What Handgun to Buy ? Deacon.........

[Trudo1]

This is a tough one, I know !!

Year's ago I owned a 12 ga. Mossburg and sold it a while ago. Now I am in the market for a handgun. I am not a complete novice but definitely not "Billy the Kid" I have been to the range maybe half a dozen times, renting there handgun's. Desert trips with the Mossburg and thats it, never owned my own handgun.

Physical Stats: 6'0 tall, 200 lbs.....39 years old.

The use of this firearm will be for: Range Practice, Shooting target's on camping trips, self defense.Buying one before this country out laws them.
At the range I have fired, S&W.357, Revolver
Glock 30, 45 cal. semi auto
Sig 40 cal. (don't know the model #)semi auto
44 Magnum "Dirty Harry" Revolver
I have heard the "whatever feels right" thing before, but maybe I will get some different opinions here.
Also we have an "8 year old boy" who has been to the range, he shot the .357 !!!! Home gun security is a.......important.

What are the tried and true, super-reliable, comfortable, accurate, brands model #'s and calibers guy's prefer for an all around handgun's !!!
A big one is semi-auto or revolver. I know there are some dyed in the wool revolver fans out there, tell me why. The semi autos are well....cool, but something about revolver's intrigue me. All the guns at the range where beaters.......Price is relevant, just not outrageous.

I guess with the little guy.... I can't just leave it in my bedside drawer where I would like it ??? If it is locked in fort knox how do you access it when you really need it ???

Any opinions...bring em on.
Thanx Guy's

[liege]

From what I understand revolvers are more reliable; less likely to jam than a semi. I am looking also, and for much of the same reasons.

[DeaconKC]

Okay, the revolver vs. auto debate will always continue until there is only one shooter left! Tha advantages of a revolver are variety of size of grips for many shooters, simplicity of operation, reliability [very rarely will there be a mechanical malfunction with a wheel gun], and in a .38/,357 gun the huge variety of ammunition power levels to use. The advantage of an auto is magazine capacity.
Okay, you've got a kid in the house. First, get the Eddie Eagle Safety program from the NRA. Teach him safety and remove the mystery that makes the "forbidden item" so appealing. There are several good quick response safes available for under $100 that require a code to open. You and your wife can know this and grab the gun quickly if needed, but kids can't get in them. If I had kids in my home, this would be required.
Okay, next up, limit your choices, a good 4" .357 double action revolver or a 9mm or .40 caliber auto. The revolver can shoot powder puff loads in .38 Special all the way up to the 125 grain jacketed hollowpointsin .357 Magnum that are still the most effective handgun rounds ever. You can have a couple of speedloaders handy if you want to keep it unloaded too. Reliablity is great as if you get a bad round of ammo, just pulling the trigger brings a fresh round under the hammer and in use.
The 9mm or 40 autos are mild in recoil and have very good ammo available now for self defense. Magazine size in this caliber keeps most of these handguns usable by both men and women easily. The drawback to an auto is you have to know how to clear a jam if you get a bad round of ammo in the chamber.
makers to look for in revolvers are Smith and Wesson, Colt, Ruger, Charter Arms and Taurus. These all make excellent revolvers and if you find a good used one they are great values.
In autos, you will run into 2 really extreme groups there [the fans of the 1911 and the Glock] who think there are no other hadguns out there. Both are excellent guns, but there are other makers just as good or better. Sigs, HKs, Glocks, 1911s, Smith &Wesson, Taurus and Springfield Armory all make excellent autos. For the record I carry a Glock 40 on duty, and have a S&W .45 auto and a Kimber 1911 all ready for duty at my home and carry a Taurus .38 snubby off duty.
Try as many different guns as you can before putting down your cash for one. There are a lot of used police trade ins out there that are showing finish wear but are almost new inside.

[Not A Nice Person]

I have the Ruger GP100 .357 revolver (stainless, concealed carry mods) and love it. Accurate, dependable, fits my hand, built like a tank.

If I add a semiauto in the future, it'll be a Sig Sauer with Hogue grips. A friend has one, and like my Ruger, I just plain shoot well with it.

NANP™

[whodat]

The use of this firearm will be for: Range Practice, Shooting target's on camping trips, self defense.Buying one before this country out laws them.

I highly recommend the S&W .357 for the reasons you stated. One major reason is the .357 can also shoot .38spl which means your camping trip plinking will work out cheaper. Also, it's lighter than most of your other options (those listed anyway).

If you'd go for two, I'd suggest a .22 pistol like a buckmaster along with a larger caliber .45 automatic (I prefer one of the 1911 variants available out there).

The .357 is a well rounded wheel gun that won't let you down no matter how much you abuse it.

Have fun!

[Mr. Todd]

Badger & Blade & Bullets lol

[mparker762]

There are also 7 and 8 shot .357 magnum revolvers, which reduces the capacity argument a bit. One of the S&W 8-shot revolvers (model 627) is my bedside gun. I also love the Colt 1911 style semiautos, and the H&K squeeze-cocker models, but that S&W 627 is my most accurate handgun, even more accurate than my Wilson.

[Sticky]

Springfield "loaded" 1911 .45 A.C.P with an 18 pound spring
Taurus PT 1911 .45 A.C.P. with an 18 pound spring
Price wise: Bulgarian or East German Makarov 9x18
One reason I choose the .45 is because it has much less muzzle flash at night than most calibers, less likely to blind you in dim light. All Makarovs I've fired or owned are extremely reliable and acceptably accurate. The Springfield and Makarov can also be almost completely stripped to the last part with virtually no tools, as can the Glock.

For extended pistol practice I like the Ruger .22 bull barrels.

If I still had young ones around I would buy one of the small 1 or 2 gun push-button safes for fast access.

[Telecastick]

""If you'd go for two, I'd suggest a .22 pistol like a buckmaster along with a larger caliber .45 automatic (I prefer one of the 1911 variants available out there).""

This is the combo I would suggest. Start with the 22

[General Burnside]

Revolvers are somewhat more reliable than semiautos, but the odds of having a decent semi auto (non 22) jam on you are really small. Really really small. For just having fun shooting, semiautos are a little more fun that revolvers, especially single action ones.

Definitely a 9mm if you are going to be putting in some range time, but like a previous poster said, get a 22 pistol and then a gun for home defense. Unless you really get into shooting or start reloading your own ammo, .357 and even .38's are going to be more than you will be happy paying. 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper and you can get all kinds of pure copper, hollow point hex, etc. bullets which will destroy a person if you hit them in the otrso, or tear an arm or leg off if you jsu wing them. If ammo cost is not an issue, go with a .40 caliber, but your first pistol should be semi in my humble opinion.

I know the other gun enthusiasts are probably going to jump me for this, but you should get a Hi Point 9mm. You will get it for under 200 out the door, which will leave you with plenty of money to get a 22 for range use and camping shooting. Hi Points are ugly heavy, and not the most accurate, but they will easily serve you in a home defense situation.

My final opinion:

Get a high point 9mm and a 22 pistol, either a buckmaster or a sig mosquito.

GB

p.s Hi Deacon, I am Dick Dubloon on surplurifleforum.com. Nice to see there is another gun/cutthroat fan out there.

[Roman414]

If you want one gun for all purposes, hard to beat a double action .357 magnum or .38 special with four inch barrel. The only reason to go with the magnum is...why not? You can also shoot the .38's in it. I prefer the .38 load for home defense...the magnum fired indoors, at night, produces enough noise and muzzle blast to temporarily deafen and blind you. As well as increasing the chance of punching through the wall and plugging an innocent neighbor. Revolver over auto because there are no safeties to forget under stress, no magazine release to hit by accident under stress...you just point the wheelgun and squeeze the trigger.
The second part is tough. A home defense gun should be near at hand, loaded and ready to go. When you awaken to see someone climbing through your bedroom window it is not a time to have to manipulate locks or speed loaders. I don't have an answer for the kid-safety problem.

[senorsignor]

I'd compare the .357/.38 revolvers to Glocks and pick what you like best. I just bought a Glock 21 (full size .45 ACP) and I love it. 13 rounds of .45 ACP! much simpler (and for me that means "better") design than other semis i've shot/owned. I can field strip it in a matter of seconds with no tools. In my opinion, the Glock 21 has softer recoil than a similar model in .40 S&W and maybe even 9mm. One statistic that swayed my decision was that, on average in a stressful situation, a Cop hits his target 1/6 times. I plan on being worse. Good luck.

[stobes21]

I'd recommend a Glock 17 or 19. Inexpensive gun, cheapest range ammo out there in an acceptable self defense caliber (even cheaper than .38 special), accurate, easy to learn, and absolutely top notch in reliability. Plus, ammo capacity is 17 rounds for the Glock 17 and 15 rounds for the 19. Even the huge 8 shot revolvers can't claim that. Now, in a self defense scenario I wouldn't expect the ammo capacity to make a wit's difference, but at the range larger capacity means more shots between reloads. Plus, glock mags are cheap, so you can buy a half dozen or more and be able to shoot for a long time before having to reload. Final point: there are plenty of police trade ins of those two models that have been carried a lot but shot very little and can be had for cheap. And if a couple months or years down the line you want something else you should be able to sell it for damn near if not more than what you paid for it.

As for storage: look into one of the quick safes that either reads a finger print or takes a numeric code. You can keep the gun loaded and very fast to access without having to worry about curious hands. But as noted above, teach proper gun handling and respect and those hands won't be nearly as much a concern.

[Masterofsparks]

My wife and I both conceal carry and I personally carry a Glock 30 45 ACP and my wife carries a Glock 19 9mm. The Glock is extremly reliable and we have never had a issue with misfires.....
We probably run about 50 to 100 rounds a week at the range...some people bowl we like to shoot.
I pity the poor fool that breaks into our home! LOL

[petr]

you have emphasized the child issue, and I also understand this issue as I have small children (which is far different than theorizing about risks). sure, one plans to never ever have a child or untrained woman handle a weapon, but I assume that it will happen. one day. years from now. when you least expect it.

for that reason alone, I only have a 1911 platform. three points of safety and a stiff slide to actually chamber a round.

and also, I'll shoot you're eye out.

I could tell stories to convince you, but hey. read Jeff Cooper's books, don't take my word for it.

good luck.

[BillEllis]

There are a lot of good suggestions here on this thread. Personally, I would not recommend a handgun as a weapon of choice for home defense. Stray bullets can too easily find their way into your neighbor's house. My choice is 12 guage short barrel. Mossberg is good for that.

If you decide to get a pistol anyway, my pick for the home is a Glock 23. It is extremely reliable and accurate. It would be in your best interest to invest in a combat self-defense course with the pistol, no matter which one you decide on.

If you do decide on the pistol, another thing to consider is an easily accessible hidden storage area that is usually disguised as a painting or photograph. Trigger locks and safes that require codes to get in them don't help much if you wind up needing the gun in a hurry. Your boy is old enough to teach him to stay away from it.

Here are some ideas for safe storage
Fingerprint safe (http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Gear-Hide-A-Gun-Picture-Frame/dp/B0006I0DXK)
Wallclock (http://bljsselfdefense.com/wall-clock-with-hidden-safe-p478.html)
Picture Frame (http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Gear-Hide-A-Gun-Picture-Frame/dp/B0006I0DXK)
Another Picture Frame Safe (http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezstore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1804#a1)

[General Burnside]

A whole bunch of glockaholics around here. A glock 23 is going to run you about 500 bucks before taxes/fees. That's more than you want to pay for something that is going to sit in a drawer in your nightstand until you take it out to the range and shooting while camping (I get the impression you won't be doing much shooting, otherwise you'd already have a bunch of guns;). You can get a hi point 9mm for 150 or a 45 for 160. Sure they look like they've be rhino-lined, but the function just fine and you don't really have to clean them. The way to get a gun is to find a gun forum, preferably semi local to where you live, and buy a used one from someone on there. If you did that, you could get a HP 9mm for about a hundred bucks I bet. If you happen to live in Cali, try calguns.net, always some great deals on there, but they go quick.
I don't own a Hi Point, but I've shot them and they are fine guns in a utilitarian sort of way.

GB

[Shane27]

What about the Taurus Judge? A revolver that can shoot both .45 rounds and shotgun shells?

Anyone have any experience with this handgun? Strictly used for home protection...

[SILVERBACK]

as an Englishman i find this thread fascinating. "what gun to buy" :biggrin: my god, it sounds so casual (not that im trying to lord it over anyone) there was i thinking a "what razor to buy thread" was daring :lol: im a member of a few forums and i have never scene a thread that has been about buying a gun lol.maybe im just naive :blushing: but on a simple visual merit i would say glock.there just so business class looking.considering i have never even scene a real firearm you may want to take my reply with a huge pnch of salt though hehe.

the closest i have been to a weapon is having vibrate switched on my 360 pad whilst playing COD4.

[Roman414]

Years ago I had a conversion kit that let me swap my Colt 1911 back and forth between .45ACP and .22. You just swapped the slide, barrel, spring, and magazine. Took about a minute and no tools required. A setup like that comes pretty close to the one-gun-for-everything ideal. But for the casual shooter who isn't going to practice regularly I still recommend the revolver. Just on the basis of keeping things simple. Less room for error under stress.

[BillEllis]

I'm not familiar with the combo in a Taurus, but it's a pretty good wheel gun. And a 410 shotgun shell would be good within the confines of a house. The Thompson Center Contender used to have this combo, but California quickly put it on the "no no" list. The TCC was single shot so that's not a consideration anyway.

