First shave

[sirion]

Finally got a chance to play with my new toys, and it's clear I have a ways to go.

I kind of expected to give myself razor burn while figuring out how these sorts of razors work, and I did. (Goal for first time was something like: Try everything, learn from stupid mistakes)

Questions for next time:

1. From my reading, it seems that the least irritating shave involves 1-2 quick passes used for reducing the beard and one slow finishing pass for bringing the stubble down to the skin. In my reducing passes, I didn't really notice much hair getting cut, and after expanding the 1-2 passes to more like 4-5 passes, I managed to irritate my skin (surprise!). Also, is it vital to avoid repeating an area without adding some lather? I noticed that I would shave an inch, notice that all I've really accomplished is that I've wiped away the lather, and then I'd shave that inch again without reapplying. Mistake?

2. Any hints on that finishing pass? I'm expecting that to take at least a few weeks to learn, but my first attempt has left me a bit raw and still stubbly.

3. Regarding method shaving, many posts by experienced shavers that try it seem to suggest that it is a fast way to learn all the stuff they've learned over the years. How much does it depend upon using method shaving products?

4. Should I give my skin a break for a few days before trying this again?

Thanks all!

[roughrider]

Be sure not to apply pressure. Also check the angle of the blade on your various passes and figure out what works best for your face. There is a problem if you are passing an area and not cutting much hair. I'm betting it has to do with the angle of the blade. Take your time and go slow.

[Nick]

Well, RR said everything I was going to, so I'll just restate what he said, only differently...

1. On an average day, I only do two passes. On occasion, I'll need to touch up the jaw line. If I were you, I'd worry more about the technique, deliberate, meaningful strokes, not worrying about slow or quick passes. What matters is angle, and like RR said, do not apply pressure. That DE blade should be slicing right through that stubble with zero pressure applied. I think you've probably got your angle off, so you're not cutting much, and are getting aggrivated, and then going back to that area with no lather, and starting to push down some, causing irritation.

Are you stretching your skin nice and taught?

4. You could certainly give it a day off if you feel it needs it.

-Nick

[enlightenment]

i'm just getting started into this world too. Still waiting to receive my razor. I went for the Vision :). I too would like to know what you did wrong; atleast to learn from your mistakes :). From what i've been reading here, it sounds like the angle as mentioned above. Are you holding the razor near perpendicular to the shaving surface?

[rtaylor61]

Sirion,

When I first started, I was getting good shaves, but I always had a bit of irritation on my lower neck. What I had to learn was the growth pattern of my beard. My first pass is always with the grain. What I didn't originally realize is that my beard below the jawline grows upward. Once I realized that half of my first pass was against the grain, the problem was solved. So, my first pass is downward to the jawline, AND upwards from the lower neck to the jawline. Make sense? Before you begin your prep, rub your hands up and down over your beard. If it feels somewhat smooth, then you are going with the grain, but once you feel more drag, you are now going against.

Good luck, and keep asking questions!

Randy

[guenron]

sirion,
You haven't told us what and how you are shaving, just the results. Now I can sit here and launch into a long message on all the things that you should do and how you should do them, but why don't you first relate your practices and then we all can try and assist.
First, organize your shave into three areas:

Pre - Usually called Prep
During
Post
Note that no one area is more important than any other.
This way we can avoid confusion.

[AACJ]

Well, I shave in the shower. I usually let hot water run down my face prior to starting my shave, then after I have finished the shower part, I start mixing my shave cream, but I leave the water on thinking that the steam is helping to keep my whiskers moistened.

Just before I put the newly whipped shave cream on my face, I turn off the water. First, I like the sound of the blade cutting down my whiskers and second, I don't like to shave when it is cold (like it is in front of the sink) as I feel it creates goose bumps and when the razor scrapes over them, that is, in my opinion, razor burn. Staying in the hot shower eliminates these bumps and my razor burn, or lack there of.

And keep in mind, all of this is my opinon and reasons for shaving in the shower, some you may or may not agree with me, that's fine, but I am getting the best shaves of my life this way and do not intend to stop.

I do it for the following reasons:

1) I do not have ANY irritation, although I do occasionally get a nick or two (only when I use a Feather DE blade which is the sharpest around), but I do not consider it irritation.

2) When/if I do get a nick, the water from the shower helps clot the blood and when I am done with the shower/shave, I have no need for a stick to stop the bleed.

3) When I think of the term "wetshaving," that is exactly what I am performing, a wet shave while in the shower, the hot water helps create steam which helps to keep my face hydrated and my whiskers soft.

Try it, you might like it.

That invitation goes to anyone else that shaves in front of the sink as well. And if you do, let me know what you think.

Sorry for the discertaion.

