Is Increased Mpg Possible With This??

[Sue]

Has anyone tried this? My best friend just heard about it and asked if I knew anything about it. She told me her Trainer at the Gym put one on his Suburu and is now getting 60 or so mpg. I'd buy the kit for each of my kids if this is true. These websites have more info but I'm unsure if they are trustworthy.
Sue

http://increasegasmilage71.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/increase-gas-milage-and-run-your-car-on-water/

http://www.squidoo.com/aquagenforgas

[dpm802]

Has anyone tried this? My best friend just heard about it and asked if I knew anything about it. She told me her Trainer at the Gym put one on his Suburu and is now getting 60 or so mpg. I'd buy the kit for each of my kids if this is true. These websites have more info but I'm unsure if they are trustworthy.
Sue

http://increasegasmilage71.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/increase-gas-milage-and-run-your-car-on-water/

http://www.squidoo.com/aquagenforgas

It looks interesting ... I'm getting mileage in the high-20s on my '99 Saturn, but if I could bump that into the 60 range, it would be sweeeeeet!

Under no circumstances should you put this on a car that's still under warranty, for obvious reasons.

If you have any doubts about whether it works, and whether its safe ... you could buy a junker for a couple hundred dollars, put the kit on that, and track the results. That will let you know if you want to proceed on your other vehicles.

Keep us informed.

[AaronX]

yeah my inner cynic says it's on par with mpgcaps... and I'll let someone else spend their money on it.

[greenerock]

I wouldn't believe it for a second. It's another company or person trying to earn a quick buck off the high price of gas, almost like the diet industry trying to get rich by taking advantage of all the overweight people.

[Aevum]

theres scam after scam for milage and gas substitues out there, i suggest you look in to hypermiling, it will give you better milage but it requires dicipline,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiler

[AACJ]

Those hypermilers need their own dang lane.

[riooso]

NO! The promise to double your gas mileage. It's a ripoff, plain and simple.


Save your hard earned cash,
Richard

[King of Kailua]

If those water/gas devices were as good and safe for your vehicle engine as are claimed, auto engineers and manufacturers would have incorporated a form of this device or utilized the technology in their cars by now.

Get some quantifiable information! How much hydrogen can one generate from 12 volts and a mason jar of water? I don't think very much. Ask a chemist to do an experiment and determine the amount. Add that volume amount of hydrogen gas, if any, to an oxygen/fuel mixture volume utilized by a running car and then estimate the resultant increase in potential combustibility of the fuel mixture.

Also, I can't imagine that altering the fuel mixture of a vehicle like this will not have an offsetting effect, most likely detrimental, on the ability of the vehicle's computer, which is specifically designed for each vehicle to regulate the fuel flow to the fuel injectors for maximum fuel usage efficiency, based on a number of factors: recommended fuel for the vehicle, engine load, oxygen/fuel mixture input level, engine and exhaust temperatures, and other factors, to be able effectively, to compensate for the change in the fuel's hydrogen content mixture.

I think these are overrated products and guys like this are making money selling books and an overrated product.

[Sue]

I should have talked to my sons prior to posting this. They both said the Suburu will be ruined soon. Well, it was a good dream while it lasted.
Sue

[castlecraver]

There are some exciting fuel cell technologies in the pipeline, but alas, going through the process that's recently gained popularity on the internet is unlikely to provide a benefit, and will seriously harm your engine over time. If any increased mileage is achieved, its most likely due to the tinkering with the O2 sensor required (ostensibly because of the extra O2 produced by hydrolysis) results in the engine running much leaner than normal.

There's no way to get free energy. You'd be better off burning the gas to power your engine rather than liberate hydrogen from water and subsequently burning that, and I'm afraid even the flashiest, most convincing website can't overcome basic thermodynamics.

[BroJohn]

Sue --

During the first oil embargo of '73, all these snake-oil salesmen were touting a magical breakthrough, and offering modification kits for a 80mpg carburetor. When the oil supply eased up, these magical carburetors vanished. The s-o salesmen claimed it to be suppressed by the evil oil companies in connivance with the big, wicked, automotives.

