try bowl lathering with it again tomorrow just for the heck of it.

[lsbrodsky]

I only use creams and the brush I bought in this purchase was the smallest because I wanted to compare it to my Rooney Alibaba for face lathering. This Shavemac does run circles around the Rooney. I get four good passes of lather without having to reload the brush at all. I have tried a variety of different creams and it works great with all of them. This brush holds a lot of water and face lathering is a mess if you don't shake out most of the water before you start. I use a bit of cream the size of an almond or slightly smaller and go to it. I find it is better to err on the side of too little water because I can always add a bit more water to the brush in a later pass if I need it. However, almost all of the time rinsing my face before the next pass adds enough extra water to bring out plenty of rich lather. I cannot comment on its ability with soap.
Larry

[vior]

My $15 Omega makes just as much lather as my D01 and other more costly brushes I've owned, however the super soft tips combined with a excellent backbone of the D01 makes it my favorite brush, and IMO well worth the price.

If you guys are having trouble getting an adequate lather, try practice lathering on your palm until you find the right mix of water and cream.

[joelmole]

I wonder sometimes with face lathering if some guys "waste" lather on the first pass, not leaving enough for later passes. Either they lay it on too thick, or the lather is not properly developed / hydrated and is much denser than it needs to be.

The reason I mention this is that I've encountered the "not enough lather for multiple passes" phenomenon while face lathering, but the next day, if I load the brush up in the exact same way, with the same soap, but bowl lather, I have plenty to go around. With bowl lathering, since you make a lather "mix" that stays in the bowl, and only take out enough for the current pass, it's probably easier to avoid overloading your face on any one pass.

Maybe one way to avoid this, is on the first pass, after building your lather, brush off any excess and whip your brush over a bowl to deposit it as a reserve for later passes.

I don't know why the characteristics of the D01 might make it more susceptible to this, but it's something to think about. My guess is that if this is a lather hog, you have to load it up quite a bit more than something like the C&E BBB to avoid the above problem.

For the record, when I mentioned shaving with L'occitane Cade above, I bowl lathered.

[Cuttingboard]

I've been experiencing the same phenomenon as pj rage. I love the brush on my face, soft as butter but damn its sucks up the soap. I'll attempt to bowl lather tomorrow as suggested by Joel.

Stupid question but is bowl lathering with soap the same as with a cream? I'm assuming to bowl lather I load the brush and swirl the brush in the bowl as though I was swirling it on my face? Then a little swirling and painting because it would be a shame not to faceterbate.

[mretzloff]

I've been experiencing the same phenomenon as pj rage. I love the brush on my face, soft as butter but damn its sucks up the soap. I'll attempt to bowl lather tomorrow as suggested by Joel.

Stupid question but is bowl lathering with soap the same as with a cream? I'm assuming to bowl lather I load the brush and swirl the brush in the bowl as though I was swirling it on my face? Then a little swirling and painting because it would be a shame not to faceterbate.

It's the same.

I bowl lather and then face lather a little bit. I have enough shaving cream for 4 passes. If I were to reload my brush with what's in my lather bowl, I could get 3 to 4 more passes.

I love my Shavemac. It's awesome.

[andrew98]

...I've never had a single problem using any of my soaps and face lathering from my very first use of the Rooney. But this Shavemac is giving me all sorts of trouble. I can't figure it out! I too have experimented day after day now, with different water ratios, different soap amounts, grabbing at the knot to lather, using "just the tips", using less pressure, using more pressure, squeezing out the last of the lather, etc, etc, but the result is always sub-par lather after the first lathering. The second pass lather is generally pretty good, but not reliably so with all soaps, and the third is reliably thin/poor/dries out in 20 seconds. ...

Maybe you got a dud. Seriously though, try really loading the brush. Press the brush onto the soap or your face after you build some lather to force lather deep into the brush. Per another member's recommendation in this thread, make sure you're not making the lather too thick on your face (i.e. not enough water... I was making that mistake for a while). If you haven't yet, read this (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21136). Worked for me.

I only use soaps and pretty much face lather exclusively, too. My D01 (21mm/50mm) is what prompted me to try face lathering in the first place, and I have never had any trouble with it using this brush.

-Andy

[joelmole]

I've been experiencing the same phenomenon as pj rage. I love the brush on my face, soft as butter but damn its sucks up the soap. I'll attempt to bowl lather tomorrow as suggested by Joel.