GB... do ya think maybe there's a reason for the $150 price tag on the HP? :wink:

What about the Taurus Judge? A revolver that can shoot both .45 rounds and shotgun shells?

Anyone have any experience with this handgun? Strictly used for home protection...

[Mordecai]

There are a lot of good suggestions here on this thread. Personally, I would not recommend a handgun as a weapon of choice for home defense. Stray bullets can too easily find their way into your neighbor's house. My choice is 12 guage short barrel. Mossberg is good for that.



+1 If you're getting a gun purely for home defense, shotgun all the way.



Otherwise, I love my Sig 229, it shoots like a dream. :biggrin:

[SRock]

This is always a great question. Search the forum and you will find other posts on this same subject. The best advice any of us can give you is don't buy model "A" or model "B" because someone on here recommends it. Treat a handgun purchase like a car purchase. If you can't arrange to "test drive" it, don't buy it. Find a range that rents guns and try a variety of sizes, calibers and autos vs. wheel guns (if you are interested in both). If anyone else in your household may need to rely on it, or shoot it recreationally you both (or all) need to shoot the guns and find a happy medium. I am a firearms instructor/gunsmith with over a decades experience. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.

[whodat]

What about the Taurus Judge? A revolver that can shoot both .45 rounds and shotgun shells?

Anyone have any experience with this handgun? Strictly used for home protection...

Not a bad firearm, but I'm going to nitpick.

First nitpick, OP is in California, the land of everything-fun-is-illegal. That firearm is illegal here.

Second nitpick is the Judge, like other .410/.45 combo guns, shoots .45 colt, not .45 ACP -- not a big deal if you don't mind the extra cost and pain in the butt with the ammo. Thinking in terms of easy availability, I'd steer clear of that one.

Oh, just to chime in again about the .357/.38 S&Ws -- you might one day decide you want a rifle of some kind to be able to reach out a little further. You can always get a marlin model 1894, which can shoot .357 or .38 -- it's a GREAT little lever action... smooth. like butter.

My suggestion of pistol:
ANY ONE OF S&W's .357/.38+P (like the model 620 pictured here)
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sw/smith_620.jpg
or
ANY ONE OF TAURUS's of the same caliber (like the model 627 pictured here)
http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/627SS4.jpg

AND

Marlin .357/.38 model 1894 carbine
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/images/ssi/41044.jpg

[dustin]

There are a lot of good suggestions here on this thread. Personally, I would not recommend a handgun as a weapon of choice for home defense. Stray bullets can too easily find their way into your neighbor's house. My choice is 12 guage short barrel. Mossberg is good for that.


This is not an issue if you're loading hollow points for home defense. You should never use full metal jacket ammo anywhere but the range. Though I agree a shotgun is also a great choice for home defense, I prefer the accessibility and mobility provided by a handgun. A decent, reliable shotgun is much cheaper than a quality handgun, however, and easily obtainable from the nearest Wal-mart without a wait in most states.

If you ever plan on carrying, something compact is the way to go - a compact auto or the .357/.38 are good choices. If you just want something for home defense/range, you can't go wrong with a 1911 variant. Their size and weight makes them poor choices for concealed carry(with the exception of very very large men), but for the same reasons they are some of the most accurate and reliable autos out there. I carry a Glock 19. They're a great value compared to many other similar composite weapons, easy to field strip and clean, reliable as hell and good shooters.

[riooso]

I have a GP100 Stainless and it is a solid piece and because of the safety bar design it is one of the safest handguns out there. There are fractal rounds available that really help with the errant round situation. I personally use the Remington Extreme Shock round and it is a very good accurate round and although it has some stopping power it will not go through a building like a regular round.


Take care,
R

[DS/B MCS]

Home Defense - Remington 870
Self Defense - Glock 19/26 or Springfield XD series

My summer CC is the G26 and during the winter I go with the XD45c
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/CUTiger3/Guns/XD45-1.jpg

[Unknownsoldier]

Revolvers are somewhat more reliable than semiautos, but the odds of having a decent semi auto (non 22) jam on you are really small. Really really small. For just having fun shooting, semiautos are a little more fun that revolvers, especially single action ones.

Definitely a 9mm if you are going to be putting in some range time, but like a previous poster said, get a 22 pistol and then a gun for home defense. Unless you really get into shooting or start reloading your own ammo, .357 and even .38's are going to be more than you will be happy paying. 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper and you can get all kinds of pure copper, hollow point hex, etc. bullets which will destroy a person if you hit them in the otrso, or tear an arm or leg off if you jsu wing them. If ammo cost is not an issue, go with a .40 caliber, but your first pistol should be semi in my humble opinion.

I know the other gun enthusiasts are probably going to jump me for this, but you should get a Hi Point 9mm. You will get it for under 200 out the door, which will leave you with plenty of money to get a 22 for range use and camping shooting. Hi Points are ugly heavy, and not the most accurate, but they will easily serve you in a home defense situation.

My final opinion:

Get a high point 9mm and a 22 pistol, either a buckmaster or a sig mosquito.

GB

p.s Hi Deacon, I am Dick Dubloon on surplurifleforum.com. Nice to see there is another gun/cutthroat fan out there.

Have to agree, accuracy is not something necessary in home/self defence, in most suburban homes (such as mine) the maximum distance you will need to fire is about 4-5 metres (so working on a similar theory postulated by the soviets during WW2), why would you need a gun capable of a tight grouping at 50 metres..... it's not necessary, plus the fact if the 'guy' is in your house and you empty a mag at him, then you'll either hit him with the amount of lead or the accuracy.... as also remember most houses are tight with walls, so he will be open to most barrages.

Personally for my home defence I'd use a pump action for maximum effect (S&A) and width of spray. Also on the ammo front, you can get resin filled rounds (such as those used by air marshals), which are in essence a mini shotgun round (except the pellets are only release upon it hitting the body, so the round hits and then the pellets are lossed (preferably into the torso)).

The swappable calibre 1911 sounds good to, and on the jamming front, this from what I've heard comes from naff ammo or a dirty gun, buy decent ammo, and keep your weapon clean and it should be dependable, also a semi is 99.999999% of the time easily cleared if jammed anyway.

Tom

[Redhook]

Dang Nobody even put up a S&W model 500 50 cal. It'll even stop an invading/ assualting suburban.

[stobes21]

Ah, I missed that the OP is from California. I believe Cali has a 10 round magazine limit, so that restricts greatly the advantages of some of the larger semi-autos (like the glocks I recommended).

Anyway, the issue of over penetration in a house has been brought up many times. In my not-so-humble opinion anything that is going to penetrate a bad guy far enough to reliably stop him is going to penetrate a lot of walls. Birdshot in a shotgun or gimmick rounds (like the glaser) in a handgun are not the solution. The solution is to use proven rounds (buckshot in shotguns and hollowpoints in handguns) and be sure of your target and what is behind it before you pull the trigger. If that means you have to change your position in a room before you shoot or even retreat to a different place in your house then so be it. Think about the layout of your house and where a bullet would go if it missed your target. You should be able to come up with certain "no go" shooting angles and locations. Know them now so you don't have to think about them in the middle of the night. Check out www.theboxoftruth.com for ballistic testing data, particularly how much various types of rounds penetrate walls.

[dustin]

Dang Nobody even put up a S&W model 500 50 cal. It'll even stop an invading/ assualting suburban.

I believe the general consensus it that a .50 cal magnum is a bit overkill. They're the midlife crisis red Corvette of handguns in my opinion. Like Desert Eagles, they're just a 'my-gun-is-bigger-than-your-gun' gun. .357s, 9mms and .40 cals with the proper load provide more than sufficient stopping power in a reasonably sized frame with minimum recoil and better accuracy.

[whodat]

This is not an issue if you're loading hollow points for home defense. You should never use full metal jacket ammo anywhere but the range.

Having first hand experience having to shoot JHP through dry-wall in the line of duty with my back-up .38spl (S&W 642), I can tell you that as soon as a JHP strikes dry-wall, the dry-wall packs into the hollow-point, creating basically a FMJ. I can prove it, one of those bullets is sitting on my desk right in front of me.

The idea that a JHP is safe in terms of over-penetration is a well-trounced myth. Glaser safety ammo or the like is supposed to be better. Or you can go for frangible ammunition which supposedly shatters when hitting dry-wall or something else that's hard. Plus it's hard to recover good ballistics evidence from frangibles -- not that it should matter! :lol:

A shotgun also penetrates residential dry-wall quite easily -- assuming the shot is 00 or more. The first couple bits of shot will break up the dry wall allowing the following bits of shot to pass through easily enough.

Believe it or not, the "safest" round inside a house is a .223/.556, unless shot straight through the drywall. Any kind of angle causes a tumbling in the round so great that it will be ineffective after passing through one or two layers.

I'm still a big fan of the .38spl -- it served me well enough.

[Trudo1]

Thanks to every one out there !!!!!!!

Great response.......Deacon your the man !!!!!

I might just buy a S&W .357
You guys are great.....B&B.....Awesome

[turkish]

If it's for home defense then I would recommend a revolver. Revolvers are less likely to jam and if you have a misfire you simply pull the trigger until it fires. Under a stressful situation a semiauto may be more difficult for someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with handguns. You may or may not have an external safety to deal with depending on what semiauto you get. Also clearing a jam in a semiauto may be more difficult to someone who hasn't had a lot of practice doing that. Then after you deicde what type of handgun to get, you'll need to choose what caliber. If it's for home defense you won't want something to powerful that could over penetrate a wall and possibly injure a family member or neighbor. All things to consider. Ultimately probably the easiest and cheapest weapon for home defense is a 12 gauge shotgun.

[DeaconKC]

Wow, lots of well-thought out responses here. You've seen an awful lot of good suggestions, take your time and try to shoot some of the guns listed before plunking down several hundred dollars. Be safe!

[whodat]

try to shoot some of the guns listed before plunking down several hundred dollars. Be safe!

+1

[BuddyJ]

A CZ-82 (http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/c/c-r-guns/p/cz-82-czech-9x18-makarov-military-pistol,-good-condition,-one-mag-c-r-/cPath/290/products_id/1435?SID) is inexpensive, accurate, and fun to shoot. It'd also be okay for home defense, etc.

9x18 Makarov is a decent caliber that's becoming more and more common at sporting goods stores.

[bonusmarple]

I am seriously looking at an HK 45. I owned a HK USP and sold it due to the ergos. Supposedly, the HK 45 has fixed that issue and all that is left is an uber-reliable 45 that fits the hand. They made a smart move in getting Mr. Vickers to contribute to the design. I am sure he was instrumental in getting them to toss out the stupid double-stack. Who cares if you have 2 extra rounds if you can't shoot the gun worth a darn?

Anyway, I would take a look.

[SlyGI]

I've fired many handguns in the past five years. At home, we have a Taurus .357, 5 shot revolver, and a S&W .38

We have a 2 year old and a six month old in the house, so we keep one gun locked up and up way high. The other gun is in a safe that can only be opened with a fingerprint or a code-- the code is set to lock out after three tries. Plus, we NEVER leave the kids unattended because we are safety nuts with our kids (and we have two dogs, greyhounds but you should never leave your kids unattended with any animal-- just my humble opinion).

My next pistol will be a Sig Sauer .45. I've shot many auto's before going away for training, and I just love this brand. My wife wants one too, also in .45 cal. Go figure. The last Sig I fired at the range was just awesome, I wish I could remember which one it was. Most of the other .45s I tried seem to pull a little to the right, the Sig seemed to just pull up a little. Maybe it's just me. I don't know.

Anyway, I like the Sig. :001_smile

[joseywales]

If you rightfully shoot someone in the course of defending yourself, you could easily spend $75,000 and up defending your actions - and lose a lot of friends in the process. So do whatever you can to avoid it. Home defense is about a system and strategy, not a gun. Dogs are excellent to have. The smaller the better. Small dogs make great watch dogs. Noise is what your after here. If you can't have a dog, give the appearance of a dog. Put a big dog bowl outside by the back door, or on your porch. Good lighting outside of course. Alarm systems, etc. Get your gun, secure your family, and call 911. Searching the house for the intruder will get you killed. You might have home field advantage and know the layout, but every idiot knows that the homeowner will be coming down a 3 foot-wide stairway. You're easy pickens for the intruder.

Find an attorney who specializes in defending self-defense actions and keep his card with you. Most attorneys are not skilled in this area and ALWAYs remember. Cops are there to solve a murder and they really don't care who goes down for it. This is NOT a slight to any police officer. It was told to be by a police leutenant, who was commenting on aggressive rookies anxious to rack up collars. After all, you did kill someone.

For a self defense handgun, used properly, the 1911, in 45, is hard to beat. HOWEVER, if you are not going to practice often, forget it! It's true, that 1911s have saftey built in, but it will work against you if you are not properly trained and don't practice at least monthly, or so. And the 45 takes some getting used to, though many women shoot it better than you think. Look for NRA course at your local rnage, but make sure the instructors are competant. I've seen those who are not. Springfield 1911s, Colt 1911s, Kimbers are all good. I'm really not a big fan of others and I think Colts are overpriced. Springfield has the best customer service that I've come across.