These con men returned during the oil price run-up in '80~'81, when, of course, they resurrected these suppressed, magical, high-mileage carburetors and other similar contrivances. They didn't work. They don't work. Only the gullible got snookered by these shady characters.

The automobile companies would fiercely compete to add this technology to their product lines and retrofit existing vehicles. It would be worth $$$ billions to them.

Ultimately, the motor companies will further refine their offerings and embrace new technologies and alternative fuels. This will take time, but will come. These rip-off artists, with their rubber tubing, mason jars, and a couple of electrical connections will again vanish, only to sell pagers or whatever.

-- John Gehman

[comfortablynumb]

Unfortunately everything claiming to boost your MPG are usually scams.

The best thing you can do for MPG is to check the air pressure in your tires, and make sure there not excessively worn. Other then that just general upkeep, change air filters, fuel filters, PCV valves, spark plugs etc. at regular interval.

[htownmmm]

If this were true, wouldn't the auto manufacturers buy the rights to this and then add them to their SUVs so people would continue to buy the vehicles they make the most money on?

You have served the collective well by bringing this up-forewarned is forearmed!



marty

[TimmyBoston]

Sorry Sue, but this is definitely a scam.

[vcardona]

If you have any doubts about whether it works, and whether its safe ... you could buy a junker for a couple hundred dollars, put the kit on that, and track the results. That will let you know if you want to proceed on your other vehicles.

Keep us informed.

That is what the guy on Car Talk recommended when someone called in asking about it.

[castlecraver]

That is what the guy on Car Talk recommended when someone called in asking about it.

I think I remember the Mythbusters show actually did that, and they had considerable trouble even getting the car to start.

[vcardona]

You forgot a few things. You can also increase your MPG if you drive the speed limit, avoid jack rabbit starts and hard braking, and combine small trips.

[jss]

As long as we're buying someone is selling..

[Sue]

I think I qualify for the Barnum & Bailey saying that ends with...."one born every minute" but I'm old enough to know better. :redface: Sue

[comfortablynumb]

I think I qualify for the Barnum & Bailey saying that ends with...."one born every minute" but I'm old enough to know better. :redface: Sue

I wouldn't quit say that, these companies have really good marketing, and good at shuffling words around. With today's gas prices everyone is looking to do there part in reducing gas use and looking for ways to increase there millage.

[DunEdinRanger]

Unfortunately everything claiming to boost your MPG are usually scams.

The best thing you can do for MPG is to check the air pressure in your tires, and make sure there not excessively worn. Other then that just general upkeep, change air filters, fuel filters, PCV valves, spark plugs etc. at regular interval.

I would add - Drive a like subway train engineer. When you see red lights ahead, slow down by easing up on the accelerator. You waste more gas coming to a complete stop and then starting again than by gently slowing down and getting to the light as it changes. Even if it doesn't, you've saved on brakes.

[paydepst]

Whatever happened to the Pogue carburetor?

This technology has been around for a long time and I believe the oil companies HAVE suppressed it along with a few other viable technologies. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I really wouldn't put it past these monolithic business interests and of course the Whores on the Hill aka Congress will go along with whatever they are paying for.

Regarding the Pogue carburetor though I have a story I can relate that was told to me by a former coworker and I have no reason to doubt it.

Back in the fifties his father bought a new car (I don't recall the marque but I want to say Studebaker) and drove it home. After several days of regular driving he noticed the fuel gauge has hardly moved. It didn't concern him too much but after a week and a half and the needle had only shifted a fraction of an inch he began to get concerned--the tank couldn't be that big surely. He managed to confirm that the fuel gauge was reading correctly though and about three weeks after the purchase date the dealer called and asked how he liked the car. Of course he loved it and he gushed about the great mileage he was getting. They listened to his account of how far the needle had travelled during the past three weeks and told him they were glad that he was happy with the vehicle and rang off.