Stupid question but is bowl lathering with soap the same as with a cream? I'm assuming to bowl lather I load the brush and swirl the brush in the bowl as though I was swirling it on my face? Then a little swirling and painting because it would be a shame not to faceterbate.

Yeah, it's pretty much the same as a cream. Load the brush, whip it around in the bowl, add water as necessary. I still take a good 60 seconds to apply the lather to my face on the first pass in order to soften things up. Swirl around all over for most of it, then paint in order to smooth it out and remove excess, which goes back into the bowl.

[huntmol]

I think that you guys that are having trouble should keep at it. Give it a few more weeks, or a month or two. Re-read all the B&B stickies, and re-watch all the Mantic videos. I really hope you guys can get to a point where this brush performs exactly how you want it to.

However, while these are great brushes, they can't be the perfect brush for every person. Give it time, but definitely don't try to force yourself to use something that doesn't give you the results you want. I know this is heresy coming from me :smile: but I went through more than 10 brushes before I found the one for me. Everyone's perfect brush is out there, trust me!

[Cuttingboard]

I think that you guys that are having trouble should keep at it. Give it a few more weeks, or a month or two. Re-read all the B&B stickies, and re-watch all the Mantic videos. I really hope you guys can get to a point where this brush performs exactly how you want it to.

However, while these are great brushes, they can't be the perfect brush for every person. Give it time, but definitely don't try to force yourself to use something that doesn't give you the results you want. I know this is heresy coming from me :smile: but I went through more than 10 brushes before I found the one for me. Everyone's perfect brush is out there, trust me!

Yeah, for $135 I going to keep at it!! It makes good lather, not great lather and I'll work on technique until I get to know my brush. The brush and I may need to have a talk!:biggrin:

[biomesh]

Here is a suggestion for those having issues:

Load the brush up very well with a slightly damp brush. Stop when the tips look well loaded. Add a few drops of water (teaspoon to a tablespoon) to the brush (using a bowl or scuttle, etc) just to incorporate the water, no need to build lather. Start to build load the brush again. Stop when the brush is well loaded. You can then add a bit more water or just start to (face) lather, or go for another round of adding a bit of water and loading the brush.

With the dense brushes it can take a while to get the lather to build throughout the knot. By loading the brush then adding a bit of water you are breaking the lather down a bit and spreading it through the knot.

I use this method for loading soaps with all of my dense brushes. (Shavemac D01, Rooney Heritage, Simpson Chubby, etc) and I never have problems running out of lather for four passes. (even with a 19mm D01 or a chubby 1).

[Jim]

Several members have had some trouble with their new brushes in this thread with developing enough lather to do 3-4 passes. Almost without fail this symptom is caused by inadequate loading of the brush. This is very common when switching from a entry level brush to a dense higher end one.
http://www.badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=7552

This can take quite a bit of time so don't rush it.

The brush pictured is a custom shavemac.

Hope this helps.

[Jim]

Here is a suggestion for those having issues:

Load the brush up very well with a slightly damp brush. Stop when the tips look well loaded. Add a few drops of water (teaspoon to a tablespoon) to the brush (using a bowl or scuttle, etc) just to incorporate the water, no need to build lather. Start to build load the brush again. Stop when the brush is well loaded. You can then add a bit more water or just start to (face) lather, or go for another round of adding a bit of water and loading the brush.

With the dense brushes it can take a while to get the lather to build throughout the knot. By loading the brush then adding a bit of water you are breaking the lather down a bit and spreading it through the knot.

I use this method for loading soaps with all of my dense brushes. (Shavemac D01, Rooney Heritage, Simpson Chubby, etc) and I never have problems running out of lather for four passes. (even with a 19mm D01 or a chubby 1).

Robert well said! (by a minute...:lol:)

[Cuttingboard]

I'm just going to have to switch to bowl lathering if I want to have the kind of lather that I expect.

[pj_rage]

I might be making the lather "too thick" on my face, sure, but that's the way I like it and the Rooney supports that without a problem. Instead of bowl-lathering with the Shavemac today as I thought I was going to, it struck me to use the Rooney again to make sure I'm not remembering it differently than it actually is. And I'm definitely not. It made absolutely perfect lather and lasted for my 3 passes and I know for a fact I could have gotten a fourth out and I wouldn't be surprised if I eeked out a 5th and 6th. And this is dense, thick, perfect lather for each pass. The same soap that the Shavemac performed poorly on two days ago. It was a new soap (scent) to me, so I thought maybe it could be the soap, but it turns out it's not. The Rooney performed markedly better than the Shavemac has been performing.