[Scotto]

I am tempted to jump in with advice, but like Ron, I think some more detail of your set up would help a lot.

If you are new at this, I would propose sticking with one N-S pass for a few days to get your face used to it. It won't be the closest shave, but it will help you acclimate and learn good technique.

[DoubleE]

I wear contacts, am blind as a bat without them, and would have to shave by feel trying to do it in the shower. Therefore, I am relegated to the sink.

I remember my first comple of shaves with a double edge and my face burned most of the day. I had read all the posts about having the razor handle perpendicular to your face, just lower the handle until you can feel the blade, and no pressure. Still pretty much irritated for the first few shaves. I believe your face does have to adjust to this new shaving method. I would stay with only one or two passes for now.

I now do 4 or 5 passes, 2 against the grain with no irritiation (most of the time). Has my technique improved, absolutely, but my guess is just about any newbie is going to experience what sirion is experiencing even with a decent technique.

Like Ron mentioned, it would help to know about your routine.

Hang in there, the shave will get much better. And, the RAD, SCAD, and ever other AD gets worse!!

[sirion]

Thanks for all the advice so far!

1. Pre: I did the hot-towel thing, but that's a one-time only event to try out my razor; I'll be shaving during showers most of the time (I have a mirror in there). As for this time, hot towels on the face for 3 mins, then filled a mug full of hot hot water, let the brush soak, took it out, shook it, picked up some Taylor's, and went to town in a bowl. Wiped the lather auf das Gesicht, and started shaving.

2. During: Held the blade parallel to the floor, started moving it slowly N-S so I'd know when it would catch, then slowly increasing the angle until I felt the razor. I'm holding it mostly by the end, and trying as hard as possible to let the weight of the razor head do the shaving. After that didn't seem to cut much hair, I believe I increased the angle somewhat, and kinda scraped away for an inch at a time, 2-3 passes for each patch of skin. owie.

3. Post: Cold water splash, patted dry, rubbed on some Taylor's classic balm, posted here.

Thanks!

(PS: DoubleE: "AD"? :) )

[Scotto]

Sirion,

Thanks for the additional information. I presume you mean you are starting out with the razor handle parallel to the floor and then lowering it until you can cut whiskers? That is the correct way.

Keep on holding the razor by the end and take short strokes. Don't go over an area after you have removed the lather - that just causes more irritation. After one pass, you will likely have significant stubble left. Remember, this isn't a Mach 3 which is going to remove everything at once. After the first pass without going over areas you have shaved already, rinse your face with water and lather up again. Do another N-S pass, or try an across the grain pass (ear to chin). Same story - light pressure, short strokes, don't go over an area after you have shaved it.

Try it like this for a few days to see how your face adapts. Once you are used to it, you can try additional passes, against the grain, more blade exposure, etc. Keep it simple at first, though, and give it some time before you play around.

[guenron]

Sirion,

Thanks for the additional information. I presume you mean you are starting out with the razor handle parallel to the floor and then lowering it until you can cut whiskers? That is the correct way.

Keep on holding the razor by the end and take short strokes. Don't go over an area after you have removed the lather - that just causes more irritation. After one pass, you will likely have significant stubble left. Remember, this isn't a Mach 3 which is going to remove everything at once. After the first pass without going over areas you have shaved already, rinse your face with water and lather up again. Do another N-S pass, or try an across the grain pass (ear to chin). Same story - light pressure, short strokes, don't go over an area after you have shaved it.

Try it like this for a few days to see how your face adapts. Once you are used to it, you can try additional passes, against the grain, more blade exposure, etc. Keep it simple at first, though, and give it some time before you play around.
Sirion,
Scotto's advice is right on! THe areas I have highlighted in red I would like to further clarify.
For the rinse between lathering (passes), ensure that you leave your face wet, and use warm (hot, but not up to steaming) water.
For the cross grain cut, think of the swaths you shave as one side of the letter V. You start at the whisker line up by your ear and do this angled cut down toward your chin. Finish the cheeks by paralleling this swath with others until you have completely shaved that cheek. At that point I lift the skin on that cheek and pass the razor horizontally from the outside toward the chin getting the whiskers that are normally under the jawbone, but have now been brought above for shearing. By the way, that's not a bad stroke to perform even if you are doing a pure North to South.
Remember, GENTLE with NO PRESSURE! Let the razor do the work.
Please keep us advised of your progress!:cool:

[roughrider]

I don't think there's much left to say but give the above advice a try and report back with your progress. Good luck.

[DoubleE]

Sirion:

AD - acquisition disorder. Whether it's razor, RAD, shaving cream, SCAD, or another ad you like. I currently have a rather bad case of CAD, cologne....

