Prenuptial Agreements

[TstebinsB]

I used to feel that if you need a prenupt, it was a sign that you aren't truly confident in your impending nuptials, and if you aren't that confident in marrying this person, you probably shouldn't be marrying that person. It's easy for me to think this way because my parents have been going for 28+ years strong. Once bitten, twice shy. I've never been bitten, so to speak. However, I'm starting to change my perspective. I still don't think it's necessary but I'm realizing how useful it can be. What are you thoughts on prenuptial agreements?

[ogopogo]

I say get one. With the divorce rate being what it is, it would be the smart thing to do.

[MasterP]

You just can't compare the mindset 30 years ago to today. You need to get a prenup if you are going to get married. One wise realtor I know told me this recently, "Back in the days women wanted to kids and raise their kids and be home, now they always want to go somewhere" and "If you find a woman that can cook good, you found a good woman". Also I've noticed that the age when people get married now has gone to mid thirties to 40's.

[OldSaw]

Another thing to consider is your local state laws. Each state is different. As far as I know, here in Wisconsin a prenup only protects assets owned prior to the marriage. Anything the two of you earn during the marriage is equal property and divided as such in the case of a divorce.

If you are really concerned about things like family property that your family has owned for generations or a business, you need the advice of an attorney to help in these specific areas so any nuptial or prenup doesn't mess things up. Property can be held in a trust and completely negates the need for a prenup. I know there is a lawyer in Traverse City that has built his practice around protecting vacation homes from divorces. Essentially, the home goes into a trust and is managed by members of the family. The trust stands on its own.

[TstebinsB]

You just can't compare the mindset 30 years ago to today. You need to get a prenup if you are going to get married. One wise realtor I know told me this recently, "Back in the days women wanted to kids and raise their kids and be home, now they always want to go somewhere" and "If you find a woman that can cook good, you found a good woman". Also I've noticed that the age when people get married now has gone to mid thirties to 40's.

Some may say that people were more willing to work through their issues 30 years ago. Others may say that there were just as many people who wanted to divorce but the stigma was too strong back then.

[Lynchmeister]

I'm in the "If you're right for each other, you don't need one" camp.

[MasterP]

Well, I assume one can also put property in an LLC and then just keep passing it one to your children. Well it can't hurt to get a prenup, but you can't get one after. Well you can get a postnup, but it's not the same as a prenup. It would suck if your parents worked hard and left you a business, property and money and have it all taken away by a divorce.

[chickpea]

prenups are particularly useful if the economic situation of the parties are in some way unequal (one partner brings a lot of money to the marriage or one party brings a lot of debt).

In the event that both parties are economically equal, more or less, they lose their import.

It all depends on your situation.

[OldSaw]

Well, I assume one can also put property in an LLC and then just keep passing it one to your children. Well it can't hurt to get a prenup, but you can't get one after. Well you can get a postnup, but it's not the same as a prenup. It would suck if your parents worked hard and left you a business, property and money and have it all taken away by a divorce.

AFAIK, an LLC isn't good enough. It must be set up properly in a trust by an attorney that knows the ropes. Even a prenup could be contested if the property was owned outright and the value went up significantly, thereby creating income during the marriage. This is not something I would trust to anyone that doesn't specialize in this area.

Any agreement can be contested. It's best to have the attorney or law firm that wrote the agreement do the defending of said agreement. I am not a lawyer, but I have had them on retainer several times to either write or defend contracts.

[Eagle]

I had nothing when I got married, and now all I have is debt. If she wants to leave me she's welcome to half of that!

[chickpea]

AFAIK, an LLC isn't good enough. It must be set up properly in a trust by an attorney that knows the ropes. Even a prenup could be contested if the property was owned outright and the value went up significantly, thereby creating income during the marriage. This is not something I would trust to anyone that doesn't specialize in this area.

Any agreement can be contested. It's best to have the attorney or law firm that wrote the agreement do the defending of said agreement. I am not a lawyer, but I have had them on retainer several times to either write or defend contracts.

It highly depends on your state. An LLC is NOT good enough, sometimes. And don't use any funds after you are married to invest in the LLC, then part of that LLC becomes a marital asset (at least in some states). Again, not everyone needs a prenup, if you are both economically equal (either asset or debt) then you don't likely need one.

