Shipping to Canada

[Rik]

Greetings All,

Please check out the new shipping policies to Canada in the BBDC FAQ. (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4294) Specifically Phase 6: Shipping.

[Queen of Blades]

Is it just me, or is the link wrong?

[Mama Bear]

I am increasingly frustrated with shipping to Canada. I do it and am glad to do it, but why do they have to charge so much.....! Canada is closer to me than most of the States... :thumbdown

Bear Hugs,

Sue (Mama Bear)

[Queen of Blades]

I am increasingly frustrated with shipping to Canada. I do it and am glad to do it, but why do they have to charge so much.....! Canada is closer to me than most of the States... :thumbdown

Bear Hugs,

Sue (Mama Bear)

Just drive across the border, and ship the stuff, Sue. It probably costs less that way.

Or you could just offer door-to-door service. :wink:

[leesrazors]

Hi All: I ship to Canada almost daily. Anything from my site and all Simpson brushes can be shipped no problem!
Thank you,
Lee

[Rik]

Here's Canada Post's Policy (http://www.canadapost.ca/rates/2007/pdf/Parcel_Service_Guide-e.pdf)as of 9-18-06 and is what was referenced in the confiscation of the cologne. The point was very clearly made that future decants would be confiscated as well. So it's UPS and FedEx only in the future.

[scarface]

I ordered a bottle of Le Male cologne from the states and it was promptly confiscated and "destroyed" which means one of their customs officers is smelling pretty darn nice.

[Suzuki]

You didn't hear this from me, but anyone shipping cologne or A/S may want to consider labelling the products as "Cosmetic Supplies" or "Cosmetic Samples".

I've done this and had vendors do this on several occasions without problems.

The funny thing is, I actually packed a parcel in front of the Canada Post attendant with a large bottle of A/S and she didn't blink an eye!

I'm not guaranteeing anything, YMMV, take this with a grain of salt and at your own peril, caveat emptor, etc. but, I'm just saying...

[vox_rox]

Yeah, I've ranted about this more than once, so I'm not going to go into it again here. I have first hand experience with our Customs and Excise nazis and their peculiar ways. Thank goodness that poeple like Lee's and Mama Bear's (and others) actually ship up here. In the long run, it's us that live here that pay the extra $$$ and/or never get our orders.

Viva NAFTA :thumbdown :thumbdown

On the other side of the coin, I've never had a problem with FedEx, it just costs a bit more.

Peace,

Pierre

[Rik]

You didn't hear this from me, but anyone shipping cologne or A/S may want to consider labelling the products as "Cosmetic Supplies" or "Cosmetic Samples".

I've done this and had vendors do this on several occasions without problems.

The funny thing is, I actually packed a parcel in front of the Canada Post attendant with a large bottle of A/S and she didn't blink an eye!

I'm not guaranteeing anything, YMMV, take this with a grain of salt and at your own peril, caveat emptor, etc. but, I'm just saying...
I'm afraid labeling packages in this manner have zero effect for packages from the US to Canada . A member received a package labeled as above and was charged $48 CDN for shipping and brokerage fees even though it was only $11 US to ship.

If the Canadian government refuses to ship decants via their postal service and tack on exorbitant fees to UPS and Fedex shipments I really don't know what to do that would not be breaking the law. It's frustrating, if the label isn't just so including having Canada in all upper case it gets rejected at the border. As another member concisely summed it up: "It really seems that (at least from the Canadian side) there is an attempt to dis-inhibit transactions/interactions between individuals." Sorry folks. :frown:

[Doc4]

Greetings All,

Please check out the new shipping policies to Canada in the BBDC FAQ. (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4294) Specifically Phase 6: Shipping.

"Dangerous substance"?? I must have missed the Axe decant :ohmy:

but seriously ... sheesh what a bunch of idiots we have running things up here. Argh.

But I am right in assuming that decants still can come to Canada, but by courier, not mail?

[Sue]

Nothing is supposed to ship by air containing 'any' alcohol unless the shipper can prove the flashpoint threshold. That means no Priority Mail, and no First Class mail with USPS. I checked with international UPS and they say no thanks. I just called FedEx international (1.800.463.3339) and the flash point is 141 degrees F. Again with FedEx you have to prove the flash point. In the States it is federal law, not sure about others. The penalties are severe.

The right of inspection is held by the carriers, customs and also any commercial airlines that carry mail as freight.

Rik, the link is not working for me either.
Sue

[Dennis]

What about DHL? They seem to ship anything from my experiences...

Dennis

[Sue]

Dennis,
Good suggestion, I just called them. I was transferred to their HazMat ppl at 866.588.2002

I was told all carriers/forwarders are held to the same federal restrictions as the next guy. As far as shipping out of the country it is a definate NO as at some point it would have to be in the air.

So still no products containing alcohol will be shipped internationally by SCS, no exceptions. Those products with an alcohol content will continue to be shipped by ground but only domestically. Anything non-alcohol is not an issue. Sue

[Doc4]

Sucks to be me! :blink:

[Areler67]

I think it depend from states to states never saw a website who refused to ship AS or cologne....and what about people with suitcase with AS or cosmetics in it?
DHL and Deutsche post delivered AS to me without any problems....

[Sue]

I don't know about anyone else, maybe it wasn't known what was inside? I can only speak for myself and SCS. I know it is against the law. Those laws are part of our society and I will not knowingly break them.

For my business I'd love to ship them anywhere and everywhere. If you are really thinking of shipping these type items yourself you may wish to read some of the following articles first.
Sue

These concern some innocent hairspray, nailpolish and three, count 'em 3 Bic lighters and a few other misc. shipments:
.......
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $60,000 civil penalty against
Dreamworks SKG of Glendale, CA, for
allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
The FAA alleges that on April 25, 2002,
Dreamworks improperly offered a
fiberboard box containing three butane
lighters, which contain flammable gas,
to Federal Express (FedEx) for
transportation by air. Ground handling
employees at the FedEx sort facility in
Memphis, TN discovered the shipment
leaking.
.......................................
FAA Proposes $70,000 Penalty Against Aveda Esthetique for Hazmat Violations
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $70,000 civil penalty against
Aveda Esthetique of McLean, VA, for
allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
The FAA alleges that on November 26,
2000, Aveda Esthetique improperly
offered a fiberboard box containing 11,
5.5-ounce bottles of Aveda Exfoliant
and 17, 1.7-ounce containers of Aveda
Witch Hazel Hair Spray, both flammable
liquids, to United Parcel Service (UPS)
for transportation by air. Ground
handling employees at the UPS sort
facility in Louisville, KY, discovered
the shipment leaking.
.................................................. ....
FAA Proposes $220,000 Penalty Against Expert-Med for Hazmat Violations
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $220,000 civil penalty against
Expert-Med, Inc. of Ormond Beach, FL,
for allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
.................................................. .........
FAA Proposes $51,000 Penalty Against Nova Chemicals for Hazmat Violations

The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $51,000 civil penalty against
Nova Chemicals, Inc. of Monaca, PA, for
allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
The FAA alleges that on February 22,
2002, Nova Chemicals improperly offered
a fiberboard box containing a five-
pound bag of polymeric beads, a
hazardous material, to United Parcel
Service (UPS) for transportation by
air. Ground handling employees at the
UPS sort facility in Louisville, KY,
discovered the shipment leaking.
.................................................. .
FAA Proposes $51,000 Penalty Against Tristar Corporation for Hazmat Violations
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $51,000 civil penalty against
Tristar Corporation of San Antonio, TX,
for allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
The FAA alleges that on December 18,
2000, Tristar improperly offered a
fiberboard box containing four spray
bottles and four aerosol cans of
perfumery products, all flammable
liquids, to United Parcel Service (UPS)
for transportation by air. Ground
handling employees at the UPS sort
facility in Louisville, KY, discovered
the shipment.
.................................................. ..........
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess an $84,000 civil penalty against
Honeywell, Inc. of Phoenix, AZ, for
allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
The FAA alleges that on March 25, 2001,
Honeywell improperly offered a
fiberboard box containing one fuel
control unit holding aviation fuel, a
flammable liquid, to United Parcel
Service (UPS) for transportation by
air. Ground handling employees at the
UPS sort facility in Louisville, KY,
discovered the shipment leaking.
.................................................. ........
FAA Proposes $53,550 Penalty Against Coty US for Hazmat Violations
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $53,550 civil penalty against
Coty US LLC of New York, NY, for
allegedly violating Department of
Transportation hazardous materials
regulations.
The FAA alleges that on December 19,
2000, Coty improperly offered a
fiberboard box containing 27 two-ounce
glass bottles of perfume, a flammable
liquid, to Federal Express (FedEx) for
transportation by air. Ground handling
employees at the FedEx sort facility in
Atlanta, GA, discovered the shipment
leaking.
.................................................. ..........
The Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), Southern Region, has proposed to
assess a $70,000 civil penalty against
Queen Nail & Beauty Supplies, Inc. of
Philadelphia, PA, for allegedly
violating Department of Transportation
hazardous materials regulations.
The FAA alleges that on June 5, 2001,
Queen Nail & Beauty improperly offered
a fiberboard box containing two 16-
ounce containers of primer and top coat
containing ethyl acetate, a flammable
liquid, to United Parcel Service (UPS)
for transportation by air. Ground
handling employees at the UPS sort
facility in Louisville, KY, discovered
the shipment leaking.
.................................................. ...........
FAA Proposes $84,000 Penalty Against West Virginia Corporation for Hazmat Violations
The Federal Aviation Administration,
Southern Region, has proposed to assess
an $84,000 civil penalty against The
Twin State Corp., Beauty and Barber
Supply of Hinton, WV., for allegedly
violating Department of Transportation
hazardous materials regulations.
The FAA alleges that on August 2, 2000,
Twin State improperly offered a
fiberboard box containing three 8.5-
ounce plastic bottles of styling spray,
a flammable liquid, and 12 9.25-ounce
aerosol containers of volume spray, a
flammable gas, to United Parcel Service
(UPS) for transportation by air. Ground
handling employees at the UPS sort
facility in Louisville, KY discovered
the shipment leaking.