A few days later he got a call from the owner of the dealership asking that he return the car to the lot and in exchange he could have any automobile they had in stock regardless of the price. My friend's father was a bit puzzled and understandably reluctant to bring the car back. The owner informed him that the car he had taken possession of was an experimental model not intended for resale to the general public and that it was not supposed to have been offloaded with the general inventory the day it arrived. His acquisition was accidental and the sale had taken place apparently while the owner was away.

The story always fascinated me and I just thought I would pass it along.

[Mr. Gillette]

It's not unlike a good many products that have made it to the market...water injection is one of them; not the same as this system, but it surfaces now and then, and it's as old as the 1928 John Deere Model D...water vapor inducted into the Intake Manifold.

Even "reputable" companies run this kind of thing. One of my favorites are products that claim to fix and seal bad rings and bearings, and oil leaks. There's this common language they have. "Add to crankcase. Drive car for several hundred miles. Leaks will seal. If leaks do not seal, you mechanical repairs may be needed."

WOW! Do you think? Your car is leaking oil on a driveway...it has 260,000 miles, a bad rear oil seal and a $4.00 bottle of this stuff can't help it, so now you have to take it to a mechanic?!! Go figure.

Back in the 70's, J.C. Whitney and others had special intake inserts that would "break up the fuel molecules" for 30% better mileage. Yeah. Ummm-humm...

[ancora imparo]

Bottom line: If it's too good to be true, it probably is.

[ouch]

Conservation of energy is perhaps the firmest pillar of science.

You don't get nuthin' for nuthin'.

[Mr. Gillette]

Conservation of energy is perhaps the firmest pillar of science.

You don't get nuthin' for nuthin'.

Tell that to Capt'n Kirk!!!!

[castlecraver]

Conservation of energy is perhaps the firmest pillar of science.

You don't get nuthin' for nuthin'.

Uuugh... you tell me this after I bought shares in Steorn. :mad2:

[zlinedavid]

Whatever happened to the Pogue carburetor?



http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

Urban legend.


This technology has been around for a long time and I believe the oil companies HAVE suppressed it


No need to suppress it now; there hasn't been a mass produced vehicle with a carburetor since the early 1990s. (The 1990 Cadillac Brougham used a carbureted 307CI V8; there may have been a 1991 Isuzu model that was carbureted, but the model escapes me. Either way, 80% of the cars on the road today are powered by some type of electronic fuel injection, rather than carburation; there wouldn't be an application for this mythical fuel saver, even if it did exist.

[TimmyBoston]

I think I remember the Mythbusters show actually did that, and they had considerable trouble even getting the car to start.

You are correct sir.

[arcman]

For these things, I'm pretty sure the energy used (and expense required) to resupply your car with the electrocatalyst needed to convert water into hydrogen, you're well into the red so far as cost and energy conservation. You're not really running the car on water, the water is just reacting with the catalyst (usually some sort of hydride) to output hydrogen. The hydride is the fuel, and I don't believe those are particularly inexpensive, nor environmentally friendly.

[burnwood]

Unfortunately everything claiming to boost your MPG are usually scams.

The best thing you can do for MPG is to check the air pressure in your tires, and make sure there not excessively worn. Other then that just general upkeep, change air filters, fuel filters, PCV valves, spark plugs etc. at regular interval.


You forgot a few things. You can also increase your MPG if you drive the speed limit, avoid jack rabbit starts and hard braking, and combine small trips.

and that is how it is done.

[paydepst]

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

Urban legend.



No need to suppress it now; there hasn't been a mass produced vehicle with a carburetor since the early 1990s. (The 1990 Cadillac Brougham used a carbureted 307CI V8; there may have been a 1991 Isuzu model that was carbureted, but the model escapes me. Either way, 80% of the cars on the road today are powered by some type of electronic fuel injection, rather than carburation; there wouldn't be an application for this mythical fuel saver, even if it did exist.

