Do you think these are the original scales?

[Davide]

Here is a recent purchase. I am going to restore it. Do you guys think these are the original scales? If they are, I might try to salvage the inserts.

[Navy Chief]

I don't know if they are original or not, but I do like them and think that it may be worth the time to try to save them, just my .02..

[Antique Hoosier]

...it may be worth the time to try to save them...

EXACTLY what I just pm'd this member.... might as well restore the entire blade and scales keeping it intact. Super unique piece!

[Davide]

The scales are cracked on the back, and warped really badly. There is also a huge chip on one of the edges.

Do you all still think it is worth the time (given my description and no additional pics)?

This is my first restoration by the way...

One more thing: I just lightly sanded the scales, and the dust that comes off seems to be whitish, and it smells a little "off" when I put my nose to it. Does this sound like the properties of bone? (or am I just sanding off some top coat?)

[gunner6477]

Two words come to mind when looking at your pics...Bill Ellis

I'd get his opinion/help before doing ANYTHING to that beautiful razor.

[Navy Chief]

+1


Two words come to mind when looking at your pics...Bill Ellis

I'd get his opinion/help before doing ANYTHING to that beautiful razor.

[tpoof]

Ya, pretty much what they said.
but I think the white powder might be the old finish coming off those scales...
hard to tell really in the pic.
she's a beauty and is going to be sweet all right!
You got some good stuff going on , old razors, hones... :wink:
once again... lucky dog!

[BillEllis]

David...

Please don't take offense. This razor is going to take some considerable experience to restore. Additionally, this is one of those razors that should be left in its original condition unless you really are good at restorations. You will not be able to successfully remove the inlays from the horn scales without ruining them.

I think you would be better off finding something else to work on, especially considering that this is a first attempt at doing the work.

[Davide]

No offense taken whatsoever. You would have to say much worse to offend me!

This is my stance: I didn't pay very much for the thing since it was in such bad shape - Deep pitting, cracked, chipped and warped scales, and general lousy shape. Even though ruining it would be a pity, I have very little to loose, and much to learn in the process. If the cost of learning is the death of this razor, so be it. There are plenty others out there (waiting for me to destroy :001_smile).

Having said that, if anybody has some tips that may help to avoid the (inevitable?) decimation of this poor razor, they are welcome and appreciated...

[gunner6477]

No offense taken whatsoever. You would have to say much worse to offend me!

This is my stance: I didn't pay very much for the thing since it was in such bad shape - Deep pitting, cracked, chipped and warped scales, and general lousy shape. Even though ruining it would be a pity, I have very little to loose, and much to learn in the process. If the cost of learning is the death of this razor, so be it. There are plenty others out there (waiting for me to destroy :001_smile).

Having said that, if anybody has some tips that may help to avoid the (inevitable?) decimation of this poor razor, they are welcome and appreciated...

my 2 cents worth...If you are looking to practice your resto skills, find something not as nice to practice on. Museum conservators would not think about "learning" or practicing their craft on the Mona Lisa. IMO, that razor is too nice to practice on and it would be a shame if it were destroyed.

[Limey]

That razor is in great shape compared to many that I have found and worked on plus that blade and scales go great together. How about a few more pictures of the scales so we can see the condition of those better and to see the flaws that you mentioned?

[professorchaos]

That is a damn cool razor!

[Davide]

I do appreciate the stance that it is a pity to destroy such a nice blade. I can hear the groans and gasps of incredulity that are coming from the readers of this thread. I do understand.

There are a few things, however that I must consider:

1) I would never pay anybody to do the work for a custom restore job. There is no shortage of great razors on B&B and eBay that are in far better shape for much less than a restore would cost.

2) If I destroy the blade, it is NOT the end of the world. It is a true pity if this happens, but if this blade gets ruined, and this is the most horrible thing that happens to me this year, I will consider myself quite fortunate.

3) I started on the blade two days ago! In fact, it is probably already ruined! (the part about it being ruined is a joke)

[Haiku]

Were I thinking along the lines that you are, I would remove the blade from the scales and otherwise not touch them.

That said, what I would do is buy a $2.00 razor off the 'bay or from a junk store and work up some restoration techniques. I wouldn't start on a razor that has the kind of potential that this one seems to have.

[Aevum]

those skales are rotten, i doubt you can fix them,
its a problem if wooden skales are damaged or poorly sealed, remember, its exposed to water and soap on a daily basis, if the seal failes, the wood will rott,

[Davide]

I also thought they were goners...