Even though the Rooney has a 1mm larger knot at 22mm (theoretical, not measured), between it's 42mm loft (measured) vs the Shavemac's 50mm loft (measured) and the fan shape vs the bulb, the Rooney seems much much smaller. It literally seems like it's 25% smaller or more. When loading a mama bear soap for example, the Shavemac can't fit it's whole head in the container, but the Rooney fits with room to spare. The Rooney also loads up soap much faster and easier. I attribute this to it's shorter loft with very firm backbone, and maybe the main factor - the fan shape.

What I'm thinking is happening with the Shavemac, is that it is so much bigger (bristle volume), that it actually needs more total soap than the Rooney does for the same result, but in reality it's getting about the same amount. I'm not sure yet if I could get it to pick up any more though unless I find some new ways to get creative with loading. I've been swirling, twirling, plunging, and generally attacking the soap with the Shavemac to load her up, and I've been satisfied when I finish loading, but as I've mentioned it never seems to work out well for me beyond the first and second passes.

Basically, when I use the Shavemac, I think the soap to bristle volume ratio is way lower than with the Rooney. I think this is the key. I need to spend extra time loading up the Shavemac, I think. Even more than I have been. My problem here I think is with the bulb shape. What I've found so far with the bulb (or maybe it's just the Shavemac knot, I don't know) is that if I squeeze and dry the brush out as much as the Rooney so that it's about as dry as you can get it, it hardly will load anything, it just won't pick up soap effectively. So I do a shake or two less, leave just a little more water than the Rooney in there and I've found that it will then pick up soap much better. But there is a limit to how much soap I can get it to pick up, because after 25-30 seconds of working the puck, it's really just starting to make a proto-lather in the soap container and isn't really picking up much more (if any) new soap. I'll find a way though. Now that I have a plan of attack and a theory for what's going on, I think I might be able to fast-track a solution one way or another.

EDIT: Missed some posts while I was typing. I will try to load, add water, and load more, thanks for the tip. I suspect that this will only result in the brush building a more aggressive proto-lather on the puck, but I'm definitely willing to try it, because even if it does that, it's not the worst thing, as long as it's also picking up new soap. I just scoop up the proto-lather and smear it on my face before I start to face lather anyway, so it's not like it's wasted or anything. I'm kind of excited to try this out, I never would have thought of it!

[millertime150]

Here is a suggestion for those having issues:

Load the brush up very well with a slightly damp brush. Stop when the tips look well loaded. Add a few drops of water (teaspoon to a tablespoon) to the brush (using a bowl or scuttle, etc) just to incorporate the water, no need to build lather. Start to build load the brush again. Stop when the brush is well loaded. You can then add a bit more water or just start to (face) lather, or go for another round of adding a bit of water and loading the brush.

With the dense brushes it can take a while to get the lather to build throughout the knot. By loading the brush then adding a bit of water you are breaking the lather down a bit and spreading it through the knot.

I use this method for loading soaps with all of my dense brushes. (Shavemac D01, Rooney Heritage, Simpson Chubby, etc) and I never have problems running out of lather for four passes. (even with a 19mm D01 or a chubby 1).

Sounds good. I will give it a go.

I figured that the since C&E BBB hair is rougher while the D01 is denser and firmer that those characteristics should even out and they should be about equal in ease of loading. I guess the soft tips of the D01 hurt it a bit more than I thought it would to load soap and the density requires more loading time also.

[biomesh]

You are looking for equilibrium. The soap is dry and the brush starts off damp/wet. During the loading process the soap will incorporate the moisture and if you don't add some moisture during the lather building process the lather either won't form or will be dry and dissipate. In order for the brush to maintain a good lather through the shave you must have sufficient soap and water to keep the lather in a usable state. Many times, especially if you use a scuttle, you will need to add just a few drops of water after the second or third pass to re-activate the lather back to optimal condition.

[Dandaman]

I might be making the lather "too thick" on my face, sure, but that's the way I like it and the Rooney supports that without a problem. Instead of bowl-lathering with the Shavemac today as I thought I was going to, it struck me to use the Rooney again to make sure I'm not remembering it differently than it actually is. And I'm definitely not. It made absolutely perfect lather and lasted for my 3 passes and I know for a fact I could have gotten a fourth out and I wouldn't be surprised if I eeked out a 5th and 6th. And this is dense, thick, perfect lather for each pass. The same soap that the Shavemac performed poorly on two days ago. It was a new soap (scent) to me, so I thought maybe it could be the soap, but it turns out it's not. The Rooney performed markedly better than the Shavemac has been performing.