{B]Caliber:[/B] one shot stop is what you are after and the 125 grain, 357 is hard to beat for that. Ruger makes a great SP101 for that round and Ruger fans will NEVER give theirs up. I know I won't :biggrin: I'm not a big fan of the 40, because although it has some advantage over the 9mm, most guns "pop" when they shoot it, causing the barrel to rise. If you can't hit what you aim at, a 50 caliber won't help you. One famous gun aficianado keeps a 22 in his nightstand, because at 3:00AM, when the SHTF, he can control the weapon and put two shots in your farhead. Conversely, a 20 gauge, or even 410, are a bit loud and flashy, but it's hard to miss the bedroom doorway with them and you typically won't get too much over penetration, possibly harming family members, etc. Mossbergs would get it done. Remington 870 pump will out live your grandchildren with minimal upkeep.

Glocks are hard to beat for price, simplicity, and reliability. That said, if you shoot guns enough, or hang with those who do, you'll see that every gun breaks. If any item is handmade, it will break at some point in time. try to fine those with less MTBF, Mean time Between Failures. Glock, SIG, Ruger (revolver) all fine weapons. Spend the extra money, when warranted. after all, your life could depend on it.

[Masterofsparks]

A whole bunch of glockaholics around here. A glock 23 is going to run you about 500 bucks before taxes/fees. That's more than you want to pay for something that is going to sit in a drawer in your nightstand until you take it out to the range and shooting while camping (I get the impression you won't be doing much shooting, otherwise you'd already have a bunch of guns;).

GB


Just a opinion...mine of course...but if you buy a handgun or any weapon if you are just going to toss it in a drawer and not use it unless an intruder comes in...well don't do it. Training in use of a handgun is VERY important. Shoot when and all you can and take a firearm safety class. We shoot about once a week and it is a fun sport, but you have to be prepared.

[ECOSSE]

I say build a moat for home defense.

Edit
My wife just suggested alligators would be a nice addition to the moat, and I concur.

[joe2golf]

The following represents a very opinionated reply. It's just my experience and opinion...

In order to answer your question, I would ask how familiar you are with handguns and are you willing to get some training after purchase?

If you are unfamiliar with handguns, I'd choose a 4" revolver in 357, loaded initially with .38. Upgrade to .357 later if you want. Price is about the same. Might as well get a Smith & Wesson and not fool around.

If you have some experience and have shot some semi-autos, then I'd go Glock 19 in 9mm. You can buy mags that are CA acceptable. Simple, bombproof, no maintenance issues and no safety to commit to muscle memory.

In regards to children, get a GunVault. Super fast and can be left on your bedside table. Don't rely on training your child to respect firearms. They will have friends or relatives come over.

Shotguns and rifles - to hard to secure from children and access quickly.
1911's require training and maintenance.
Sigs are great choices but cost more than Glocks. Most require de-cocking. If you are new to handguns, I'd stick with simple single action.
H&K - too expensive and most require de-cocks.
Other semi-autos mentioned are compromises IMO.

Can't say enough about training. NRA is the first step and only the bare-boned basics.

Again, just an opinion from someone who has wasted a ton of money over the years arriving at these conclusions. :)

[5StringThumper]

I've been in Law Enforcement of almost a decade now and this question comes up most often from new home owners, new parents and those living alone in less than savory neighborhoods.

If I were to recommend a handgun for home or self defense it would be an easy to maintain snub nose, or short barrel revolver. The beauty of this type of weapon is the complete limitation of its number of moving parts. Most revolvers are built like guns; whereas most semi-auto pistols are built like machines whose secondary purpose is to put rounds on target.

Revolvers don't jam, they don't skip, and they are incapable of stove-piping or double feeding. The safety devices are easy to use; but more importantly they are easy to FEEL. Yes, I said FEEL...especially if you’re reaching for your weapon in the dark of the middle of the night.

As far as caliber is concerned I would recommend a moderate caliber; not too weak...not to strong. I say this according to my personal philosophy on self defense weapons. "You must ask yourself this question: Is your goal to stop an attacker, or is your goal to KILL an attacker?" If your answer is to kill an attacker, a handgun is certainly not in your best interest.

Confidently I would recommend a caliber between a .380 (short 9MM) or a weak grained .357. I would advise this for many reasons but the three primary reasons are:

1. AMMO COST - Sure, you can get a handgun in large grain .357, .40, .45, .44 MAGl, or any other outrageously large caliber; but, you still have to go shoot once in a while to maintain proficiency. The skill of shooting does indeed have a shelf-life (use it or lose it) and it most certainly isn't like riding a bike. If you're going to the range for practice (at least 3-4 times a month in the beginning), then you are going to burn through a boat load of ammo. Round per round, and box per box; the price really starts adding up. Rounds in .380 and 9MM and the like are much more affordable in the long run.

2. SHOOT THRU POWER - Believe it or not, in defense shootings inside a person’s home, the biggest hesitation from the home owner is FEAR. Not the fear of shooting someone in their home, but rather the realization of what's in the room, beyond the wall, behind the persons they are targeting. 12ga shotguns, .45's and larger ammunition have CAUSED the homeowners to flinch or hesitate because their child was in the adjoining room; or their neighbor might be home (esp. in condos or townhouses).

3. EASE OF USE - Simply put; what if you were away and this weapon had to be used in self defense by your wife, or significant other under crisis circumstances. A revolver is damn near fool-proof and is incredibly accurate over short ranges; in most cases up to 20 yards (60 feet). So if there is a room in your house which is longer than 60 feet...this might not be the weapon for you.

Anyway, I hope this answers some of your questions, but more importantly I hope this settles some nerves on the subject. Money is rarely the predominate factor when choosing a home defense weapon whereas reliability and effectiveness are.

Take Care, Good Luck, and Stay Safe.
5StringThumper

[Not A Nice Person]

That's some good solid advice right there.

All I can add is that I personally know someone who took a .38 round in the upper torso, and went on to take the gun away from the shooter and beat him senseless with it . . . :lol:

.38 for practice, low grain .357 for home defense. Hydroshocks are getting a little harder to find but are a terrific round. Genuine stopping power, every time, and not as likely to blow through seven stud walls and hit your neighbor as some of what's out there.

NANP™

[whodat]

That's some good solid advice right there.

All I can add is that I personally know someone who took a .38 round in the upper torso, and went on to take the gun away from the shooter and beat him senseless with it . . . :lol:

.38 for practice, low grain .357 for home defense. Hydroshocks are getting a little harder to find but are a terrific round. Genuine stopping power, every time, and not as likely to blow through seven stud walls and hit your neighbor as some of what's out there.

NANP™

+1 to all that -- although I'm a big Speer Gold-Dot fan.

[sirahren]

pre owned sig 229 in 40 or 226 in 9mm. cant go wrong. some of the new ones are hit or miss, but their customer service is excellent.

[Mr. RazorBurns]

I use and carry a Springfield XD 40. In the training course I took they told us that in a high adrenaline, panic, (plus it most likely will be dark), your shooting accuracy goes to about 10%. So I went with 13 shots in a clip. I try to shot at least every two weeks at the range and as part of that I use dummy rounds to practice clearing a misfire. What ever you decide to get, practice practice practice.

[senorsignor]

Silverback, interesting observation. The Red Coats unsuccessfully tried to disarm us at Lexington and Concord. just yanking your chain.
Can someone tell me how to change the subtitle from "Wetshaving Wannabe"?

[Mr. RazorBurns]

Can someone tell me how to change the subtitle from "Wetshaving Wannabe"?
It changes magically as your post go up. When I started posting it was Ex-lurker. It appears they have changed some of the titles and the amount of posts. Yesterday I was a lieutenant of free samples. Today, suddenly I'm a Proraso Pirate. It is part of the fun of being her. Welcome to the form!

[Mordecai]

I think the best advice I've ever heard about "which gun should I get?" is to hold, shoot, and handle as many as you can. Then get the one that feels "right" to you. When you wrap your hands around that particular gun it feels like it belongs there, nice and comfortable.

[smity83]

First and foremost when purchasing a handgun you must know how to use it. If you have never fired a gun before then do yourself a favor and join a firearms safety course, and that goes for anyone else that you could possibly imagine ever firing that weapon for self defense or otherwise. If you do not know how to handle a weapon (unload, reload, clear a jam, use safeties, get a good sight picture) properly then you pose a serious danger to everyone, including yourself, whenever you hold that weapon. Furthermore, if you don't have experience with a weapon and/or aren't prepared mentally for for using the weapon for the purpose of self-defense then having a high-capacity, semi-auto desert eagle will serve little to compensate for your lack of skills. A .22 LR round that hits a target is much better than a .50 cal round that doesn't. On a side note, one of the funniest things new handgun owners do is purchase expensive laser sights thinking that it's easy to shoot a target if there is a dot on it, and then find out that getting the dot on a target is just a little bit harder than they expected....and that's an understatement. You have to learn the basics before you start attaching freakin' lasers to your weapons.

If there are children in the house who have no significant experience around firearms, having one in the home for self-defense is unrealistic, as they must be loaded and very easily accessible at a moments notice. However, if that is not the case then I support what other members have said about buying a revolver. Low maintenance, extremely reliable, and have more than enough power to get the job done. I personally own a S&W 686+, .357 with a 6" barrel. I only use this weapon for range shooting, but I can tell you that it is my favorite weapon to fire. The Hogue grips it comes with perfectly fit my hands, and the weight of the weapon helps compensate a lot for kickback. The 7 round capacity is great, and the ability to adjust the sights helps a lot for accuracy. It is a weapon that just feels "right" when firing it, for me that is.

I also own a Sig P226, chambered for 9mm rounds. I love that weapon too. It is very accurate, and I've never had a misfire with it. It doesn't have any plastic components which gives it a nice heft over glocks. It also doesn't have lots of safeties on it to make firing the weapon any more complicated. The biggest safety for a weapon is the actual person firing the weapon, not the weapon itself.

For fun on camping trips, nothing can beat a .22. I have a Ruger .22 LR with a bull barrell and really enjoy firing it. It is sort of PITA to clean but is very accurate, has no kickback (feels like BB gun), and the ammunition is cheap as dirt.

Anyways, hope some of this information helps!

[Roman414]

I can personally attest that a .357 touched off in a confined space like a bedroom, in the dark, is a "Holy crap!" event. The muzzle blast burns your retinas and your ears ring for days. No amount of practice at a range, hopefully wearing ear protection, is going to prepare you for it. And God only knows where your second shot is going to go. I concur with the advice to choose a medium-power cartridge and practice, practice with it. My personal choice is my Ruger Sp101 snubby, loaded with .38 Specials. If five well-olaced shots don't resolve the issue, having more is unlikely to do me any good,

[DeltaAir423]

If you have some experience and have shot some semi-autos, then I'd go Glock 19 in 9mm. You can buy mags that are CA acceptable. Simple, bombproof, no maintenance issues and no safety to commit to muscle memory.

In regards to children, get a GunVault. Super fast and can be left on your bedside table. Don't rely on training your child to respect firearms. They will have friends or relatives come over.

Shotguns and rifles - to hard to secure from children and access quickly.
1911's require training and maintenance.
Sigs are great choices but cost more than Glocks. Most require de-cocking. If you are new to handguns, I'd stick with simple single action.
H&K - too expensive and most require de-cocks.
Other semi-autos mentioned are compromises IMO.

Can't say enough about training. NRA is the first step and only the bare-boned basics.

Again, just an opinion from someone who has wasted a ton of money over the years arriving at these conclusions. :)

Ok, I've bitten my tongue long enough, in fact it's bleeding right now.

For a first handgun, I highly advise against a Glock. Glock bills themselves as a low cost, easy training handgun. I have seen more negligent discharges by Glocks than any other handgun.

Going from the NRA safety rules, and I'll quote directly from the site.



1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.


3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.


As soon as you break rule number two, you have just disabled every "manual safety" that Glock has designed into the firearm, and you're resting on a 4.5-5.5 lb trigger, vs a 10-12 lb trigger on a double action pull of a revolver.

I second the notion of a .357 revolver as a first firearm. A Smith and Wesson 686 or Ruger SP101 should serve you well.

If you're dead set on a semi-auto I can't suggest a M1911 or Browning High Power pistol enough. 1911's and High Powers generally don't have maintenance issues if you purchase them from a reputable manufacturer. In the 1911 series, I highly suggest Springfield Armory or Kimber.

If you're going to look into a Glock style firearm, I'd suggest getting a double action only pistol such as a Smith and Wesson Model 910.

For those that mention the "high cost" of Sigs, Sig offers police trade in models that are inspected, and brought back into spec by Sig, and sold at a significant discount over new models. There might be some holster wear, but they will function as a new pistol.

In closing, I can't stress training enough, and having the ability to try before you buy.

[MikeLip]

I'd go with the Glock in 40S&W for purely self defense purposes. For something in a little more fun package but also able to easily handle self defense, the Sig also in .40.

I love .357. I don't think there is a better or more versatile cartridge out there anywhere. It can do anything from target shooting (especially if you load your own - I love a light load with full lead wadcutters in my .357s) to devastating self defense with a 125gr semijacketed hollowpoint. Gruesome perhaps but morgue and shooting studies show the .357 best at one shot stops, better than the .45ACP or even the .44 mag. But the cartridge is limited by the handgun. Revolvers handle 6 or 7 rounds and are bulkier (in a genuinely shootable configuration anyway) than a flat sided semiauto. And semis are very reliable. Plus they carry more rounds on tap and reload faster if you carry a second magazine.