[Tony Miller]

I've stayed out of the whole aftershave, etc....market ust for this reason. Even liquids of any type (strop dressing) are not favorites of our Postal system.

I notice that Classic Shaving had a disclaimer about aftershaves and UPS only right on their front page.

Tony

[Doc4]

In the past, I've ordered cologne & GF's perfume from Sephora w/out problem. Perhaps any merchants here who want to ship to Canada can ask Sephora how they manage that ... if they'll bother to tell you!

It does seem silly, though.

[Rik]

Nothing is supposed to ship by air containing 'any' alcohol unless the shipper can prove the flashpoint threshold. That means no Priority Mail, and no First Class mail with USPS. I checked with international UPS and they say no thanks. I just called FedEx international (1.800.463.3339) and the flash point is 141 degrees F. Again with FedEx you have to prove the flash point. In the States it is federal law, not sure about others. The penalties are severe.

The right of inspection is held by the carriers, customs and also any commercial airlines that carry mail as freight.

Rik, the link is not working for me either.
Sue
They moved the page. I updated the link to a pdf file that covers it on page 42.
Canada Post may accept items containing exempted
qualifying dangerous goods† subject to the following:
• The dangerous goods must meet all “Limited
Quantity” requirements as per the Transportation
of Dangerous Goods Act and Regulations,
including but not limited to, marking and
additional packaging requirements. Visit
www.canadapost.ca/cpg (Canada Postal Guide)
for further information
For me the bottom line is I've had too much product confiscated by the Canadian postal service to risk sending more.

[Sue]

Rik
Section 4.2.3.1 "Prohibited Goods" includes alcohol and samples of. As explained to me, alcohol whether in EDT or for drinking falls under the same regulation due to it's flashpoint. SD (Special Denatured) alcohol used in EDT is undrinkable but still flammable. PPL used to use vodka and that too is also illegal as it is condidered 'serving' even though it is not ingested. That brings in the BATF.

Today I spoke with a Hazmat specialist. One thing he mentioned is that it is sometimes possible to obtain permission/waiver by the DOT but it did include a lot of red tape and would not be any guarantee of sucess.

Sounds like attorneys and a lot of money to me but throwing it out there if someone has an interest and most likely a lot of disposable income.

Down the road I wouldn't be surprised if it became impossible to buy SD alcohol for making EDT or colognes except for Big money.
Sue

[Rik]

Rik
Section 4.2.3.1 "Prohibited Goods" includes alcohol and samples of. As explained to me, alcohol whether in EDT or for drinking falls under the same regulation due to it's flashpoint. SD (Special Denatured) alcohol used in EDT is undrinkable but still flammable. PPL used to use vodka and that too is also illegal as it is condidered 'serving' even though it is not ingested. That brings in the BATF.

Today I spoke with a Hazmat specialist. One thing he mentioned is that it is sometimes possible to obtain permission/waiver by the DOT but it did include a lot of red tape and would not be any guarantee of sucess.

Sounds like attorneys and a lot of money to me but throwing it out there if someone has an interest and most likely a lot of disposable income.

Down the road I wouldn't be surprised if it became impossible to buy SD alcohol for making EDT or colognes except for Big money.
Sue
Don't even say that. :scared:

[cr8n]

Sue and others,

If Nordstrom's can, then why can't we?

Is this issue worth working on further? I think so, and hope so.

A. Canada:

Two things are a problem here. They MIGHT be able to be avoided.

ONE, alcohol-based products cannot be shipped via Canada Post, because they have regulations against it. It seems this is because CP cannot guarantee that such goods will not be shipped via air at some point in transit.

TWO, Shipping alcohol-based products via any carrier by air. I think that is against Canadian Federal law (from perusing Canadian Gov't websites).

This leaves a possibility that a private carrier can ship alcohol-based products within and into Canada provided the products are routed exclusively via ground transport.

I forget where, but SOMEone posted online (on B&B?) that FedEx would ship this stuff by ground. Can this be confirmed?

Also, please note that some vendors, including some on B&B, ship illegally into Canada via air by mislabelling their boxes. I know because I have received some of them. The fact that they haven't been caught makes them lucky, and their customers even luckier. But it doesn't make the shipments legal, or reduce their risk of being caught in the future.

Again, retail stores are NOT special individuals under the law. Foreign perfumes and aftershaves are sold retail in Canada. They have to get here somehow.

Ground shipments might be slower, but I suspect they are also cheaper.

Surely one enterprising vendor can fugure this out? My Penhaligon's-craving face can't wait.

B. U.S.A.

From Sue's post above, it seems like you guys statesside may have the same problems we do. If so, pls give your Canuck colleagues credit for being ahead of the curve, again, and let's solve it together.

Can't we get our heads together and solve this? I WANT TO JOIN THE DECANT CLUB. [pouts]

Paul

[Suzuki]

The only way to safely get colognes/EDT/aftershaves, etc. to Canada is to use UPS or FedEx.

A one pound padded envelope costs about $12 to ship using standard 1-week service.

If the contents are worth less than CAD$20, there shouldn't be taxes/duties.

Still a lot of money for some samples and a lot of hassle for shippers.

[Sue]

Paul,
Volume companies/manufacturers that supply stores can ship their stock to say a Department Store; for instance Neiman Marcus. These volume suppliers that stock the stores are licensed to ship large volumes of alchohol products. They have taken the safety classes, jumped through the hoops and paid steep tax to obtain that license.

Shipping of alcohol products is classified as shipping dangerous goods. The governing body(ies) in the USA are the Intenational Air Transport Association (IATA) and the Department of Transportation (DOT).

The BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) also adds their rules as does the TSA (Transportation Safety Board), commercial Airlines, the Post Office and freight forwarders have their rules too. What you have is a spider web of rules and they all are against shipping alcohol by air or out of the US for anyone who does not fall under the first paragraph above.

Individuals, small companies, eBay sellers, your best friend; even your old Aunt Mildred, etc., who ship via air are doing so illegally unless they are "Licensed". Saint Charles Shave is not licensed and will not be Licensed in any forseeable future. I will not put an alcohol product into the air.

The fines are huge. To me $20k is a BIG fine. That figure is one of the low ones and they climb steeply with content/volume. Remember also; that doesn't include the Attorney fees and related court costs to defend youself so you ONLY get the fine and not the fine plus striped pajamas.

Alcohol, in SCS' case; EDT's can be shipped by surface or ground only. It must be labeled as "ORM - Surface". So that's how I ship it domestically ..... Parcel Post/ORM. NO shipments out of the US even by surface, NO exceptions.

If you received alcohol by a US shipper in CA and it contains a packing slip--you ordered it. You did so illegally as did the shipper, if they are not federally licensed.

The laws apply to all, some just choose to ignore them. Some ppl ignore the laws that forbid driving drunk, driving 100 mph in a subdivision, leaving the scene of an accident, or name your own.

The choice is yours as a buyer and also choice by the 'sender'. Depends if these two parties think they are 'above the law'.

I hope this relaxes in the future but I personally don't see it.

Some of my customers who are residents of Canada keep a Post Office Box in the States. That is the only way I know of legally unless that golden licesnse is existance.

Sue

[Suzuki]

Sue, have you tried UPS or FedEx - my understanding is that they will carry produts that contain alcohol across the border.

Canada post won't carry products with alcohol at all - but for some strange reason, their courier subsidiary (Purolator) will.

The problem with UPS is the crazy customs brokerage fees, but that might not be an issue with shipments of less than $20.

If its the case that UPS/FedEx won't carry these products, that would be good to know.

[Sue]

The only way to safely get colognes/EDT/aftershaves, etc. to Canada is to use UPS or FedEx.

A one pound padded envelope costs about $12 to ship using standard 1-week service.

If the contents are worth less than CAD$20, there shouldn't be taxes/duties.

Still a lot of money for some samples and a lot of hassle for shippers.