[Holton181]

I'm in the if you are right for each other camp, but with marriage being a only three year commitment nowadays, it doesn't hurt to consider it.

[Mottern Man]

I was broke and so was my wife when we got married.

Now we are in the poor house. :lol:

I believe in them if one person has more then the other to protect one from marrying just for money.

So "I've never had one and I've never needed it."

But if I was Paul McCarthy I would have gotten one.

[OldSaw]

It highly depends on your state. An LLC is NOT good enough, sometimes. And don't use any funds after you are married to invest in the LLC, then part of that LLC becomes a marital asset (at least in some states). Again, not everyone needs a prenup, if you are both economically equal (either asset or debt) then you don't likely need one.

That is very true. Even though I lost a lot in my divorce, when we got married, everything we owned fit in an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon. :lol:

I can laugh at it now, but it wasn't fun at the time. The only winners were the three lawyers; mine, hers and the guardian ad litem, and a few other parasites that hang around the sharks.

[jkh]

If you do get a prenup, make sure you get a Massey Prenup ... it's never been penetrated, they devote a whole semester to it at Harvard.

For those of you that have no idea what I am talking about, do you yourself a favor and rent Intolerable Cruelty (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138524/). Fantastically funny.

[TstebinsB]

If you do get a prenup, make sure you get a Massey Prenup ... it's never been penetrated, they devote a whole semester to it at Harvard.

For those of you that have no idea what I am talking about, do you yourself a favor and rent Intolerable Cruelty (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138524/). Fantastically funny.

Yes. Very funny indeed.

[royalcrown]

To give you my background, my wife and I dated for 4 years and have just celebrated our 4 year anniversary. In the 8 years we have been together we have never lost our tempers with each other and have always made it a point in our relationship to be best friends first.

That being said, once it came time for the wedding paperwork, we were both in agreement that this would be a good thing. To us it was a way of saying “I respect you enough that even if the worst happens and this all goes to hell, I will not turn on you.”

[Doc4]

Art is the King!

:biggrin:

I'd say never get a prenup. You have to go into the marriage 100% committed, and if you are thinking 'prenup', you are not 100% (and your intended is going to be even farther from 100%, knowing you are thinking 'exit strategy'.)

"Forever and ever, Amen." ... the only sort of prenup you get is substituting in "till death do us part."

[MasterP]

I assume you are from Japan. Is the divorce rate there as high as in the US?

To give you my background, my wife and I dated for 4 years and have just celebrated our 4 year anniversary. In the 8 years we have been together we have never lost our tempers with each other and have always made it a point in our relationship to be best friends first.

That being said, once it came time for the wedding paperwork, we were both in agreement that this would be a good thing. To us it was a way of saying “I respect you enough that even if the worst happens and this all goes to hell, I will not turn on you.”

[TstebinsB]

I assume you are from Japan. Is the divorce rate there as high as in the US?

The rate has been rising. There's a huge stigma against divorces in Asian culture, in general. But I believe the laws were changed in Japan recently so that a wife can receive half of her husband's pensions. There was a fear that older, single women wouldn't be able to support themselves - until now.

[royalcrown]

I assume you are from Japan. Is the divorce rate there as high as in the US?

Nope, we are both US citizens. I am stationed in Japan with the US Navy. Although military divorce rates are conciderably high last I heard (>%50) but I dont have concrete numbers at hand.

Amongst my Japanese friends, I have not heard about many divorces over here but that may have something to do with it not being polite conversation but I would not be surprised if it was on the rise. One thing I have read between the lines over here is that women are becoming more empowered over here and starting to chip away at the age old mode for what is expected of them in Japanese society and a lot of men are uncomfortable about it.

[porteno]

Both my wife and I agreed to one when married. It was not a trust issue, but everybody goes into a marriage saying "I'm 100% sure and committed" that doesn't mean people don't get divorced. We just go married 3 months ago after 5 years of dating. I want to be with her forever, but you NEVER know the way life turns on you.. if it does someday, for her and my benefit, our prenup is in place...

[kwk285]

My wife and I will be celebrating our 20th anniversary next week. When we got married, we both came in to the marriage with basically nothing. There was nothing for a prenup.

I think a prenup makes since once one or both of the parties are established.

[TimmyBoston]

When/if I get married, I will be getting a pre-nup.

[Smell The Glove]

I agree with Porteno.
Ask 100 couples on their wedding day if they intend to divorce in the future. I'll bet about 100 of the couples will laugh at you and say 'no'.
Probably about half of them will divorce however. So maybe it is a good idea.
I don't have one tho' as she is more than welcome to half of my debt! :biggrin:

[ctr]

Highly subjective I think. When couples are young and starting out with little or nothing, a prenump has little to no value. It is a shared journey.

For those starting later in life, or those who have been thru the gate more than once so to speak, and have accumlated some assets, I think a prenump is a wise choice. Why? Certainly not because your spouse will take half - that is not possible, since the lawyers get 50 - 60% and both of you are left with the crumbs! :lol:

[Mottern Man]

When/if I get married, I will be getting a pre-nup.

Afraid she will fight you for the shave stash?

[Paris]

At one time close to 50% of marriages ended in divorce - not sure what it is now. I have never met any man going through a divorce that was not happy he had one or if he didn't he wishes he had.

To me it is something that must be done.

[kwk285]

The 50% divorce rate has been thrown around for years. If you look at the results, two points come out that really put that percentage into perspective.

1) The divorce rate for people on their first marriage is much higher if they get married before the age of 25. After that age the divorce rate is dramatically lower.

2) Once a person has been divorced once, they are more likely to get a divorce in the future.

I read several articles about this several years ago, so I don't have any links that I can use.

But like I said earlier, I think once a person is established, it makes since to have a prenup.

[Island Brian]

I would say no to getting married before I would say yes to a prenup.

[TstebinsB]

There's a report that the San Diego Padres owner may need to sell the team because he needs money for his divorce. It's one thing to lose the Jag, the vacation home in Costa Rica, or the watch collection. It's another thing to lose a professional sports franchise! Whew!

[TimmyBoston]

There's a report that the San Diego Padres owner may need to sell the team because he needs money for his divorce. It's one thing to lose the Jag, the vacation home in Costa Rica, or the watch collection. It's another thing to lose a professional sports franchise! Whew!

She's very lucky he didn't hire a hitman instead of selling the team! :lol:

[OldSaw]

She's very lucky he didn't hire a hitman instead of selling the team! :lol:

That's so passe. :lol:

[TstebinsB]

I assume you are from Japan. Is the divorce rate there as high as in the US?

Just a follow-up to your question, my friend in Japan said that the divorce rate is 37%. That's just as high as the US. I always hear talk that the US, especially, has poor family stability but if a traditionally family-first country like Japan can be that high, nowhere is exempt.

[sol92258]

I'm in the "If you're right for each other, you don't need one" camp.


I'm in the if you are right for each other camp, but with marriage being a only three year commitment nowadays, it doesn't hurt to consider it.


Art is the King!

:biggrin:

I'd say never get a prenup. You have to go into the marriage 100% committed, and if you are thinking 'prenup', you are not 100% (and your intended is going to be even farther from 100%, knowing you are thinking 'exit strategy'.)

"Forever and ever, Amen." ... the only sort of prenup you get is substituting in "till death do us part."

I have to agree with these...and the context of current society statement. we're in a "disposable" culture right now - cars made to last 5 years, everything else 1-2, so that mindset goes with everything
I read a (very well educated) fellows theory awhile back that he believed marriage licenses could possibly show up in the future as 5, 7, 10 year agreements!!! that's freaky

I could go on, but I won't, ya'll didn't ask me to, just my opinion :biggrin1:

[jazzman]

The important thing is to get your legal advice from an internet forum on shaving.:rolleyes:

[SRock]

I've been divorced and remarried. I didn’t have one and fortunately I didn't need a prenuptial agreement during my divorce. It got messy at times, but nothing severe. Overall it was fairly tame by most standards of divorce. I don't have one now either, though I truly believe this is it, and she is the one.

My advice is this. If you are worth copious sums of money, or if you possess material things that are so important to you (perhaps even more so than your significant other) then you should consider a pre-nup. If you are a regular Joe with a regular job what exists that is worth stressing the trust in a relationship that you feel warrants wedlock?

[murchmb]

IMO, pre-nups and living together are cop outs. If there is that much uncertainty and/or lack of trust in a relationship before making life long commitment, it hasn't been built on a solid foundation and is doomed.

[Eagle]

The important thing is to get your legal advice from an internet forum on shaving.:rolleyes:

Now that made me laugh! :lol::lol::lol:

[Stauff]

Why is it that everytime this thread gets bumped I think it's about abstinence :confused:

Must be my limited command of the English language...

[Pig Cat]

I would say no to getting married before I would say yes to a prenup.

+1

Is it truly a marriage if it's entered in to with mistrust? Why bother getting married in the first place?!

[Chimensch]

I had nothing when I got married, and now all I have is debt. If she wants to leave me she's welcome to half of that!

Why so stingy? Give her all of it! But seriously ... only someone with more assets than their prospective spouse would even think of a prenup. I think a prenup is a great idea for someone who is worried that the other person is only marrying them for their money. If nothing else it is a litmus test. If they agree to sign it, they're probably not interested in the money. On the other hand, as the bible says, "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Luke 12:34), if I were the poorer party, I wouldn't sign one because it means the other person cares more about their money than me. I don't have a lot of money because it's not that important to me. Time is much more valuable than money. If I'm going to marry you, it's because I want to spend my time, my life with you. My time, my life is much more precious than your money. So, get over it.

[TstebinsB]

Why so stingy? Give her all of it! But seriously ... only someone with more assets than their prospective spouse would even think of a prenup. I think a prenup is a great idea for someone who is worried that the other person is only marrying them for their money. If nothing else it is a litmus test. If they agree to sign it, they're probably not interested in the money. On the other hand, as the bible says, "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Luke 12:34), if I were the poorer party, I wouldn't sign one because it means the other person cares more about their money than me. I don't have a lot of money because it's not that important to me. Time is much more valuable than money. If I'm going to marry you, it's because I want to spend my time, my life with you. My time, my life is much more precious than your money. So, get over it.

Did you just marry and then divorce, complete with a parting shot in one post? Get over it! I gave you the best years of my life!

[Dr. Mike]

While I don't know people, personally, who have prenups, I do know people that are married and have separate bank accounts, and split up the finances in weird ways. From my observations, it is not a good situation. Typically, one of them will ask the other to make the majority of the necessary purchases, while spending their own money on frivolous items.

My opinion, FWIW, is that if you aren't willing to share everything, why get married? It's not just some nifty extended sleepover. Spend some time with the person, get to know them before you pop the question. If you aren't sure you can trust them with your possessions, why are you considering marriage? I know the divorce rate is high, but you don't have to be a part of that statistic. I'm not convinced there is such thing as a no-fault divorce. Typically somebody screwed up somewhere. Even so, barring certain deal-breaker activities, you can still try to work things out, rather than just knee-jerk divorce.

Within a week of returning from our honeymoon, my wife and I had both of our names on everything. For better or worse. Maybe this is easy to say from a guy who didn't start out with that much in the first place, but aren't you starting out with a handicap on the marriage by making the other person sign a form that, in effect, says I love you, but I'm not so sure I can trust you to not run off with my stuff, so sign this form please.

[TstebinsB]

While I don't know people, personally, who have prenups, I do know people that are married and have separate bank accounts, and split up the finances in weird ways. From my observations, it is not a good situation. Typically, one of them will ask the other to make the majority of the necessary purchases, while spending their own money on frivolous items.

My opinion, FWIW, is that if you aren't willing to share everything, why get married? It's not just some nifty extended sleepover. Spend some time with the person, get to know them before you pop the question. If you aren't sure you can trust them with your possessions, why are you considering marriage? I know the divorce rate is high, but you don't have to be a part of that statistic. I'm not convinced there is such thing as a no-fault divorce. Typically somebody screwed up somewhere. Even so, barring certain deal-breaker activities, you can still try to work things out, rather than just knee-jerk divorce.

Within a week of returning from our honeymoon, my wife and I had both of our names on everything. For better or worse. Maybe this is easy to say from a guy who didn't start out with that much in the first place, but aren't you starting out with a handicap on the marriage by making the other person sign a form that, in effect, says I love you, but I'm not so sure I can trust you to not run off with my stuff, so sign this form please.

With all due respect, studies show that extended sleepovers are very big with Germanic women over the age of 40 and Mexican boys between the ages of 8 and 10. I don't think they'd appreciate the negative connotation.