A note of interest regarding Floris shaving soap performance

[murchmb]

Copied from a thread at SMF:

Dear Buzz

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

We have been reading the reports on our No 89 shaving soap with great interest and are very concerned that full lathering seems to be a problem.

We have tested the shaving soap after production as a matter of course in Devon where we manufacture and also in London where we have our offices and shop. These tests were very positive and users reported that the lathering seemed very acceptable. It is certainly the case that shaving soap performs less well in high calcium and magnesium content water but general UK water supplies do not seem to cause a problem with lathering of this soap.

However, when we have dissatisfied users of our products we obviously need to find the cause of any complaint and we are researching the base to see if any raw material may be causing the problem. We did change from Tallow Base to Vegetable Base some 7 years ago but actually found the lathering performance of the Vegetable Oil base to be superior to Tallow and our change of base was really driven by a customer demand for less animal derivatives in toiletry products.

Recently there has been a difficulty in obtaining good quality Palm Oils from sustainable sources as much demand for this raw material has arisen due to the move towards increased development and use of Bio Fuels. We are therefore concentrating our research on this raw material to find if the performance of the soap may have been altered due to this oil not performing as it has done in the past.

Our research continues and we are grateful for such thorough input from users of our shaving soap.

Kind Regards, Lucy

Lucy Marsh
Floris Mail Order

E: [email protected]
W: www.florislondon.com

[Phog Allen]

Well Mike, to me this validates what I have thought for some time; tallow or vegetable matters not. It is the quality of ingredients and the formula that contains them. As the kind lady from Floris alluded to, getting high QUALITY palm oil may be the problem. To me, this is one more derivative of silliness concerning the use of animal products. Before anyone gets all upset, hear me out. Animals are a renewable, legitimate source of food and and byproducts. For CENTURIES people used beef tallow, porcine fat(lard), and sheep tallow for making soaps and toiletries along with the major use, cooking. When the change to palm from tallow started, the companies had a sort of win/win. They appeased the fears of those who are opposed to animal byproducts and in some instances, the palm oil was cheaper to obtain. Now it is quite literally screwed up. As she hinted, the biofuel craze has had a huge effect on prices and availability. It doesn't take long to figure out there is a better profit by selling the best grade to the fuel industry rather than the toiletry market. Couple this with a general price increase across the board for all veg oils and you can figure out what is likely going to happen to shave soaps. Maybe, just maybe this will drive the market toward tallow based toiletries again. I wouldn't mind it at all. The major players all knew just exactly how those tallow soaps should be formulated.

Regards, Todd

[boboakalfb]

Good points, Todd. I believe you are correct.

[Suzuki]

The think I find interesting is that the response used the term "lathering performance" instead of shaving performance...

All I know is that I like products with tallow better than the all-veggie hard soaps - just find them to provide a slicker lather.

The all-veggie reformulations lather fine, they just don't provide (to me) as good a shave.

I do find this funny as it may now be more environmentally friendly to use tallow!!!

[murchmb]

I do find this funny as it may now be more environmentally friendly to use tallow!!!

I believe it has always been more environmentally friendly, but not PC. Tallow is pretty much a by-product of the beef industry. On the flip side, palm oil is sought out, quite aggressively, for what it is and that demand is contributing to deforestation in a big way. Floris, Trumper's, et. al, bring back the beef fat and save a tree!

[copperhead]

Mike, thanks for posting this info here on B&B. A very interesting read.

Chris - " I do find this funny as it may now be more environmentally friendly to use tallow!!!"

+1

[guenron]

Very interesting... Aside from all of the tallow lament, I too have found the Nr. 89 shaving soap to not lather as profusely nor as well as the Elite or JF soaps I have in the locker.. But I do like the fragrance..:tongue_sm

[Doc4]

Of course, this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of an overall decline in the quality of shave soaps ... as the top-end ingredients needed for good soaps become too expensive. It'd be great for the producers to switch back to tallow, but I'm not holding my breath ... far too un-PC to "torture innocent animals for a slightly better shave" (forget that it's an otherwise discarded byproduct).

Well, since I now estimate the duration of my soap/cream supplies in decades :eek: I won't panic just yet. :lol: