A combo coffee/espresso maker

[bishop]

OK gents, I love my coffee but have neither the time nor the money to invest in many of the fine tools & habits discussed here. I buy my beans in bulk, grind them before brewing, and use a Mr. Coffee drip machine during the week and a Krups steam espresso machine on the weekends.

My wife & I were in Bed, Bath, & Beyond recently, and as I usually do, I drooled over the coffee stuff while she did her shopping. I thought about how a combination machine would save some space on the counter, and I found one that had a very nice price:
linky (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=13725179)

Note: the pump version of this is quite attractive, but it's $300 and I can't see myself spending that much on a coffee machine.

Are these combination machines (specifically this one) really worth parting with a perfectly good 12-cup Mr. Coffee and a mostly OK Krups steam espresso machine?

[Scotto]

Nope. Waste of money. Save up for a machine that will actually make espresso instead of strong coffee, or a coffee maker that will actually extract at the proper temperature. Right now you have the worst of both worlds. :wink:

[bishop]

What I have isn't the cream of the crop, but it makes me happy....are you saying I need a $300 pump machine?

[mdo12345]

I'm no coffee connoisseur, so please take this advice with a grain of salt. Before you spend $100 on that fancy machine (I have one very similar-a gift- and do love it), go and get yourself a metal filter for your coffee machine. The idea behind a metal filter (I think) is that the oil from the coffee is allowed to flow into the coffee pot rather than getting stuck in a paper filter. This should be an affordable way of improving your morning cups of java. Another thing about those Krups machines is the cheaper models don't have an automatic setting (don't remember the technical term) that would allow you to brew your coffee while your getting out of bed. Does this make sense?

[Scotto]

What I have isn't the cream of the crop, but it makes me happy....are you saying I need a $300 pump machine?

If you are happy, you don't need anything....

If you want real espresso, unfortunately it is an investment. Don't get a combo machine.

[sandpaper]

Generally speaking, multi-taskers like that are not going to do either of their tasks better than a uni-tasker. You're going to end up with more counter space, but thats about it. I'd recommend checking out some of the product reviews at CoffeeGeek (http://www.coffeegeek.com/). They talk about coffee like we talk about shaving. Good luck!

[bishop]

Generally speaking, multi-taskers like that are not going to do either of their tasks better than a uni-tasker. You're going to end up with more counter space, but thats about it. I'd recommend checking out some of the product reviews at CoffeeGeek (http://www.coffeegeek.com/). They talk about coffee like we talk about shaving. Good luck!

I had a sneaking suspicion of this.

[bishop]

If you are happy, you don't need anything....

If you want real espresso, unfortunately it is an investment. Don't get a combo machine.

True, true. What is your recommendation for uni-task pump espresso machine that can be bought in stores?

[yomuppet]

I do not know if it is sold in stores, but I owned a tiny little pump driven delonghi (probably 8"x8" counter space) for years, and was very happy with it while I was drinking espresso. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=delonghi+espresso&x=0&y=0 -- I think I paid $40-70 for mine ~5 years ago.

Not sure Amazon is even the cheapest, but it's a good source for model numbers and reviews to continue your search elsewhere.

Best of luck.

J

[Trius]

In a small kitchen, I do not have the counter space for a proper espresso machine. But I highly recommend the Bialetti Brikka (http://www.bialettishop.com/BrikkaMain.htm), a stovetop moka pot that has a novel top valve added and actually produces respectable crema. This blog (http://www.daigoexpressed.net/brikka/index.php?page=default) has lots of good information and comments from users. I use the two-cup version (double shot) rather than the four-cup, since the word was that the four-cup did not perform as well. That may be a myth however, and I'm thinking about getting a four-cup pot at some time.

I almost exclusively use Espresso Adoration (http://www.clubjava.com/coffee.asp?coffee=espresso) beans from Java Joe. As they are roasted locally, I can get them at a very good price -- $10/lb. and no shipping.

[bishop]

In a small kitchen, I do not have the counter space for a proper espresso machine. But I highly recommend the Bialetti Brikka (http://www.bialettishop.com/BrikkaMain.htm), a stovetop moka pot that has a novel top valve added and actually produces respectable crema. This blog (http://www.daigoexpressed.net/brikka/index.php?page=default) has lots of good information and comments from users. I use the two-cup version (double shot) rather than the four-cup, since the word was that the four-cup did not perform as well. That may be a myth however, and I'm thinking about getting a four-cup pot at some time.

I bought one of those today while looking for something else. I'm a little puzzled over how I can make it work for my usual lattes, but I'm excited about the mechanics of it. I should be in for a real treat.

[bishop]

I do not know if it is sold in stores, but I owned a tiny little pump driven delonghi (probably 8"x8" counter space) for years, and was very happy with it while I was drinking espresso. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=delonghi+espresso&x=0&y=0 -- I think I paid $40-70 for mine ~5 years ago.

Not sure Amazon is even the cheapest, but it's a good source for model numbers and reviews to continue your search elsewhere.

Best of luck.

J

I'm going to keep an eye out for this.

As usual, I've been steered away from a mistake by generous group advice. Thanks, guys. :001_smile What I need is a pump single-purpose espresso machine.

[homebrewer]

I'd stay clear of the combo machines as well. Just too much compromise in a machine like that. It will technically do both jobs, but it won't do them even close to well.

If you're looking for counter space, I'd suggest a french press and a stove top espresso pot. The press will undoubtedly give you better coffee than the Mr coffee will. Personally, I've always loved the stove top espresso pots, and think they make fantastic coffee. It is the only espresso pot that my cousins in Italy use, and I learned the best way to use it from them. Other purists shy away from the stove tops, due to the lack of pressure and various other concerns.

For me, personnaly, those are the best way to make each respective cup of coffee. They produce a fantastic cup o' joe, are so cheap they might as well be free, and they take up just slightly more counter space than a pair of coffee mugs....

[Monkeyboy]

Agree with homebrewer. You should not get a combo or drip machine at all. Get a bodum or similar type hot pot (use it to make hot lather even) and a filterbasket to pour into or a french press depending on how opposed to the sludge factor you are.

To make great espresso you need a machine with a decent pump - there's no getting around it, $200-ish minimum and a capable grinder in the $200 range as well. Don't bother with the steam toys. Bialetti pots make good, strong coffee.

[Dinder1]

For a decent espresso setup at home, you would be looking at a minimum investment of $400-$$$ for a machine, and $200.00-400.00 for a grinder.
Here are a few low cost options that will yield you a fantastic cup of coffee (not espresso).

Yama coffee syphon $30.00-40.00.
Mocha pot (stove top) $20.00-40.00
French press $15.00-40.00.
And then there is the good old pour over cone filter method that should run you about ten bucks total.

Part of the fun is just experimenting with the different brewing methods that are available. So just remember to have fun, and remember that each brewing device will highlight something different in the coffee.
Enjoy!
DJ.

[mdo12345]

Me again! I realized last night that I should have recommended a French press to you. I see that someone has already beat me to it.

[Trius]

I bought one of those today while looking for something else. I'm a little puzzled over how I can make it work for my usual lattes, but I'm excited about the mechanics of it. I should be in for a real treat.

To make a latte or cappuccino, you have to deal with the milk separately if you use a Brikka. Bialetti has another pot, called the Mukka Express (http://bialettishop.com/MukkaMain.htm), which does cappuccinos all in one unit. I have not tried this, but I have two friends who have them, and they are satisfied.

To make a cappuccino with the Brikka, I heat milk (and sugar, if you like) in a Pyrex measuring cup, in the microwave. After I remove it, I light the stove under the Brikka and while I am waiting for the Brikka to do its thing, I froth the milk. I use a small whisk and whip by hand, but you could use an electric whisk, too. I had a cheap electric whisk which seemed to be OK until it broke. Like I said, "cheap", and I haven't replaced it yet.

Using this method I do not get a foam as fine or nice as is made with a proper frother. But it is a pleasant drink all the same.