[BillEllis]

I can hear the groans and gasps of incredulity that are coming from the readers of this thread. I do understand.
I'm gonna have to say, David, that I don't think I quite agree with your take on the understanding part.

There are times when we can all look back on our past actions and say to ourselves, "Man, that really wasn't the smartest thing I ever did". Some day this specific "restoration", as you call it, will be one of those instances that should very likely make that list of things.

That was not a junk razor. It WAS actually a semi-valuable razor from the very early 1800's. We're talking Davy Crockett days. I would gladly have traded you a nice shave-ready razor for it. You're right, though. It's not the end of the world... just the unnecessary end for a nice piece of history.

[Davide]

I must say that I have not had a single straight edge shave and only three DE shaves. I am obviously rather new to the wet shaving arena. I have recently spent hours reading this board, bought a ton of cremes, soaps, AS, etc... I also bought two razors on eBay for bargain a basement price and even the Bill Ellis razor restoration CD. I must admit that I was a little bit more excited about the whole wet shaving venture before this thread...

I picked the razors that I bought based on the aesthetics of the razors and the fact that they were banged up, inexpensive, and therefore "restoration" (as Bill likes to put in quotes when referring to my actions) candidates. I am not going to argue against the destroying a piece of history part - I clearly may have to some extent. I also know that this razor has likely spent the last 100 years going unused, unseen, and likely forgotten to rust in some attic box. It very well may have lost some monetary value from a collector's perspective due to my lack of restoration competence. I guarantee it has. I am at least going to clean it up, use it, and appreciate a shave from a 200 year old razor that I brought back into serviceable condition with nothing but my own sweat.

The last thing...I didn't ask if it was a valuable razor and THEN go ahead and plow through the thing with a blatant disregard for its historical value. I bought a junker on ebay, started "restoring" it, and THEN asked a question about the scales. What done is done and I can't change that. It has been on my work bench for the last 72 hours. Had I posted a thread entitled "Should I use this razor as a practice toy?" and got a similar response to that of above, then likely this razor would be in a different state than it is now. Perhaps it would be in an envelope on its way to Bill's house. Who knows?

I will post some picks of my other razor that I have yet to touch - Perhaps there will be some strong opinions regarding that one too (probably not...). Only one way to find out...

[Limey]

Another nice looking Sheffield grind blade. You've done well with your first two pickups. Good luck and don't be put off by any posts here. Press on with your way of doing things and post the final results for us to be jealous of!

[Davide]

Thank you for that post Limey ;-)

[BillEllis]

Most folks on these boards use straight razors for the practical aspect of shaving with them. Just from observing over the past couple of years, I believe most of the crowd doesn't much care about a razor's collectibility anywhere near as much as being able to use it. I'm not worried about changing that... there are much more important battles to fight.

Whatever I say about collectibles pretty much goes in one end of the USB connector and out the other. That doesn't mean a few of the boys wouldn't want to learn something about a potentially valuable razor from time to time, which is why I add my opinion to some discussions.

There are three categories regarding the ownership of straight razors

Those who are only interested in shaving with them while endorsing varying degrees for the desired level of "bling" each razor should have.
Those who only collect and think it is dang near a sin even to put the blade on a hone again.
Those who try to combine the two. I happen to be in this category and think that there are some razors worthy of more attention than others. The first one you gave a pic of is one of them. This second razor does not have anywhere near the value the first one used to, so it is a perfect candidate for a restoration project.I wasn't trying to bust your chops, David. I was merely answering the questions you asked of me in an email. I'm one of those boys who will tell it like it is, especially when I'm asked. Sorry if the answer was a mite harsh for you.

[Davide]

It was not too harsh. Just a valid opinion of a collector and craftsman who knows more about razors than I ever will. I appreciate candor more than most. Unfortunately for historians, by the time I posted the question about the scales, I had already started on the steel. I Can't turn back the clock. I will absolutely enjoy the razor for what it is. Having said that, the scales are untouched. What is your suggestion for the fate of those things?

BTW, what do you feel the first razor was worth? Just so I can kick myself...

[BillEllis]

It was not too harsh. Just a valid opinion of a collector and craftsman who knows more about razors than I ever will. I appreciate candor more than most. Unfortunately for historians, by the time I posted the question about the scales, I had already started on the steel. I Can't turn back the clock. I will absolutely enjoy the razor for what it is. Having said that, the scales are untouched. What is your suggestion for the fate of those things?