That's my vote.

[whodat]

I'm surprised how many people are suggesting the Sig 229 in .40 cal. I received most of my "tactical" training with a Sig and never found it to be a good fit for me. It felt like holding an oversized toy gun -- including that sloppy trigger...

Just an observation on that --

I agree with Delta about having a firearm with a safety, but that only applies for automatics because of the lighter trigger pull. Wheel guns are double-action with a heavy trigger pull (unless you manually pull the hammer back prior to shooting) and are a much safer option for people not used to handling guns every day.

Stick with the wheel gun, you won't be sorry in the long run!

Edit: As to someone mentioning the huge blast of a .357 in a dark room -- that mostly applies to the little snubbies. A full sized 4"+ barrel will tone that down a bit -- comparable to other firearms in the same situation...

[stobes21]

Ok, I've bitten my tongue long enough, in fact it's bleeding right now.

For a first handgun, I highly advise against a Glock. Glock bills themselves as a low cost, easy training handgun. I have seen more negligent discharges by Glocks than any other handgun.

Going from the NRA safety rules, and I'll quote directly from the site.



As soon as you break rule number two, you have just disabled every "manual safety" that Glock has designed into the firearm, and you're resting on a 4.5-5.5 lb trigger, vs a 10-12 lb trigger on a double action pull of a revolver.

I second the notion of a .357 revolver as a first firearm. A Smith and Wesson 686 or Ruger SP101 should serve you well.

If you're dead set on a semi-auto I can't suggest a M1911 or Browning High Power pistol enough. 1911's and High Powers generally don't have maintenance issues if you purchase them from a reputable manufacturer. In the 1911 series, I highly suggest Springfield Armory or Kimber.

If you're going to look into a Glock style firearm, I'd suggest getting a double action only pistol such as a Smith and Wesson Model 910.

For those that mention the "high cost" of Sigs, Sig offers police trade in models that are inspected, and brought back into spec by Sig, and sold at a significant discount over new models. There might be some holster wear, but they will function as a new pistol.

In closing, I can't stress training enough, and having the ability to try before you buy.

Couple of points:

1. Don't break rule #2. Whether your trigger is 2 pounds or 12, if you put your finger on it when you shouldn't you're setting yourself up for a ND. Revolvers don't have any more manual safeties than do glocks, and the type of dangerous behavior that will cause a ND with a glock will also cause one with a revolver.

2. You can get a heavier trigger for the glock. In fact, I think there are "New York" trigger groups named for NYPD which up the trigger pull to over 10lbs. Of course, as mentioned above, with proper trigger finger discipline it isn't necessary.

3. You recommend DAO pistols if not going for a revolver, but then specifically recommend the 1911 and Hi-Power. This is a contradiction, as the glock is a DAO (albeit striker-fired) pistol, whereas both the 1911 and Hi-Power are single action. Were you thinking of a pistol with an external safety?

4. Again, keep your boogerhook off the bangswitch and your chances for a ND go to virtually nil. But with poor trigger finger discipline you will eventually have a ND, whether you are using a glock, sig, or revolver.

[Kit Walker]

If you are looking for something for home defense only, I would suggest a shotgun in the "riot gun" configuration and a cell phone. People will argue against this, citing the longer length of the shotgun and that it will hang up in narrow confines. However, you should not be thinking about playing Rambo by going out and stalking anyone who invades your property. Your only concern should be the survival of yourself and your family. Gather them into a secure room, fort up, and use your cell phone to call in the cavalry -- professionals who are paid and trained to handle such situations.

[Gravy]

Wow, can-o-worms

+ to the comments on trying them out at a range to see what you like best.
+ to getting a .22 in addition to something for the home.

Mine was the last class at the PD to train on revolvers before they got replaced w/ a semi-auto. I'm not a gunsmith, but I don't think you should choose a revolver purely for reliability. I've seen them fail and a revolver fail is not easy to fix if its something other than a failure to fire. My glock and sigs are very reliable. Break them in and keep them maintained and its not an issue.

+ 1 on the NRA's Eddy Eagle program.
Also, here is some good reading on children and guns.
http://www.corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx#Kids

[joe2golf]

I agree with Delta on the benefits of a revolver and the rules of firearms safety, but we disagree on the Glock.

I do not think a 1911 style weapon is a good choice because of the manual safety. It requires a lot of discipline and training. Flicking the safety off and on must be second nature and unless the original poster tells me he is willing to spend the time training, I cannot recommend the 1911. If you are worried about the light Glock trigger, I would imagine you'd be terrified over a 1911 super-light trigger and a safety that requires remembering to activate.

[professorchaos]

Self defense: H&K USP .45
All Purpose: Smith and Wesson Model 629 .44 Magnum, 5" barrel. The .44 mag is FUN to shoot and can be used to hunt with hard cast semi-wadcutter bullets (might want a longer barrel though). It will also fire .44 special rounds which can be used effectively for self defense (might want a shorter barrel).

[Fnord5]

I am a 1911 man myself.
I could never shoot GLOCK's well, but if they work for you, they seem to be unstoppable, and an excellent gun.

The .45ACP is a very tame round, at least on the shooters end. Would not want to take a hit from one on the receiving end.

One drawback for a 1911 clone is that to be effective, it has to be carried "cocked, locked and ready to rock" IE: hammer cocked, thumb safety on.

For new shooters its a little unnerving, but perfectly safe.

But, even as a die hard auto fan, I would insist on a n00b getting a wheel gun in .357.
Impossible to jam, and in the unlikely event of a misfire, a quick second pull of the trigger gets you a fresh round without thinking about it.

Spend the extra little bit for the .357, because you can shoot .38 special all day long(cheaper) and then load it up with hot .357 magnums for actual defense. If you go with the .38, you are stuck with one option.

A snubbie Smith&Wesson is an easily concealable pistol, less than 500 bucks, and has laser grips available.
Yeah, LASER grips.:blushing:
Not my style, as I have thousands of rounds through my .45's and have no need.
However for the inexperienced, and especially in a panic situation, a laser is highly effective. Bullet goes where red dot is. Criminals and thugs know this.
Also, it allows you to keep your field of vision open to see other threats because you can shoot "from the hip"

My parents both have Crimson Trace grips, my dad on his Kimber CDP (officers model 1911) and my mom on her snubbie .38.
Both are dialed in so the bullet will literally go where the red dot shines.

For home defense, short pistol grip 12 gauge loaded with BB, #4, or #6 shot.
Just the sound of the pump action is enough to let any intruder know you mean business.(it's the standard sound for every movie gun sound effect)

[DeltaAir423]

Couple of points:

1. Don't break rule #2. Whether your trigger is 2 pounds or 12, if you put your finger on it when you shouldn't you're setting yourself up for a ND. Revolvers don't have any more manual safeties than do glocks, and the type of dangerous behavior that will cause a ND with a glock will also cause one with a revolver.

2. You can get a heavier trigger for the glock. In fact, I think there are "New York" trigger groups named for NYPD which up the trigger pull to over 10lbs. Of course, as mentioned above, with proper trigger finger discipline it isn't necessary.

3. You recommend DAO pistols if not going for a revolver, but then specifically recommend the 1911 and Hi-Power. This is a contradiction, as the glock is a DAO (albeit striker-fired) pistol, whereas both the 1911 and Hi-Power are single action. Were you thinking of a pistol with an external safety?

4. Again, keep your boogerhook off the bangswitch and your chances for a ND go to virtually nil. But with poor trigger finger discipline you will eventually have a ND, whether you are using a glock, sig, or revolver.


I highly agree about following rule number two stops a ND. When something is going on in the house, and your adrenaline is pumping, it's easy to forget the NRA rules. I see it all the time with new shooters at IDPA matches.

The recommendation for a DAO pistol was for if he's dead set on a Glock style firearm. I still recommend a 1911 or a BHP as first autos to anyone looking to get into auto. The nice thing about the 1911 and the BHP is that the slide safety location is one of the most ergonomically placed on any handgun. As part of the proper grip of the pistol, your right thumb will be resting on the safety, so you can actuate it on target acquisition.

Of course my absolute first choice for a home defense weapon is illegal to purchase new in the fine state of California.

[blary54]

9mm Springfield Xd or Glock 19.

I have both (well i one a diff glock model) and love them both.

9mm is cheapest to shoot and most fun in my opinion.

[dandog9209d]

My advice is that if your gun is going to be used for self defense, it should be easy to operate under pressure.

I have a double action only (Glock style) S&W M&P 9mm compact. The idea being that there is not safety, de-cocker, or anything else to think about if should need to be used under pressure. Point it and squeeze the trigger as many times as you need to.

It is not as accurate a gun as a single action or single/double, so for the range getting the bullets to hit a paper plate at 25 yards is sufficient.

As for a double action revolver it is the same idea. You can simply squeeze the trigger and it works.

As far as caliber, do your research and see what you like best. I'm happy with my 9mm and use +p Cor-bons for self defense. Cheap UMC Walmart ammo is fine for plinking.

My wife carries a .380 Ruger LCP.

[PCFiend138]

i personally like revolvers that fire calibers which are created by lengthening the casing of another round. that way if you get a concealed handgun license you can use the larger round for defense and the smaller round or rounds for practice. .44 mag is my personal favorite.

[DVDTracker]

Sounds like a .357 revolver or a Glock semi-auto in 9mm would be the way to go. My first gun was a Glock 17 that I bought thirteen years ago. It has tens of thousands of rounds through it and it's extremely reliable with many types of ammunition.

I picked up a S&W M&P 9mm at the gun show last weekend. Shot it a little bit but need to get a few hundred more rounds through it before I decide if I like it.

Like other posters have said... training, training, training. I had been shooting for a few years and thought I was pretty good with a pistol. Then I took a basic pistol class and found out how much I still had to learn. Sight alignment, sight picture and tigger control are the basic fundamentals. If you can't do those, it doesn't matter what you shoot.

But when in doubt, you can always just empty the magazine. :001_smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZWCHWqwGc&feature=channel_page

[DeltaAir423]

Sounds like a .357 revolver or a Glock semi-auto in 9mm would be the way to go. My first gun was a Glock 17 that I bought thirteen years ago. It has tens of thousands of rounds through it and it's extremely reliable with many types of ammunition.

I picked up a S&W M&P 9mm at the gun show last weekend. Shot it a little bit but need to get a few hundred more rounds through it before I decide if I like it.

Like other posters have said... training, training, training. I had been shooting for a few years and thought I was pretty good with a pistol. Then I took a basic pistol class and found out how much I still had to learn. Sight alignment, sight picture and tigger control are the basic fundamentals. If you can't do those, it doesn't matter what you shoot.

But when in doubt, you can always just empty the magazine. :001_smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZWCHWqwGc&feature=channel_page

I was expecting your M-1 video DVD. :biggrin:

[mketz747]

:thumbup1: I agree that the best home defense weapon is a short barreled 12 ga. shotgun. The sound of a shotgun round being chambered is the loudest sound in the world. The affect of that sound tends to get immediate attention and that sound alone may drive off an intruder. That being said I still like having pistol or revolver around. Keep trying various models and get what works best for you.


There are a lot of good suggestions here on this thread. Personally, I would not recommend a handgun as a weapon of choice for home defense. Stray bullets can too easily find their way into your neighbor's house. My choice is 12 guage short barrel. Mossberg is good for that.

If you decide to get a pistol anyway, my pick for the home is a Glock 23. It is extremely reliable and accurate. It would be in your best interest to invest in a combat self-defense course with the pistol, no matter which one you decide on.

If you do decide on the pistol, another thing to consider is an easily accessible hidden storage area that is usually disguised as a painting or photograph. Trigger locks and safes that require codes to get in them don't help much if you wind up needing the gun in a hurry. Your boy is old enough to teach him to stay away from it.

Here are some ideas for safe storage
Fingerprint safe (http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Gear-Hide-A-Gun-Picture-Frame/dp/B0006I0DXK)
Wallclock (http://bljsselfdefense.com/wall-clock-with-hidden-safe-p478.html)
Picture Frame (http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Gear-Hide-A-Gun-Picture-Frame/dp/B0006I0DXK)
Another Picture Frame Safe (http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezstore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1804#a1)

[General Burnside]

Just a opinion...mine of course...but if you buy a handgun or any weapon if you are just going to toss it in a drawer and not use it unless an intruder comes in...well don't do it. Training in use of a handgun is VERY important. Shoot when and all you can and take a firearm safety class. We shoot about once a week and it is a fun sport, but you have to be prepared.

I agree with you, people shouldn't. Unfortunately I think most guns ins the US (at least in California, where I and the OP are from) just sit and are only around for hypothetical bad guy situations. We don't have all the shooting friendly areas other states do, I have to drive over 2 hours to get to blm land I can shoot on. Depending on where he is, going to the range every month can be a PITA. Fortunately the odds of the OP needing the gun for defense in his home are very small, so I still say a Hipoin because all he really needs is piece of mind. I try and shoot about 2-3 times a month.