My first experience with the Brikka: http://weedram.blogspot.com/2006/06/breaking-in-brikka.html

[bishop]

I'm definitely going to save up for a proper pump espresso machine. The Krups steam machine I have should do until it just putters out, then I'll get the fine stuff.

As far as the French press goes, I'm not a big fan of the sludge. I have tried it with a small press and think it's OK, but for my weekday mornings, I'm stuck on the Mr. Coffee-type stuff...grind & set the night before, wake up to a brewed pot, and that's it. The press is good for when I want a cup of coffee but don't have a reason to do a full pot.



To make a latte or cappuccino, you have to deal with the milk separately if you use a Brikka. Bialetti has another pot, called the Mukka Express (http://bialettishop.com/MukkaMain.htm), which does cappuccinos all in one unit. I have not tried this, but I have two friends who have them, and they are satisfied.

To make a cappuccino with the Brikka, I heat milk (and sugar, if you like) in a Pyrex measuring cup, in the microwave. After I remove it, I light the stove under the Brikka and while I am waiting for the Brikka to do its thing, I froth the milk. I use a small whisk and whip by hand, but you could use an electric whisk, too. I had a cheap electric whisk which seemed to be OK until it broke. Like I said, "cheap", and I haven't replaced it yet.

Using this method I do not get a foam as fine or nice as is made with a proper frother. But it is a pleasant drink all the same.

My first experience with the Brikka: http://weedram.blogspot.com/2006/06/breaking-in-brikka.html

Thanks! I'm going to try this. Keep the Brikka advice coming. I'm pretty excited about trying it.

[Trius]

Jonathan:

The keys to the Brikka are as follows:
(some of these are in the instructions, IIRC)


The grind should not be as fine as espresso; I back off just a bit from that
Do NOT tamp down the grounds. When you screw the brew chamber onto the boil pot, that will compress the grounds properly
Do not overvill the grounds chamber with the coffee, and keep any grounds from the threads or the top rim of the boil chamber; an imperfect seal can lead to unpleasant language on your part ;)
Don't overfill the boil chamber; a tiny bit less of water (1mm or so under the line) is fine
Attend the Brikka! You want to take it off the heat IMMEDIATELY when it "explodes". Depending on the type of beans, amount of grounds and water, etc., count on 3-1/4 to 4 minutes brew time. Leaving the pot on heat will destroy the crema and introduce bitterness.


Different beans and roasts yield different amounts of crema (duh), but also how quickly the cream is produced. With my Adoration beans, it comes furiously all at once at the end. When I used some pre-ground Segafredo recently, the climax of the brewing/crema production was slower and more even, in addition to the density and colour of the crema being different.

The Brikka is a fun little pot. It is so small and portable that I take it camping with me (flickr.com/photos/edunbar/1351363509/)... it is SO cool to have "espresso" in the wilds. As Eric Idle would say, "Oooh, that's luxury!"

[bishop]

Thank you, Trius. About the "explosion" - what am I to expect? Do I leave the lid closed or do I need to monitor the flow?

Also, this moka pot is aluminum. Do I need to make a batch and throw it out in order to "prime" the pot?

[Trius]

I bought one of those today while looking for something else. I'm a little puzzled over how I can make it work for my usual lattes, but I'm excited about the mechanics of it. I should be in for a real treat.


Thank you, Trius. About the "explosion" - what am I to expect? Do I leave the lid closed or do I need to monitor the flow?

Also, this moka pot is aluminum. Do I need to make a batch and throw it out in order to "prime" the pot?

Great questions!

The "explosion" is nothing to fear; Bialetti recommends to keep the lid open. I agree with this, as I think you get slightly better crema. It's never escaped the chamber even with the lid open.

As for seasoning the pot, yes, the first pot will not be very good, so I would use "junk" coffee that you don't care about. It's been awhile, but I think the moka was good on at least the 3rd pot, maybe even the 2nd.

Another thing -- don't use soap or detergent to clean the Brikka (or any aluminum moka pot) -- normally I just rinse and scrub with a nylon scrubby. Sometimes I polish up the exterior with a non-abrasive cleaner such as Bon Ami. I have even used Bon Ami on the boil pot interior. The boil pot, for some reason, doesn't dry well even when you put it in a dish drainer or on a counter top, mouth down. I haven't gotten to the stage of drying it out with a towel yet, but I probably should. Still and all, my moka/espresso tastes fine with only minimal care of the pot.

One thing I might recommend is to buy a repair/spares kits when you buy the Brikka. This is in case you do something stupid and the seals get shot. Not that I would have ever, in the fog of pre-coffee-morning, attempted to make espresso with no water ... :redface:

[TimmyBoston]

Yama coffee syphon $30.00-40.00.
Mocha pot (stove top) $20.00-40.00
French press $15.00-40.00.
And then there is the good old pour over cone filter method that should run you about ten bucks total.

Part of the fun is just experimenting with the different brewing methods that are available. So just remember to have fun, and remember that each brewing device will highlight something different in the coffee.
Enjoy!
DJ.

I use an Aeropress, which makes great coffee, but it takes a ton of coffee grounds to make a cup, so much so that I don't get to drink coffee very often because I can't afford it. Is there a good method for brewing that doesn't take as much ground coffee to make a cup. Thanks!

[Spacegeezer]

I use an Aeropress, which makes great coffee, but it takes a ton of coffee grounds to make a cup, so much so that I don't get to drink coffee very often because I can't afford it. Is there a good method for brewing that doesn't take as much ground coffee to make a cup. Thanks!

It depends what you consider a lot - I haven't used the aeropress, so I don't know how much you're talking about.

I have a 2-shot Bialetti stainless steel Moka pot that uses about 1.5-2 tablespoons of grounds and a 6 shot Bialetti-ripoff (but made in Italy) SS Ikea pot that uses about 1/4 of a cup. Maybe a bit less, I'm not sure.

I went with stainless because I don't have to worry about ruining the flavour by cleaning the pot, although it's slower to heat up. I wish they had one with a copper base or something - though that'd still have to be lined with SS, I guess. All of Italy and space or budget conscious people around the world have been using the Aluminum pots without complaint for decades, so I guess I should just suck it up and switch. I'd like to try 'em back to back and see just how much difference there is before I spend the money, though.

[Dinder1]

I use an Aeropress, which makes great coffee, but it takes a ton of coffee grounds to make a cup, so much so that I don't get to drink coffee very often because I can't afford it. Is there a good method for brewing that doesn't take as much ground coffee to make a cup. Thanks!

Tim,
Try using a small vac pot. Yama makes a 2, 3, and 5 cup model. I think that you would be impressed with the results.

[TimmyBoston]

Tim,
Try using a small vac pot. Yama makes a 2, 3, and 5 cup model. I think that you would be impressed with the results.

Do you recommend the stovetop or the tabletop brewer?

[bishop]

I've made a few rounds of espresso and lattes with the moka pot. I definitely want a higher-quality pot such as a Brikka...this cheap aluminum off-brand I found at Ross makes pretty good espresso, so a quality pot should be even better!

I did find one at BB&B that has a "pull for cappuccino" knob...I assume it introduces more air to the bubbling espresso and makes a better crema. The pot I have now doesn't do much with crema. I have been steaming/frothing my milk with the Krups machine.

A very good find and advice. I think I'll invest in a good Brikka pot and then keep the Krups machine for steaming the milk (and an occasional forced-steam espresso to remind me how good the moka pot method is). :biggrin:

[Suzuki]

My experience is that if you can't/don't want to spend the money on a really good machine, the Mocha is the way to go. For very little money, you can consistently get a really good cup of espresso-like coffee.

There are bigger ones out there if you want to make coffee for more than one, as well as fancier stainless models for those who don't want to use aluminum cookware.

[kingb71]

Upon reading this, I know have a few questions.
I have a Bialetti pot, a larger Moka Express I think. & I notice that there is no crema on top of my espresso. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe the heat is on too high?
I'm not grinding my own beans (I'm not that hard core yet, plus have no more cupboard or counter space), but am just using store bought pre ground stuff.
Also, I have black discolouration in the bottom chamber where the water goes. Did I overheat the pot while empty or something?