Chris,
Not talking shipping costs here.....was it declared as ORM on the package and also the customs declaration of contents? I have checked more than once with UPS, FedX, and DHL requesting ground shipment. Refused by all three.
Sue

[cr8n]

this is a great thread ... finally some light on all this? ... here's a link to another post you may have seen. does this help?

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=333783#post333783

[Suzuki]

Chris,
Not talking shipping costs here.....was it declared as ORM on the package and also the customs declaration of contents? I have checked more than once with UPS, FedX, and DHL requesting ground shipment. Refused by all three.
Sue

I have no reason to doubt you Sue, I always thought it wasn't a problem - seems like they've clamped down on this big time.

[cr8n]

Sue,

I don't want to break the law. A few weeks back I ordered some stuff (naively, mostly) and the vendor recommended the method. It "worked." Well, sorta. The first box I received contained a broken bottle of alcohol-based AS. It didn't leak beyond the pouch it was in within a larger box. (When I notified the vendor, it was replaced.)

[These illegal shipments are common, but I can't see basing a business or a non-profit club even on this shaky a foundation.]

... In other words, the breakage of that package demonstrated the exact reason why there is a law against shipping via that method! Thank goodness it didn't leak. Might it actually have caused a fire on a plane!?!!

I would prefer legal means, and don't mind paying a (reasonable) premium for it.

How much do these licenses/taxes cost? At the moment I cannot even figure out how to get alcohol-based products shipped into Canada (to me!) by large vendors, not to mention smaller vendors like Sue - whose products I would like to try as well.

Canada isn't the only country with these rules. What to do?

Paul

[Sue]

Thank you for posting this link. Finding information of the license/permit by the DOT has been difficult. If anyone finds the steps to follow-up on this, I hope the link is posted.

This article doesn't spell out if this new regulation applies to International shipping will now be allowed or did I overlook it?
Sue

[bman40]

Doc4:

use TBS Shipping in Point Roberts. They will accept packages for $3 and you can usually just drive it across the border - no duty etc.

Barry

[riooso]

I have been reading about all the Canadian shipping problems and I am saddened. Canadians everywhere should start raising a stink, no pun intended, about not being able to send aftershave across the Canadian border. For God's sake, IT'S AFTERSHAVE. I refuse to believe that something can not be done! It can not be that hard! When the light is turned on the cockroaches head for the baseboards!:mad3:

Richard

[Barbarosa]

I have been reading about all the Canadian shipping problems and I am saddened. Canadians everywhere should start raising a stink, no pun intended, about not being able to send aftershave across the Canadian border. For God's sake, IT'S AFTERSHAVE. I refuse to believe that something can not be done! It can not be that hard! When the light is turned on the cockroaches head for the baseboards!:mad3:

Richard

Deleted by moderator to protect the innocent.

[Sue]

The key is the alcohol content or other ingredients that are flammable and what that flashpoint is.

Sue

[Anubis]

I have been reading about all the Canadian shipping problems and I am saddened. Canadians everywhere should start raising a stink, no pun intended, about not being able to send aftershave across the Canadian border. For God's sake, IT'S AFTERSHAVE. I refuse to believe that something can not be done! It can not be that hard! When the light is turned on the cockroaches head for the baseboards!:mad3:

Richard

I read this thread and am confused about a few things. I understand (and am not debating) that the US has strict regulations about shipping alcohol-based products via air transport due to the flashpoint of potential alcohol leakage. However, I can say without any doubt that Americans have been routinely importing absinthe and other high-proof spirits (136+) from Europe without any interference from Customs, FBI, or the ATB for years. In fact, Canada is one of the only countries I am aware of that disallows its citizens from importing alcohol from abroad for personal use (I suspect it is fear of losing the massive tax revenues and provincial stranglehold on liquor distribution). However, I have had purchased absinthe from both British Columbia and Nova Scotia to Ontario and it was shipped via Canada Post with no problems whatsoever.

I am not sure what the issue is from shipping from the US, but one can easily log on to many Europe-based alcohol distributors and have liquor shipped to the United States via air transport with no problems whatsoever. The guys at the Wormwood Society (http://wormwoodsociety.org/) and La Fee Verte (http://www.feeverte.net/) have never reported a problem doing so.

FWIW, I have also imported a bottle of Combier Blanchette from France from one of the remaining distributors that will ship to Canada. However, it was at my own risk as Canada Customs will confiscate any liquor imports it discovers. The bottle arrived intact wrapped in bubble wrap and packed in a plain cardboard box full of styrofoam popcorn.