GB

[RayH]

From a personal standpoint I would suggest that you research and rent any handgun or pistol you're interested in. I've owned a High Point C9 and can attest that 1. it was highly accurate but need some serious repair straight out of the box. 2. High Point has excellent customer service. After being fixed (problem was the slide) it came back cadillac. No problems shooting at all. Unfortunately it was stolen during an break in at my old apartment while I was at work. I also owned an RIA 1911 which was a beautiful gun. It too was stolen in the break in.
I've owned 3 .38 spcls all made by Taurus. The first 2 were great. The 3rd that I currently own is a lemon. Doesn't index properly, I've sent it in twice and both times after about a 100 rounds the indexing and timing screwed up again. I'm leery of sending it in again and will probably take it to a gunsmith. Now I'm not saying the Tauri pistols and handguns are bad, just that one. I have since bought another Taurus. The Millennium Pro PT111 in 9mm. I like this gun. No problems whatsoever. And truth be told that is the gun I would recommend. And if you like, the Millenniums come bigger calibers also. Just so you know I also owned a S&W model 19 .357 a few years ago which I sold to a gunshop. And a few .22 semiautos. And I bought another RIA 1911 to replace the one that was stolen. I haven't replaced the High Point. Now when it comes to the High Point, they are a low priced option. If you can't afford one of the more expensive guns then go ahead and buy one. I had bought mine coming off a lay off. But be prepared to send it in to be fixed. Between HP and Taurus (considering the results), HP comes out on top in terms of customer service. But most of all buy one that you can shoot. If you can't shoot it, or are afraid to shoot it for some reason (too big, recoil to heavy, whatever) don't buy it. And practice with it. Take courses at your local range, especially ones on your local state law. That will help you to really prepare yourself for self defense with a gun. Just my .2 cents worth here.

[DVDTracker]

I was expecting your M-1 video DVD. :biggrin:

Here's some Garand goodness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOb_9l1FTCo

[MotoMike]

This is not an issue if you're loading hollow points for home defense. .

I don't know if this pertains, but when I was with San Diego PD, they used a version of the silver tip hollow point that was light charged to keep it from penetrating walls. I can recall at roll call one time hearing a debriefing of a shooting the night before. a guy was terrorizing a neighborhood with mini 14. When the first responders arrived they took some fire from him but did not get hit. They returned fire. They told of seeing the rounds hit the guy, but he did not go down. claimed to see pieces fly off. Eventually several other cars arrived and after many good hits the guy did go down, but not before bouncing one under a car and shattering a sgts ankle. So I don't know if down loading a round is a good idea.

[Fnord5]

The best out there for indoor use are the Frangible bullets. Glasser Safety Slug makes them in a variety of calibers.

Basically they are a copper jacket, filled with very small shot, smaller than #8 if memory serves, then suspended in an epoxy.

They are safe to use on aircraft too, as they will not penetrate.

The theory behind them is very fast bullet speed, with a light weight bullet, and 100% energy transfer.

They are pricey, about 10 bucks for 6 rounds, and because of the light bullet weight, I would recommend a revolver to avoid feeding issues.
http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2007/08/12/15794423.jpg

[grb]

The best out there for indoor use are the Frangible bullets. Glasser Safety Slug makes them in a variety of calibers.

YMMV and all that...I disagree. Perhaps if in your home the floor plan is such that the likely spot where you would engage an intruder and be forced to shoot would be directly in line with a loved one's bedroom, then I might agree.

I have shot Glasers into ballistic gellatin and water filled jugs and for me, it is not what I want in a self-defense round. I do not want the bullet to break into a handful of pieces. Head shots aside, I want a big, solid, slow moving .45cal slug that will penetrate deeply and smash bones and leave a large wound channel.

Just my $.02

[RayH]

Originally Posted by Fnord5
The best out there for indoor use are the Frangible bullets. Glasser Safety Slug makes them in a variety of calibers.

While they are much ballyhooed, I've yet to read of any real life experiences with them to back up the fanfare. Until then I'm not going to consider them.

[DeaconKC]

Any rifle caliber round will punch through a lot more than a pistol round. That is why shotguns and handguns are better for 99% of the things that an ordinary person will run into. A carbine in a pistol caliber makes a lot of sense in a house because it will hit a little harder because the barrel length allows the cartridge to develop more velocity. Also the extra weight makes even a 44 magnum a pussycat to shoot.

[DVDTracker]

Glasers don't not have enough penetration to be considered viable self-defense rounds.

[DeltaAir423]

Any rifle caliber round will punch through a lot more than a pistol round. That is why shotguns and handguns are better for 99% of the things that an ordinary person will run into. A carbine in a pistol caliber makes a lot of sense in a house because it will hit a little harder because the barrel length allows the cartridge to develop more velocity. Also the extra weight makes even a 44 magnum a pussycat to shoot.

I don't know if you're familiar with Old Painless from ar15.com or not, but he ran through some penetration testing just for the heck of it. Hey he's retired, what's he supposed to do?

Anyways, he runs a site called The Box O' Truth (http://www.theboxotruth.com/). Some of his handgun test will suprise you.

[DeaconKC]

While certainly not perfect, so far the best results we've got are from Marshall and Sanow in their studies of bullet effectiveness. I did enjoy the box's tests and his writing, thanks.

[nrek619]

I like a 12 gauge pistol grip and with a light and birdshot so not to over penetrate the walls. plus just racking the shotgun would make any perp shit his pants!!! birdshot will still keep a tight pattern under 10ft which is usually as long as long as most hallways are in homes. rural areas would be great for semi-auto rifles and higher caliber pistols. I'm looking to buy a nice double barrel coach gun!!! goodtimes!!

[Janno05]

Here's some Garand goodness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOb_9l1FTCo

What kind of Garand are you shooting? I just ordered a CMP service grade HRA, and I am as giddy as a school girl waiting for it to show up on the doorstep.

[Tacceo]

If you want a baseball bat reliable weapon that's easy to field strip and maintain, the Beretta PX4 deserves serious consideration.

It's comes with adjustable grips so it'll feel great in your hand, available in 9mm, .40 and .45 and feeds any ammo you can think of for $550 NIB.

[Janno05]

Find a local shooting range and see what they have for rentals. See what fits your hand best, and what you shoot best. Anything above 9mm will be fine with current bullet technology. FWIW, I carry a Glock 19 or a Kahr PM9, with a Kimber 1911 for my home defense gun. The Kimber will be leaving soon, because I want Les Baer or a Wilson. Good luck.

[SRock]

From what I understand revolvers are more reliable; less likely to jam than a semi. I am looking also, and for much of the same reasons.

Just revisited this thread and had a laugh at this (and other similar) comments, no offense to anyone posting. Like Deacon said earlier on, this debate will go on for some time (truthfully probably only until the last cops/military to be issued revolvers pass on to that great firing range in the sky). Modern autos are great, and the great guns are every bit as reliable as a revolver. As a gunsmith of over 10 years I can tell you I've done as much repair work on some revolvers as I have some autos.

Like I said in my earlier response, the most important thing is to buy what works for you. I could tell you all day long that if I were your size the only gun I'd carry would be a 1911 (I'm too short to properly conceal one) or that if I had an open budget I'd buy an H&K auto because in my experience they just don't break or malfunction and as far as tactical Tupperware is concerned IMO they are tops! But, as everyone says here on the forum, YMMV and it MV a great deal.

I wouldn't take a Hi-Point if it was given to me for free; I'd never touch an Astra, Star or several other "low end" handguns either. However, I know people who own them, love them and have never had a problem with them. I could talk to you all day long about reliability (both from a "will it shoot when I need it" standpoint and general serviceability).

Bottom line, DON'T BUY A GUN YOU'VE NEVER FIRED and DON'T BUY A GUN UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE TRIED SEVERAL DIFFERENT TYPES, CALIBERS, etc.

[ssilcox]

Try shooting a Kimber .45. Large bore, but they put the weight toward the front of the gun, so you get alot less recoil. My dad has a Beretta .45, and we can barely get through 20 rounds before our wrists are sore. With the kimber, we can get off a few boxes before we are done. They are a joy to shoot.

[Kratos]

Ahhh, the old reliabilty myths. Autos aren't what they used to be. If reliability was an issue most cops probably wouldn't carry them. Jams usually can be cleared very quickly, anyway. For simplicity, you can't beat a Glock, but u may not like the ergonomics. Kimbers are great, but a bit pricey.

[DVDTracker]

What kind of Garand are you shooting? I just ordered a CMP service grade HRA, and I am as giddy as a school girl waiting for it to show up on the doorstep.

A CMP service grade. The receiver is a Springfield dated Oct 1944.

[DeaconKC]

DVD, you will love it. I have a Dec 43 SA from the CMP and it is a great shooter.

[Hawkeye5]

I would pass on a Glock. I've owned a 19 for years. Always goes 'bang', but they are subject to AD if not carried properly in a holster that covers the trigger. I also have smaller hands and double stack pistols don't fit me that well.
If I was to purchase a new pistol it would more than likely be a Dan Wesson Commander. High end parts, more reasonable price than the Ed Brown Executive Carry. Reliable, proven .45 APC. Easy to carry, but it takes some training and practice to shoot a 1911 clone under pressure.
But, if you are only going to shoot once or twice a year stick with a 2 1/2 to 4 inch .38 Special revolver or a Sig P 230/232 in .380 for an auto if you can handle a bit of recoil from the Sig design (actually, almost all .380 auto pistols are a bit snappy).

[nrek619]

also Smith and Wesson MP series are sweet!!!. they have revolvers,semi-autos, and AR15 rifles. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=40302 been looking at the 40cal compact for my new off duty carry.

[Sticky]

In addition to the pistol, I'd recommend at least this:

In the Gravest Extreme by Massad F. Ayoob <- answers the "when-you-can" questions.


Other nice ones:

Stressfire by Massad F. Ayoob <- answers the "how-you-can" questions (tactics that work under stress).
The Semiautomatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-Defense by Massad F. Ayoob <- answers some general questions and many tactical hints.


The writer is an expert in the subject and also teaches tactics and lethal force use (did 20 years ago, anyway) to police and citizens. Here's one place the books are available, Police Bookshelf (http://ayoob.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Ayoob&Category_Code=AMAB).

[DeaconKC]

Mas Ayoob still teaches and is still one of the best around.

[ob1kanobee]

I personally purchased a Springfield 45 cal. XD With that said however I would of chose differently knowing what I know now. It is a great gun, don't get me wrong, I would have just gone with a revolver instead of an automatic. One of the reasons I have for this is that an auto when fired spews the spent cartridges all over the place leaving behind a nice forensics trail if you will. I'm not too concerned with the reliability factor of the XD because if you use the ammo designed for that gun or maybe the gun designed for a certain brand of ammo you should be fine. Reality is that an auto will jam or the chances of a jam are much greater than a revolver. I don't care how many times someone tells you different this is the case.

I would go with a 45 cal or 44 cal revolver. Try and get something so that if you wanted a rifle you could interchange the ammo as well. Go the revolver route. You want something that when that hammer is cocked or the trigger is pulled that gun is going to fire 99.99% of the time.

Also if you go on this site "Sportsmans guide" online, they seemed to have some really good prices on ammo. I know mine was half the price I paid for at the gun store.

Another thing is look for a good used gun. Just make sure it is clean. You will save yourself a few bucks which could be used for another gun, ammo or perhaps shaving products. My brother has several guns which he has never paid over 200.00 for. When I was at the gun store recently I was surprised to see two of his exact guns for sale. One 44 cal for around 800.00 he paid 150.00 for and one Sig 9mm for sale for around 700.00 he only paid 200.00 for. Look in your newspaper for someone selling their guns.

[Kratos]

Forensics trail? What sort of uses do you have planned for your weapon? I will take the capacity of a good auto over a wheelgun. My Glock 21 has yet to jam. It's not hard to clear jams anyway. Revolvers are easier to use, though.

[RayH]

Forensics trail? What sort of uses do you have planned for your weapon? I will take the capacity of a good auto over a wheelgun. My Glock 21 has yet to jam. It's not hard to clear jams anyway. Revolvers are easier to use, though.

It's not the difficulty of clearing jams that is the problem, it's the situation you're in when you're doing it. Stress level goes way up when your gun jams and the bad guy is still coming at you.


As for my previous post concerning my Taurus 85 .38 snubbie, I've found out what the problem was. Seem it was a combination of the alloy the gun is made of and my shooting speed when I am practicing.
The gun being an ultralight is made of a titanium alloy making lighter than an all steel gun. When shooting at the range I've been practicing rapid fire and quick reloading using a couple of speed loaders. I can go through 100 rounds in about a half an hour. Not much if you're shooting a semi-auto. But that's a lot for a 5 round wheel gun.
The problem was/is that the gun being an alloy would heat up so much that the metal would expand out of specification or tolerance if you will. Thereby causing the cylinder to not index properly and the timing going out and not being able to shoot. Once it cooled down it was back in spec and would function properly. That never occurred to me.
Which tells me that when I sent it in to Taurus twice, all they did was probably inspect the gun to see if there was anything materially out of spec, test fire it a few times and send it back saying it was good to go. Had to go to a gunsmith to find that out.
That being the case, the gun is fine for defensive purposes. After all, how often will I have to shoot a hundred rounds through a five shot .38 snubbie in a defensive situation? If that were the case I'd be SOL:eek:

[DVDTracker]

I bet Taurus figured no one would want to put more than 20-30 rounds through an ultralight revolver in one range session.

[HoosierHacker]

I suggest going to a nice indoor range, renting then shooting them all, then purchasing the one that feels best to you.

Now, I'm partial to the Glocks - they are rock-solid performers in my book. Reliable. Fits my hand well. Lightweight. Very supportable and customizable - lots of them out there.