You've gotten great advice here and the basics have certainly been covered. Time will likely take care of your problems. It's a shame most of us only get to hone our skills once a day. As your technique improves and your face becomes accustomed to the new shaving regimen, you'll should begin to get some gerat shaves soon.

Let the games begin!!

Jerry

[AACJ]

I wear contacts, am blind as a bat without them, and would have to shave by feel trying to do it in the shower. Therefore, I am relegated to the sink.



I am too, but I wear them in the shower, I just make sure to keep the water out of my eyes. But when I have, my contacts have never come out. They really stick to my eye.

[sirion]

Hmph. I'm definitely doing *something* wrong. I can't seem to get much hair cut.

Process for finding the the razor angle:

Start with handle parallel to floor
Dip handle while moving NS very slowly
When I hear anything, then try to hold that angle and keep going.

I can't seem to find a middle ground between these two positions (and this is after 45 minutes of mowing):
1. Round guard is on face, can't feel or hear any razor contact
2. Hairs are getting pulled out; razor angle is too steep.

After 30 minutes of trying to shave with and across the grain, I had a little more success shaving everything with the grain with my Mach 3, then trying to finish it with the progress, but that mostly minimized the hair-pulled-out sensation, probably because the hairs were too short to catch.

Any ideas? Thanks for the continued help!

[Scotto]

This is with a Merkur Progress? Which brand of blade? What setting on the razor?

[Coche_y_bondhu]

Sirion,

All good advice from the forum. Are you using the blade that came with the razor? I heard it is good practice to discard that blade and insert a fresh blade.

It may just be the blade. I used Merkurs when I started out, but early on I switched to Feather Super Platinums. Concensus is they are sharper, some say they are "wickedly" sharp. You can get them at www.classicshaving.com.

Perhaps a bit more lubrication is in order depending on your beard. You may want to try Pacific Shave Oil (PSO), at www.pacificshaving.com. I apply a few drops before each pass. Never any razor irritation.

Just suggestions.

But it is important to change only ONE thing at a time.

Like someone already mentioned, each pass takes off more hair. Most DE shavers do three passes. Study the lay of your beard: which way do the hairs grow.
I would stay with just one pass with the grain (which is not always N-S) for a couple of weeks, then progress to two with the grain passes for a couple of weeks, then on to a second pass across (not directly against) the grain, then maybe try the second pass against the grain. If you like the results at the end of two passes, then there is no need to do three. The third pass, ususally called T&C (touch n' cut), is done at any angle necessary to touch up the errant patches of stubble left. For some gents, no matter what angle or how many passes, some areas of the beard will never get smooth. I have two, one under each ear.

Again, just suggestions. Take it slow. You will know when you find your epithany or "groove"!

Cheers,
Richard
North Texas

[sirion]

Merkur Progress, Setting of 2.5, I tried bumping it up to 3.5 to see if it would do anything more, but didn't notice much change in how much hair was getting cut. Using a new Merkur Platinum blade

[Scotto]

Very strange. It would be extremely unusual to have an issue with a Merkur blade. Your technique sounds fine. It doesn't make sense that you are not cutting hair. Try shaving a small patch of hair on your arm using the same angle and report back- it should shave very easily.

So this is a fresh Merkur blade from a new pack, inserted into the Progress, tightened down all the way, and then loosened to 2.5?

We'll figure this out - stay positive.:wink:

[DoubleE]

Sirion:
Just to double check, you do have the two marks aligned on the head before tightening?

Jerry

[sirion]

Yeah, the triangle on the base of the razor is lined up with the notch on the curved top plate. I remember seeing a picture about some specific direction the razor blade itself is supposed to be placed in the Progress, but I can't seem to find it, nor can I figure out how that would make a difference.

A clue to this puzzle:
Using Scotto's clue, I tried shaving some hair off of my arm, and I couldn't do it with the way my razor was set up. I could only do it when I readjusted the progress as follows:

Tightened progress all the way down. This ended up on a 1.
Then, instead of loosening two or three notches up to a 2.5 or 3.5, I went a whole circle around, and set it to the next 2.5. At this point, I could cut some hair off of my arm. Thoughts?

[nteeman]

Yeah, the triangle on the base of the razor is lined up with the notch on the curved top plate. I remember seeing a picture about some specific direction the razor blade itself is supposed to be placed in the Progress, but I can't seem to find it, nor can I figure out how that would make a difference.

A clue to this puzzle:
Using Scotto's clue, I tried shaving some hair off of my arm, and I couldn't do it with the way my razor was set up. I could only do it when I readjusted the progress as follows:

Tightened progress all the way down. This ended up on a 1.
Then, instead of loosening two or three notches up to a 2.5 or 3.5, I went a whole circle around, and set it to the next 2.5. At this point, I could cut some hair off of my arm. Thoughts?

I don't know what to tell you other than something is seriously wrong. I have a Progress and once you tighten it down to 1 and then back it to a mid setting 3 or 4 there should be pleanty of blade exposure. Either your Progress is defective or you are doing something very wrong.

[Scotto]

I got out my Progress last night, tightened it as much as I could, and had no problem shaving some hair on my arm. Very odd. When you look at the razor from the side, what does the blade exposure look like relative to the safety bar? I tried to get some pictures of mine for you to compare, but couldn't get good ones. I'll try again later. Just to be really sure, you might want to pop a new blade in and try again just to rule that out.

[sirion]

Well that's disheartening; I thought I might have figured out the problem and solution. Here are some pics of my razor head. Excuse the mess; I havent figured out how to clean it (water doesnt seem to do the trick):


Fully tightened (1):
http://www.gabrielwyner.com/shaving/1_right.jpg
http://www.gabrielwyner.com/shaving/1_left.jpg

Here's my razor head, loosened to a..erm..7.5?
http://www.gabrielwyner.com/shaving/7_left.jpg

[sirion]

Stuck a new blade in, can't see any difference, but I can cut hair at fully closed. Maybe I'm going crazy. Time for shave 3.

[rtaylor61]

Sirion,

I don't use the Progress, so I can't help with figuring out the shaving problem, but I do have a suggestion on the cleaning situation. I change my blade once a week. While I have my Classic HD disassembled, I use an old toothbrush and a dab of Soft Scrub with Bleach, then lightly scrub down the entire razor.

Best of luck!

Randy

[sirion]

Well that was the closest shave I've ever had. Hurray!
Setting of 3.5, a couple of nicks, a little burn, and a really, really close shave.

Thanks for all of the help. I wish I knew better what went wrong during the first 2 shaves, so that someone might be helped with a similar problem in the future. Of note, Scotto's 'shave some armhair' idea was a pretty good diagnostic tool.

[roughrider]

That's very good to hear.

[Nick]

Glad to hear sirion!

Now stop rubbing your face in amazement. (No, I don't have a hidden camera on you). :wink:

-Nick

[roughrider]

Now stop rubbing your face in amazement.
-Nick


Nonsense, we all do it after a great shave. :smile:

[AFDavis11]

Glad things are working for you...I'm really baffled by this post...and I won't even comment on how I must be misunderstanding. I don't have time to read the whole thing right now but let me just say this:

I personally do not recommend using any DE without cream on your face....for any pass. I do this with a straight but never a DE...you mention doing this and you mention irritation. I must apoligize as I must have missed something (because no one else mentioned it) but in my opinion thats the problem...sorry in advance if thats not what you meant in your first post

[Scotto]

Hoo-ray! Now go back to the beginning of the post and re-read all the other great advice. :biggrin:

[guenron]

Hi Gabe,
After looking at the pics I can guess what may have happened the first time or two. If and when it appears that the razor isn't shaving, very carefully holding the razor to ensure that if doesn't slip and slice you, squeeze the top of the head down toward the base of the head twixt thumb and forefinger once or twice, as though you were squeezing a sponge or compressing a spring and allowing it to return. The idea is to ensure that the head seeks its proper setting and isn't binding on soap scum, etc. Sometimes these razors tend to be a bit stiff when new or loaded with soap scum.

[Scotto]

Looking more closely at your pictures, something looks odd, though it may just be the picture. If you look at the blade thickness, it seems much thicker in the middle than the edge. Look in particular at your second picture - something doesn't seem quite right, almost like there is something else in there with the razor blade. Then again, I may be imagining things. I'm glad it is shaving now, though.

I use a toothbrush and some Bartenders Friend (abrasive cleaner I use in my kitchen) to clean up the razors every now and then.

[AFDavis11]

OK Scotto,

I found it...:smile:

[guenron]

Looking more closely at your pictures, something looks odd, though it may just be the picture. If you look at the blade thickness, it seems much thicker in the middle than the edge. Look in particular at your second picture - something doesn't seem quite right, almost like there is something else in there with the razor blade. Then again, I may be imagining things. I'm glad it is shaving now, though.

I use a toothbrush and some Bartenders Friend (abrasive cleaner I use in my kitchen) to clean up the razors every now and then.
Hey Scotto,
Those are the tabs in the center of the blade. They point upward as the blade is flexed into a curve by the razor head.:a28:

[mark the shoeshine boy]

here is a picture of my first shave....

This is my Vision set on 9 with a Feather blade.....

I am doing better now....I had to learn just like you.....

mark the shoeshine boy