Snopes isn't the "end all-be all" authority on the internet for me--sorry. I'm sure it's possible for them to get a few things wrong as hard as that may be to believe.

When I was referring to suppressed technologies I wasn't only referring to carbureted ones it just happened to be the one I cited.

[pastafarian]

I would agree that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Having said that I did hear an interesting story about water being used to make engines more efficient (I heard it on a podcast from the New England Skeptical Society). I know what you may be thinking given the first thing I said about being skeptical, but I can give a full explanation.

Ok, most of you will probably know roughly how an engine works, but bear with me please. An engine produces movement by burning fuel, but this also releases huge amounts of heat (heat in this case is wasted energy).

However, an engine's design can be modified so that instead of the normal four strokes when fuel is burnt it goes through six. This is achieved by injecting water into the piston after the fourth stroke and the piston is so hot it instantly vapourizes the water creates enough pressure for two more strokes.

From what I heard this method was so efficient at reclaiming the wasted energy that when the engine was running you could rest your hand on it. This sounds like an interesting idea as it is essentially a hybrid of an internal combustion engine and a steam engine.

EDIT: I would just like to stress that this would require an engine built for this, so do not try it at home! (I know it's obvious, but I don't want to get sued!)

EDIT2: Some references:
wikipedia article on crower six stroke engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crower_six_stroke)
autoweek magazine article (http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE)
patent details (http://www.freshpatents.com/Method-and-apparatus-for-operating-an-internal-combustion-engine-dt20070201ptan20070022977.php?type=description)

[comfortablynumb]

EDIT: I would just like to stress that this would require an engine built for this, so do not try it at home! (I know it's obvious, but I don't want to get sued!)

Definitely would require a engine designed for it, I to this day remember just how awesome my old car, 1986 Buick Regal, ran when it got water in the tank from a crappy gas station :lol: I almost had to drop the tank, but it eventually ran out.

[yardpup01]

Electrolysis takes a lot of energy, if it was viable we'd already have a cheap plentiful source of hydrogen and run everything on it.

[soapbox]

Electrolysis takes a lot of energy, if it was viable we'd already have a cheap plentiful source of hydrogen and run everything on it.

IMHO, the promise of electrolysis is that you can store energy from intermittent sources (wind, tides, what have you) more efficiently than a battery, if you can efficiently generate the electricity to break up the water molecules (and have a fuel cell readily available, of course).

[_JP_]

Oh crap, they show this:


http://water4gas.com/images/as-seen-on-tv.png



Run away!!!

[Ltltony]

I think I remember the Mythbusters show actually did that, and they had considerable trouble even getting the car to start.

+1

Sorry Sue.

[Ltltony]

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp
Urban legend.


I have to send out a snopes link about once a month because of some silly forwarded nonsense.

[comfortablynumb]

Oh crap, they show this:


http://water4gas.com/images/as-seen-on-tv.png


Run away!!!



But if you act now well include our amazing trash to fuel converter as well....And wait that's not all, if you act in the next 15 minutes well even throw in these amazing Guinsu knives, that slice and dice through it all. (just pay processing and handling) :lol:

[vcardona]

The suppressed technology stories have two problems. First, there tends to be no credible documentary evidence of the claims made in the stories. Even the stories themselves are complete hearsay. The second problem is that the stories are not plausible either. Assuming these technologies exist and that the companies involved really do want to suppress them. Then it would seem that they would take greater care to ensure that the technologies never saw the light of day. They would not build prototypes that would then accidentally get released. Instead they would buy the patents, and then never do anything with them.

[castlecraver]

The suppressed technology stories have two problems. First, there tends to be no credible documentary evidence of the claims made in the stories. Even the stories themselves are complete hearsay. The second problem is that the stories are not plausible either. Assuming these technologies exist and that the companies involved really do want to suppress them. Then it would seem that they would take greater care to ensure that the technologies never saw the light of day. They would not build prototypes that would then accidentally get released. Instead they would buy the patents, and then never do anything with them.