You are buying something you may bet your life on, so get what YOU like and have confidence in.

[DeaconKC]

I am going to disagree with several folks here with recommending against a Glock for a starting shooter. First, if I have to grab any gun in an emergency the Glock is one of my top choices. I carry a 23 on duty every day and it has never jammed in several thousand rounds. They are butt-ugly, but they work. So why do I not like them for a beginner? The light trigger pull [5-5 1/2 pounds] with no extra safety. When you pull the trigger on a Glock, it will go off. That is their strength, brutal reliability. But a new shooter, in a stressful situation, can easily have a negligent discharge, shooting by accident. In the middle of the night, half asleep, this could be a recipe for tragedy.

[Kratos]

+1 for that, Deacon. A New York spring, as mentioned before, could help there. I also agree on clearing jams being very stressful for the average, untrained person. Mine has yet to jam, however.

[Roman414]

Many people don't realize it, but semi-autos have been around just about as long as revolvers. I would not call them a "newer design" or "more modern". Both types have gone through a lot of evolution since the days of Colt Peacemakers and Mauser broom handles. Military/police requirements in a handgun are quite different from an average civilians; what is a good choice for one is not necessarily a good choice for the other. That taken into consideration, a modern Smith or Ruger wheelgun is an excellent choice, I think, for Joe Average. If you are willing and able to commit the time to practice, I would go with a 1911 as best of the best. But few of us can put in the time to master it, and if you don't it is an accident waiting to happen. And of course, YMMV.

[HoosierHacker]

Hey, if you are following the four laws of firearm safety, even a light trigger pull with no safety shouldn't be an issue.

In that sense, a glock that is very easy to operate is an excellent choice for a beginner.

Pull the trigger and go bang.

[DeaconKC]

For someone with lots of training and practice, you are right. I am talking about new shooters here. When you get that "What was that noise that just woke me up?" shot of adrenaline because you realize someone has just broken a window in the kitchen door, it is easy to put your finger on the trigger. Or if you are fully awake and in the situation where you NEED your finger on the trigger it is far too easy with a light pull. I have held people at gunpoint and your adrenaline is very high right then.

[Kratos]

Yes it is. Especially if they are being uncooperative.

[Big Fella]

I've been selling handguns for 47 years and a police firearms instructor for 29 years. If I was limited to one handgun, it would be a Glock 19.

[DeaconKC]

Big Fella, yup, you are exactly the kind of shooter that CAN handle the Glock under pressure and where they perform best.

[giffgiff]

Hey, what's your tagger screen name on COD4? I play all of the time, addicted! I am whiteacrobat. Send me a friend request and we can match up in some duals some time.

[allawd]

I've been selling handguns for 47 years and a police firearms instructor for 29 years. If I was limited to one handgun, it would be a Glock 19.

Sadly me too even though it's not my favorite shooter. If the OP is looking to prepare for the worst I would say a Glock 19 or 17 in 9mm with lots of full capacity and maybe even big 33rnd G18 magazines. Also, you want something common that will still has a huge volume of parts. A Browning Hi-power would also be an excellent choice for that reason, but it is not as simple as the Glock.

Chances are revolvers are less likely to be restricted like the "dangerous high capacity handguns":confused:

I'm in denial that anything will happen with handguns for the moment. Save the evil black rifles first!

[grottolord]

Im an officer in the Military and the side arm for officers is the Beretta M9,
for my personal weapon i chose the Beretta Police special which is the identical pistol though i chose the 40 cal.

this is a very reliable weapon and has more than enough knockdown power to suit your puposes and is comfortable to shoot and Maintain,and with kids in the house the Beretta has many saftey features, look into it,

I think the 357 is overkiill and over rated, IMHO
i picked up my piece for $650 used at my local gun shop.

also think about the cost of the ammo, it will be a factor if you plan to shoot the gun often,
good luck with you quest,
Grottolord

[cynical1]

I went through this last year, and after firing pretty much everything I could get my hands on I settled on a Springfield Armory XD9. I went with 9mm because my intentions are in line with yours, 95% range shooting, 4.99999% plinking while camping, and at MOST .00001% home defense. The 9mm rounds are the cheapest based on most of what I read and my personal research so that was a no brainer.

If you're not in a state like California, there are 15rd magazines available so not as much reloading at the range.

It's just an overall nice feeling weapon in your hand, and not being anything close to resembling an expert on shooting, the rounds seemed to land where I was aiming more with this than others. I had alot of people suggest used guns, and I'm sure there are many used guns out there that would have been fine. The thing is I just don't know enough about how to inspect a used gun to make sure it's all good, so I bought new. It ran just over $500.

[DeaconKC]

The XDs have earned an excellent reputation for accuracy and reliability. The Beretta is an excellent piece, it's only drawback being it is a large handgun. If you have hands large enough for it, it is a superb sidearm. Just use factory or Mec Gar magazines with it as I'm sure grottolord would attest to the fact that cheap magazines are about the only thing that will tie up one of those.

[Doctor Suarez]

I know I'm late to this one, and I haven't read everyone's responses, but here are a few tips:

-If you're worried about picking the right handgun, here's what I can tell you: You're going to wind up buying another one. And probably another one. Guns are like rabbits. They multiply.

-Since you're a wet-shaver, I bet you like things that are more old-fashioned and aesthetic. Things that require a little more work and care but produce better results. Therefore, you want a 1911 in .45. It takes more skill to field-strip, requires more lube, and can sometimes have a teething period when you first get it, but after you two get acquainted, you'll honestly wonder why anybody buys anything else. They handle so perfectly, they have an old, curvy, luxurious look about them that harkens back to a bygone era of craftsmanship, and the thump of a .45 is extremely satisfying, yet not overwhelming even to the slight of build.

The baseline for a quality 1911 is probably in the $650 range, for a base-model Springfield or the new Taurus. Higher up, you get into Kimbers, Para-Ordnance, Sig, or S&W. By then it really becomes more about options than makers.

Just find somebody willing to teach you the stripping and reassembly process, which is a bit quirky compared to most modern pistols.

[General Burnside]

I know I'm late to this one, and I haven't read everyone's responses, but here are a few tips:

-If you're worried about picking the right handgun, here's what I can tell you: You're going to wind up buying another one. And probably another one. Guns are like rabbits. They multiply.

-Since you're a wet-shaver, I bet you like things that are more old-fashioned and aesthetic. Things that require a little more work and care but produce better results. Therefore, you want a 1911 in .45. It takes more skill to field-strip, requires more lube, and can sometimes have a teething period when you first get it, but after you two get acquainted, you'll honestly wonder why anybody buys anything else. They handle so perfectly, they have an old, curvy, luxurious look about them that harkens back to a bygone era of craftsmanship, and the thump of a .45 is extremely satisfying, yet not overwhelming even to the slight of build.

The baseline for a quality 1911 is probably in the $650 range, for a base-model Springfield or the new Taurus. Higher up, you get into Kimbers, Para-Ordnance, Sig, or S&W. By then it really becomes more about options than makers.

Just find somebody willing to teach you the stripping and reassembly process, which is a bit quirky compared to most modern pistols.

This post is right on if you want to get something kinda nice. I've heard decent things about the Rock Island Arsenal 45s and they can be had for under 400 bucks often times. Also, don't be afraid to buy used.

GB

[Roman414]

Okay, my two cents. The .357 doesn't come into its own in anything less than a six inch barrel. For civilian purposes, a large capacity magazine is unnecessary unless you just can't shoot worth a damn. Most self-defense encounters are settled with two or three shots. For military purposes, I don't think anything has ever matched the 1911 in .45ACP. Nabvy Seals agree with me, it is what they carry in the field. I was with Navy Special Warfare Group in Vietnam, carried the .45 at one time and a nine mil at another. I like the .45. The military switched to the nine mil to be compatible with NATO. It simplifies logistics if all use the same ammo. And the military don't think handguns are very important in warfare anyway. If they think you are going to actually shoot at anything they issue you a rifle.

[inhywymn]

I did not read every reply to your post take this for what its worth from someone who has been on both ends of a gun! If the person you are shooting at does not hit the floor after the first two shoots you should save your money and get a baseball bat!!!! For home defense remember 9mm has a high velocity and if you DO hit who you are shooting at there still is a very good chance that the round will countine through your home possibly hitting a loved one. Semi-auto magizine have a spring in them. Springs get a memory if ammo is not rotated often which could lead to the weapon jamming creating more DUH during your already life or death situation. 4" double action .357 stainless if the shine does'nt get them the round will!! Remember if you dont know how to use it and think twice about using it, it will be use on you and you loved ones. It is alot different knowing and having to use it. Be confident when the time comes or leave it locked up. You wont have the luxury of time when the time comes to fire! usually breathing heavy and in the dark not like a well lit gun range. lol good luck, shoot as often as you can protect your right to bear arms and know how to use them as good as your razor

[DeaconKC]

As you all read through this thread, you will notice the many different opinons. That is why it is a great convenience to go to a range that will let you try different types of handguns, to see what feels best to you.

[Doctor Suarez]

Quick note on springs and memory. I've read a lot about this and what appears to be the case is that springs wear out not from being compressed for long periods, but from being rapidly cycled over and over again. In a quality magazine (which for the 1911 is about $30, a bargain compared to other pistols) leaving them loaded shouldn't be a problem.

[fcohio1]

I did not read every reply to your post take this for what its worth from someone who has been on both ends of a gun! If the person you are shooting at does not hit the floor after the first two shoots you should save your money and get a baseball bat!!!! For home defense remember 9mm has a high velocity and if you DO hit who you are shooting at there still is a very good chance that the round will countine through your home possibly hitting a loved one. Semi-auto magizine have a spring in them. Springs get a memory if ammo is not rotated often which could lead to the weapon jamming creating more DUH during your already life or death situation. 4" double action .357 stainless if the shine does'nt get them the round will!! Remember if you dont know how to use it and think twice about using it, it will be use on you and you loved ones. It is alot different knowing and having to use it. Be confident when the time comes or leave it locked up. You wont have the luxury of time when the time comes to fire! usually breathing heavy and in the dark not like a well lit gun range. lol good luck, shoot as often as you can protect your right to bear arms and know how to use them as good as your razor

Curious, non biased info request.How does shooting often help protect the right to bear arms?

[allawd]

I did not read every reply to your post take this for what its worth from someone who has been on both ends of a gun! If the person you are shooting at does not hit the floor after the first two shoots you should save your money and get a baseball bat!!!! For home defense remember 9mm has a high velocity and if you DO hit who you are shooting at there still is a very good chance that the round will countine through your home possibly hitting a loved one. Semi-auto magizine have a spring in them. Springs get a memory if ammo is not rotated often which could lead to the weapon jamming creating more DUH during your already life or death situation. 4" double action .357 stainless if the shine does'nt get them the round will!! Remember if you dont know how to use it and think twice about using it, it will be use on you and you loved ones. It is alot different knowing and having to use it. Be confident when the time comes or leave it locked up. You wont have the luxury of time when the time comes to fire! usually breathing heavy and in the dark not like a well lit gun range. lol good luck, shoot as often as you can protect your right to bear arms and know how to use them as good as your razor

There is so much out-dated and incorrect information in this post:

Modern hollow-points from 9mm, 357 sig, 40, 45 all penetrate about equally with similar wounding potential.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg

Loaded semi-auto mags will be fine for many years and function for hundreds of load/empty cycles. Springs wear out from cycles not by compression within design limits.

Warning about 9mm overpenetration and recommending 357 magnum is highly illogical. I consider 357 magnum only appropriate for experienced handgunners, it's bright muzzle flash, sound, and recoil make it rather unsuitable for low-light defensive situations.

Good reference for various calibers: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

[desmoface]

I likes me bloody P226
http://www.pbase.com/desmoface/image/74486369.jpg

Steve

[inhywymn]

I should have said from the start of my reply I AM NOT AN EXPERT just someone who has knowledge of shooting and being shot sorry for my imperfections. shoot often and support your right to bear arms, hopefully that term does'nt become outdated or politically incorrect.

[blackfoot]

I have not read all the replies, but here is a little advice IMO.

Revolver versus Semi-Auto
Preference. Revolver are dead reliable. You can also get one small enough for concealed carry easier than an semi. But, looking at semi's, if you get one of the big 5, as my dad called it, you don't have to worry about reliability. I recommend either a Beretta or Glock. This is mostly going to depend on which feels right in your hand. I own a beretta. Actually, a Taurus PT-92. It is the exact same gun but at least a hundred dollars cheaper.

I like the 9mm. This is a cheap round, which is important for target shooting. It is also a fair round for taking someone down, which is the point of self-defense. Use copper-jacketed hollow points. This will do more damage, but not go clean through causing more concerns.

One last thing. My dad was a police officer. When he went through the academy, I was around the age of your son. They advised the cadets to let their children play with their weapons any time we asked. Reason one was, you use every one of these moments to demonstrate and make them demonstrate safety precautions, like checking the chamber even though you watch the person handing it to you check it. Reason two, when you're not there, they have no curiosity and will leave it alone. To this day, I carry out all of the safety precautions without realizing it. People have asked me why I did something and I hadn't even noticed I had done it. And for the record, I always knew where dad's loaded sidearm and back-up pistol were (the back-up weapon was in the drawer next to the bed) but I never once touched it without permission. Then again, that might be because he led e to believe he would use it on me. AND HE WOULD HAVE!

