Corrosion on my DOVO Bismarck

[silvanos]

Hey guys, I'll have some photos up tomorrow when I can get a camera, but my month old DOVO is already facing some pretty fierce corrosion issues which are leaving me both upset and really confused. I noticed about three weeks ago, overnight practically two gigantic pock marks on one side of my blade. I tossed it up to me doing SOMETHING heinously wrong, even though I'd been very careful to always dry and clean the blade after using, and make sure it was dry before I closed it up.

I have been EXTRA careful after these two marks showed up, and now I have noticed smaller marks appearing along the blade, and what appears to be rust coloured corrosion on the top of the spine(which I had taken to be gold inlay, but which I'm guessing in fact isn't?). It's rather upsetting to have dropped $100+ on a blade and have this happen.

I've been traveling as of late, so I know my apartment water is not the culprit. The blade has been used under city tap and country well water, and consistently I've used my Tabac soap. I've always cleaned and dried it carefully. I'll get some pictures up as soon as I can, but does this sound like an issue with maintenance on my part, or something inherently wrong in the production of the blade?

[Utopian]

Do you have any other razors? You didn't mention it so I assume you don't. From your description, your razor started rusting within one week of use. That seems quite odd to me. I would contact the seller and try to get it exchanged. Of course, unless your seller is fantastic in customer service, it seems doubtful you will get anywhere with it as it is likely that they will blame you for it.

Barring an exchange, you need to get rid of the rust and then keep it away. I would first try just polishing it with Maas or Flitz. That should get rid of surface rust and at this point that is all you should have. Then to keep the rust away, the best lubricant presumably is Tuff-Glide, which is re-applied every few weeks. I don't use it, because I don't trust putting unknown lubricants on my skin, but it's supposed to be the best for razors. Instead, I just dip my dried razor into a solution of 0.5% olive oil in isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). The advantage of this is that the alcohol disperses the water and speeds its evaporation and the olive oil remains behind to lubricate the blade. The oil residue is minimal and will be cleared off of the edge on the strop. I have used this method for years and it has no ill effect on the strop. It protects my blades just fine in the humidity of my basement bathroom and in my locker at the gym

[PedroNavaja]

After the shave, make sure that scales and blade are dry.
Keep the blade always oiled to avoid rust.

[merkurguy]

I am using camellia oil after every shave.I noticed some discoloration on my dovo special but I think it came from some shaving gel I used. I don't use it anymore and the discoloration has stopped but has not gone away. It is slowly fading though.

[Seraphim]

Your razor is made of high carbon steel.

High carbon steel is very susceptable to corrosion. It is not a defect in the razor, it has to do with razor care.

First thing I do after a shave is to clean and dry my razor. Before I do my cold water rinse, before applying alum, before cleaning my brush.

I clean my razor with a dry towel up as close to the edge as I can, then I strop the razor lightly on a dry towel to dry the very edge, then strop the razor lightly for ~30 laps on the leather strop (the oils from the strop help protect the edge), then I hold the razor by the scales and make sure to dry off the tang and monkeytail.

If you leave your razor wet for even 15 minutes you can get spotting and watermarks. It's just the nature of high carbon steel.

If you use polish to get off the corrosion you have be aware that polish will whip your gold wash off in a heartbeat. If you really love that gold wash, someone else may be able to chime in on how to remove the corrosion without removing the wash, but I don't know how you'd do it.:confused:

I recently purchased a razor with a gold wash all along the spine and tang, much like the Bismarck. I couldn't stand it. To me, the gold wash was way to fussy to maintain, so I simply used some metal polish, and viola! No more gold wash!

To me, I like the looks of the pure steel much better, and it greatly improves the ease of maintenance. Water spots? Hit it up with some more polish, no gold wash to worry about.

The Bismarck is a very nice razor. Polish it up and enjoy it.

If carbon steel maintenance makes you nutz, then go get a stainless Dovo. They are really excellent razors, and much easier to care for. Really, there is no drawback that I've found with my Dovo stainless. It is as smooth as most any of my carbon razors, maintains a wicked edge for a long time. The only real drawback is that there is only a limited selection of stainless razors to choose from, whereas 97% of the razors out there are high carbon.

[Thebigspendur]

To develop corrosion in one month is impossible unless you live really close to the ocean and salt water was in contact with the blade. You probably have some very light surface rust which can usually be taken off with a pencil eraser. If that doesn't do it some metal polish will.

[merkurguy]

I probably did not clean my blade as well as I thought I did. I am still scared to use that shaving gel again.My regular soap isn't giving me any problems. Also, I use the towel I use to shower with to wipe of my blade. That is probably a definite no no. I have to get a seperate towel for my blade only. Before I mark up my razor completely.Although, I do a final wipe with toilet paper, and now,(since I got the discoloration) camellia oil.

[Seraphim]

To develop corrosion in one month is impossible unless you live really close to the ocean and salt water was in contact with the blade. You probably have some very light surface rust which can usually be taken off with a pencil eraser. If that doesn't do it some metal polish will.

You can quite easily get corrosion overnight if you don't wipe down your blade correctly.

[Thebigspendur]

Maybe we're taking about two separate things here, rust and corrosion. Rust is iron oxide and is a stain or coating of varying thickness which can be taken off with anything from a pencil eraser to metal polish to sand paper depending how thick it is. Corrosion is an advanced state of rust where the process actually eats into the metal forming pockets of varying depth and has to be sanded out. To develop corrosion overnight is impossible under normal circumstances. I've seen metal subject to salt water that had significant rust form very quickly like within a few hours but even that was not corrosion. Unless your talking an acid bath which mimics corrosion but is of course different I don't see it happening in this scenario.

[silvanos]

You can quite easily get corrosion overnight if you don't wipe down your blade correctly.

Yeah, I've been cleaning it pretty damn well. I imagine I MUST have missed a small spot or something somehow, because these are two POCKS, two craters right into the side of it, that you can feel with your fingernail.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I'm gonna look into some oils and polish and see if I can clean this baby up, or at least keep the rust from getting worse.

[eismann]

I have a red Bismarck that I was able to get two dark spots on the blade, within 3 weeks of getting it. I rubbed the blade down with Ballistol and a cotton rag, took the spots right out and didn't harm the gold wash. I know they were my fault because I didn't dry between the scales. Now I'm ultra paranoid and I wipe them with toilet paper about 3 times after finishing shaving.

[Thebigspendur]

If you have two crators in the metal that formed so quickly there is something else at work.

[uofi1963]

I generously wipe my blades with alcohol thinking that it probably displaces water. Seems to work.

Joel K

[Seraphim]

If you have two crators in the metal that formed so quickly there is something else at work.

Perhaps the ultra dry air of New Mexico gives you different results from the rest of us?

[Bowcephalus]

Wipe clean with towel, wipe with one sheet of toilet paper to completely dry it, fold toilet paper and swab out between scales. Those water droplets have a way of hiding between the scales. I only oil mine if taken out of daily service for a while. Also beware of proximity to hot steamy showers and any sink cleaning the wife does. All she has to do is move it with wet hands.

[Thebigspendur]

Perhaps the ultra dry air of New Mexico gives you different results from the rest of us?

I don't think so but just think about it for a moment. For rust to develop and turn into corrosion and eat a crater in otherwise healthy carbon steel in 24 hours? That just isn't natural. And to prove it here's what I'm going to do. I have a junk razor clean with no rust on it (a 5/8s beau brummel). Tonight I'm going to put in in a glass of water and leave it there for three days. Then I'll take it out, not dry it but leave it in the bathroom another two days. Then I'll take a picture and post it here. if it has any true corrosion, (I'm not talking rust, I expect that) on it I'll eat it. How's that?

[Seraphim]

You don't have to eat it, just shave with it....:wink:

I guess I don't follow your definition of rust vs. corrosion. In my book rust=corrosion, and vice versa.:confused:

[merkurguy]

Wipe clean with towel, wipe with one sheet of toilet paper to completely dry it, fold toilet paper and swab out between scales. Those water droplets have a way of hiding between the scales. I only oil mine if taken out of daily service for a while. Also beware of proximity to hot steamy showers and any sink cleaning the wife does. All she has to do is move it with wet hands.

I know what you mean. I have to be the last out of the bathroom at night just to be sure she didn't get some water on it somehow.:frown:

[PedroNavaja]

Wipe clean with towel, wipe with one sheet of toilet paper to completely dry it, fold toilet paper and swab out between scales. Those water droplets have a way of hiding between the scales. I only oil mine if taken out of daily service for a while. Also beware of proximity to hot steamy showers and any sink cleaning the wife does. All she has to do is move it with wet hands.


And most important, save sheet of toilet paper for intended use, it'll be nice and slick.

[Thebigspendur]

OK, just a progress report. The razor has been fully submerged in water just about 24 hours now and its about 90% covered in a light coat of rust but there are no signs of actual corrosion yet. We'll recheck in another 24 hours.

[Seraphim]

I am conducting my own corrosion experiment (Ebay razor makes itself useful at last!:001_rolle). I'll post pics after I see the progress.

[merkurguy]

Here is a pic of what appears to be corrosion, maybe. I don't have anything to remove it with at the moment. What do you guys think?It's under the word dovo on the blade.

[Seraphim]

I can't see what you're talking about, but a Q-tip with some polish should help.
Be very careful, however, as polish will take off gold wash in a heartbeat.

[merkurguy]

Its the dull spot under the word dovo. It is not much but it is upsetting considering it is a new razor.