BTW, what do you feel the first razor was worth? Just so I can kick myself...With a proper restoration?


I'm thinkin' $350 give or take $50

with pristine scales and that blade... over $600


You would still have had to sit on it until the right collector came along. Some of us are "razored out".

[Davide]

When I am finished, I will send you an email of the pic, so you can admire the $19.95 version :001_smile

[JEEP]

Hmmm....

I'll give you another point of view; I'm not a collector of straights (in fact I have never used one and I have given away the few I have ever owned). But, I hold a BA in archaeology, therefore handeling historical artefacts is what I am trained to do. From a professional point of view I would strongly warn against tampering with a (relatively) well preserved artefact of that age, I'm not talking $ here - I'm talking historic value, something that cannot be measured. This razor is most likely not a mass produced item, therefore when you "destroy" it there may be no more left.

As many people already has stated; there are many other "common" razors to be found on the cheap to be tampering around with.


Regards.

Jakob

[Davide]

I agree with everybody about this razor from both a monetary and historical point of view. I may have thrown out some alternative opinions, but at no point have I personally disagreed with any others presented. That is because I don't. The problem is that I started playing with the blade days before I realized it had any historical value whatsoever. Unless we can petition Superman to fly around the earth really fast so that we can go back a few days before I took a Dremel to it, this discussion is somewhat moot.

I will sum up this thread:

Thread title: "Do you think these are the original scales?"
Answer: Yes

Group consensus: This is a valuable antique razor with both pecuniary and historical value. It probably should not be restored or only restored by an expert.

Problem: I started making it shiny days ago because I assumed it was worth what I paid for it which was less than a package of cartridge razors.

SOLUTION: If anybody who is a restoration expert would like to try to mitigate the damage I have done, and go ahead and restore the razor properly, perhaps some historical value can be salvaged. I have already sent an email to Bill Ellis regarding this last point. If there are other professional razor restoration experts who read this, please PM me with any proposed solutions to help save a piece of history.

[gunner6477]

SOLUTION: If anybody who is a restoration expert would like to try to mitigate the damage I have done, and go ahead and restore the razor properly, perhaps some historical value can be salvaged. I have already sent an email to Bill Ellis regarding this last point. If there are other professional razor restoration experts who read this, please PM me with any proposed solutions to help save a piece of history.


BRAVO! Well Done Davide! I cannot wait to see how it turns out.:001_smile

[professorchaos]

I am a straight razor user, not a collector. However, I do like to keep razors in as pristine a condition as possible. For instance, when I can clean one up without re-pinning it, I will. Does that mean I wouldn't remove the pins, sand out pits and put a mirror finish on it? Absolutely not. These are straight razors, designed and made to shave. And guess what? They do a damn fine job of it. Whats more: we are wet shavers. Why condemn such a useful item with plenty of life left to a collector's display for eternity?

The bottom line is that it is your razor, do with it as you please. Naturally, I would like to see it remain as true to original as possible. But get it cleaned up and/or restored, honed and learn to use it. Personally, I find breathing new life into and using these old razors far, far more rewarding than watching them collect dust. If, in the meantime, a collector comes along and can tempt you to part with it...well, like I said, it is your razor.

[tpoof]

I am a straight razor user, not a collector. However, I do like to keep razors in as pristine a condition as possible. For instance, when I can clean one up without re-pinning it, I will. Does that mean I wouldn't remove the pins, sand out pits and put a mirror finish on it? Absolutely not. These are straight razors, designed and made to shave. And guess what? They do a damn fine job of it. Whats more: we are wet shavers. Why condemn such a useful item with plenty of life left to a collector's display for eternity?

The bottom line is that it is your razor, do with it as you please. Naturally, I would like to see it remain as true to original as possible. But get it cleaned up and/or restored, honed and learn to use it. Personally, I find breathing new life into and using these old razors far, far more rewarding than watching them collect dust. If, in the meantime, a collector comes along and can tempt you to part with it...well, like I said, it is your razor.
My thoughts exactly!
Good for you to have the eye to pick out treasures from among the piles...
also good move offering it back up for those who may want to restore the razor to its former splendor and appease the razor gurus...:cool:

[Davide]

Thank you tpoof, prof, and gunner...