[FLTiger]

I'm mostly ignorant in the ways of firearms--my wife has actually forgotten more than I know about them. What I *can* add, though, is that, if you are married, make sure that your wife is just as comfortable (and capable) with your choice for home defense as you are.

[mraganpbr]

""If you'd go for two, I'd suggest a .22 pistol like a buckmaster along with a larger caliber .45 automatic (I prefer one of the 1911 variants available out there).""

This is the combo I would suggest. Start with the 22

I own a glock 17, and a 34. I also have a Para Ordnance 14/45. I am a big 1911 fan and have owned and carried a few different variants. You can have the reliability of the glocks they will always fire and they will feed any ammo you choose. Some 1911's are picky about he hollow points that you put through them but that is easily remedied with some emry cloth. They also make a .22 conversion kit for the 4" and 5" 1911. This will cut the cost of shooting down. And practicing with the same grip all the time will increase your accuracy. This brings me to my next point. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. If you are going to have it in a lock box by your bed. Practice getting to it. Hitting the buttons in the dark. Lay down in Bed and then try to get it open in a hurry. If you stumble through it do it again but slower. Pick up speed as you get better at it. Learn to draw it from a holster if you are going to carry it. When I was in Law Enforcement, I did 25 presentations from my holster everyday before walking out of the door. Shooting is a perishable skill so make sure you get out and shoot as often as possible. Take your son to a class and then let him shoot your gun.
Just my 2 cents

[TomcatPC]

I'm late to this topic and I have not read everything, but wanted to chime in and say what handgun I like. I'm very far from being an expert and this is just my experience.

I have an entire three handguns in my "collection" at this moment. I don't "carry" them around except when I'm outside city limits at a friend's farm making noise and putting holes in paper, wooden boards, empty tins, etc. My main purpose for having them is mainly for just shooting, and WWII Reenacting, they can be used for defence if need be, but I hope not.

The first is a Post-WWII Commercial Webley & Scott Mk. IV Revolver in .380" calibre (aka .38 S&W or .380"/200). Being 3rd generation English-American, I had to have a Webley, can't explain it really, love this revolver. Ammunition for this one is fairly spendy, so that has got me into reloading, need less to say, this is mainly for the "collection" because I wanted a Webley.

My next revolver is also a .380" Calibre revolver (once again, aka .38 S&W or .380"/200). This one is a S&W M&P "Victory Model" Revolver from WWII that was made for British Forces. This one I got for the "collection" and WWII Reenacting. I love this revolver as well, but as with the Webley, ammo is spendy and a bit under-powdered by today's standards. I would not buy this one for home/self defence. Not because it is not a good revolver, I'll get to that in a minute, but because of the cartridge it fires.

Now, the last revolver I have is basically the same as the last one I mentioned, but it is loaded in the more powerful and much more common .38 Special Calibre.

This one is the S&W M&P Model 10 .38 Special Revolver. I think these have been around since circa 1898-ish? and still being made today, that might say something.

The S&W M&P Model 10 I have is a mid-1960's era Model 10-5, it has a standard weight 4" barrel, I think I paid arond $175 (U.S.) a few years back. I really love this revolver, not too small, not too large, not bad at all with recoil, but just enough to instill in me a feeling of being grateful to be behind the sights and not the other way around...LOL, if that made sense? I'm glad this was my first handgun.

The only thing I wish it could do, would be able to fire the .357 Magnum cartridge, but that is not life or death. I intend to buy a .357 Magnum to have for backpacking one of these days, but that can wait.

I don't think I gave any useful information, other than what I like, but had fun posting anyway. Thanks for letting me ramble on..LOL.
Cheers
Mark

[JohnP]

Well,
I like the Springfield XD and even more the XDM's....hope they have the .45 version out soon.
I know most of the armed forces (US) carry Beretta M9's...a good weapon, of course....but my outfit and a few others I know of have SiG Sauer handguns instead, M-11s. Pretty sure that's a P228 but not positive;
No safety, and a decocker, double action. The weapon will fire if the trigger is pulled, but only if the trigger is pulled.
Of course, if you don't intend to shoot something, your finger has no business inside the trigger guard...and if you do, and it's a person...odds are your LIFE would depend on remembering to take the safety off first. So I can see the logic of it.
planning to make a purchase myself in the near future but am sitting the fence on what to get, of course. I have some knowledge and opinions, but its different once the cash is leaving the wallet, and the weapon isn't issued to you, and exactly the same as the ones given to your buddies.
Went to a gun show today; was wondering if anyone knew anything about the FNH 5.7mm handgun rounds? I know nothing about them other than the manufacturer is respected.
info would be appreciated.

John P.

[Mazeman]

I think if you just accept the fact that you'll eventually get more than one handgun, it'll take some of the pressure off you for this decision.

The choice is largely a personal one.... there are so many options.

My random thoughts, FWIW.
1) A revolver would be a good first choice. Very reliable. S&W is a great choice.
2) Don't go too big. Lots of guys want a massive handgun for some reason. A medium frame is fine.
3) If your gun is locked in the safe, it's pretty worthless for home defense. So either accept that fact, or make it more accessible. They make small handgun safes that can be mounted in your bedroom, and can access within seconds.

[desmoface]

Hi John, I remember when they were performing the trials to decide what the military issue sidearm would be. I remember because I was serving at this time. It was common knowledge at the time that most everyone preferred the sig 226, but the Beretta won out because of it's lower cost and the fact that the weapon had to be produced in the US. Beretta was in a better position to do this than Sig, so they won out.

I'm not saying that the M9 isn't a fine weapon, it's definitely proven itself in service..

Steve


Well,
I like the Springfield XD and even more the XDM's....hope they have the .45 version out soon.
I know most of the armed forces (US) carry Beretta M9's...a good weapon, of course....but my outfit and a few others I know of have SiG Sauer handguns instead, M-11s. Pretty sure that's a P228 but not positive;
John P.

[desmoface]

Good advice. I befriended an ex-navy seal, after my discharge, strangely enough....Anyway, I asked him what his pistola of choice would be if the sh*t hit the fan...I was surprised when he said he'd choose a .357 revolver. I was expecting him to like one of the space aged polymer framed autos.

His reason was that revolvers almost never malfunction, and are for the most part, dead nuts reliable.

Steve


I think if you just accept the fact that you'll eventually get more than one handgun, it'll take some of the pressure off you for this decision.

The choice is largely a personal one.... there are so many options.

My random thoughts, FWIW.
1) A revolver would be a good first choice. Very reliable. S&W is a great choice.
2) Don't go too big. Lots of guys want a massive handgun for some reason. A medium frame is fine.
3) If your gun is locked in the safe, it's pretty worthless for home defense. So either accept that fact, or make it more accessible. They make small handgun safes that can be mounted in your bedroom, and can access within seconds.

[RHVette]

There are basically 5 calibers that will never let you down (i.e. any shop that sells handgun ammo will have them and they have been proven to work); 9x19mm (or Parabellem or Luger), .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum (and .38 Special accordingly), and .44 Remington Magnum*. .357 and .44 are wheelgun calibers and the other three are semi-automatic pistol calibers. The "9 vs. .45" debate will wage on forever, so whatever works for you, use it! I personally like 9mm, as I can get back on target faster than with .45 and I have higher capacity. Like Clint Smith said, "a .357 Magnum miss is still a miss."
Now, moving onto the handguns, themselves. There is a reason why some brands are famous. They work. HK, SIG, S&W, Colt, GLOCK, Walther, Beretta, and others are all very good brands. However, you will pay for the name. Ruger is a very good manufacturer of revolvers that is not as often heard. Kimber and Springfield are two very good companies that make entry level 1911-style handguns. FN Herstal is an extremely good brand that is almost unheard of, even in the gun world, yet they make many of the weapons used by the U.S. military, including the MG58 and the SAW M249.
To be honest, the number of good brands out there is almost mind-boggling and they all feel a little different. So, with that in mind, the course I recommend is to go to a good shop with a good variety and shoot a bunch of different models. Which ones feel good and shoot good? Don't worry about price at this point. If you find out that you shoot a SIG best, but the price tag is a little scary, you can find used ones for almost half-off of new that will shoot just as good. My only recommendation can be to avoid certain brands, namely Hi-Point, Lorcin, Raven, Jennings, Davis, Taurus, and Kel-Tec. Most of these guns are pure garbage. Some, like Kel-Tec and Taurus are okay, but people have reported more malfunctions with these brands than is average. What seems to happen is that Quality Control is hit-or-miss. The good ones are really good, but the bad ones are really bad. There are too many things to learn when first shooting a handgun to also wonder whether or not any flaws or poor results are being caused by bad equipment.
*NOTE: The author does not imply that these are the only effective calibers, only that these are the most popular calibers. There are many other options out there that can be just as (or more) effective (10mm, .41 Rem., 5.7mm, .380 ACP, 7.62x25 Tokarev, .50 AE, .500 S&W Magnum, etc., etc.), but these 5 can be found almost anywhere.

[JohnGalt]

A lot of varied advice in this thread. Some good, some bad, some even worse.



Really bad advice:
1) 410 shotty for Self defense.

2) Bird shot for Self defense. Bird shot is for birdies, not thugs whose intent is to end your life or doing bodily harm to you, your GF/Wife/child.

3) Frangible bullets (Glasers). Other than in a shotgun, taking locks off doors for dynamic entries, these are, well not to put too fine a point on it, Stupid.


Bad Advice:
1) Pistol grip shotgun. No offense to the guy(s?) who recommended this, but you do still have to aim a shotgun. While a PG has a degree of "looks-cool", get a real stock.

2) A shotgun being 'racked' will scare off anyone. Want to bet? If you're picking up a gun, you best be prepared to use it, and use it quickly.

Good Advice:
1) Train - There are a lot of fine firearms out there, but even the best gun will only do what you tell it to. If you can't command your body to react properly, no weapon in the world is going to help you.

2) Try before you buy - Guns aren't cheap (scratch that, Good guns, aren't cheap). Go to a range, rent a few different models and see what works for you. For example. Glock makes a fine gun. I'm not bashing them, but they're just not for me. Grip angle is all off. Again, that is for me. Your mileage WILL vary. Take some on a test drive, then commit to training.

3) Kids - Train them as well. One does not "Drown proof" a child by keeping them away from water. You teach them to swim. Same idea here.

4) Get to know a good gun/self-defense lawyer ahead of time. Put them on speed dial on your home phones, and cell.

5) If, "God forbid" you ever have to use your weapon, NEVER speak to the police. Tell them you want to cooperate, were afraid for your life, but you are too shaken up at the moment and must speak to your attorney first. You'll want to chat, you'll want to explain yourself and justify what just happened. You must stomp that impulse into the ground. The sad truth is police are NOT your friends, they are there to put butts in cells and don't mind if it is yours. Think I'm being "paranoid"? Ask a cop what his Union tells them to do when they're involved in a shooting.

6) Shotguns are great for home defense, providing they are 12-gauge and loaded up with 00 buck shot.

7) Keep it loaded and ready to go. You have nothing more than an expensive club in your hand if the gun is unloaded in the bedroom and the bullets are locked in a case in the closet by the front door.

8) If your state allows it, get your carry permit and treat your firearm like your American Express card. "Don't leave home without it"
___________________

Personally, I carry a Springfield 1911 daily, and keep it on my bed's headboard at night.

[Mazeman]

Excellent advice MrGalt.

The part about never speaking to the cops is very important.

If you're unconvinced of this, and have some time, here are a couple videos (http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html) that will convince you.

"In a brilliant pair of videos, , Prof. James Duane of the Regent University School of Law and Officer George Bruch of the Virginia Beach Police Department present a forceful case for never, ever, ever speaking to the police without your lawyer present. Ever. Never, never, never"

[DeaconKC]

JG, excellent advice all around.

[stobes21]

...6) Shotguns are great for home defense, providing they are 12-gauge and loaded up with 00 buck shot....

I agree with everything you said, except I'd open the above statement to include 20 gauge shotguns and #1, 0, and 000 buckshot as well as slugs.

Mazeman posted an excellent video that I'd recommend everyone watch, regardless of their views on guns.

If I ever find myself in the aftermath of a self defense shooting I will call 911, say "Please send an ambulance to (my location), a person has been shot." I will then call my lawyer while I wait for the police to arrive. When they do I will cooperate but refuse to answer any questions until my lawyer arrives and I speak to him.

[JohnP]

Hi John, I remember when they were performing the trials to decide what the military issue sidearm would be. I remember because I was serving at this time. It was common knowledge at the time that most everyone preferred the sig 226, but the Beretta won out because of it's lower cost and the fact that the weapon had to be produced in the US. Beretta was in a better position to do this than Sig, so they won out.

I'm not saying that the M9 isn't a fine weapon, it's definitely proven itself in service..

Steve

Steve, I think you might be right. I know ours are M11's, but they might in fact be P226's. Pretty sure ours were hand me downs from one of the SEAL teams who were probably getting some new space gun (we had 1911's before that....everyone else had M9's). I think most of them I saw over there (2 tours so far) also still carry SiGs, while Army types have that sweet Mk23.
SiGs are great except most of the "Gucci" gear available for private purchase over there is keyed to the much more common M9. Anyway, 'nuff about work guns, I'm looking for something for myself at this point, which opens up a lot more possibilities. The same company which makes our M240's, M249's, and the new Winchester model 70's...all excellent firearms...is making a sidearm as well as a subgun in 5.7, but apparently I wasn't paying attention when the round came out and as a result know very little about it or its performance. Anyone with knowledge or experience feel free to speak up...
Otherwise, the XDM in 9...carries 19+1 rounds, not sure if .40 is that much better or not, or even if I should wait for the XDM .45...
or get something else entirely. I'm not made of money or I'd just get several...
Also considering something suppressed (that's legal where I live, although the federal red tape hoops still have to be complied with) just for the fun of it.