The bigger problems with stories like this is that they result in the masses becoming unnecessarily wary of legitimate advances in high-fuel-efficiency vehicles by virtue of being scammed or simply recognizing some shared terminology, or cause those people who were smart enough to realize its a scam but who're predisposed to a conspiracy theory mentality to assume that most legit HFE technologies are pointless and will never make it to market.

[burnwood]

But if you act now well include our amazing trash to fuel converter as well....And wait that's not all, if you act in the next 15 minutes well even throw in these amazing Guinsu knives, that slice and dice through it all. (just pay processing and handling) :lol:

I am so in. Do you have a number I could call?

[David P]

I believe this technology is viable, just not yet. A buddy (heavy line mechanic for Chevy) and I played around with it years ago. It takes so much amperage to get bubbles its ridiculous. We were able to port the gas into a vacuum port on the carb (I think we played with a 71 eldorado with a 500ci motor) and noticed nothing. It was a shame becuase with a 500ci motor, that sucker went through the fuel. So funny and timely, my neighbor (who IS a conspiracy theorist) saw a bunch of videos on Youtube (and if its on the net, it must be true) of this guy who has packaged a whole deal for $1000 including a wireless computer that does not alter the fuel or emissions of your car because that would be illegal, but it teaches your computer how to run its program !?!?! part of the kit is a fuel line heater (hmm vapor lock and preignition anyone?) but wait there's more! the fuel line heater has magnets in it to ionize the gas making burn even MORE efficiently. I thought fuel magnets had been debunked 20 years ago. Whats really funny is they're trying to sell a catalytic converter that works before the fuel is burned. They then admit that they haven't gotten a unit to work yet, and probably wont until emission laws change so they can try their idea...

I wish it would work, but it doesn't...yet

[homebrewer]

As every body else has said, it is complete bunk. No way, no how....

That being said, if your car has some type of forced induction (i.e. turbocharger, supercharger), it is possible to inject water (not "hydrogen" created in a mason jar) directly into the intake manifold and pick up some extra power. The water has a cooling effect on the incoming air, and allows you to run more boost from the turbocharger. It is great for drag racing, but again, does absolutely nothing for milage.

[Aevum]

btw, about the trash to gasoline convertor, you might say it as a joke, but in some european countries and also in some south american contries, you can convert your car to run on LPG, basicly natural gas, if you can seperate your biological garbage from your containers, and forment it, you can probobly produce some ammount of natural gas at home, the problem is the requiered compressor to inject the gas in to the LPG tank on the car, also, a single household probobly can produce a significant ammount of gas, it has to be done in a community manner or in major garbage and sewer treatment centers,

[comfortablynumb]

btw, about the trash to gasoline convertor, you might say it as a joke, but in some european countries and also in some south american contries, you can convert your car to run on LPG, basicly natural gas, if you can seperate your biological garbage from your containers, and forment it, you can probobly produce some ammount of natural gas at home, the problem is the requiered compressor to inject the gas in to the LPG tank on the car, also, a single household probobly can produce a significant ammount of gas, it has to be done in a community manner or in major garbage and sewer treatment centers,

Heh, my joke was more a reference to "Mr Fusion" from Back To The Future II :biggrin:

[Sue]

But if you act now well include our amazing trash to fuel converter as well....And wait that's not all, if you act in the next 15 minutes well even throw in these amazing Guinsu knives, that slice and dice through it all. (just pay processing and handling)


:a14:Good one! Sue

[knlgskr]

Yah sure ya betcha and they will also sell you the Golden Gate Bridge and throw in the bridge in Brooklyn if you act today without delay.

[comfortablynumb]

Yah sure ya betcha and they will also sell you the Golden Gate Bridge and throw in the bridge in Brooklyn if you act today without delay.

And if that wasn't enough, we even have ocean front property in Arizona space is limited, and this offer won't last long! Operators standing by :w00t:

[Aevum]

i´ll keep my little fishing hut in gaza city....