Even though the Rooney has a 1mm larger knot at 22mm (theoretical, not measured), between it's 42mm loft (measured) vs the Shavemac's 50mm loft (measured) and the fan shape vs the bulb, the Rooney seems much much smaller. It literally seems like it's 25% smaller or more. When loading a mama bear soap for example, the Shavemac can't fit it's whole head in the container, but the Rooney fits with room to spare. The Rooney also loads up soap much faster and easier. I attribute this to it's shorter loft with very firm backbone, and maybe the main factor - the fan shape.

What I'm thinking is happening with the Shavemac, is that it is so much bigger (bristle volume), that it actually needs more total soap than the Rooney does for the same result, but in reality it's getting about the same amount. I'm not sure yet if I could get it to pick up any more though unless I find some new ways to get creative with loading. I've been swirling, twirling, plunging, and generally attacking the soap with the Shavemac to load her up, and I've been satisfied when I finish loading, but as I've mentioned it never seems to work out well for me beyond the first and second passes.

Basically, when I use the Shavemac, I think the soap to bristle volume ratio is way lower than with the Rooney. I think this is the key. I need to spend extra time loading up the Shavemac, I think. Even more than I have been. My problem here I think is with the bulb shape. What I've found so far with the bulb (or maybe it's just the Shavemac knot, I don't know) is that if I squeeze and dry the brush out as much as the Rooney so that it's about as dry as you can get it, it hardly will load anything, it just won't pick up soap effectively. So I do a shake or two less, leave just a little more water than the Rooney in there and I've found that it will then pick up soap much better. But there is a limit to how much soap I can get it to pick up, because after 25-30 seconds of working the puck, it's really just starting to make a proto-lather in the soap container and isn't really picking up much more (if any) new soap. I'll find a way though. Now that I have a plan of attack and a theory for what's going on, I think I might be able to fast-track a solution one way or another.

EDIT: Missed some posts while I was typing. I will try to load, add water, and load more, thanks for the tip. I suspect that this will only result in the brush building a more aggressive proto-lather on the puck, but I'm definitely willing to try it, because even if it does that, it's not the worst thing, as long as it's also picking up new soap. I just scoop up the proto-lather and smear it on my face before I start to face lather anyway, so it's not like it's wasted or anything. I'm kind of excited to try this out, I never would have thought of it!
I read your message and it's times like this I think there must be a Higher Power and He delights in tormenting us. I have exactly the same problem - in reverse. I've been using a bulb-shaped Shavemac SB1-173 (21 mm knot) and having a pretty great experience, other than a bit of a shedding thing. Around two weeks ago I added a Rooney Heritage 1/1 fan-shaped brush. I can't get this thing to make enough lather for two passes. It doesn't want to load, even with a pre-softened puck. When I try harder to load, it just wants to lather on the puck. And what little lather it makes, it wants to hog. As best I can tell, the commonality is we both went to a high-density brush. Beyond that, I don't know. It doesn't seem to be improving with use, so far. I bought it thinking I could really have a good soap-based, face-lathering option. And to this point, it's been three steps backwards. I even tried some distilled water thinking it would be a softer water and might help - but, alas, it did not. After about four months into my wetshaving experience, the truest thing I've learned is.....................
YMMV !!

[rgjr]

I have no issues with my D01.

I make sure that brush is very damp and I don't skimp out on the cream. I face lather and have enough for 4 passes with a lot still left over. I am using KMF and use 2 pumps of the stuff.

I don't think that I will buy another brush for a long time, unless a good deal comes along.

[millertime150]

I tried loading then adding 1tsp-1T of water and loading again. My lather on all passes are subpar. I am not going to give up though.

How about the pressure I use?
On a scale of 1-10 (1 being the lightest and 10 being the hardest)I usually use about 6 to load and about a 4-5 to lather. i have tried to lather with more pressure maybe about a 7-8. I notived that since I am lathering not with the tips anymore and the lower hair is touching my face that it isn't as soft. I do think that it helps to build a better lather BUT I am afraid of being to rough on my brush. Also I like the soft tips :biggrin:

[pj_rage]

I tried loading then adding 1tsp-1T of water and loading again. My lather on all passes are subpar. I am not going to give up though.