I'm rambling. Any info about the 5.7 rounds is welcome...I'm very curious about it and it's performance.

John P.

[DeaconKC]

FNs new round is a little hotter than a .22 Magnum. Designed for rear eschelon/handgun usage. Ive heard mixed reviews on it's accuracy.

[desmoface]

Very very cool pistola, JohnP. I've liked these since they were first announced; definitely wouldn't want to be on the bidness end of this beast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBtvpkqYB4E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov8lQgDlgeE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN34XWXDbK8&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wSHkIQEAuU&feature=channel

Steve

[RHVette]

If you buy the 5.7mm, you'll also be buying a reloading press before too long. It's pretty expensive, around $0.50/shot. In terms of terminal ballistics, I've heard mixed reviews. It's got a lot of energy, and it penetrates well. In fact, some say it penetrates a little too well and is prone to over-penetration. It's a good round, but it isn't something I would carry. There just really isn't enough info out about it yet.

[allawd]

If you buy the 5.7mm, you'll also be buying a reloading press before too long. It's pretty expensive, around $0.50/shot. In terms of terminal ballistics, I've heard mixed reviews. It's got a lot of energy, and it penetrates well. In fact, some say it penetrates a little too well and is prone to over-penetration. It's a good round, but it isn't something I would carry. There just really isn't enough info out about it yet.

I also read somewhere that the best loading of 5.7mm is not sold to civilians. Might want to check up on that.

[DeaconKC]

The military loading, designed to defeat body armor, is not available to civilians in the US.

[SRock]

If you buy the 5.7mm, you'll also be buying a reloading press before too long. It's pretty expensive, around $0.50/shot. In terms of terminal ballistics, I've heard mixed reviews. It's got a lot of energy, and it penetrates well. In fact, some say it penetrates a little too well and is prone to over-penetration. It's a good round, but it isn't something I would carry. There just really isn't enough info out about it yet.

This is actually a sweet shooting pistol. The Pakistani Air Force cops use these. A couple of years ago we hosted a competition they attended. I was smoking targets at distances 3-4 times what the average person can hope to hit with a GI M9.


The military loading, designed to defeat body armor, is not available to civilians in the US.

You are correct, but having fired a few of this I can tell you it is an amazing round. I'm grateful that they aren't available to civilians!

[hillikus]

Can't help but to chime in. Everything is from my personal experience.

Out of all the handguns I have ever shot, the most reliable and easily carried one is my current Glock model 23. Would I suggest it for someone looking for a .40 caliber, yes, but for someone just looking for a new gun I'd have to suggest the Glock model 19. The Glock 19 is the exact same size as the G23 however it is the 9mm version. The G23 is notoriously snappy and not necessarily easy for some people to shoot, but the size, for me, is simply perfect. What I would suggest though is not to get a 9mm because the price of ammo but get the G19 and a .22 conversion kit such as Advantage Arms. I have the Advantage Arms conversion for my G23(same as the one for G19) and it has paid for itself a few times over as far as ammo savings.

I also have curious little ones running around and I have had a completely awesome experience with a Gunvault 2000 Deluxe. I had the latch mechanism fail on my original one my wife bought me and within days they had a brand new one at my doorstep with no questions asked and a shipping label for the old one. Great product and wonderful customer service. It has 4 buttons on top for your fingertips and can be opened in seconds. I would bet I can go from sleep to loaded gun and flashlight in just about 4 seconds with very little practice.

Again this is all personal experience but I thought it might be worth it to share. I have thousands of rounds through my Glock and I have yet to see a failure. When I pull the trigger it is going to go bang and I would not question that for a minute. Every single other gun I have shot(XDs, 1911s, and revolvers) has left me wondering. Hope this helps and sorry for joining this thread late.

[DS/B MCS]

A lot of varied advice in this thread. Some good, some bad, some even worse.



Really bad advice:
1) 410 shotty for Self defense.

2) Bird shot for Self defense. Bird shot is for birdies, not thugs whose intent is to end your life or doing bodily harm to you, your GF/Wife/child.

3) Frangible bullets (Glasers). Other than in a shotgun, taking locks off doors for dynamic entries, these are, well not to put too fine a point on it, Stupid.


Bad Advice:
1) Pistol grip shotgun. No offense to the guy(s?) who recommended this, but you do still have to aim a shotgun. While a PG has a degree of "looks-cool", get a real stock.

2) A shotgun being 'racked' will scare off anyone. Want to bet? If you're picking up a gun, you best be prepared to use it, and use it quickly.

Good Advice:
1) Train - There are a lot of fine firearms out there, but even the best gun will only do what you tell it to. If you can't command your body to react properly, no weapon in the world is going to help you.

2) Try before you buy - Guns aren't cheap (scratch that, Good guns, aren't cheap). Go to a range, rent a few different models and see what works for you. For example. Glock makes a fine gun. I'm not bashing them, but they're just not for me. Grip angle is all off. Again, that is for me. Your mileage WILL vary. Take some on a test drive, then commit to training.

3) Kids - Train them as well. One does not "Drown proof" a child by keeping them away from water. You teach them to swim. Same idea here.

4) Get to know a good gun/self-defense lawyer ahead of time. Put them on speed dial on your home phones, and cell.

5) If, "God forbid" you ever have to use your weapon, NEVER speak to the police. Tell them you want to cooperate, were afraid for your life, but you are too shaken up at the moment and must speak to your attorney first. You'll want to chat, you'll want to explain yourself and justify what just happened. You must stomp that impulse into the ground. The sad truth is police are NOT your friends, they are there to put butts in cells and don't mind if it is yours. Think I'm being "paranoid"? Ask a cop what his Union tells them to do when they're involved in a shooting.

6) Shotguns are great for home defense, providing they are 12-gauge and loaded up with 00 buck shot.

7) Keep it loaded and ready to go. You have nothing more than an expensive club in your hand if the gun is unloaded in the bedroom and the bullets are locked in a case in the closet by the front door.

8) If your state allows it, get your carry permit and treat your firearm like your American Express card. "Don't leave home without it"
___________________

Personally, I carry a Springfield 1911 daily, and keep it on my bed's headboard at night.

GREAT post :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[JohnGalt]

GREAT post :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks :)

I didn't think there would be this many firearm fans when I signed up here. Maybe we need a Gun-Porn thread started :-D

"The Guns of Badger and Blade"

[desmoface]

Just got this in an e-mail from Sig:
http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/classicoffer.aspx

These don't suck:
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=37&productid=226
http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/220-Carry-SAS-Detail_L1.jpg

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=163
http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P229-Elite-detail-L.jpg

I could be very happy with this one :drool:
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=87
http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P229-Equinox-detail-L.jpg

If your still looking for a pistola, may be of interest.

Steve

[stobes21]

I love the sigs with the rosewood grips. A 239 or 220 with those is definitely on my future buys list.

[JohnP]

I ended up getting the FN FNP 9mm USG this time around, and double checked, the sidearms at the squadron are SiG P228's, also 9mm.
Have a feeling it won't be the last I buy, either...just found out this wonderful state is an instant background check state, after years being stationed in California, where just about everything is illegal, it was quite nice being able to get all the checks done right away.
The one I got: FN FNP 9mm USG:(pic from www.fnhusa.com


http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0127mb.png
My unit issues these: SiG 228/M11 (photo at www.remtek.com)
http://www.remtek.com/arms/sig/model/228/228.gif

John P.

[desmoface]

Hi John, you made a wise purchasing decision. I once handled a browning (FN) highpower and was very pleased with it. Also, FN has made/designed some of the finest, most prolific firearms the world has seen. One of my fav's is their FAL, fondly known as the "The Free Worlds Right Arm."
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/446/31876687gc8.jpg

Enjoy.

Steve

[JohnP]

Steve,
This is bad, real bad...I like this little FNP plenty, but am already looking to buy more; handguns are a relatively new interest for me (I've always been into rifles...) but since you mentioned the FAL...
Our M240's are also made by FN, but in their South Carolina plant, apparently alongside the new Winchester model 70's.
I liked our M60's when we had them also, but even though it's an older design, the M240 walks circles around it with regard to reliability. The thing just works, and even when it does have issues, there's nothing that goes wrong with it that I can't fix in the dark by feel, and be shooting again in seconds.
If the FNP's are anywhere close I'm going to be really happy with it. It's a bonus that my wife likes it as well, she fired it with me at the range the first day...
This sucks, just another addiction disorder...I'm already thinking about what to get next in a few paydays. I'm still intrigued by that 5.7, but its a lot to pay for a sidearm that would be a long range plinker....


John P.

[desmoface]

I would love to have an FAL and came close to buying one several times..just couldn't pull the trigger (no pun intended) as I have no where close by to shoot it, and it's expensive. The FAL and Gallils/valmet's are very high on my short list of arms I'd like to get. Of course, the Gallils/valmet's are next to impossible to get here..

Steve

[JohnGalt]

I would love to have an FAL and came close to buying one several times..just couldn't pull the trigger (no pun intended) as I have no where close by to shoot it, and it's expensive. The FAL and Gallils/valmet's are very high on my short list of arms I'd like to get. Of course, the Gallils/valmet's are next to impossible to get here..

Steve

Here's my FAL
http://i40.tinypic.com/34irb00.jpg

I've had that and a parts kit sitting in my safe for ~4 years now. You'd think I'd get busy building the darn thing wouldn't you.

[DeaconKC]

JG, when you go to build it, talk to Burner, one of the Mods at www.surplusrifleforum.com great guy. He has built several.

[desmoface]

Hi John, I was seriously considering a DSArms FAL, but convinced myself it would just sit and gather dust... Ironically, I was flipping through the channels this evening and I came upon that old move "Heat" with Al Pacino and Robert Deniro, lots of FAL love in that movie :biggrin:
http://www.dsarms.com/images/SA58STD.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrSWpWi5eEs


Steve

[JohnGalt]

JG, when you go to build it, talk to Burner, one of the Mods at www.surplusrifleforum.com great guy. He has built several.

I'll have to look him up. The mounting the bbrl to the reciever and headspacing is what's been making me procrastinate. I've rebuilt and worked on enough other firearms to be fine with the rest of the work, but that one step is a bit intimidating.



Hi John, I was seriously considering a DSArms FAL, but convinced myself it would just sit and gather dust... Ironically, I was flipping through the channels this evening and I came upon that old move "Heat" with Al Pacino and Robert Deniro, lots of FAL love in that movie :biggrin:

That receiver is a DSA. I'll fess up. It was "Heat" that made me want the FAL in the first place. Great flick :-D Shooting a friend of a friend's FAL sealed the deal and I snapped up a parts kit wayyy back when they were a dime a dozen. It took me about 2 years to get around to ordering the receiver, and.... welll procrastinating ever since ;)

[JohnP]

I'm pretty sure I saw at least a handful of those at the gun show last week...
Not sure how it is in the various places our members live in, having been stationed for years in California I know some of them can be full of the nicest people while being essentially small communist countries...
Class III weapons are legal in Virginia, so after seeing bolt action AR-15's with flash hiders sawed off or magazine wells welded shut to be "California legal" it was an eye opener (in a good way) to see regular, unmolested firearms again, as well as a few automatic weapons and such...
We didn't buy my FN there, still had too many questions...but could've saved a good bit.

John P.

[desmoface]

JG, your more of a man than me. I don't have the technical ability to build a gun from scratch; my hat's off to you.

I actually went as far as buying a vhs video on the FAL. It basically went into tearing it down and putting it back together for cleaning, not as in depth as fully ripping it apart down to parade rest, though. The video went into adjusting the gas system for firing and that sort of stuff. At the end they take them out and fire them full auto, of course, they are a handful in full auto LOL.

DSA is recognized as one of the best suppliers, I believe they bought the actual blueprints and even some of the machines from an actual FAL factory. I forget the entire story, but I was researching it pretty intensely when I was considering the purchase. I also learned that there is some junk out there, but it sounds like you got a solid package with that dsa receiver.

Keep us updated, a nice pictorial of your build would be nice :smile: Good luck.

Steve

Edit: Here is the actual video I bought, I stand corrected, I believe it does illustrate how to build it from scratch: http://www.americangunsmith.com/view.php?id=38 The end of this clip is where they shoot them full auto..check the guy out shooting two of them full auto at the same time...it's all he can do to stay on his feet LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJRuTPiY6Ss



I'll have to look him up. The mounting the bbrl to the reciever and headspacing is what's been making me procrastinate. I've rebuilt and worked on enough other firearms to be fine with the rest of the work, but that one step is a bit intimidating.




That receiver is a DSA. I'll fess up. It was "Heat" that made me want the FAL in the first place. Great flick :-D Shooting a friend of a friend's FAL sealed the deal and I snapped up a parts kit wayyy back when they were a dime a dozen. It took me about 2 years to get around to ordering the receiver, and.... welll procrastinating ever since ;)