[Seraphim]

A new razor is only new when you buy it.

Once you use it it becomes succeptible to stains, tarnish and rust. It is the nature of high carbon steel.

I would heartily recommend Dovo stainless razors if high carbon makes you nutz. I don't so much care for shave feel of the Friodurs, although they are stainless as well.

The drawback to stainless is that there are only a very few models to choose from. From Dovo, there are essentially two models a 5/8 (with like 6 choices of scale materials at various price points) or a 6/8 Renaissance.

I really like my stainless. I also love my high carbon razors. But they make me crazy trying to keep them "perfect".:001_huh:

Actually, I have only one stainless at the moment and 5 stainmore (high carbon) razors.

[Thebigspendur]

Corrosion is an advanced state of rust. Rust usually starts as small red or black spots on the blade. If you have a dull area on the blade it ain't either of those. Maybe some soap residue or the polish on the razor is dulling. Nothing shows up on the photo.

So two days now in the water and the water has turned red and is opaque and the blade is totally covered in rust. When you run your hand over the blade its thick with rust and there appears to be tiny flecks of metal in the water but the blade is still smooth with no corrosion present.

[merkurguy]

I get that way with a new car too. Eventually the newness wears off(no pun intended).

[Seraphim]

cor·ro·sion Audio Help (kə-rō'zhən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. a.The act or process of corroding.
b.The condition produced by corroding.
2. A substance, such as rust, formed by corroding.

Corrosion=rust, rust=corrosion, no?

Pitting may be a different matter and that will take some time, but rust is corrosion.

I put a Tuckmar that wasn't quite shaving as well as it should:tongue_sm into a bucket of water myself to conduct a little experiment...

I will keep you posted on the progress...

[Seraphim]

And I do agree with Bigspendur, that may simply be soap scum on the blade.

[merkurguy]

Corrosion is an advanced state of rust. Rust usually starts as small red or black spots on the blade. If you have a dull area on the blade it ain't either of those. Maybe some soap residue or the polish on the razor is dulling. Nothing shows up on the photo.

So two days now in the water and the water has turned red and is opaque and the blade is totally covered in rust. When you run your hand over the blade its thick with rust and there appears to be tiny flecks of metal in the water but the blade is still smooth with no corrosion present.

There is a polish on the razor itself? Maybe that is it then. Because it looks dull and on the back side there is some of this dulling along the edge. It is almost like the shaing gel I was using dulled the finish somehow. Because it is in the outline of what I usually see when I am shaving. The outline of the suds that is.

[Seraphim]

Corrosion=rust, rust=corrosion, no?

Pitting may be a different matter and that will take some time, but rust is corrosion.

I put a Tuckmar that wasn't quite shaving as well as it should:tongue_sm into a bucket of water myself to conduct a little experiment...

I will keep you posted on the progress...

My experiment continues here (http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/forge/25408-sacrificial-anode.html#post250373)...

Sacrificial anodes and other such goodies...

[Thebigspendur]

Well attached is the razor after three days in the water. A fine coating of rust over the blade but no pitting of any kind. As a matter of fact you can scrape the rust off with your fingernail to expose shiny metal underneath.

[Thebigspendur]

Now this brings up an interesting discussion re rust vs corrosion. Not unlike the discussion of what is a custom razor.

Rust is a physical and chemical process where ferrous metals basically turn into FeO. When we say something is rusting we mean this is what is going on. When we say something is corroding exactly what does that mean? It is not a physical-chemical process like rusting in a technical sense. Like the custom razor argument corroding is kind of what you think it means. It may mean the same to you as rusting or it may be a different name for the same process or it may mean a variation. To me its an advanced state of rust where you begin to get so much rust that it actually eats into the metal and starts to really consume it rather than just have a light oxide coating which to an extent protects the metal underneath though iron oxide is rather poor at it when compared to say silver tarnish or titanium oxide or platinum tarnish.

Rust can be easily removed. Corrosion can't. Thats the defining difference to me.

As far as sacrificial metals go thats old hat. Ask anyone who lives in the Southwest and uses an evaporative cooler to cool the house in the summer. The hard water builds up in the tank and is very corrosive so we put a metal anode in the water and attach it to the chassis and rather than eat up the metal chassis the anode is eaten up. A typical anode is about 4 inches long and about an inch thick of solid metal and after one season submerged in the tank it's completely gone like vanished. Now thats corrosion.

Also remember that acids can corrode and many other chemicals can do the same and that has nothing to do with rust-think the semi-trailers with those signs on them warning corrosives.

[Seraphim]

Sacrificial anodes may be old hat, but can we apply that idea to straight razor rust prevention?

[merkurguy]

Now this brings up an interesting discussion re rust vs corrosion. Not unlike the discussion of what is a custom razor.

Rust is a physical and chemical process where ferrous metals basically turn into FeO. When we say something is rusting we mean this is what is going on. When we say something is corroding exactly what does that mean? It is not a physical-chemical process like rusting in a technical sense. Like the custom razor argument corroding is kind of what you think it means. It may mean the same to you as rusting or it may be a different name for the same process or it may mean a variation. To me its an advanced state of rust where you begin to get so much rust that it actually eats into the metal and starts to really consume it rather than just have a light oxide coating which to an extent protects the metal underneath though iron oxide is rather poor at it when compared to say silver tarnish or titanium oxide or platinum tarnish.

Rust can be easily removed. Corrosion can't. Thats the defining difference to me.

As far as sacrificial metals go thats old hat. Ask anyone who lives in the Southwest and uses an evaporative cooler to cool the house in the summer. The hard water builds up in the tank and is very corrosive so we put a metal anode in the water and attach it to the chassis and rather than eat up the metal chassis the anode is eaten up. A typical anode is about 4 inches long and about an inch thick of solid metal and after one season submerged in the tank it's completely gone like vanished. Now thats corrosion.

Also remember that acids can corrode and many other chemicals can do the same and that has nothing to do with rust-think the semi-trailers with those signs on them warning corrosives.

Like an anode for an outboard motor. It will corrode before your outboard section does.

[Bacchus]

Rust is the source, corrosion is the act. When iron oxidizes it is corroding into the base metal, no matter how slowly. Any bit of rust is eating away at your razor, it just happens to be a very small layer of metal on the razor that is being changed :lol:

[Thebigspendur]

Sacrificial anodes may be old hat, but can we apply that idea to straight razor rust prevention?

The problem is you would need to submerge the razor in water for the anode to work. Its easier to just put a light coat of oil on the blade to protect it.

[Seraphim]

The problem is you would need to submerge the razor in water for the anode to work. Its easier to just put a light coat of oil on the blade to protect it.

Yup.

But is was worth a shot, eh?

[Lucius]

There is a polish on the razor itself? Maybe that is it then. Because it looks dull and on the back side there is some of this dulling along the edge. It is almost like the shaing gel I was using dulled the finish somehow. Because it is in the outline of what I usually see when I am shaving. The outline of the suds that is.

Agreed that it's probably soap scum. Sometimes creams can be hard to wash off and a little bit just ends up drying on the blade.

[Thebigspendur]

And finally to the rust=corrosion issue and think we were all probably barking up the wrong tree.

Rust as a term is germane to ferrous metals only so for those materials I don't think its proper to even use the term corrosion. Its rust and rusting. For every other material be it copper or brass or tin or titanium corrosion applies. Those items don't "rust".

[Bruce]

Yup,

Rust is what we call corrosion of steel. Verdigris is corrosion of copper and arthritis is corrosion of the joints.:001_huh:

[Bacchus]

Rust is just Iron Oxide, rusting is the act of creating rust, and corroding is what its doing :wink:

[Bruce]

Just as I thought, corrosion is a happening thing.:cool:

[Doublefelix]

I have the same razor that did the same thing within 2 weeks. Dark spots. They never have gotten any worse, it seem just to be a discoloration and not corrosion. I am going to Polish the back side to see if it takes care of the problem.

[Hutch]

Being a Metallurgist by trade, rust is corrosion. What you describe is pitting which is caused by corrosion (corrosion is the proper term) other metals also oxidize, rust (iron oxide FeO2) is only related to iron compounds.

Human joints don't corrode they erode which is a physical process of breaking down a material as opposed to a chemical process. Arthritis is inflammation of joint tissue.

[denmason]

Silvanos, try this. I don't get my razors wet. I use a small hand towel to wipe my blade on to remove soap and whiskers placed in a convenient spot on my counter top. I never dip the razor into water, the only thing that gets on it is soap and whiskers. After shaving I wipe it clean on the hand towel and then on another towel and strop. If you have to get your razor wet for some reason, wipe the blade and scales. Blow through the scales from the backside to avoid the edge. Make sure everything is dry and leave it open for awhile to thoroughly air dry before closing it.

[silvanos]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I've been keeping the blade extra dry, making sure the spines are dry before I close it, and storing it in it's DOVO box so that it's protected from the steam of the shower. Seems to be working, the blade has degraded no further.

[riooso]

I oil by blade after every shave, period! I have tried the usual dry it and wipe it and dry it routine and the only sure way is to wipe it with oil after you at least blow between the scales to get rid of the excess water. I use Corrosion-X on toilet paper and wipe the blade just because it is what I have at hand. It is a very good anti-corrosion oil and food safe. There are other things that you can invest in and it will cost very little over the long haul but if you use nothing you will, one day, see the dreaded "BLACK SPOT" OMG! I can not believe it, this is crap, this is...... what I got because I did not put oil on it! :mad2:

Take Care,
Richard