How about the pressure I use?
On a scale of 1-10 (1 being the lightest and 10 being the hardest)I usually use about 6 to load and about a 4-5 to lather. i have tried to lather with more pressure maybe about a 7-8. I notived that since I am lathering not with the tips anymore and the lower hair is touching my face that it isn't as soft. I do think that it helps to build a better lather BUT I am afraid of being to rough on my brush. Also I like the soft tips :biggrin:Instead of trying the adding 1stp to 1tbsp method today, I tried something else I was thinking about. I dried the brush even more again. More than ever. I basically tried my hardest to get the brush as dry as I could. I used my normal squeeze, and then instead of 3-4 vigorous shakes, I did 8-10. Then I went to loading and loaded for what seemed like forever. Swirling, twirling, plunging, twisting, rocking, you name it and my brush did it. The first couple times I had tried loading with the shavemac so dry, it reallly didn't want to load very well, but today it loaded some thick thick heavy duty soap. I loaded for at least a full 60 seconds of this vigorous action. Varying between a 6 and 8 on the pressure scale. When I was done, the bristles were noticeably heavier. Heavy enough that I actually started thinking about how fast I would go through my soap if I kept doing it, lol. I remember thinking that it was so heavy that I could probably pretty easily find it's weight and divide it into the weight of soap in the container, and I figured the number would be surprisingly low.

Anyway, this shave was a marked improvement over my past latherings with it. The first pass lathered up just fine, the second was alright, and the third was better than it ever has been, in fact, it was a great third pass lather for any brush. I did have to refresh the tips with water and really work it up to a good lather again, but that's OK - normal for me even with the Rooney. I'm sure I could have gotten a fourth pass, and MAYBE a 5th, but I'm not sure.

In the end, was all of this loading too much? Did I have too much soap? Not in my opinion. Maybe a little too much, but it was definitely closer to the "right amount" than I've been yet. This brush just needs more soap than I'm used to in order to provide the same lather I'm used to.

At any rate, I think I'm closing in on just how to use this brush. I think my problem with it is that it needs even more soap than I'm used to, but loads even slower than I'm used to, so it's like a double whammy trying to nail down the proper amounts.

Oh and FWIW I normally use about a 4 on the pressure scale for lathering up. If I'm really building some lather aggressively, I might move to a 6 for a bit, but not for long.

[biomesh]

You don't have to use much pressure or abuse you brush to get it loaded. Let the tips do most of the work and be sure to take enough time loading the brush. If you only take 30 seconds, double it to 1 min or more.

Think of it like using a broom... do you have to mash a broom on the floor to get it to work properly?.. no. A little pressure and consistent motion will work.

Also for those having problems... how do you apply lather to you face? Do you use only scrubbing motions or painting motions?

If you use mostly scrubbing motions with a dense brush, you will get sub par lather most of the time. Use a combination of scrubbing and painting motions to get a good lather. The dense brushes have a good face feel, but lack in flow through. Normally less dense knots will have better flow through and will provide a good lather using a scrubbing motion only. With dense knots you have to alter your methods a bit and pull the lather out by using the painting motions.

[millertime150]

You don't have to use much pressure or abuse you brush to get it loaded. Let the tips do most of the work and be sure to take enough time loading the brush. If you only take 30 seconds, double it to 1 min or more.

Think of it like using a broom... do you have to mash a broom on the floor to get it to work properly?.. no. A little pressure and consistent motion will work.

Also for those having problems... how do you apply lather to you face? Do you use only scrubbing motions or painting motions?

If you use mostly scrubbing motions with a dense brush, you will get sub par lather most of the time. Use a combination of scrubbing and painting motions to get a good lather. The dense brushes have a good face feel, but lack in flow through. Normally less dense knots will have better flow through and will provide a good lather using a scrubbing motion only. With dense knots you have to alter your methods a bit and pull the lather out by using the painting motions.

I do everything on scales :smile: So on a scale of 1-10 (1 being the lightest) how much pressure do you use loading and how much do you use lathering.

[biomesh]

The bristles never splay much (or at all) so at most a 3-4. For those who really mash a brush into soap to get a good lather, there is something wrong or missing. You can really tear up a brush this way, especially if you only have one brush and do this every day.

If you like to mash your brush, use a boar since they are cheap.

[millertime150]

I think I found a technic that helps me lather. I always load my brush for over 1 minute usually close to 2 minutes with about a 3 pressure on a 1-10 scale. I didn't change that. I also dip my tips in hot water between passes which I have always done. My trick is to apply more pressure once the tips have been dipped. Maybe about a 4-5/10. Just long enough to release the lather and then I drop down to my normal lather pressure of 2-3/10.